Islamic Response to Nazi Germany
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Peace
In the 1930's Adolf Hitler and his left wing extremist parties swept through Europe invading country after country. Eventually, he was stopped, but only after countries such as the UK and America which were not invaded/not at the time invaded repealed the invaders.
How would the Quranic paradigm of fighting only when you have been attacked applied in this situation? Were the Allies wrong? What would and Islamic nation have done?
Roshan
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peace,
The only exception I am aware of is when there is mass open/direct oppression and a call for help is made, e.g.
And why should you not fight in the cause of God and the weak and oppressed among men, women and children who say, "Our Lord rescue us from this town whose people are oppressors. And give us from You, a protector. And give us from You, a helper"
Also, technically, I would think if a neighbouring country was in fear of attack it could draft a treaty with a "Quranic nation" stating that their only defence is self-defence (i.e. they will not attack others, not oppress their own people), and they have a pact with the "Quranic nation" to help each other if attacked. If the "Quranic nation" agreed, then whoever attacked the treaty country could be attacked (with the same or less severity).
But rules of warfare still apply
http//misconceptions-about-islam.com/fighting-war-terrorism.htm -
peace,
The only exception I am aware of is when there is mass open/direct oppression and a call for help is made, e.g.
And why should you not fight in the cause of God and the weak and oppressed among men, women and children who say, "Our Lord rescue us from this town whose people are oppressors. And give us from You, a protector. And give us from You, a helper"
Also, technically, I would think if a neighbouring country was in fear of attack it could draft a treaty with a "Quranic nation" stating that their only defence is self-defence (i.e. they will not attack others, not oppress their own people), and they have a pact with the "Quranic nation" to help each other if attacked. If the "Quranic nation" agreed, then whoever attacked the treaty country could be attacked (with the same or less severity).
But rules of warfare still apply
http//misconceptions-about-islam.com/fighting-war-terrorism.htmYeah I agree with that.
I think that as Muslims we are Obliged to Stand up for not only "us" but also anyone who is being Oppressed.I dont know if it is in the Quran or Hadith..but it is a Good Proverb...
It basically says...when you see something Wrong taking place....
1)The One who Acts upon it Directly is STRONG in faith...
2)The One who Talks about it is less stronger..
3) and the One who just Merely turns away and only Objects to the wrongness only in his heart...is the Weakest.I like it because, Its like If there was a Man who is innocent and is being Beaten to death, wile you just stand there and do nothing...
You are WEAK in faith...and Honor.But if you know that the poor man is innocent and is being Oppressed...As a Muslim you should Be there to rescue him if you are able to.
or at least Help to the best of your ability, however that may be.Ie. If it means Directly Fighting him then do so.
If it means you have no Arms and must Scream... do so..
If it means you are Weaker in strenghth and must try to ward him off and Get a Stronger person (Police) then do so...
ANY WAY you can...but dont just sit there and do absolutely nothing...Holding it inside you...(That is the Weakest of Faith and Honor)....In other terms...If Hitler is Killing or planning to Exterminate Tons of innocent people in Germany....
He should have been meet with opposing nations planing to stop him and save the Innocent.SIDE NOTE
Children of the World!...All of you should reflect on this.... In my opinion and Theory, I believe that Most of the Nations on Earth did not do their best to stop hitler... because they Supported His Cause. Call me a Conspiracy theory Nut....but I dont care...Iran, Iraq, America, Britain, France, Switzerland, ect.... ALL Supporting him. All apart of the Evil System...
And another Side Note....
What do you all think about Switzerland and their "Neutral Policy?
I think its Bull****. If your not going to get involved...then your Supporting.
If I see Hiter Dominating the World...Raping Pillaging plundering, murdering...and I simply say "Hey...I dont get involved in anything"...I am basically Indirectly Helping him. Its like...If I see someone raping your Mom, and I just say "Hey..None of my Business".... Arent you going to be pretty pi**ed off at me? -
Yeah I agree with that.
I think that as Muslims we are Obliged to Stand up for not only "us" but also anyone who is being Oppressed.I dont know if it is in the Quran or Hadith..but it is a Good Proverb...
It basically says...when you see something Wrong taking place....
1)The One who Acts upon it Directly is STRONG in faith...
