Excellent Video by an ex Muslim on the unjust concept of Hell in the Quran

Fawzia

This is a truly excellent video, made by an Ex Muslim who'd been Muslim for many years, studied Islam in Egypt & finally realized how wrong it is & was brave enough to apostatize.

His approach is very gentle, compared to angry apostates like myself, so I think its suitable here.

Its about the Quran, not even hadiths.

http//www.youtube.com/watch?v=JPqLpgxPxfc

Wakas

peace Fawzia, all,

I actually decided to watch this video, hoping for some intellectual stimulation, but all I found was the same old story.

You say its "about the Quran" which it is, in part, but he clearly uses Tafsir Ibn Kathir and relies upon so-called "scholar" opinion to help form his views for him.

He says verses such as 262 / 569 refer to people BEFORE Muhammad came, citing Ibn Kathir, and whilst this is plausible because it is in the perfect tense, this view is completely destroyed by other verses in The Quran which refute that position. See

http//misconceptions-about-islam.com/muslim-or-hell.htm

Then he quotes a verse about "no deen other than islam will be accepted by God". This just shows his, and many peoples, complete lack of understanding what deen is, and what islam is. This has been discussed in significant detail in this forum, and there many articles about it, and even a basic study into Quranic usage gives us the true meaning.

deen = that which is due ~ system/obligation. It has no religious significance to it.

islam = self-surrender/submission ~ to make peace. It is a mindset, NOT the title/name of a religion.

When words are used in The Quran, they inevitably gain a special place amongst people, and they become religious-ified, and whilst that is ok as long as one remembers their original usage in The Quran, most do not, hence run into problems. Toshihiko Izutsu discusses this a lot in his works.

He then quotes 986 which uses the partitive "min", meaning not all. This is basic Arabic! I know almost zero Arabic, but luckily for me, God has created a system in which knowledge of Arabic is no match for the power of logic/thought.

etc.
etc.

As a side note, the guy in the video was/is a member here, and participated in forum discussion. Perhaps someone can remind me of the username, which you can then use to look up discussion.

If I may offer some advice, the very fact you use words such as "truly excellent video", and make admission such as "compared to angry apostates like myself" shows you are blinkered and have bias.

Let me be blunt you will NEVER see the truth (whatever it is) with such an approach.

The Perfect Way is only difficult
for those who pick and choose;
Do not like, do not dislike;
all will then be clear.
Make a hairbreadth difference,
and Heaven and Earth are set apart;
If you want the truth to stand clear before you,
never be for or against.
The struggle between "for" and "against"
is the mind's worst disease.

You MUST kill this for/against mindset within you, just like I try to kill it within myself, every day, day in day out, and it is a struggle I can assure you. You will never come across a greater enemy, than the enemy within, I can assure you of that.

"A person's worst enemy is found deep within the center of his spirit"

RA786

Excellent Point Wakas!

About the "Islam is the only religion accreted by God"
I would like to add to that. I Truly Believe Islam will Dominate the World.
But just like the previous verse and what you mentioned...This is NOT in the way that Sunni/Shia and Kaffirs believe it to be.

Let me Translate that same Phrase.
"Peace/Submission/Oneness/Sincerity Will Dominate the World"
"Peace/Submission/Oneness/Sincerity Will ONLY be Accepted by God.

It is made to Appear that Islam is Equal to Chaos/Destruction/Totalitarianism/etc
so that People will believe that and be Against it.

Simple tactic Switch the Synonyms.

I have a Question What is an "Ex Muslim" and a "Muslim Apostate"?
If Muslim means Submitter/Noun-Person of Peace

Then is an "Ex Muslim" and "Muslim Apostate"
A Person now of Chaos/Destruction/Disorder/Rebellion/non-submission to oneness?

! hmm think about it...

Fawzia

peace Fawzia, all,

I actually decided to watch this video, hoping for some intellectual stimulation, but all I found was the same old story.

You say its "about the Quran" which it is, in part, but he clearly uses Tafsir Ibn Kathir and relies upon so-called "scholar" opinion to help form his views for him.

