Unneccessary & unscientific concept of breast feeding "sisters" in the Quran
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But He gave you a brain to find out that cousins' marriage is not always desirable, and that high cholesterol is not good for your health, and that one apple a day keeps the doctor away....And above all gave you CHOICE.
Brains, unfortunately seems to be highly lacking in multiple Muslim societies to move with the times & alter unneccessary stuff-so many problems in Muslim societies result from the incapacity to use their brains. And besides, if all the problem lies in the hadiths, sticking to Quran would've solved those-then why does even the Quran forget to mention this vitally important stuff?
There are so many troubles in Muslim soceties like Saudi, Pak, etc, repeated cousin marriages have destroyed whatever brains these Muslims might've possessed it seems! laugh
These marriages are not prohibited because they result in health problems...surely if everyone marries their step mother or daughter-in-law, no such trouble will arise. It's because of the special relation between those people, and God knows marriage may destroy it.
These "milk siblings" often are completely unknown to each other, forget any special relationship(people mostly know their step moms & daughters in law), they don't even have any relationship. Like in these cases of Saudi milk siblings marriages & forced divorces based on meaningless rules
http//www.liveleak.com/view?i=c15_1237750181&c=1
Besides, far more than such unknown "milk siblings" sharing special relationships which may be destroyed by marriage,first cousins, uncle-aunt & niece etc share very special relatiobnships at times, which have a great chance of being destroyed by marriage.
I can speak from first hand experience in Iran, our birthrate currently is pretty low, only 1.71 children per woman. Many are only kids, or have just one sibling.
First cousins are like brothers & sisters for many.
So, unlike unknown milk siblings, a first cousin whom one has actually grown up with is very much like a brother(or sister)-until parents subtly pressurize them to marry. This destroys many a beautiful relationship & while its possible to feel erotic towards a milk sister you've almost never interacted with before marriage, its difficult to feel so towards a first cousin who's been like a real sister for decades.
And above all gave you CHOICE
Well, firstly as I said, in societies with millennia of repeated first cousin marriages like Saudi, Yemen etc,brains are likely to get so retarded that one can't even manage to think enough to figure out whats' healthy & whats' unhealthy. Thats' why Saudi, with all its oil, has lower % of literates that Buddhist Thailand & Christian Philippines, two poor, oil less nations.
Also, most importantly, choices aren't as simple as all that. With supposedly the Creator of our Universe banning marriages with all sorts of women from milk sisters one has never met etc, but forgetting to ban cousin marriages, & Muhammad marrying his daughter Ali to cousin Ftima,parents searching for a prospective match for their child\ren often feel that a first cousin is the best & safest choice as that family is well known to them & would be more "safe" than marrying their kid off into an unknown family.
Of course, the fact that Muslims believe that the Quran is such a scientific book, & it bans marriage to unknown milk sisters doesn't exactly help matters.
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peace
How about the Guy's who suck their wives so and so, does it mean they break their marriege vows ?
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peace
How about the Guy's who suck their wives so and so, does it mean they break their marriege vows ?
Brilliant!
Guys might suck their wife's so & so while she's a lactating mom, breastfeeding their 3 month old baby, so their own baby & they've had some of the same milk, so Daddy & daughter become brother & sister? ;D
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peace
How about the Guy's who suck their wives so and so, does it mean they break their marriege vows ?
estaghfirullah, thats haram to suckle your wife while she is lactating.
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Where has Allah suggested or instructed that you should marry cousins only? All women/men other than those specifically prohibited are available to each man and woman to marry.
"An apple a day keeps doctor away" is for such people of Europe and America who consume wine etc at night. For those in Pakistan who do not take wine or liquor in the night and take an apple early in the morning eventually go to the doctor, apple further lowers the blood pressure which is already low at awekening, and enhances the pain if somebody is already having any sort of pain in the body.
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Brains, unfortunately seems to be highly lacking in multiple Muslim societies
I am talking about your brain.
What's your role? Instead of going from bad to worse in traditional Islam and filling your "brain" with baseless stories, why don't you study Arabic and search in the qur'aan for yourself? Or take the easier route and just drop it.Laws are for the general public. Laws do have loopholes if we try to apply it to everyone without taking other considerations into account.
No one is forcing you to marry a cousin as Mazhar says. As for the court decision to separate this couple, I think the answer was in the same verse "except what has already taken place", provided that they did not know their relationship.