2)The One who Talks about it is less stronger..
3) and the One who just Merely turns away and only Objects to the wrongness only in his heart...is the Weakest.I like it because, Its like If there was a Man who is innocent and is being Beaten to death, wile you just stand there and do nothing...
You are WEAK in faith...and Honor.But if you know that the poor man is innocent and is being Oppressed...As a Muslim you should Be there to rescue him if you are able to.
or at least Help to the best of your ability, however that may be.Ie. If it means Directly Fighting him then do so.
If it means you have no Arms and must Scream... do so..
If it means you are Weaker in strenghth and must try to ward him off and Get a Stronger person (Police) then do so...
ANY WAY you can...but dont just sit there and do absolutely nothing...Holding it inside you...(That is the Weakest of Faith and Honor)....In other terms...If Hitler is Killing or planning to Exterminate Tons of innocent people in Germany....
He should have been meet with opposing nations planing to stop him and save the Innocent.SIDE NOTE
Children of the World!...All of you should reflect on this.... In my opinion and Theory, I believe that Most of the Nations on Earth did not do their best to stop hitler... because they Supported His Cause. Call me a Conspiracy theory Nut....but I dont care...Iran, Iraq, America, Britain, France, Switzerland, ect.... ALL Supporting him. All apart of the Evil System...
And another Side Note....
What do you all think about Switzerland and their "Neutral Policy?
I think its Bull****. If your not going to get involved...then your Supporting.
If I see Hiter Dominating the World...Raping Pillaging plundering, murdering...and I simply say "Hey...I dont get involved in anything"...I am basically Indirectly Helping him. Its like...If I see someone raping your Mom, and I just say "Hey..None of my Business".... Arent you going to be pretty pi**ed off at me??Whosoever of you sees a Munkar (an evil or wrong) let him change it with his hand, if he could not, then let him change it with his tongue, if he could not, then let him change it with his heart, and this is the weakest of Iman (faith).? (Sahih Muslim)
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I agree with Wakas on this issue.
In the 1930's Adolf Hitler and his left wing extremist parties
Left wing?? The Nazis were fascists. Or do you mean Russia, which signed a pact with Germany in 1939?
Eventually, he was stopped, but only after countries such as the UK and America which were not invaded/not at the time invaded repealed the invaders.
How would the Quranic paradigm of fighting only when you have been attacked applied in this situation? Were the Allies wrong? What would and Islamic nation have done?Well.. the countries (Germany, USA, Britian, etc.) declared war on each other and fought one another. Either way, the Nazi regime was a regime of terror and oppression (much like the regime of the Soviet Union under Stalin), so 475, 2190, etc. would apply if a "Quranic nation" were to intervene/participate in the war (i.e. under the strict circumstances that it is only to protect others and oneself/self defense), as Wakas has mentioned.
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I agree with Wakas on this issue.
Left wing?? The Nazis were fascists. Or do you mean Russia, which signed a pact with Germany in 1939?
Well.. the countries (Germany, USA, Britian, etc.) declared war on each other and fought one another. Either way, the Nazi regime was a regime of terror and oppression (much like the regime of the Soviet Union under Stalin), so 475, 2190, etc. would apply if a "Quranic nation" were to intervene/participate in the war (i.e. under the strict circumstances that it is only to protect others and oneself/self defense), as Wakas has mentioned.
Actually the Nazis were National Socialists (left wing). The UK declared war on Germany on the 3rd September 1939 in defence of Poland. The USA never did declare war on Germany. Germany declared war on the USA in December 1941 after the Japanese attack on Pearl Habour the same day as the UK declaration of war on Japan
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The Nazis were uniquely anti communist and anti capitalist (which roughly amounted to left and right wing at the time) so it is quite difficult to put them as left or right on our modern spectrum. As national socialists, they pushed forward economic regulations and social welfare programs that could be considered leftist on our modern spectrum. On the other hand, there affirmation of certain inequalities and hawkish war attitudes could be considered right by some. I personally think Nazis are not on the rational spectrum of ideology because they were friggin crazy.
