modesty in quran
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May be if men did not spend so much effort and energy in dressing and undressing women, women would not need to think so much about dressing and undressing. This seems to be an unending subject where it is as if the destiny of humanity is being decided, when it is something so simple that men do it all the time and do not make an issue of it. When is this explotiation of women for the sake of burdening them unwarrantedly with requirements that lack foundation and common sense going to stop?
Just recommend modesty and common sense for all and the job is done. And let every person mind his or her own morals and modesty. Adn of course stop making self serving use of the Quran to make it say the opposite of what it says. The morals of the men ARE NOT the departement of women. The morals of every person are the departmen of that person, man or woman.
Salaam
Wow huruf that is so sexist. Men don?t walk around dressing and undressing women, that?s for sure. Just look at the fashion industry or actresses who get naked out of their own free will. Same with pornography.
Common sense ain?t so common because it ain?t innate.
People use the Quran as they know it so when they make claims it?s either because so and so said or because of some understanding they have gathered.
Modesty has requirements the whole point of this is trying to understand what they are.
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For those who want to be unmodest and for those who value lack of modesty verbal dressing and undressing of women done by men is completely redundant. For those who mean to be modest verbal dressing and undressing of women done by men is completely redundant. To preach to the convinced is not much of a feat, unless you want to convince somebody that they must be more than modest or more modest than
And both ways it seems that it is always women who are ordered to to dress or undress. It is insane. Just let them be.
Salaam
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I think it is an Order.
There has to be Order.
The shaytan is the "Author of Chaos". remember that.
Women Must Cover their Breasts and their "Sexual Organ", and what is near to those area's. (thighs and cleavage/Navel).
We live in a messed up world. A World of Much Paradox.
If The Goal of the shyatan, Dajjal, or NWO, or whatever you would like to call it...(i.e. Negative Influence) is to Destroy the family structure and Connection to Allah and what is Holy.
One of the easiest ways to do this, is to Convince the "Slaves" that Slavery is acceptable and in fact much more benefiting to them.
Pornography and Prostitution in the western world...(my Area), has been made appealing for young girls. The Elite have Successfully Convinced Women that it is a Legitimate and Honorable Profession and is a Human Right. They have Successfully, Convinced them that As a Feminist, You should be allowed to willfully Be "Objectified".
And to be honest, it is to a degree, it is True. BUT
We must understand the Core of Feminism, and its Original Intention. Feminism's Original Goal was Equal human rights for Strong women based on "MORALS and PRINCIPALS"..... Again... "MORALS"....
Original Feminists Faught against Sexploitation and Sexualization of Women. They Faught to be Modest, and respected for their Intellect NOT for their Simple Physical Sex Organs.[/color
One must then ask himself. How does a Movement based on Morals and Genuine Principals get turned 360'degress around to being a Movment now about Sex rights that Purposely willfully objectify yourselves?
You see, For a chauvinistic sexualized Male...It works out Perfectly. It means not only is it Okay to engage in female Prostate activities and Pornography, BUT...Now WOMEN are "Cool with it".
but then we find, these Chauvinistic Sexualized males are Too victims of this sinister plan. They (Males) are Conditioned to be Overly Obsessed with Sex and Non-misogynistic things...They are Conditioned to submit to Immoral sexual lustful things. They are Conditioned to Submit to this Sexualized system.
Then in turn, The women who are Also Conditioned, are therefore given to these men easily.
This is a VERY deeply rooted problem, with MANY complications and Many Branches. It would take a long time to explain thoroughly and Does consist of many Parts dealing with the "Elite" the shaytan, and the "Dajjalic system". It is Very very Deep.
But My point is, If we are to make Progress in our Society as Muslims... (Meaning.... Children of Adam. Human beings who serve Allah. Dependents of the One who Knew ALL of the Angles Names!.....)....we as Muslims need to guard our Modesty.
And about this Whole..."women dont need to be forced to cover up"...
I am sorry. I am not very lenient in that Aspect.
I think ALL MEN AND WOMEN NEED (Forced) to Cover their Private parts. If they want to live in a Progressive Modern "Good Society"...They need to cover by Law. Otherwise...They can move to the middle of nowhere and make their own nudist camp if thats what they want. There must be some Order. -
Its so true, the university I attend is full of girls who wear a head scarf but really really revealing outfits aswell which is confusing to me and they are constantly flirting with guys and fighting with each other over guys and gossip and yet ill hear them make nast comments on others who show hair!!!!
We also have a few girls who dress in black jilbab and scarf and cover their face. Being aquainted with a number of them im shocked at how they treat/speak about others. (not all the girls behave like this im just making a point about those who are)
On the other hand I think you should have the choice and do know wonderful people inside and out, who wear hijab and dont judge those who dont....
