Questions about marriage with sunni muslims?
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Selam
Here you assume sunni muslims are idolaters. I don't think they are or at least they would not consider themselves as one.
Peace
Salam. I am not assuming. This is fact, the quran says it. The Quran tells us that most people will not believe in God except while setting up partners. So one of my intepretations of that verse is that most sunnies set up partners
12106 And most of them will not believe in God except while setting up partners.
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Peace hope4
From my understanding, setting up partners and idolworship are the same thing. Correct me if you think i am wrong.
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By the way, i am not here to judge anyone, i am only here to learn and understand why some people on this forum marry sunni muslims. And i am not saying that all sunni muslims (traditional muslims) are idolaters either. So maybe the members here who marries sunni muslims are marrying those of them who are most sincere in their faith. Right?
are you sure there are quran alone women in the world?
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are you sure there are quran alone women in the world?
Yes. are you sure there are quran alone women in the world?
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And what about those members here who already are married to idolaters? Should they divorce their wifes or husbands if they are idolaters?
Well I'm married to a Sunni, but my outlook on things when we married a long time ago wasn't the same as it is now.
I would say it might depend on how "die-hard" the person is with hadiths. And how they view them exactly.
For example, my husband says he doesn't put the hadith above the Qur'an but that we "need them to understand the Qur'an" (that's what he says). Even though I really don't believe he actually knows what he's saying, he's just repeating what he says.Like hope4 says, I don't think most believe they're "idolaters".
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Peace hope4
From my understanding, setting up partners and idolworship are the same thing. Correct me if you think i am wrong.
Selam David_K
I always thought there was a suttle difference, like one was openly worshiping idols and the other explicite i.e. doing it without realising or intepreting scriptures in a wrong way. I give an example Hindus have many status of gods in their temples where they go to worship, I consider this idol worship. Christians believe Jesus is the son of God, they set him up as a partner to God. Both are sins mentioned in the Quran. I could be wrong and they do mean the same thing, will have to look into it further, but I am not fully set on the idea they are different or the same at the moment so reading others opinions could only be a good thing.
I was reading these verses and was wondering if it is clear that idolworshiping and setting up partners is one of the same thing
575 The Messiah, son of Mary, is no more than a messenger; like whom
messengers have passed away; and his mother was trustworthy,
they used to eat the food. See how We clarify the signs for them,
then see how they deviate.
576 Say ?Do you serve other than God what cannot harm you or
benefit you?? God is the Hearer, the Knower.What do you think or others for that matter?
Peace
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are you sure there are quran alone women in the world?
No.
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Of course there are ... I am one of them ... and I know there are others here.
are you sure you are quran alone?
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I suggest re-thinking the traditional view of shrik.
Mushrikeen/"idolaters" are not aware they are committing shrik 622-24. Do you think quranists are exempt from this? Mushrikeen are our brothers in the deen (which is islam), as long as they uphold as-salat (contextually, their 'contracts' and bring forth betterment/evolution (zakat). They are also impure (92.
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I think the previous sign of 242 implies someone proven as such for an adulterer, thus we can apply similar thinking in that it refers to someone who is blatant/obvious mushrik. Also, since many mushrikeen do not realise they are such, it makes it more difficult for another to determine such a thing.
The concept of "shirk" is very wide, and somewhat unsettling, and is a very important subject to understand
http//www.quranicteachings.co.uk/shirk.htm -
are you sure you are quran alone?
Are you sure you aren't sunni? laugh
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Peace all
Most muslims, christians and jews are idolaters according to the quran. As we see, in the verse below, the quran tells us that marrying an idolater (sunni muslim that don't believe in god alone) is forbidden. So my questions are, which verse do members here use to justify their action when god clearly has stated that marrying idolaters is forbidden? And what about those members here who already are married to idolaters? Should they divorce their wifes or husbands if they are idolaters?