Muslim societies are not any example of islam being applied, specially Iran, Pakistan or Saudi Arabia. In my country we do not have "forced" cousins marriage, and it's definitely not the first choice. It's traditions, just as you think that tradition is part of islam. -
Brilliant! D
Guys might suck their wife's so & so while she's a lactating mom, breastfeeding their 3 month old baby, so their own baby & they've had some of the same milk, so Daddy & daughter become brother & sister? ;D
With respects to you Fawzia,
i do believe in ther quran that is its a good book to follow but has been grossly mistranslated
the ayah you presented
Quran 423
Forbidden for you are your mothers, and your daughters, and your sisters, and the sisters of your father, and the sisters of your mother, and the daughters of your brother, and the daughters of your sister, and YOUR FOSTER MOTHERS, AND YOUR SISTERS BY WAY OF YOUR FOSTER MOTHERS, and the mothers of your women, and your step-daughters who are in your lodgings from your women with whom you have already consummated the marriage; if you have not consummated the marriage then there is no sin upon you; and those who were in wedlock with your sons who are from your seed, and that you join between two sisters except what has already been done. God is Forgiving, Merciful.If indeed the milk or the suckling was making them our mothers and sisters then we would indeed have lots of cows and goats for mothers also - as we drink their milk.
hypno
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Quran 423
Forbidden for you are your mothers, and your daughters, and your sisters, and the sisters of your father, and the sisters of your mother, and the daughters of your brother, and the daughters of your sister, and YOUR FOSTER MOTHERS, AND YOUR SISTERS BY WAY OF YOUR FOSTER MOTHERS, and ...That does make some sense, since a foster brother or a sister is someone you grow up with, and see as a sibling, even if you aren't biologically related. Isn't that the case for most children who are adopted but their adopted parents have biological children?
I remember reading about a case where a Saudi family fostered 2 girls, who eventually wed their two biological sons. ??? It was a little creepy, even though the girls were about 10 or 11 years old and were not newborns, so they came to meet their foster siblings (and future husbands) at a later age
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That does make some sense, since a foster brother or a sister is someone you grow up with, and see as a sibling, even if you aren't biologically related. Isn't that the case for most children who are adopted but their adopted parents have biological children?
I remember reading about a case where a Saudi family fostered 2 girls, who eventually wed their two biological sons. ??? It was a little creepy, even though the girls were about 10 or 11 years old and were not newborns, so they came to meet their foster siblings (and future husbands) at a later age
suckling is a method to make someone your mahram. see
Chapter 28 SUCKLING OF A GROWN UP MAN
Book 008, Number 3424
' A'isha (Allah be pleased with her) reported that Sahla bint Suhail came to Allah's Apostle (may peace be eupon him) and said Messengerof Allah, I see on the face of Abu Hudhaifa (signs of disgust) on entering of Salim (who is an ally) into (our house), whereupon Allah's Apostle (may peace be upon him) said Suckle him. She said How can I suckle him as he is a grown-up man? Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) smiled and said I already know that he is a young man 'Amr has made this addition in his narration that he participated in the Battle of Badr and in the narration of Ibn 'Umar (the words are) Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) laughedBook 008, Number 3426
Ibn Abu Mulaika reported that al-Qasim b. Muhammad b. Abu Bakr had narrated to him that 'A'isha (Allah be pleased with her) reported that Sahla bint Suhail b. 'Amr came to Allah's Apostle (may peace be upon him) and said Messenger of Allah, Salim (the freed slave of Abu Hudhaifa) is living with us in our house, and he has attained (puberty) as men attain it and has acquired knowledge (of the sex problems) as men acquire, whereupon he said Suckle him so that he may become unlawful (in regard to marriage) for you He (Ibn Abu Mulaika) said I refrained from (narrating this hadith) for a year or so on account of fear. I then met al-Qasim and said to him You narrated to me a hadith which I did not narrate (to anyone) afterwards. He said What is that? I informed him, whereupon he said Narrate it on my authority that 'A'isha (Allah be pleased with her) had narrated that to me.Book 008, Number 3428
Zainab daughter of Abu Salama reported I heard Umm Salama, the wife of Allah's Apostle (may peace be upon himy, saying to 'A'isha By Allah, I do not like to be seen by a young boy who has passed the period of fosterage, whereupon she ('A'isha) said Why is it so? Sahla daughter of Suhail came to Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) and said Allah's Messenger, I swear by Allah that I see in the face of Abu Hudhaifa (the signs of disgust) on account of entering of Salim (in the house), whereupon Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) said Suckle him. She (Sahla bint Suhail) said He has a heard. But he (again) said Suckle him, and it would remove what is there (expression of disgust) on the face of Abu Hudhaifa. She said (I did that) and, by Allah, I did not see (any sign of disgust) on the face of Abu Hadhaifa.http//www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/fundamentals/hadithsunnah/muslim/008.smt.html
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This is about the women whom a man is prohibited to wed in the Quran. I have taken the translation from the free minds site itself
Quran 423
Forbidden for you are your mothers, and your daughters, and your sisters, and the sisters of your father, and the sisters of your mother, and the daughters of your brother, and the daughters of your sister, and your foster mothers who suckled you, and your sisters from suckling, and the mothers of your women, and your step-daughters who are in your lodgings from your women with whom you have already consummated the marriage; if you have not consummated the marriage then there is no sin upon you; and those who were in wedlock with your sons who are from your seed, and that you join between two sisters except what has already been done. God is Forgiving, Merciful.However, marrying a woman suckled by the same wet nurse has no undesirable side effects, it doesn't lead to anything undesirable. However, marrying one's first cousin(which unfortunately hasn't been prohibited at all in the Quran) is dangerous as i has a greater chance of producing kids with genetic illnesses. Milk sisters is harmless, it could've easily been allowed.