Wow that sounds alot like where i'm from (uk)
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I am in the UK ......I wonder if this is typical of most unis? I was talking to a friend of mine yesterday who was saying she had felt humiliated by the comments of a certain girl who wears headscarf and jilbab (always in black as she does not agree with colourful displays) I felt sad for her and had only been speaking to another girl in the same year who has also had issues with the girl making nasty comments. Listening to both girls stories it occured to me that the girl who is giving the other two hassle clearly feels superior.
I wonder if this girl realises that wearing hijab is her choice and if she even realises that she has adopted this air of superiority and tendency to be intimidating to others which is upsetting her sisters?
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I am in the UK ......I wonder if this is typical of most unis? I was talking to a friend of mine yesterday who was saying she had felt humiliated by the comments of a certain girl who wears headscarf and jilbab (always in black as she does not agree with colourful displays) I felt sad for her and had only been speaking to another girl in the same year who has also had issues with the girl making nasty comments. Listening to both girls stories it occured to me that the girl who is giving the other two hassle clearly feels superior.
I wonder if this girl realises that wearing hijab is her choice and if she even realises that she has adopted this air of superiority and tendency to be intimidating to others which is upsetting her sisters?
I wonder whether people who do that, in this case wanting to impose hiyab and jilbab or to dminish those who do not wear them, whether they are really convinced that this is the right thing. If they are, why do they need to make other people corroborate that that is the right thing to do or do the same? I tmay also be that they have a craving to order others around and "being superior" gives them the needed motive to impose on others. At any rate, not very satisfied people seems to me.
Salam
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But My point is, If we are to make Progress in our Society as Muslims... (Meaning.... Children of Adam. Human beings who serve Allah. Dependents of the One who Knew ALL of the Angles Names!.....)....we as Muslims need to guard our Modesty.
And about this Whole..."women dont need to be forced to cover up"...
I am sorry. I am not very lenient in that Aspect.
I think ALL MEN AND WOMEN NEED (Forced) to Cover their Private parts. If they want to live in a Progressive Modern "Good Society"...They need to cover by Law. Otherwise...They can move to the middle of nowhere and make their own nudist camp if thats what they want. There must be some Order.Well I'm all for covering my breasts/my cleavage, lengthening my garments and guarding my private parts. Of course I don't want to walk around wearing tank top and mini skirt or stroll at the beach wearing bikini, I'll wear what I deem modest in the area where I live in (meaning, I don't dress to sexually attract men on purpose).
Covering up my private parts and breasts? Yes. Covering up every inch of my body? No.
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but if you hide the minimum from the outside world and say that the ornaments or adornments are private parts then the verse says that you are permitted to display these to your father, brother, son etc... which doesn't seem right, so more area must be covered in order for it to make sense that you can uncover those parts in front of certain people. eg in traditional islam, the hair is covered in front of non mahram but can be revealed to mahrams. so what are the limits in qur'an because to cover the private parts only in front of non mahram would mean being free to reveal them in front of mahram. so what do you think are the limits?
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but if you hide the minimum from the outside world and say that the ornaments or adornments are private parts then the verse says that you are permitted to display these to your father, brother, son etc... which doesn't seem right, so more area must be covered in order for it to make sense that you can uncover those parts in front of certain people. eg in traditional islam, the hair is covered in front of non mahram but can be revealed to mahrams. so what are the limits in qur'an because to cover the private parts only in front of non mahram would mean being free to reveal them in front of mahram. so what do you think are the limits?
Good quistion peace
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peace searching, all.
I recommend
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9597104.0e.g.
total beauty = apparent beauty + hidden beauty
apparent beauty ---> can be revealed in public
total beauty can be revealed to those specifically mentioned in the context (how much of the "total beauty" to reveal is left entirely up to the individual)
Also
http//misconceptions-about-islam.com/dress-code-women-veil.htm -
but if you hide the minimum from the outside world and say that the ornaments or adornments are private parts then the verse says that you are permitted to display these to your father, brother, son etc... which doesn't seem right, so more area must be covered in order for it to make sense that you can uncover those parts in front of certain people. eg in traditional islam, the hair is covered in front of non mahram but can be revealed to mahrams. so what are the limits in qur'an because to cover the private parts only in front of non mahram would mean being free to reveal them in front of mahram. so what do you think are the limits?
Well I think every individual has their own limits. For example, I feel comfortable wearing singlets/tank top and shorts AT HOME where no body but my family or really close relatives is around. But when I go outside, the minimum will be T-shirt and jeans.
