If Allah wants things to be easy for us, why so much confusion about salat?
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It is inevitable when people want to look for something as opposed to receive what is given, it's not a matter of choice, follow what is clear and simple and makes sense to you, thats my motto!
Maybe one day like the birds, everyone will know there salat!
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who said that?
We can put that to a questionnaire. But I am a witness to the people here who create sects (whether of themselves, or of those claiming to uphold the quran). I seek forgiveness from the god from doing such mistakes and going against quran 6159 and 3159
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Peace Masoom,
Maybe one day like the birds, everyone will know there salat!
We already know it. Just focus on the purpose and effect of "salat".
From the great reading, its purpose is to remember the god. Its effect is to take us out of the darkness and into the light (enlightment) and it instructs us not to do bad things.
There is no other way to remember or memorize anything other than by learning it and then reinforcing that learning.
Also, enlightment is the effect of learning and teaching others.
Also, if you want anyone not to do something bad you teach them not to do it and then remind them.
So the meaning of "salat" is learning/teaching of the god's signs either alone or in group.
This is also why it is best done at the specific times when our mind is most open to learning.
This is why the terms "reading" and "salat" are used interchangeably (dawn's reading/dawn's salat).
3341-43. O you who have faith, you shall remember the god frequently and glorify him morning and evening. He is the one who "yusali" on you, he and the controllers, to lead you out of the darknesses into the light and he is ever merciful towards those who have faith.
6510-11. ...Therefore, you shall reverence The God, O you who possess intelligence and have faith, The God has sent down to you a reminder A messenger who recites on you the god's clarifying signs, to lead those who have faith and work righteousness out of the darknesses into the light. Anyone who has faith in the god and leads a righteous life, he will admit him into gardens with flowing streams; they abide therein forever. The god will generously reward him.
Peace,
Ayman
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Peace everyone,
I discovered Islam 5 years ago now and yet I'm still not 100% sure about salat. What is puzzling to me is that if it is so important, why didn't Allah make it ABSOLUTELY clear as to how to pray? Meaning, if it is as crucial to being a Muslim as MOST say, why is it not listed in the Quran perfectly detailed, without any room for questions? Why must we flip around to different chapters piecing the directions (ie times/amounts, etc) together in order to do something that we are "required" to do? Some say that the word salat does not mean prayer, and more explanations of the term are cited adding to the confusion. And please, don't try to say it's very clear, 27 pages of questions/comments on this forum within the "Salat & Zakat" section does NOT show that it's clear. So far, it is the only thing in the Quran which I cannot ,for the life of me, wrap my head around. And one post within this section actually criticizes us for so many of us questioning the exact meaning, that is an insult to my intelligence. (
lf
Peace,
I haven't done my "salat" study yet but when it comes to the issue of finding detailed explanation of concepts in Kuran, I always remember the story of the Moses and the people of Israil about slaughtering a heifer.
266 So it was that We made it into an example for what had happened in it and also what had passed, and a reminder to the righteous.
267 And Moses said to his people God orders you to slaughter a heifer. They said Do you mock us? He said I seek refuge with God that I not be of the ignorant ones.
268 They said Call upon your Lord for us that He may clarify which it is. He said He says it is a heifer neither too old nor too young, an age between that. So now do as you are commanded.
269 They said Call upon your Lord for us that He may clarify what color it is.He said He says it is a yellow heifer with a strong color, pleasing to those who see it.
270 They said Call upon your Lord for us that He may clarify which one it is, for the heifers all look alike to us and we will, God willing, be guided.
2 71 He said He says it is a heifer which was never subjugated to plough the land, or water the crops, free from any blemish. They said Now you have come with the truth. And they slaughtered it, though they had nearly not done so.
What I understand from these verses is
Whenever GOD wants something from us to do, GOD always gives us enough explanation.( All the information that we have to know or need to know )
In the verse above God wants them to slaughter a heifer. It is a plain and a direct order but for the people it is not enough due to several reasons. In my opinion ,they were aware of what kind of a heifer they sould slaughter very well .The answer was in their heart allready . But i guess they did not wanted to slaughter "the heifer" in the first place so they ask God with the hope of a getting a different answer. But on the other hand if they did not ask for a detailed explanation they had the chance to chose an ordinary heifer as they wish according to the value they give to their creator. I also think that from this point the differences in the degrees of the muslims arise .
So to say for Salat there is also enough explanation in Kuran . All we have to do is to study the verses to reach the right understanding of the direct and plain order and then listen to our heart for the details.
It is just an opinion of mine that i reached according to my readings of Kuran , for now. Hopefully Allah will guide us to a better understanding if we stay in his path .
Peace
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You made some good points April4, well said.
Thank you
My sunni friends always reject taking Quran as a complete guidance. They always ask me how they are supposed to know the detailed instructions which are not in quran. I do tell them these verses and then my opinion about it along with some other verses about "the book Quran" but still they refuse to believe Quran is complete. (
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Thank you
My sunni friends always reject taking Quran as a complete guidance. They always ask me how they are supposed to know the detailed instructions which are not in quran. I do tell them these verses and then my opinion about it along with some other verses about "the book Quran" but still they refuse to believe Quran is complete.
