Praying to Bukhari
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13 The Almighty, the Clement.
15 You alone we serve; you alone we implore for help.2212 He calls upon besides God what will not harm him and what will not benefit him. Such is the far straying.
I think if it's not shirk, then it's definitely associating partners with Allah.
"Shirk" = setting up partners/associating with God
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Peace,
He must become closer to God himself if he wants God to answer his prayers. Putting the dead man in the middle only distances him further from God. What is it about Bukhari that makes him closer to God? The fact that he's dead? Or the fact that he was righteous(according to your friend's beliefs)? If it's death that makes him closer, your friend could have went to a dead relative's grave. If it's righteousness, your friend needs to be more righteous himself, Bukhari's supposed righteousness isn't going to help him. Why is he asking the dead to pray to the Living when he could do it himself? Why create that barrier between himself and God? Does he believe that Bukhari can hear him? -
13 The Almighty, the Clement.
15 You alone we serve; you alone we implore for help.2212 He calls upon besides God what will not harm him and what will not benefit him. Such is the far straying.
"Shirk" = setting up partners/associating with God
I thought Shirk is committed when you worship someone other than God. Either way, he seemed to have committed Shirk because he made Bukhari an "intercessor" between himself and the Alimighty.
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I thought Shirk is committed when you worship someone other than God.
From PRL
Shiin-Ra-Kaf = to be a companion, be sharer/partner. shirkun - share, participation, polytheism, idolatry, making associate/partner with Allah. shariik (pl. shurakaa) - associate, partner, sharer. Nouns of the second declension when followed by the affixed pronouns take the three inflexions thus shurakaa, shurakaa'i, shurakaa'a. shaarak (vb. 3) - to share with. ashraka (vb. 4) - to make a sharer or associate, give companions (e.g. to God), be a polytheist or idolater. ashraktumuuni - you associated me as partner. mushrik - one who gives associate to God, polytheist. mushtarikun (vb. 8 ) - one who partakes or shares.
To get a clear understanding of "shirk" I recommend 2212 (as referenced earlier), 3945, 4012, 7218, among others.
4012 This is because when God alone was mentioned, you rejected, but when partners were associated with Him, you acknowledged. Therefore, the judgment is for God, the Most High, the Most Great.
3945 When God alone is mentioned, the hearts of those who do not acknowledge the Hereafter are filled with aversion; and when others are mentioned beside Him, they rejoice!
7218 The masajid (institutuions/places of submission) are for God, so do not call on anyone alongside God.
It is not only worshipping/praying to things/people; even insisting upon mentioning a name/person beside God (such as saying "la illaha illa allah wa muhammadan rasulullah" and not being content when God alone is advocated/preached, is "shirk".
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I have a quesiton. I knew a Sunni a long time ago who went to Imam Bukhari's grave and actually prayed that Bukhari make dua for his marriage. Meaning he asked Bukhari, a dead man, to pray to Allah for him and his wife.
I believe, and may Allah forgive me if I'm wrong, that this person committed Shirk by doing this.
What do you think? He justified his actions by saying that he didn't pray to Bukhari to give him anything, but simply that Bukhari should pray to Allah, since Bukhari is closer to Allah as a dead human being (according to him). He said that this was a form of intercession, and not shirk, since he doesn't "worship" Bukhari.
Any thoughts on this? I think if it's not shirk, then it's definitely associating partners with Allah.
either you ask dead bukhari for help or God, it is same. both of them won't come to help you. we've been praying since ages (during the hajj as well) now asking for help for Palestinians and Kashmiris..... lets see how it ends.... so far Israelites' God seems more powerful and helpful to them. afaik the only person that can help that guy, who is asking help for marriage etc, is himself. And God knows the best....
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I thought Shirk is committed when you worship someone other than God. Either way, he seemed to have committed Shirk because he made Bukhari an "intercessor" between himself and the Alimighty.
What is worship? Deeper, more important ideas are at play here that, upon elucidation, will simplify and clarify the analysis.
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either you ask dead bukhari for help or God, it is same. both of them won't come to help you. we've been praying since ages (during the hajj as well) now asking for help for Palestinians and Kashmiris..... lets see how it ends.... so far Israelites' God seems more powerful and helpful to them. afaik the only person that can help that guy, who is asking help for marriage etc, is himself. And God knows the best....
It's because Muslims think praying is enough(without doing the required work). Muslims are waiting for some kinds of salahudin to come to the rescue. doing the required work and praying for success is a combination I haven't seen with Muslims.
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Would that sunni condemn someone for praying to Mary or any of the catholic saints? I'm sure he would, so what is the difference? They are all dead.
Exactly.
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"They're all dead?"
2154 And do not say about those who are killed in the way of Allah , "They are dead." Rather, they are alive, but you perceive not.
3169 And never think of those who have been killed in the cause of Allah as dead. Rather, they are alive with their Lord, receiving provision,
hmm
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"They're all dead?"
2154 And do not say about those who are killed in the way of Allah , "They are dead." Rather, they are alive, but you perceive not.
3169 And never think of those who have been killed in the cause of Allah as dead. Rather, they are alive with their Lord, receiving provision,
hmm
I believe that has to do with martyrs. Bukhari wasn't a martyr.
Regardless, the verses do not say we can pray through them, or that they can intercede for us. -
I believe that has to do with martyrs. Bukhari wasn't a martyr.
Regardless, the verses do not say we can pray through them, or that they can intercede for us.and Jesus son of Mary? How do you know who's martyr and who's not?
Now, in regard to previous comments about praying through "dead" ppl, does dead-ness or life-ness matter when it comes to shirk?
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Tawassul as sunnis/shias know it is exactly that seeking a prayer through a person who is apparently "closer" to God than us.
is it shirk? well why would someone call upon the dead (or alive) to call upon God? why the intermediary?
The caller should call unto God not on others to God.
2186 (Asad) AND IF My servants ask thee about Me - behold, I am near; I respond to the call of him who calls, whenever he calls unto Me let them, then, respond unto Me, and believe in Me, so that they might follow the right way.
Where is it stated that one should call on others (mediator) to call upon God?
I think it's stupid.
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To add to what Sarah said, tawassul in the quranic sense is very different
O ye who believe! Do your duty to Allah, seek the means of approach unto Him (ibtaghoo ilaihi AL-WASEELAH) and strive with might and main in his cause that ye may prosper (5/35)
Its our mindfulness of Allah and our struggle which will bring us close to Him, not praying to some dead guy.
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Would that sunni condemn someone for praying to Mary or any of the catholic saints? I'm sure he would, so what is the difference? They are all dead.
good point. bravo