He says verses such as 262 / 569 refer to people BEFORE Muhammad came, citing Ibn Kathir, and whilst this is plausible because it is in the perfect tense, this view is completely destroyed by other verses in The Quran which refute that position. See

http//misconceptions-about-islam.com/muslim-or-hell.htm

Then he quotes a verse about "no deen other than islam will be accepted by God". This just shows his, and many peoples, complete lack of understanding what deen is, and what islam is. This has been discussed in significant detail in this forum, and there many articles about it, and even a basic study into Quranic usage gives us the true meaning.

deen = that which is due ~ system/obligation. It has no religious significance to it.

islam = self-surrender/submission ~ to make peace. It is a mindset, NOT the title/name of a religion.

When words are used in The Quran, they inevitably gain a special place amongst people, and they become religious-ified, and whilst that is ok as long as one remembers their original usage in The Quran, most do not, hence run into problems. Toshihiko Izutsu discusses this a lot in his works.

He then quotes 986 which uses the partitive "min", meaning not all. This is basic Arabic! I know almost zero Arabic, but luckily for me, God has created a system in which knowledge of Arabic is no match for the power of logic/thought.

etc.
etc.

As a side note, the guy in the video was/is a member here, and participated in forum discussion. Perhaps someone can remind me of the username, which you can then use to look up discussion.

If I may offer some advice, the very fact you use words such as "truly excellent video", and make admission such as "compared to angry apostates like myself" shows you are blinkered and have bias.

Let me be blunt you will NEVER see the truth (whatever it is) with such an approach.

The Perfect Way is only difficult
for those who pick and choose;
Do not like, do not dislike;
all will then be clear.
Make a hairbreadth difference,
and Heaven and Earth are set apart;
If you want the truth to stand clear before you,
never be for or against.
The struggle between "for" and "against"
is the mind's worst disease.

You MUST kill this for/against mindset within you, just like I try to kill it within myself, every day, day in day out, and it is a struggle I can assure you. You will never come across a greater enemy, than the enemy within, I can assure you of that.

"A person's worst enemy is found deep within the center of his spirit"

This man, unlike you has studied Islam in extensive detail, studied Arabic in extensive detail in Egypt & realised how vile Islam is.

I too have studied the Quran & the hadiths in detail, forget the hadiths, even the Quran was enough for me to see how God threatens disbelievers, idolators, trinitarian Christians,atheists etc with war in this world & hellfire in the next.

I would certainly not kill my capacity for rational thinking like you have done, to submit to a totalitarian system created by Muhammad.

I certainly have bias, & maybe blinkered, but many Muslims who're incapable to see the warfare, violence & hatred of the Quran are completely deluded.

Thankfully I'm not like that, I have no intention of ever turning like that.

Fawzia

Excellent Point Wakas! D

About the "Islam is the only religion accreted by God"
I would like to add to that. I Truly Believe Islam will Dominate the World.
But just like the previous verse and what you mentioned...This is NOT in the way that Sunni/Shia and Kaffirs believe it to be.

Let me Translate that same Phrase.
"Peace/Submission/Oneness/Sincerity Will Dominate the World"
"Peace/Submission/Oneness/Sincerity Will ONLY be Accepted by God.

It is made to Appear that Islam is Equal to Chaos/Destruction/Totalitarianism/etc
so that People will believe that and be Against it.

Simple tactic Switch the Synonyms.

I have a Question What is an "Ex Muslim" and a "Muslim Apostate"?
If Muslim means Submitter/Noun-Person of Peace

Then is an "Ex Muslim" and "Muslim Apostate"
A Person now of Chaos/Destruction/Disorder/Rebellion/non-submission to oneness?

! hmm think about it...

Thanks for the laughs RA786.

Islam is indeed equal to chaos, destruction & totalitarianism wherever it spreads & wherever its taken seriously.

The best places in the world are the Scandinavian nations, Canada,etc. All the most scientifically, technologically advanced nations, the nations with the most gender equality, with the least conflicts have a common factor, they're seldom Muslim majority AND many, if not most have high % of non believers in any religion or in God\s.