Quran, 243
The adulterer will only marry an adulteress
or one who is an idolatress. The adulteress,
she will only be married to an
adulterer or an idolater. This has been
forbidden for the acknowledgers.By the way, i am not here to judge anyone, i am only here to learn and understand why some people on this forum marry sunni muslims. And i am not saying that all sunni muslims (traditional muslims) are idolaters either. So maybe the members here who marries sunni muslims are marrying those of them who are most sincere in their faith. Right?
First lets define whats shirk according to how shirk was practiced and applied.
Polytheism v Monotheism
Polytheism believes in a metadivine realm, an existince prior to the existence of the gods(water, smoke, fire, fate etc) that the gods were under the domain of and under the decree of and under the dependence of. This is the supreme and ultimate realm and it transcends the deities who are under the laws and power of this metadivine realm. So the gods are limited, there is no absolute divine will and authority. They are not all knowing and all wise since this medadivine realm which is often mysterious and all too powerfull for the gods. The gods can also be limited by the activities of other gods, spirits or natural forces.
Polytheism relies on mytholgy, the stories of the gods. The gods have a begining where they are born and can die and even re-born. Theogony(the stories of the birth of the gods) is a common concept among paganism. Usually the metadivine realm is where the gods are born or emerge and usually this is where all life forms and natural existence came into existence.
Polytheism therefore has a fluid boundary between the divine, human and natural world since they all emerge from the same primordial(before existence) material, the metadivine realm that was in existence before everything. The gods are like exaggerated human beings. Therefore gods and nature are very similar and intertwine with one another such as the god of fire or the god of fertility or war or the god of the ocean or moon etc. So not much difference between the worshiping of god or the worshiping of nature. Hence gods can form or become humans and vice versa since there is a commonality between the gods and nature and humans. Often after death certain humans can become gods and some gods can becomee humans or spirits and so on. There is a fluid relationship between them.
Divine power according to paganism is conceived on material things usually the stuff the primordial existence is made of. Power can thus be attained by manipulating these material things connected to the metadivine realm such as fire, smoke, water etc. These divine powers can be attained through magic or rituals and humans can tap into these divine powers. This power can then be used to circumvent the gods and force them to do what they otherwise wouldn't do. So being able to manipulate these natural or material forces can influence the behavior of the gods since the gods themselves are under the domain of these primordial forces. These powers of manipulation can also protect humans from the gods and the evil spirits etc. Its the metadivine realm that contains the ultimate power and the gods can be used as a medium in some cases to tap into the metadivine realm. Blood, flesh and water and all this material forces that have some connection with the metadivine realm can be used and manipulated to influence the gods and seek protection from harm.
Pagan rituals and festivals often are reenactments of the death or birth of the gods or battles and major events in the life of the gods. This will bring about the powers of the gods and can be used to continue the birth and fertility of life and bring about victories in battles and so on. These reenactments were a way to continue the divine powers and favors.
Since the primordial forces(metadivine realm) is what everything, including the gods, emerge from, the primordial forces are resposnsible for all good and bad. So there are good gods and evil gods that often battle one another and interact with one another. Death and disease are confined to these evil spirits who are like sibblings of the good gods. Humans can only rely on magic and rituals to reach the powers of the metadivine to protect them against these evil gods and spirits. Once again the need to circumvent these gods and spirits by connecting with the metadivine where all powers finnaly rests.
As far as montheism, well you know that better than I do.
That God is absolute, all knowing, a force of only good, and is supreme over all others and things and is complete distinct from nature and eternal and was always is. Everything fall under His will and nature is an expression of His will and there is no blurring between God, nature and man. God is completely distinct yet in full command.
http//video.google.com/videoplay?docid=7359195828637989025&ei=TCMOS-3xIYH8wQPSloz0Aw&q=old+testament&hl=en&view=1&dur=3#
Hence when the Quran says that God is all knowing and all hearing and all powerfull, this is an alien belief from all pagans. That God can not fall asleep and was always and is always is and does not fall into fatique or forgetfullness etc, all this was alien to the pagans.
The other aspect of paganism that conflicted with the Quran is of course the resurrection of humans and an after life.
