How sex before Marriage is not haram (prohibited) according to the Quran
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Have you noticed that wherever occurs I have not used the word "possess" as is done by the majority of translators?
Yes I have hence why I haven't rejected your point on authority. Authority is one meaning which comes from malikat as can the word possess. Authority and possess are different things and can change the meaning of an interpretation dramatically in this case. I understand if you have opted for authority
But what I don't understand is how have you accounted for aymunkum (right hands) what is the purpose/function of this word in the phrase Ma Malikat Aymunkum? Do you have a better proposal than oaths?
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Wife is not a possession. Pl again read the Verb. It is a Perfect Transitive Verb; Third Person; Singular; Feminine with feminine marker; Verbal Noun. It denotes possession or ownership of an object with ability to have it to oneself exclusively. It signifies with regard to a person to have the authority for ruling, or ordering, of his or her affair, or case. The perception is the same in both cases whether inanimate object or a living being. The Verbal Sentence is the Linkage Clause for the preceding General Relative Noun.
Authority and Control is the essential ingredient of this Root, Verbal Noun and the Verb. If it is not there, then this word cannot be used for denoting some sort of relationship between two. Also see other Ayuah quoted therein about this Root.
Is one's wife not theirs ? Is it not theirs exclusively? Do I not possess woman x as my wife exclusively? If I do not possess her as my wife, then she is not my wife. But she is my wife thus I possess her as my wife.
Wife is a possession. It is however not a possession who is under your authority. Authority and control are one of the meanings that this root can take. Possess is also another meaning that this root can take and possess and authority are different words. -
Pay little attention to the difference between an abstract noun and concrete noun.
Oaths do not "possess" anything, they put the oath taker under an obligation, not someone else. There is no transitivity in it.I have paid attention and abstract nouns such as oaths, promise intelligence, love and so on can be used as the subject of transitive verbs such as malikat and your understanding of MMA is that when aymunkum
is used as the Subject of a transitive Verb like , there is absolutely no reason that someone be confused to take it as "oaths" instead of "right hand".
(this passage is from your article)How have you come to believe that this cannot be?? or how have you concluded that at least in this case it is not??
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Yes I have hence why I haven't rejected your point on authority. Authority is one meaning which comes from malikat as can the word possess. Authority and possess are different things and can change the meaning of an interpretation dramatically in this case. I understand if you have opted for authority
But what I don't understand is how have you accounted for aymunkum (right hands) what is the purpose/function of this word in the phrase Ma Malikat Aymunkum? Do you have a better proposal than oaths?Not that I have opted, "possessed" cannot be used in this Verbal sentence. If Malakat were used to convey perception of "possessed" the Subject of it would have been "" "the hands of you people".
There was typing mistake by me in putting Dhamma on its Verbal Noun, it is actually , Chapter . I have since corrected it on the site.aymunkum--a man has only one right hand. The word is broken plural and is grammatically singular.
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Is one's wife not theirs ? Is it not theirs exclusively? Do I not possess woman x as my wife exclusively? If I do not possess her as my wife, then she is not my wife. But she is my wife thus I possess her as my wife.
Wife is a possession. It is however not a possession who is under your authority. Authority and control are one of the meanings that this root can take. Possess is also another meaning that this root can take and possess and authority are different words.In what sense you "possess" your wife?
pos?sess
(past and past participle pos?sessed, present participle pos?sess?ing, 3rd person present singular pos?sess?es)
transitive verb-
own something to have or own something
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have something as ability to have something as an ability, quality, or characteristic
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have knowledge of something to have or acquire skill or knowledge of something
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take control of somebody to take control of somebody so that the person's behavior or thinking is affected
possessed by fear and unable to speak -
fill somebody with an emotion to cause somebody to be influenced by something, especially an emotion
The news possessed us with foreboding. -
control feeling to control yourself or a feeling (formal)
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have sex with somebody to have sexual intercourse with somebody (dated) (sometimes considered offensive)
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seize something to gain or seize something (archaic)
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I have paid attention and abstract nouns such as oaths, promise intelligence, love and so on can be used as the subject of transitive verbs such as malikat and your understanding of MMA is that when aymunkum
You have not paid what is called "attention". You ignored red part of quote.
