Jews not following Torah are like donkeys with Books
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I can only go on to later stuff if the earlier explanations are clarified right?
Actually, wrong. The other 2 answers are not linguistic, they are contextual so as it happens, you owe me two answers besides the bottom two answers concerning the torah aswell.
You yourself admitted
If it means, "those who Jewed" it shows a grammatically flawed sentence, so what am I to do with this grammatically flawed sentence please?
How do I proceed?
You proceed by answering why you agree with your translators why you choose to translate it to mean 'jew' when
a. the dictionaries themselves gives a host of meanings.
b. the quran ITSELF uses the word in a different way.You need to tell me why you side with these folks.
Then you disagree with 4 translators I provided, ones accepted & recognized by millions of Muslims globally.
Why should I accept your translation as any more authentic & meaningful tht 4 people combined?
Because my translation is consistent with the QURANIC usage of the word. The author of the Quran used the VERY SAME root to mean something else yet for this ayah 62/5, your translators understood 'alladhina haadoo' as 'jews'. This is quite simply to do with the constructed history where Muhammad was portrayed as an anti-semite. Now since you speak of 'genuine scholarship' , why don't you tell us why you believe in the history of ibn hisham which is a redaction of the original ibn ishaq's seerah? This is the seerah which first proposed the meaning as 'jews' and it came ONE HUNDRED AND FIFTY YEARS after Muhammad.
AND if the Quran is either grammatically flawed or incapable of being translated or even understood correctly by 4 different writers, then it isn't a very good book in the first place!
Hmm, this is coming from the person who thinks its beneath her to study Arabic! You refuse to get into the subject because of your malignant opinion of the Muslims but you don't mind choosing a side when it comes to this. Where's your personal integrity, 'Fawzia'?
Then it shouldn't claim to be a universal religion applying & trying to proselytize millions of non Arab Muslims, nor should it apply to modern Arabs who don't all follow Classical Arabic either! !
Infact, if a holy book which claims to be in "clear language" has so much confusion in the simplest translations or understandings, then it should stop making its grandoise claims! peace
LOL, if the book was confusing, it wouldn't tell us HOW to read it!
Quran We have sent it down as an Arabic Qur'an, in order that you may logically think (la3allakum ta'qiloon).
The arabic language of the Quran, with its systematic roots and derivatives uses words in such a way that, if you translate a word wrongly, it would appear awkward in other contexts. That's why, after 1400 years of Sunni accretions, we can see past the hadith-racist influenced translations and see Quran ITSELF uses the words. Of course, that requires studying the language, something beneath you.
I await my other two answers. Don't forget them, ok ? Your decency obliges you.
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Actually, wrong. The other 2 answers are not linguistic, they are contextual so as it happens, you owe me two answers besides the bottom two answers concerning the torah aswell.
You proceed by answering why you agree with your translators why you choose to translate it to mean 'jew' when
a. the dictionaries themselves gives a host of meanings.
b. the quran ITSELF uses the word in a different way.You need to tell me why you side with these folks.
Because my translation is consistent with the QURANIC usage of the word. The author of the Quran used the VERY SAME root to mean something else yet for this ayah 62/5, your translators understood 'alladhina haadoo' as 'jews'. This is quite simply to do with the constructed history where Muhammad was portrayed as an anti-semite. Now since you speak of 'genuine scholarship' , why don't you tell us why you believe in the history of ibn hisham which is a redaction of the original ibn ishaq's seerah? This is the seerah which first proposed the meaning as 'jews' and it came ONE HUNDRED AND FIFTY YEARS after Muhammad.
Hmm, this is coming from the person who thinks its beneath her to study Arabic! You refuse to get into the subject because of your malignant opinion of the Muslims but you don't mind choosing a side when it comes to this. Where's your personal integrity, 'Fawzia'?
LOL, if the book was confusing, it wouldn't tell us HOW to read it!
Quran We have sent it down as an Arabic Qur'an, in order that you may logically think (la3allakum ta'qiloon).