I fail to see how Sunnism or Shiasm or Christianity or Judaism has anything to do with this. Thats why the Quran seperated between the kaffirs and the mushriks. Kafir can be someone who has no faith in any god or does not believe in a divine purpose in life. A pagan meanwhile believes in divinity but of the kind I mentioned. The Quran responded by reminding the pagans of their ridicule of God in these mythogy stories where God is perceived as human like doing silly things and acting human like and limited.
Therefore shirk as understood in the Quran and paganism has nothing to do with shirk as its understood by most Muslims.
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Peace all
Most muslims, christians and jews are idolaters according to the quran. As we see, in the verse below, the quran tells us that marrying an idolater (sunni muslim that don't believe in god alone) is forbidden. So my questions are, which verse do members here use to justify their action when god clearly has stated that marrying idolaters is forbidden? And what about those members here who already are married to idolaters? Should they divorce their wifes or husbands if they are idolaters?
Quran, 243
The adulterer will only marry an adulteress
or one who is an idolatress. The adulteress,
she will only be married to an
adulterer or an idolater. This has been
forbidden for the acknowledgers.By the way, i am not here to judge anyone, i am only here to learn and understand why some people on this forum marry sunni muslims. And i am not saying that all sunni muslims (traditional muslims) are idolaters either. So maybe the members here who marries sunni muslims are marrying those of them who are most sincere in their faith. Right?
Me and my friends (we are 5 at total ) do our quran research together. We have just finished our research on the issue of Marriage . It took a lot of time becouse it has so many aspects to contemplate on. We have been working on it for months . We came to the conclusion that we can not marry with sunnis .
I am from Turkey ,most of my people are sunnis . I was once one of them too . They do not read Quran to be able to understand it .Here the belief that "Quran is so hard to understand and ordinary people can not understand it , people can learn it only from the smart ones( in some terms from special people ) whom studied it for so many years" is the dominant idea . They are away from Quran . They act according to the things they hear from the others ,from their ancestors...they do not think ,they just fallow and they think they are on the right path . How can they be real muslims ?( the term that I use for God alone muslims) They say they believe Allah but they go after from some people who claims that they understand islam better than the them. They are doing sirkh . If you go after (obey) something that means you also believe that as a source of worship. They have several Gods that they obey . The important fact here is that they are away from Quran . But they say they believe in Quran .How can they believe someting that they had never intended to understand?After I decided that sunnis are on the wrong path ( After I completed my sirkh research according to Quran ) and that I can not marry them as a person who tries to be a real muslim ,I felt hopeless about marriage becouse all the people around me are sunnis. I tried to get use to the idea of staying alone as a never married girl . But Allah is benevolent if there is me here on the earth ,I am sure there are people like me too . I met someone who wants to learn the true islam whom had seen some muslims "living in a lie". (in his own terms ) I am trying to show him the path I am fallowing and he thinks that it is the truth also . I don't know what are the plans Of Allah for me but I know I am not alone .
Yes, there are God Alone women .At least I know that my friends and I are on that path . We are trying to understand Quran and act according to it . We have so many deficiencies but we are proceeding and willing to proceed . I think we are on that true path .
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After I decided that sunnis are on the wrong path ( After I completed my sirkh research according to Quran ) and that I can not marry them as a person who tries to be a real muslim ,I felt hopeless about marriage becouse all the people around me are sunnis. I tried to get use to the idea of staying alone as a never married girl . But Allah is benevolent if there is me here on the earth ,I am sure there are people like me too . I met someone who wants to learn the true islam whom had seen some muslims "living in a lie". (in his own terms ) I am trying to show him the path I am fallowing and he thinks that it is the truth also . I don't know what are the plans Of Allah for me but I know I am not alone .
Yes, there are God Alone women .At least I know that my friends and I are on that path . We are trying to understand Quran and act according to it . We have so many deficiencies but we are proceeding and willing to proceed . I think we are on that true path .
Congratulations on your Quran study group, elifhande, i envy you for that!