These nations have peace & sincerity, Muslims fleeing their troubled, poor & violece prone nations seek shelter & economic opportunity in such nations, yet they still carry the burden of Islam with them & give dawah to gullibles, coz they fail to realise that its Islam which is the root cause of this violence, poverty, inequality & foolishness.

I don't see the advanced nations like Scandinavian nations, New Zealand etc destroyed because many disbelieve in God\s, I see people flourishing.

I see in the Universal Declaration of Human Rights all the values spelled out explicitly, which Muslims try to wring out by twisting & turning the Quran, with little success.

The Quran is helping practically no one & no place solve their ills-rather Muslims are fleeing such nations for better kafir lands, at least nations which have successfully managed to marginalize it are doing better.

salgan

Peace all

IM not a religionest but I would like to mention something about Canada ,fawzia following link might be helpfull in your studies
http//canadiangenocide.nativeweb.org/ .

Peace Salim

live long and prosper

Fawzia

Peace all

IM not a religionest but I would like to mention something about Canada ,fawzia following link might be helpfull in your studies
http//canadiangenocide.nativeweb.org/ .

Peace Salim

live long and prosper

Thanks for the laughs again salgan! laugh I believe Islamic sites are the best places for comedy value!

I am aware of all this, yet you seem ignorant about the massive Islamic genocides which started right after Muhammad-in my birthplace Iran, in Iraq, Egypt, North Africa, so much of sub Saharan Africa,Turkey, the Indian sub continent, Afghanistan etc.

Islam spread in all these places when Muslims invaded, conducted multiple genocides & killings, butchered infidels, raped innocent kafir women, carried away innocent people as slaves, often after castrating them!

Yet, unlike Canada, there are few apologies for such abominable past behavior, many of these nations have little freedom to leave Islam, & far from taking in people of other faiths & nationalities, as Canada is doing, Muslims continue to cleanse all these olands of what few non Muslims remain! laugh

After all these genocides of kafirs, Muslims haven't created flourishing societies, let alone multi cultural societies, or managed to have human rights for all!

Yet they remain unapologetic & continue to engage in tu quoque logical fallacies about people who've at least created multi cultural, gender equal & advanced societies! laugh

Thanks again.

salgan

Peace all

Im glad I have made you laugh .There is no country in the world that is inocent and to blame one is fool hardy but you no that .but at this minute of time you are on a crusade or jihad in your case.We have more than enough hate mongers do not become anothere one .

Peace fawzia

salim

live long and prosper

Wakas

Re your reply

This man, unlike you has studied Islam in extensive detail, studied Arabic in extensive detail in Egypt & realised how vile Islam is.

your fallacies
ad hominen
appeal to authority

What he does in his videos is point out the wrongs in traditional understanding of The Quran or traditional Islam, not The Quran per se. There is a huge difference. Of course, you may not see the difference, because as you say, you are blinkered and bias.

I too have studied the Quran & the hadiths in detail, forget the hadiths, even the Quran was enough for me to see how God threatens disbelievers, idolators, trinitarian Christians,atheists etc with war in this world & hellfire in the next.

I would certainly not kill my capacity for rational thinking like you have done, to submit to a totalitarian system created by Muhammad.

I certainly have bias, & maybe blinkered, but many Muslims who're incapable to see the warfare, violence & hatred of the Quran are completely deluded.

But you have killed your capacity for rational thinking. Your reply showed a complete and utter lack of evidence-based rebuttal to any of the evidence I presented. Do rational people argue with no evidence? ;D

It is ironic, that you have become what you despise, but dont worry, you're not the first to do this and you wont be the last.

He who fights with monsters might take care lest he thereby become a monster himself. - Nietzsche

I tell you what though, if a forum member remembers this guy's username, let's ask him what the partitive "min" means, amongst other things. ;D

Fawzia

Peace all

Im glad I have made you laugh .There is no country in the world that is inocent and to blame one is fool hardy but you no that .but at this minute of time you are on a crusade or jihad in your case.We have more than enough hate mongers do not become anothere one .