The arabic language of the Quran, with its systematic roots and derivatives uses words in such a way that, if you translate a word wrongly, it would appear awkward in other contexts. That's why, after 1400 years of Sunni accretions, we can see past the hadith-racist influenced translations and see Quran ITSELF uses the words. Of course, that requires studying the language, something beneath you.
I await my other two answers. Don't forget them, ok ? Your decency obliges you.
Super abdulquran! bravo
So even in so much as a single verse there's way so much linguistic & grammatical confusion. Even after abandoning all sorts of hadiths, Quran can't stand by itself as every small bit has been mis interpreted & mis translated.
Its a confusing book, but still gives instructions on "how to read," even with those elaborate instructions, there's so much confusion over every little bit & piece! ;D
Yes, I refuse to go into lengthy periods of study of Arabic, if Islam can only be interpreted like that, it should stop making its grand claims of being a universal faith!
Classical & modern Arabic differ substantially too, so extremely few people on earth are able to read the book.
Tell me, do you ask every convert to Quranist Islam to read Arabic as well, or are these accusations only levelled at the rejectors?
While all converts are welcomed with open arms, without the slightest comprehension of Arabic? ???
The Quran by your admission can be easily mistranslated.
So all the 1 billion plus Muslims on earth, to be able to follow a fulfilling & satisfying, not to mention non anti semitic & non misogynistic etc faith-will have to spend years, whatever their birthplace, boning up on classical Arabic?
Don't they have other qualifications to gather? Jobs to find? Extra curricular activities? Later marriage & children?
People need to study loads of things in life. AND, they need to live their lives. As it happens, there's so much problem of literacy & skilled workers in multiple Islamic nations, why should people devote years to bone up on a classical language which is incapable of translation? That would lead to further diverting precious time & resources from the urgent needs of the time,learning science & technology, essential job skills etc.
If Islam is a faith incapable of translation, then it should've abandoned its pretences of being a global faith right at its inception, stuck to Arabia & prevented even classical Arabic from accumulating new words & expressions! peace
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I'm not interested in your presidential inauguration speech, Fawzia. You can save it for the other inmates at your institution.
I await your answer to my explanation and my 2 counter questions.
Are you going to address them or , characteristically, do a 'Fawzia'?
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I'm not interested in your presidential inauguration speech, Fawzia. You can save it for the other inmates at your institution.
I await your answer to my explanation and my 2 counter questions.
Are you going to address them or , characteristically, do a 'Fawzia'?
Whats' the point?
What to answer about a holy book which claims to be for the world but is incapable of being understood & explained apart from its native & ancient language?
So the book isn't all that it claims to be.
If its incapable of being understood apart from years of laborious study in a difficult, archaic language-& anybody & everybody can twist its meanings into something intolerant or misogynistic, it doesn't amount to much really.
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Lol, I thought as much. I hope your hate swallows you whole, 'Fawzia.
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My word you can't teach someone logic...
AND if the Quran is either grammatically flawed or incapable of being translated or even understood correctly by 4 different writers, then it isn't a very good book in the first place!
Using your logic, If Fawzia is not capable of being 'understood' by 4 different people = Fawzia isn't a very good person.
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My word you can't teach someone logic...
Using your logic, If Fawzia is not capable of being 'understood' by 4 different people = Fawzia isn't a very good person.
If I'm incapable of being understood by 4 different people of reasonable intelligence & training when I say the very simplest stuff, I'm not a particularly eloquent person.
All the translators have years of knowledge of classical Arabic, the Quran isn't supposed to be rocket science, yet the poor book can't even make itself clear!
Sigh!* (
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Seriously, are you folks nuts? Incapable of reading?
Yes, my boyfriend has a sister, so? He also has a girlfriend that is me.
I know his siter, I have met her many times, again whats' wrong with that?
She told me that her boyfriend is a Japanese Buddhist, I have met the boyfriend too, when a bunch of our friends went out for lunch one day. My boyfriend's sister told me that she's attended Buddhist meditation sessions.
What, WTF are you imagining Mazhar? Did I write that my boyfriend, his sister, her boyfriend & me have orgies? lol!lol! lol! ;D
Nope, we are extremely decent people, we don' do such stuff, the maximum we've done is have bacon, a taboo in my ex religion & my boyfriend & his sister's religion.