Selam
Simply ask them to show you in their sunni books where it gives detailed guidelines on how to perform salat. They seem to think its in there fully detailed!
Peace
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Yes, hope4 is right.
The books of hadith do not contain nearly as much information about "salah" as they will have us believe.
By "salah" I mean the 5 daily rituals which are a part of the Sunni tradition.
Anyone among us here should not forget to raise this point when in discussion with a Sunni, whether it be family or friends.
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My biggest problem with salah right now is the congregational prayer.
I like congregational prayer. And if there is no fixed authoritative guideline on how to pray, which I can understand, then what happens to the masjid? How do people then pray in congregation?
And yes, I'm fully aware that liking something isn't a strong reason to include it in your belief system. But I have an intrinsic, instinctual attraction to the notion of a physical salat performed in masjids at fixed time periods.
The reasons I like this concept is because it acts as a reminder for everyone that they are brothers under the God. It forces the rich and the poor to stand shoulder to shoulder several times a day. I have no problem in accepting what people are saying here about salah being a connection with God where we remember Him and revere him by reading his great reading, but what becomes of the physical congregational salah??
As an architecture student, I've spent a considerable amount of time researching the development and organization of the old Arabian and Islamic cities, where the acts of worship, trade, commerce, and residence were all occupied in the same space; where the city grew around the main mosque. It's this concept, that the mosque is the center of the city and thereby the symbolic center of people's lives that I've always adhered to and loved.
So while I can understand and admire a more 'free-form' interpretation of prayer, and its implications to people around the world, I can't shake this nagging longing to find an ayah in the reading that would finally "7addid" or set in stone how it is to be performed, and for it to be performed in congregation.
Edit And it is this confusion that is causing me distress in my faith. Because I find myself unable to perform any salah. When I believed that there was one fixed way of doing it, I had no problems focusing and connecting in earnest with God. But now I'm unconvinced that my method is correct, and this inner dilemma is hindering me from performing prayer with the purity that I had before...
(
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Peace be with you ths!
I enjoy a ritualized/liturgical salat myself. I pray 3x a day. My prayer is similar with the Sunni minus parts that address or elevate any but God. I pray in English though sometimes in Arabic. If you pm me I will send you a copy of how I pray a Quran Only type of Salaat. It is not the only way by any means but it is one way. )
Jay
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Peace THS
I totally understand what u r feeling. I have been feeling the same way. At the moment I am in a phase where I am not doing ritualistic prayer 3 times a day regularly. I feel confused in understanding what i am suppose to do in a prayer. I have tried to to do 2 sujood while saying some quranic verses but then the next day I become lazy due to confusion about timings and if Salah is also studying the quraan and "thanking" Allah and doing good deeds etc.
I read a lot of posts here at the moment and i agree with many here on FM. I have come to learn about Islam as the most beautiful way of living. And the Quraan as my ONLY guidance. With a lot of Quraan studying I hope to gain more knowledge and applying it to my life .
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Thanks brother I'd love to hear your views! I'll PM you now
I feel confused in understanding what i am suppose to do in a prayer.
the next day I become lazy due to confusion about timings and if Salah is also studying the quraan and "thanking" Allah and doing good deeds etc.
Yes I experience this same thing. And that worries me, because before the right answer always felt right, and if one didn't obey then it was out of sheer laziness and negligence.
But this is a new kind of problem uncertainty in what you're doing.I don't want to hijack this thread, but I think I can pinpoint now what my greatest problems are with this new interpretation the lack of community involvement.
I used to have a set of ..let's say "pragmatic" reasoning behind every Muslim act of worship. I'll explain them as follows
Prayer Your inner, personal connection with the one God. That is easy to understand.
Congregational Prayer To build a sense of unity as a community. Where the rich stand amongst the poor, where racial and class distinctions are destroyed, where brotherhood is truly created for all to see. They stand together, bend together, and kneel together.
The sight of people flocking to the mosques after hearing the adhan would itself act as a trigger of shame for the lazy - I know it has shamed me on several occasions!
Also, I saw the fixed timings as a beautiful thing - set in stone to help the community take breaks from their work and hardship in the most ideal times as preferred by God.
The workers were now free 5 times a day to stop working, having a drink of water, refresh themselves, and perform a prayer together. To affirm their brotherhood. I saw this as an emancipation and liberation of the poor workers of the world, for who could tell them not to stop so that they could pray?Hajj
a) To me the Hajj was meant to be a lesson. It was a time where people came together, but could do no wrong, nor steal, nor be rude to one another -- essentially it is the perfect community, for one week of each year, and I saw its divine 'logic' as a lesson, whereby all the people who took part in it were taught how a TRUE community under God should act, in the hopes that they would then take this knowledge away with them to their own communities and propagate it.
b) I also thought of the Hajj as a safeguard, to make sure Muslims all over the world safeguarded the correct teachings of religion. If Musims in China had no reason to travel all the way to Mecca, then their community would become isolated, and bid3a and innovations would spread through the religion. So the Hajj was a protector and a guideline for all the communities.