Ok, try making some sentences in English by using these abstract nouns as subject of some verbs.
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Not that I have opted, "possessed" cannot be used in this Verbal sentence. If Malakat were used to convey perception of "possessed" the Subject of it would have been "" "the hands of you people".
There was typing mistake by me in putting Dhamma on its Verbal Noun, it is actually , Chapter . I have since corrected it on the site.aymunkum--a man has only one right hand. The word is broken plural and is grammatically singular.
aymnukum N ?nominative masculine plural noun
PRON ? 2nd person masculine plural possessive pronounWhen I was talking of right hands, surely you were aware of what I was referring in the context of the phrase Ma Malikat Aymunkum. Here it is right hands, not right hand.
Not that I have opted, "possessed" cannot be used in this Verbal sentence. If Malakat were used to convey perception of "possessed" the Subject of it would have been "" "the hands of you people
EXACTLY! That is my whole point to you. If you take it as right hands you would take malekat as authority. But this leaves you with one major flaw which you haven't yet accounted for and I keep asking you for
What does it mean for one's right hand (aymunkum) to have authority? What is the purpose/function of right hands in the phrase Ma Malikat Aymunkum??
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In what sense you "possess" your wife?
pos?sess
(past and past participle pos?sessed, present participle pos?sess?ing, 3rd person present singular pos?sess?es)
transitive verb-
own something to have or own something
-
have something as ability to have something as an ability, quality, or characteristic
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have knowledge of something to have or acquire skill or knowledge of something
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take control of somebody to take control of somebody so that the person's behavior or thinking is affected
possessed by fear and unable to speak -
fill somebody with an emotion to cause somebody to be influenced by something, especially an emotion
The news possessed us with foreboding. -
control feeling to control yourself or a feeling (formal)
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have sex with somebody to have sexual intercourse with somebody (dated) (sometimes considered offensive)
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seize something to gain or seize something (archaic)
In the sense of 1. How else can one express that this is my wife without conveying that I possess a wife? and should they be asked, in what sense do you possess your wife....the answer is surely, in the sense that she is my wife and in the sense that I possess a wife. Just as I may have/possess a lawyer, gardener, doctor etc.
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In the sense of 1. How else can one express that this is my wife without conveying that I possess a wife? and should they be asked, in what sense do you possess your wife....the answer is surely, in the sense that she is my wife and in the sense that I possess a wife. Just as I may have/possess a lawyer, gardener, doctor etc.
Sorry dear, it is so meaningless and superfluous a statement not requiring any comment or explanation. Lot of material on English language is available on line. Please also glance that when have free time.
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You have not paid what is called "attention". You ignored red part of quote.
Ok, try making some sentences in English by using these abstract nouns as subject of some verbs.
I have paid attention. I think because I am not in agreement with you on this point, you are under the belief that I have not paid attention. If you truly believe I have not paid attention, where is it that I have not paid attention?
Example His oath possessed her
Another example His love possessed her -
Incorrect. It is broken plural feminine noun, nominative as subject of feminine verb; singular for grammar and semantic purposes.
Not according to corpus, are your sure you've got this right? Can you clarify?
http//corpus.quran.com/wordmorphology.jsp?location=(4247)
aymnukum
The seventh word of verse (424) is divided into 2 morphological segments. A noun and possessive pronoun. The noun is masculine plural and is in the nominative case (ع. The noun's triliteral root is y mm nn ( ن. The attached possessive pronoun is second person masculine plural.
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Sorry dear, it is so meaningless and superfluous a statement not requiring any comment or explanation. Lot of material on English language is available on line. Please also glance that when have free time.
Your defence against my defence, is that my defence is superfluous and meaningless, that's all your defence. Could you defend your claim/defence by at least explaining how can one convey that they have a wife without somehow conveying that they don't possess that wife??
I cannot see how this can be done thus I cannot see how my defence is wrong. But I can see that you have called the idea of one possessing a wife as meaningless and superfluous. What I don't understand is what your basis for this is. Can you explain how one comes to have a wife but not possess a wife at the same time? This appears illogical and absurd to me??
Thus your defence appears illogical and absurd to me hence your need to check some sources not me.