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The Nazis were uniquely anti communist and anti capitalist (which roughly amounted to left and right wing at the time) so it is quite difficult to put them as left or right on our modern spectrum. As national socialists, they pushed forward economic regulations and social welfare programs that could be considered leftist on our modern spectrum. On the other hand, there affirmation of certain inequalities and hawkish war attitudes could be considered right by some. I personally think Nazis are not on the rational spectrum of ideology because they were friggin crazy.
bravo
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The Nazis were uniquely anti communist and anti capitalist (which roughly amounted to left and right wing at the time) so it is quite difficult to put them as left or right on our modern spectrum. As national socialists, they pushed forward economic regulations and social welfare programs that could be considered leftist on our modern spectrum. On the other hand, there affirmation of certain inequalities and hawkish war attitudes could be considered right by some. I personally think Nazis are not on the rational spectrum of ideology because they were friggin crazy.
On the other hand, communism or capitalism isn't the solution.
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Actually the Nazis were National Socialists (left wing). The UK declared war on Germany on the 3rd September 1939 in defence of Poland. The USA never did declare war on Germany. Germany declared war on the USA in December 1941 after the Japanese attack on Pearl Habour the same day as the UK declaration of war on Japan
Thus the USA in this context is the "Quranic Nation"?
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In that way, yes. It did not enter the war in defence of anyone else, only after it was attacked directly.
Well a 'true quranic country' should defend those who are being 'oppressed' or 'massacred'.
Britain and France declared war to Germany once Germany attack Poland, but both country actually does nothing on the battlefield.
They just sit and watch the blitzkrieg shows as performed by the Luftwaffe and the Weirmacht over poorly equipped Polish troops.
Which shall results as aftermath the massacre of Jewish and Gypsy population by the Nazi Germany.USA does not gives a sh*t (excuse my french) on what's happening in Europe, including the massacre performed by the Nazis and also on
what's happening in China/Asia including the massacre of the Chinese and Koreans performed by the Japanese until..
Japan declaration of war and its attack against Pearl Harbour and Germany declare war with the USA.Thus in that sense i would say the "Quranic O Meter" of the 'main actor' nations of the WWII drama is the following
- British 70%
- French 70%
- USA 50%
- Russia 0%
- Germany 0%
- Japan 0%
- Italy 0%
Hmm.. I revised USA to be 15% on Quranic-O-Meter, by putting into the account of Hiroshima and Nagasaki atomic bomb drop..
Which also could be considered as 'massacre' of civilians / non-combatant population.Salam / Peace
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Well a 'true quranic country' should defend those who are being 'oppressed' or 'massacred'.
Britain and France declared war to Germany once Germany attack Poland, but both country actually does nothing on the battlefield.
They just sit and watch the blitzkrieg shows as performed by the Luftwaffe and the Weirmacht over poorly equipped Polish troops.
Which shall results as aftermath the massacre of Jewish and Gypsy population by the Nazi Germany.USA does not gives a sh*t (excuse my french) on what's happening in Europe, including the massacre performed by the Nazis and also on
what's happening in China/Asia including the massacre of the Chinese and Koreans performed by the Japanese until..
Japan declaration of war and its attack against Pearl Harbour and Germany declare war with the USA.Thus in that sense i would say the "Quranic O Meter" of the 'main actor' nations of the WWII drama is the following
- British 70%
- French 70%
- USA 50%
- Russia 0%
- Germany 0%
- Japan 0%
- Italy 0%
Hmm.. I revised USA to be 15% on Quranic-O-Meter, by putting into the account of Hiroshima and Nagasaki atomic bomb drop..
Which also could be considered as 'massacre' of civilians / non-combatant population.Salam / Peace
1st of all.... HAHA I love your "Quranic-o-meter" rotfl it would be cool to have that as an illustration.
2ndly, Yeah but you are only taking into account things you can See. What about all of the hidden involvment?
Like the USA banks and corporations supplying nazi interests, England helping...ect...?We have to remember, its not only about physical war...But also *Hidden Imperialism...Corporatism, Monetary funds, etc...
Only that way, you really find out the real reasons for war, conquering, and such.
Vietnam for instance, was not about "fighting the communists" just as the war in Iraq/afgaistan is Not about "Spreading Freedom"...
btw I would elect Morocco on the Quranic-meter.
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1st of all.... HAHA I love your "Quranic-o-meter" rotfl it would be cool to have that as an illustration.
Merci beaucoup, i'm planning to apply the same concept on other context now..