I know many Muslims who've been turned stupid due to Islamic doctrines & repeated inbreeding, but I didn't realise that the situation was as bad as all that! ;D
I did not say any such thing "orgies" etc. I merely said this
Brother enjoys the company of sister with her boyfriend while having his own girlfriend by his side. Is this Reconstructionist "a movement in the United States, begun in the 1920s, emphasizing the idea that Judaism is a worldwide religious civilization and advocating continuous adaptation to contemporary conditions"
I imagine how accurately Allah knows the eventualities.
This too is a taboo in all religions; whether ex-religion or the religion owned by boyfriend & his sister and her boyfriend.
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I did not say any such thing "orgies" etc. I merely said this
I imagine how accurately Allah knows the eventualities.
This too is a taboo in all religions; whether ex-religion or the religion owned by boyfriend & his sister and her boyfriend.So this is 1732
1732 And do not come near adultery, for it is a sin and an evil path.Have we come near adultery Mazhar?
When have we done anything of that sort?
How do you assume that we'd be prone to committing adultery anymore than any devout Muslim or Haredi Jew would, or that we are fond of adultery & condone adultery?
Eating bacon & adultery are two very different things.
Atheists, agnostics & other non religious people have morals as well.
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So this is 1732
1732 And do not come near adultery, for it is a sin and an evil path.Have we come near adultery Mazhar?
When have we done anything of that sort?
How do you assume that we'd be prone to committing adultery anymore than any devout Muslim or Haredi Jew would, or that we are fond of adultery & condone adultery?
Eating bacon & adultery are two very different things.
Atheists, agnostics & other non religious people have morals as well.
I said nothing and presumed nothing about "we" of you. "Eating bacon & adultery are two very different things". Certainly they are different; from the point of "taboos" as you referred with regard to ex religion and religion of rest of the three, I quoted Qur'aan that the other thing is as good a taboo as eating bacon and can be avoided by not taking a first step towards approaching it. A taboo is a taboo so long one is willing to accept it as taboo otherwise it is a legal consideration/fear of the society one lives in.
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If I'm incapable of being understood by 4 different people of reasonable intelligence & training when I say the very simplest stuff, I'm not a particularly eloquent person.
All the translators have years of knowledge of classical Arabic, the Quran isn't supposed to be rocket science, yet the poor book can't even make itself clear!
Sigh!* (
Nice appeal to authority. So, it's the book's fault that translators have their own bias, and thus liable to make mistakes? Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. Certainly you are not claiming they are free from bias/making mistakes?
Let's employ blind faith. It's clearly what the quran recommends. )
1736 And do not uphold what you have no knowledge of. For the hearing, eyesight, and mind, all these you are responsible for.
Just admit that have an agenda to 'disprove' the quran. A book that's not even NEEDED for salvation. They call folks like you trolls, in the modern world.
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Peace Fawzia,
So would it have been preferable, imfromjakarta, had they stuck exactly to the Torah?
Would it be good to you if Jews killed their children who became apostates? Or stoned a newlywed who did not bleed on her wedding night & her husband complained? Would it be right to stone her on her father's doorstep? Or stoned every man(married or unmarried) who had sex with a married woman?
Its to the credit of Jews that they have been able to supercede such barbaric practices 2000 years ago via creative reinterpretations of Rabbis, & that Jews like Reform & Reconstructionist are constantly doing this.
Although the Torah gives the capital punishment for multiple offences, Israel has had only 2 executions all these years for massive war crimes, thanks to the reinterpretation of Jewish laws.
http//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capital_punishment_in_Israel
Jews who don't uphold the laws of the Torah are, by managing to do away with such barbarism two millennia ago, creating a more humane society,sure they follow the modern ethical principles of not stealing, not killing etc, but so do plenty of atheists & members of non Abrahamic faiths.
Or do you prefer rampant stonings of adulteresses, apostates & non bleeding newlyweds? ???
I have no knowledge about the original content of The Torah, if what you wrote in your previous post is content of Torah, and I was born as one of bani Israil, I will try my best to implement al-Qur'an as a Criterion/al-Furqaan to differentiate truth from falsehood in Torah.