Peace fawzia

salim

live long and prosper

True, but all places in the world are not in the same appalling state as Muslim nations still are, many have acknowledged their past mistakes & strive to make amends.

Currently, some of the best nations are the pretty irrelegious ones, I don't mean Communist ones, simply irrelegious ones like Scandinavian nations.

Islam hasn't so much as apologized, it continues to indulge in finding faults of others & hiding its own.

Also unlike the West, Muslim nations, even oil rich nations won't let permanent non Muslim immigrants settle there, or enjoy equal rights.

Btw, the Crusades wren't unprovoked, they were a belated reaction to extreme Muslim aggression & stealing of lands by Muslims which happened for centuries, the Muslim jihads which happened right after Muhammad were not for "recovering any stolen lands" simply "spreading" Islam! laugh

RA786

Well there Fawzia, I am glad you find it funny. laugh

You see, it is much deeper than you think. Many people I have seen attempt to argue and ridicule religion wile then supporting 1st world western countries like you have done.
That's great because its all a part of "the Plan"

Its Funny you mention how great and technological these countries are. Whats also funny is how the closer to Non-religion they get the closer to their goals and darker they become.

I have realized the ONLY SOLUTION and ONLY TRUE Opposing Force to the imperialistic-globalist-elitist-Occultist newworld secular dis-order is....Islam.
So you can post whatever videos you like. I have found that there will be only One Opposing force against Destruction....and that Force is Islam;Peace/Submission/sincerity to Allah

You either secretly Agree with me but wish to act blind,
Or you really are that blind to realize it.
Either way, I invite you to the Truth.(Islam)

and here is a question Why do you and other Apostates Make put so much effort into going to Muslim websites, Making Apostate Muslim Movies, Books, etc? I am wondering if it is a Show? an Act/Performance?

Its like, Ok I guess I am a Christian Apostate/ Pagan Apostate...and have now Converted to Islam.
I havent wrote anybooks about it. I havent Made any movies or Go on Christian/Pagan Forms to discuss it.

I feel Free from the "chains" of Christianity, Paganism, and Atheism....So...That is why I dont even Associate with them or their websites....

IF you "Really" Broke free from the "Oppressive Chains" Of Islam, Then Why are you on a Muslim Website?
Perhaps what that means is that you are still not free. You are then Still "Chained" to Islam?
Because Ultimately, If you really "Left" islam....Why are you here?

When I left Christianity, I never looked back. I never kept going on pagan/christian websites, or made anti-pagan-christian books/movies, I just simply "Quit"... haha lol...
Because in reality...I was Totally Free. I havent been trying to associate/

Seems to me like maybe something Keeps calling you to Islam. D

CavemanDoctor

True, but all places in the world are not in the same appalling state as Muslim nations still are, many have acknowledged their past mistakes & strive to make amends.

Currently, some of the best nations are the pretty irrelegious ones, I don't mean Communist ones, simply irrelegious ones like Scandinavian nations.

Islam hasn't so much as apologized, it continues to indulge in finding faults of others & hiding its own.

Also unlike the West, Muslim nations, even oil rich nations won't let permanent non Muslim immigrants settle there, or enjoy equal rights.

Btw, the Crusades wren't unprovoked, they were a belated reaction to extreme Muslim aggression & stealing of lands by Muslims which happened for centuries, the Muslim jihads which happened right after Muhammad were not for "recovering any stolen lands" simply "spreading" Islam! laugh

I pity your simplistic view of the world. I don't mean that condescendingly. In earnest, I feel sorry for your rather immature view of how human-relations/belief systems operate in society. Your use of blanket terms like "Muslim nations" and "Islam" (as if these were homogenous concepts) belie either your naivete or agenda. I suspect it's a mixture of both.

We are all shaped by our experiences, to an extent. Some of us, though, let our bad experiences (at the hands of authority, religionists, etc.) completely rule our lives and turn us into "angry apostates" at the sacrifice of rationality. The question is why have you resigned to being one of those people?

Things are rarely all or none, black or white. Shades of grey.

(I speak as a fellow Iranian by the way, if that happens to have any currency with you)

Peace.

afridi220