I honestly think you'll find your azwaaj... oops i mean your zawjan! It is described in AQ as one of the signs of Allah!
3021 And of His signs is that He created for you, of yourselves, spouses, that you find rest in them, and he has made between you amity and mercy. Surely in that are indeed signs for a people who meditate.
You do believe on that verse don't you God is listening to you...
Peace
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Congratulations on your Quran study group, elifhande, i envy you for that!
I honestly think you'll find your azwaaj... oops i mean your zawjan! It is described in AQ as one of the signs of Allah!
3021 And of His signs is that He created for you, of yourselves, spouses, that you find rest in them, and he has made between you amity and mercy. Surely in that are indeed signs for a people who meditate.
You do believe on that verse don't you God is listening to you...
Peace
Thank you . I feel it as a great blessing. We help eachother in every turmoil in our lives . We get strength from eachother to be able to stand against the society around us . I am grateful and I wish everyone here to have these kind of groups around them.
Yes I do believe that verse and I know Allah is listening us. You are right .Allah is merciful and hear our prayers always....
Thanx for reminding...
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Me and my friends (we are 5 at total ) do our quran research together. We have just finished our research on the issue of Marriage . It took a lot of time becouse it has so many aspects to contemplate on. We have been working on it for months . We came to the conclusion that we can not marry with sunnis .
I am from Turkey ,most of my people are sunnis . I was once one of them too . They do not read Quran to be able to understand it .Here the belief that "Quran is so hard to understand and ordinary people can not understand it , people can learn it only from the smart ones( in some terms from special people ) whom studied it for so many years" is the dominant idea . They are away from Quran . They act according to the things they hear from the others ,from their ancestors...they do not think ,they just fallow and they think they are on the right path . How can they be real muslims ?( the term that I use for God alone muslims) They say they believe Allah but they go after from some people who claims that they understand islam better than the them. They are doing sirkh . If you go after (obey) something that means you also believe that as a source of worship. They have several Gods that they obey . The important fact here is that they are away from Quran . But they say they believe in Quran .How can they believe someting that they had never intended to understand?After I decided that sunnis are on the wrong path ( After I completed my sirkh research according to Quran ) and that I can not marry them as a person who tries to be a real muslim ,I felt hopeless about marriage becouse all the people around me are sunnis. I tried to get use to the idea of staying alone as a never married girl . But Allah is benevolent if there is me here on the earth ,I am sure there are people like me too . I met someone who wants to learn the true islam whom had seen some muslims "living in a lie". (in his own terms ) I am trying to show him the path I am fallowing and he thinks that it is the truth also . I don't know what are the plans Of Allah for me but I know I am not alone .
Yes, there are God Alone women .At least I know that my friends and I are on that path . We are trying to understand Quran and act according to it . We have so many deficiencies but we are proceeding and willing to proceed . I think we are on that true path .
Hogeldin elifhande,
Yes I've seen that with the Turks I know - I'm told that the Qur'an is too complicated to understand without the hadiths/scholars, but the most they do is recite the Qur'an, not spend any time reading their translations. They listen to others not refer to the Qur'an for answers.
nallah you'll find someone with similar beliefs. -
Hogeldin elifhande,
Yes I've seen that with the Turks I know - I'm told that the Qur'an is too complicated to understand without the hadiths/scholars, but the most they do is recite the Qur'an, not spend any time reading their translations. They listen to others not refer to the Qur'an for answers.
nallah you'll find someone with similar beliefs.I thik marriage depends on the people in it. If they learn to compromise than they can get along easier. However there are some people who think their religion is right and others is wrong. I would look at the person's character and morals and his God fearingness. If my wife choses to be Sunni or not thats her choice. But she can not be a non believer cause that will affect her behavior and attitude. If you are one of those Quranist who see Sunnis as shirk, then obviously you can not be in a marriage with the. But I don't see it that way.
If you are a Sunni that sees Quranist as kufr, then obviously you can not be in a marriage with a Qurani girl. But I don't think its that important if you both believe in God.