Fatima married her first cousin, Ali. Inbreeding has a higher chance of causing genetic abnormalities, especially consistent inbreeding. By allowing Fatima to marry Ali, Mohammed has made it seem perfectly fine (possibly even encouraged) first cousin marriage.
Problems in Saudi due to inbreeding-
http//query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?sec=health&res=980DE0DF1F3DF932A35756C0A9659C8B63Problems in Pakistan
http//news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programmes/newsnight/4442010.stmIt is ironic that first cousin marriages are ok yet those who have been suckled by the same person are not allowed to marry,in Saudi. This is wreaking havoc in Saudi marriages. Back when I was still Muslim, I had travelled to Saudi, & seen an unnatural number of abnormal kids in some homes.
Saudis, meanwhile are busy in forcing milk siblings to divorce, rather than doing the needful & banning cousin marriages, especially repeated cousin marriages
http//www.liveleak.com/view?i=c15_1237750181&c=1
I can't really blame the poor brainwashed folks!
As supposedly "Allah" said
Forbidden for you are ... and your sisters from suckling
Pity Allah didn't mention the ill effect of repeated cousin couples! rotfl
How do you know it doesn't have any undesired side effects??
Isn't it possible that just because it might not make sense to us that there is still wisdom behind it??
Such as breastmilk changing something in our bodies to actually making those who are breastfed by the same women closely related.http//ecochildsplay.blogspot.com/2009/09/stem-cells-discovered-in-breast-milk.html
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Where has Allah suggested or instructed that you should marry cousins only? All women/men other than those specifically prohibited are available to each man and woman to marry.
Nowhere,but as I showed, He hasn't prohibited it either.Naturally, Muslims will not shy away from such marriages as Allah prohibited all sorts of marriages but condoned those!
Also, there is Fatima & Ali's marriage as a precedent.
The reason cousin marriages happen is that, getting you son or daughter married off is often a tricky proposition for many. You are either sending your daughter into a new home, or else welcoming a stranger into your house as a daughter in law.
You aren't sure of that person's temperament, food habits etc. You aren't even sure how well you'll get along with their relatives.
With cousin marriages not being prohibited, but even milk siblings being prohibited, & with the Fatima Ali example, obviously Muslims will think marrying their child to his\her first cousin is a safer bet than marrying unrelated women\men, who's family is not known to them & who maybe badly behaved,violent etc.
Thus, it continues.
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Muslim societies are not any example of islam being applied, specially Iran, Pakistan or Saudi Arabia. In my country we do not have "forced" cousins marriage, and it's definitely not the first choice. It's traditions, just as you think that tradition is part of islam.
Dear Samia,
I do not need or want to study Arabic-it has little use in the world, thanks to Islam. I would love to study Mandarin, indeed schools in UK have many Mandarin classes, as China is a rising superpower. I would love to study Japanese, Korean etc-of course European languages like German, Frence etc-as these people contribute so much to the world by way of science, technology, knowledge etc.
One of the greatest misfortunes of oil less non Arab Muslim nations is that they had the misfortune of being influenced by Arabia millennia ago, rather than by the Christian West or Confucian China-which has produced successful societies in Europe, East Asia, Brazil etc, it was the Arabian Muslim influence which contributed to the poor state of their societies, & now they study Arabic which is useless-they might've better utilized their time studying German, Japanese, etc-that would help them get gainful employment.
I have read enough translations, including the one from Free Minds, it says milk siblings.
Of course,like many unpleasant stuff, Muslims might now like to change this, like they changed "beat" to "leave".
In my country we do not have "forced" cousins marriage, and it's definitely not the first choice.
Really? Thats' a blatant lie, as you probably are aware.
http//news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/7237663.stm
Pakistani Muslims are 13 times more likely to have genetic birth defects compared to the general population.Of course, mentioning this makes Muslims furious! ;D
A third of Pakistanis in Britain are married to their first cousins, there are multiple examples of Muslim forced marriages in Britain, cousins have been brought into Britain from Pakistan by the convinient way of mariage.
I agree that cousin marriage isn't very common in Britain as a whole, but thats due to the huge non Muslim population, which doesn't do such stuff often.
With Muslims in Britain living off welfare & having huge families,& the politically correct multi culturalism, cousin marriages will increase with the rise of the Muslim population.