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Your defence against my defence, is that my defence is superfluous, that's all your defence. Could you defend your claim/defence by at least explaining how can one convey that they have a wife without somehow conveying that they don't possess that wife??
I cannot see how this can be done thus I cannot see how my defence is wrong. But I can see that you have called the idea of one possessing a wife as meaningless and superfluous. What I don't understand is what your basis for this is. Can you explain how one comes to have a wife but not possess a wife at the same time? This appears illogical and absurd to me??
Thus your defence appears illogical and absurd to me
The Wife is a living human being not a full size doll that you possess. It is ridiculous to say that one possesses a wife. "My wife" does not signify "the wife possessed by me". A wife is referred as wife by the name of her husband even when she is dead. According to your proposition could we call her "possessed after death".
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Not according to corpus, are your sure you've got this right? Can you clarify?
http//corpus.quran.com/wordmorphology.jsp?location=(4247)
aymnukum
The seventh word of verse (424) is divided into 2 morphological segments. A noun and possessive pronoun. The noun is masculine plural and is in the nominative case (ع. The noun's triliteral root is y mm nn ( ن. The attached possessive pronoun is second person masculine plural.
It is incorrect. There are still thousand mistakes in the Corpus of Leeds. I also contributed by correcting few hundreds. I will correct further mistakes when I complete the under preperation dictionary alphabetically, 6300 words I have already done.
For this I have uploaded correction on their message board. They will correct it next update.
Rule Irregular plural nouns are always feminine, unless they refer to male humans where they can be masculine.
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The Wife is a living human being not a full size doll that you possess. It is ridiculous to say that one possesses a wife. "My wife" does not signify "the wife possessed by me". A wife is referred as wife by the name of her husband even when she is dead. According to your proposition could we call her "possessed after death".
Ok this may clarify for you
have/hav/
Verb
Possess, own, or hold.Check dictionaries for verification.
and no according to the commonly accepted proposition (not just mine), when a wife is dead, we say, "I had a wife"
When you can't afford a lawyer any more, you say, I had a lawyer (used to possess one). This is not to say that you possess it by force or authority or have authority over it.That which you hastily conclude as ridiculous appears to be fact my friend.
This is established by how one cannot logically respond to How can one have a wife, but not possess a wife at the same time.
Again use a dictionary for verification and do not hastily conclude.
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It is incorrect. There are still thousand mistakes in the Corpus of Leeds. I also contributed by correcting few hundreds. I will correct further mistakes when I complete the under preperation dictionary alphabetically, 6300 words I have already done.
For this I have uploaded correction on their message board. They will correct it next update.
Rule Irregular plural nouns are always feminine, unless they refer to male humans where they can be masculine.
This is good. People who will use such sites and draw benefit from it, will do so because of the efforts of others. I hope you continue the corrections and benefit others in this aspect. This is praiseworthy, well done.
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This is established by how one cannot logically respond to How can one have a wife, but not possess a wife at the same time.
I don't know how to make you understand that this is absolutely a ridiculous comparison of "have" with "possesion of wife"
Have CORE-MEANING a verb indicating that somebody possesses something, either materially or as a characteristic or attribute.
Microsoft? Encarta? 2006. ? 1993-2005 Microsoft Corporation. All rights reserved.I don't know how you stretch it to convert wife into a possession or possessed commodity.
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I have responded to your request for examples by providing you with examples of abstract nouns such as oath being subject to verbs such as possess. However I have asked of you one key question, and have not yet received an answer
You have proposed Ma Malekat Aymunkum to mean
The Woman, upon whom, the right hand of you have the authority for managing her affair.
The Man, upon whom, the right hand of you have the authority for managing his affair.Authority you derived from malekat. So where have you derived have from?
You have also taken it literally as right hand (despite Quran conveying that it also connotes oath) What exactly is the function of the right hand (not just hands, but right hand) of someone with regards to authority? What other likeness, implication, point of coherence is there in the Quran that uses right hands in such a manner? Is there anything other than oath?? -YOUR OATHS = Aymanikum 2224,225,589,1692,94,662 THEIR OATHS = Aymanihim 5108,6109,1638,2453,3542