2ndly, Yeah but you are only taking into account things you can See. What about all of the hidden involvment?
Like the USA banks and corporations supplying nazi interests, England helping...ect...?I only take into the accounts the things that we can see thus confirmed since the unseen is merely hearsay, and you can guess what's my attitude towards hearsay a.k.a gossip a.k.a hadith right?
btw I would elect Morocco on the Quranic-meter.
Morocco?? The francophone? Are you kidding? what is their major role in WWII???
(Of course other than producing the best wine in the world, since ancient times)
Don't tell me you're actually a Morocans, coz that will be bias..Salam / Peace
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Merci beaucoup, i'm planning to apply the same concept on other context now..
I only take into the accounts the things that we can see thus confirmed since the unseen is merely hearsay, and you can guess what's my attitude towards hearsay a.k.a gossip a.k.a hadith right?
Morocco?? The francophone? Are you kidding? what is their major role in WWII???
(Of course other than producing the best wine in the world, since ancient times)
Don't tell me you're actually a Morocans, coz that will be bias..Salam / Peace
Haha no i am not Moroccan. I am actually American (Cuban/Italian) and live in America.
But from what I've heard from Friends and family traveling...Morocco seems to be a pretty cool place in regards to "Quranic City"...
as far as WWII, no...nobody really go involved..I was only using Morocco as a Modern day Quranic Sense.Morocco seems to have more Progressive Muslims, Woman Imans, Woman's Rights, Correct Islamic interpretation, etc...
well at least more than saudi Arabia...lolAs far as America goes... uh.... I wouldnt ever say its "Quranic"...
It would be hard to explain to you because like you said..you dont listen to "hearsay"...But I say Some Hearsay is True.You must understand, Criminals try their hardest to cover up the evidence, so must the TRUE things...you cant actually "Prove".
but no doubt its real.Take For instance, the theories on ZIONISM, IMPERIALISM, and Mass Genocide...well...I cant TOTALLY PROVE every single detail about who was involved when where and how...BUT I can prove little facts here and there.
take 9/11 for example... I cant Really PROVE 100% that it was an inside job...but I think everyone knows now it was.
Take O.J. Simpson...I mean... He was found Innocent, and the State couldn't PROVE in court he was guilty...but its pretty obvious.
If you see a naked girl and naked man in a bed room...I mean...technically..you cant really PROVE that they were having sex...but..logically...we can assume so. I dont think I need to actually see their organs in Use to come to the conclusion. lol laughThe Hints, and clues alone will suffice for me. laugh
I believe WWII went that far to Force the world into Major Turmoil...Thus creating the United Nations.
From there and from the Corporate Influence (IBM/Coke-a-cola,etc) and Banks, they were large investments, Spiritual rituals,
and the creation of Israel. that was the point.Think about this for a moment...
Whos lives are at Risk in the war?
Poor citizensWho looses money in far or pays the end price
poor citizensSo really, a War isnt that bad for The High Leaders...(they never fight and are in constant safety)... so..they just let it all happen and watch/wait.
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Actually the Nazis were National Socialists (left wing).
The Nazis were strictly opposed to Communists, and they were a right-wing party. They were not capitalistic, however, which doesnt mean that they werent right-wing.
From Wiki
Among the key elements of Nazism were anti-parliamentarism, Pan-Germanism, racism, collectivism, eugenics, antisemitism, anti-communism, totalitarianism and opposition to economic liberalism and political liberalism.
As you can see they were very nationalistic (hence the name "National Socialists", racist, Pan-Germanic, etc. which are clearly not left-wing characteristics. The socialistic element is the government intervention into business affairs and the oppositon to capitalism. They were not left-wing, but fascists. I guess you could say far-right with anti-capitalistic (left) elements.
We could sum it up as follows
I personally think Nazis are not on the rational spectrum of ideology because they were friggin crazy.
The UK declared war on Germany on the 3rd September 1939 in defence of Poland. The USA never did declare war on Germany. Germany declared war on the USA in December 1941 after the Japanese attack on Pearl Habour the same day as the UK declaration of war on Japan
USA also declared war on Germany and Italy on the 11th of December, 1941. See http//www.worldwarii.org/ and http//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Declaration_of_war_by_the_United_States