Oh btw, cousin marriage isn't simply "tradition". Fatima married Ali, & the Quran, which can ban irrelevant stuff like milk siblings doesn't ban this vitally important thing.
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With respects to you Fawzia,
i do believe in ther quran that is its a good book to follow but has been grossly mistranslated
the ayah you presented
Quran 423
Forbidden for you are your mothers, and your daughters, and your sisters, and the sisters of your father, and the sisters of your mother, and the daughters of your brother, and the daughters of your sister, and YOUR FOSTER MOTHERS, AND YOUR SISTERS BY WAY OF YOUR FOSTER MOTHERS, and the mothers of your women, and your step-daughters who are in your lodgings from your women with whom you have already consummated the marriage; if you have not consummated the marriage then there is no sin upon you; and those who were in wedlock with your sons who are from your seed, and that you join between two sisters except what has already been done. God is Forgiving, Merciful.It hasn't been "grossly mistranslated" at all, its simply been translated rightly. Now Muslims, embarrasseed by the unpleasant stuff, are trying to "mistranslate" it, in an effort to salvage their faith, & trick a few new gullibles into it.
I have used the translation from the free minds site itself, which has already done some of the changing, like changing beat to "leave", however, they too stick to "milk sisters." ;D
Also, Saudi Arabia forcibly divorces such couples-surely they read the Quran in their mother tongue.
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How do you know it doesn't have any undesired side effects??
Isn't it possible that just because it might not make sense to us that there is still wisdom behind it??
Such as breastmilk changing something in our bodies to actually making those who are breastfed by the same women closely related.http//ecochildsplay.blogspot.com/2009/09/stem-cells-discovered-in-breast-milk.html
So what does stem cells prove? Don't try to divert the discussion please.
Till date, this has been seen as having no ill effect.
However, cousin marriages do have plenty of undesirable ill effects, this has been amply proved, especially repeated cousin marriages, something Muslims regularly indulge in.
If the Quran truly had wishdom, it would've banned epeated cousin marriages.
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So what does stem cells prove? Don't try to divert the discussion please.
Till date, this has been seen as having no ill effect.
However, cousin marriages do have plenty of undesirable ill effects, this has been amply proved, especially repeated cousin marriages, something Muslims regularly indulge in.
If the Quran truly had wishdom, it would've banned epeated cousin marriages.
Peace,
with all due respect, I am not trying to "divert the discussion"My point is, there may be something in breastmilk that specifically makes people who ingest it related.
Do you know everything? How do you know that's not true??I didn't say cousin marriages are good.
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My point is, there may be something in breastmilk that specifically makes people who ingest it related.
I don't think there is anything there to make people related. It is a good question that Fawzia has brought up. My question is, is it the very act of having been breastfed by the same nurse-mother, or is it a question of fostering? It seems to me that nurse-mothers at that time raised those children until they were 5 or 6 years old, but I could be completely wrong about that.
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Forbidden for you are ... and your sisters from suckling
Pity Allah didn't mention the ill effect of repeated cousin couples! rotfl
Let's see.. you start off your topic about unnecessary and unscientific concept. Who said Quran is a book of science?
Then you go on about ill effects of repeat cousin couples. so what topic do you want to discuss?
did God say it has ill effects? Did Quran say that? Did you ever think outside of the box and think of psychological effects? or did that not come into the equation?
In regards to cousin couples marriage is your free choice. i have friends and family who married cousins and they're capable full minded people.
why pick on muslims? it's easy to fault on others aint it. Einstein married his cousin, queen Victoria married her cousin, Charles Darwin married his cousin..
If people wanna marry their cousins so be it. everything in life can be seen as a harm, there are more harmful things than people marrying cousins.
Peace.
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Nowhere,but as I showed, He hasn't prohibited it either.Naturally, Muslims will not shy away from such marriages as Allah prohibited all sorts of marriages but condoned those!
Also, there is Fatima & Ali's marriage as a precedent.
The reason cousin marriages happen is that, getting you son or daughter married off is often a tricky proposition for many. You are either sending your daughter into a new home, or else welcoming a stranger into your house as a daughter in law.
You aren't sure of that person's temperament, food habits etc. You aren't even sure how well you'll get along with their relatives.
With cousin marriages not being prohibited, but even milk siblings being prohibited, & with the Fatima Ali example, obviously Muslims will think marrying their child to his\her first cousin is a safer bet than marrying unrelated women\men, who's family is not known to them & who maybe badly behaved,violent etc.
Thus, it continues.
It is but revolving around one thing. My son is married to a woman not from our family/clan and about whom we did not know anything earlier; and my daughter is married to a man not related to our family/tribe. I am married with my cousin. Couples not related to each other may also have retarded children. Should we stop marrying only because that there is some possibility of having a retarded child? Yet we are not aware of all the facts causing some problem in the child birth.