Ramadan
Ramadan also had a community meaning to me. Of course it is a personal quest, but a whole community of people abstaining for food for the whole day for an entire month is a powerful thing to see, and inspiring to all. Again, a sort of reminder to those who have strayed over the year that it is now time to get back in the fold.
Zakat
This is the most obvious relation to community. Whereby the rich feed the poor, and the money of the society trickles down from the top to the bottom. It is self explanatory and its wisdom is obvious.
So my problem is that with the breakdown of a fixed system of prayer, set in stone on specific times of the day, everyone will be praying by themselves, and if no one can agree on the exact way to pray, or the direction to pray to, then how are we to pray in congregation?
Then ayah 2145 really does gain some meaning
Even if thou wert to bring to the people of the Book all the Signs (together), they would not follow Thy Qibla; nor art thou going to follow their Qibla; nor indeed will they follow each other's Qibla.Edit I found an excellent link posted by Wakas on another thread http//mypercept.co.uk/articles/quran_on_salat.htm
Seems to be a pretty substantial list of all ayahs relating to salah and a short sentence summarizing each. Very useful -
Just a thought. I am trying to form a local community in my state. I have wrestled with how to do this if God willing we succeed. I think there would need to be things that this community aggreed upon in order to meet together. Maybe it is a form their prayers will take. I cannot imagine the prayers during the time of Muhammed being chaotic with each one doing their own thing. I think they had a way of doing them. I think we too could have a procedure. We may have to admit that it is not set in stone, but represents our community coming together as one to pray. They of course would be free to follow the dictates of their conscience and their understanding of the scriptures...but I think God has allowed us some freedom in how we approach Salaat-that those communities who prefer the ritualistic prayer could do so and those with more individualistic expressions could do so as well. I am sure this was something similar that was expressed when the Protestant Reformation broke away from the Roman Church. Some of them retained a liturgical structure similar to the Roman (minus parts they considerered in error) while others changed the structure completely all according to their understanding of the early church, scripture, and the dictates of conscience.
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This makes me think that there's a bit of a paradox in taking the Quran alone.
Part of the beauty of taking the Quran alone (besides the logical arguments of course) is that it will demolish all the sects - and as a result all the new adherents from the various sects shall be as one. It is the only way to remove the other sects. I don't see how sunnis believe that all the other sectarians will somehow see the 'light' or truth in their version and begin to follow them, nor how the shia believe that all the other sectarians will see the light in their teaching.
The only logical way to combat sects is to follow what we all have in common the QuranBut,
If there is a widespread disagreement on prayer and how it is to be performed, then surely more sects will develop? People who believe it is a physical prayer will refuse to pray in the mosques of those who believe it is a reading, and those who believe it is a reading only without prostration to the ground will refuse to pray in the mosques of those who believe it is a physical prayer, and so on and so forth.
And the end result of that will be two or more camps, but instead of shia and sunni we now have the physical prayers and the non-physical prayers, and all of their subsects.
giveup -
Salaam, when I reverted it was in a Sunni majority Mosque & after my reversion I was reminded that I was a Sunni Muslim. I didn't know much about the differences between the Muslim 'sects' I just believed in Allah as the only God & Muhammad as His last Prophet & felt I had to make that declaration to become a Muslim. I prayed as a Sunni, 5 times a day to start with because this is all I knew & all I was told by my Sunni Akhi's. As we know there is no clear example in the Qur'an of how to physically pray except bow & prostate & if we are to do what feels right then what's wrong with praying like the Sunni's pray? I still pray like this, although not 5 times a day & it still feels right to me. I don't do that 'tapping finger' thing anymore though! I basically follow the example at submission.org website. However we pray to Allah, Allah knows that we are submitting and praying to Him alone & surely that's all that matters?
Peace. -
I don't see why it would have to result in more sects. I for one have no problem with those who follow a ritualistic Salaat nor with those who hold that we should do it 5 times a day. The Quran allows for diversity of opinion on this issue...should we do any less?
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The books of hadith do not contain nearly as much information about "salah" as they will have us believe.
By "salah" I mean the 5 daily rituals which are a part of the Sunni tradition.
Anyone among us here should not forget to raise this point when in discussion with a Sunni, whether it be family or friends.
Salam
Can you kindly provide some detailed references to substantiate this stand.i always thought that details of the Prophets prayer including his duas called 'Masnoon'duas are available in the books of hadith.
Javed -
peace Javed,
You may find this link helpful
http//www.astudyofquran.org/web/index.php?id=60,0,0,1,0,0Peace Wakas.
Thank you for the link.You are ever ready to help,as always.God Bless.That article was helpful but not too much since the evidence provided is too little and too generalised.To claim and prove that even the books of hadith do not shed light on the Prophet's understanding of salat would be a major nail in the traditionalist cofffin since they always claim that they stick to hadith because they can perform God's command to uphold salat better with them.And yes, they do have a number of ahadith which they can furnish to supposedly describe his salat in detail.A bit contradictory but they have their explanations for that.So at the moment, it would be unconvinceing to claim Hadith does not contain the methods of the Prophet's salat and such a stance would be rejected in a court of law.All views on this narrow point are welcome.
Javed
