How masturbation is against the quran let alone sex before marriage
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fftopic why get out our attention falsely for masturbation and the quran???
Anywho.. I married for love, I married the most righteous mate for myself. BELIEVING MEN ARE FOR BELIEVING WOMEN. We did not marry for the money, we met and we were both going through some rough times. We did not marry for looks, he had some skin problems(acne etc...) and I had a few extra pounds and scars. We kept each other going by our faith, beliefs, values and we have came up from almost nothing together. I am one of the lucky ones to have a wonderful mate.
Alhumdulilah Sister
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hail Alhumdilliah indeed.
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offtopic why get out our attention falsely for masturbation and the quran???
Anywho.. I married for love, I married the most righteous mate for myself. BELIEVING MEN ARE FOR BELIEVING WOMEN. We did not marry for the money, we met and we were both going through some rough times. We did not marry for looks, he had some skin problems(acne etc...) and I had a few extra pounds and scars. We kept each other going by our faith, beliefs, values and we have came up from almost nothing together. I am one of the lucky ones to have a wonderful mate.
That's good to know. Thank you for sharing.
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I subscribe to the Conspircay Belief that the Elite Powers of this world want us humans to be controled and depopulated. I also believe that the Economy and Structure of the world today is made in such a way that it will ensure poverty of all mankind, and will force them to leave all forms of Religion or Spiritual Enlightenment.
Well in your previous post you claimed that it was "ridiculous" for someone "not to marry", and also cited two reasons why someone wouldn't "want" to marry. The latter is not a matter of "want", but of sacred scripture; in addition, I reasoned from scripture to show you why someone might choose against making marriage and family a priority in their life. So if such a conspiracy exists, then the evil consequences would be a result of the sins of the world, and not because someone with taqwa chooses celibacy over marriage.
I believe that When you Marry and have a Child, it is Probabily one of the Greatest Spiritual/Physical Rituals you can have partake in, and it will help get you to a Higher level in Spiritual Evolution. (this right now is heresay, I havent proven it yet).
It's fine that you "believe" this, but why? As you said it's "hearsay", even though I've never heard this said anywhere. Did our Lord tell us that He bestows His grace more on those who have children? On what basis do you say "it will help you"? These are just your vain desires not what our Lord teaches.
But I think that is one of the Reasons why the Current Elite make the world in a way that makes it Economically Impossible to have Children and Marry.....In addition....I think they Also brainwash and condition others to subscribe to this whole Not haveing children belief.
Well their "brainwashing" hasn't worked too well, most people desire marriage and a family.
Personnaly, I think Having children would Further my Spiritual Process to a higher level no doubt. Sure it is possible for some to forget about Islam and GOD by having children...but then we can say that just Living Period could cause someone to forget about islam.
Wrong, it's not about "living", it's about living for the right reasons, to purify and save the soul, and not to be of the world. The goods of this world are clearly a fitna according to God, so to desire children, family, wealth etc is to desire the goods of this world, and thus to desire more fitna. When viewed as such, it is hardly "ridiculous" to make marriage less of a priority in one's life.
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I was just stating my opinion, which to everyone else could mean nothing.
I said at the MOMENT, I think it is heresay (just a personal belief based on personal observation), that doesnt mean its not wrong....or ....Right.
If someone Chooses Cellebacy over marriage that is up to them, I never said it was "Haraam", rather I said it sounds rediculous to me.
From the Bible, It was told to me that Jesus said " whoever doesnt marry is consitterd half-a man".
Also in hadiths Muhammad is reported to saying the same thing...Now does this hold validity? No, not really...They are both Hadiths...supposed sayings...So the Quran must be held above them.
I know this. Im not refuting this at all.I guess I was only trying to say that Family Seems to be One of the Most Important things in Scriputre, Science, and Sociology.
I always had an Uneasy feeling about Priests and Monks who didnot have sex nor get married.Does this make them anymore "Unholy or Unworthy"....? I'm not saying that.. I guess to me Marriage and Family seems to be something for EVERYONE...I cant see why someone wouldnt want to do so.... (perhaps only someone with a Severe handicap)
But as far as "Free From Want?"
I have never met someone who Truely NEVER wanted to get married nor have children. Even Homosexuals have a deep desire to get married and have children...(which seems odd to me) But My point is that... Free from Want? is there really such thing?
Peace/Salaam
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I subscribe to the Conspircay Belief that the Elite Powers of this world want us humans to be controled and depopulated. I also believe that the Economy and Structure of the world today is made in such a way that it will ensure poverty of all mankind, and will force them to leave all forms of Religion or Spiritual Enlightenment.
I believe that When you Marry and have a Child, it is Probabily one of the Greatest Spiritual/Physical Rituals you can have partake in, and it will help get you to a Higher level in Spiritual Evolution. (this right now is heresay, I havent proven it yet). But I think that is one of the Reasons why the Current Elite make the world in a way that makes it Economically Impossible to have Children and Marry.....In addition....I think they Also brainwash and condition others to subscribe to this whole Not haveing children belief.
Personnaly, I think Having children would Further my Spiritual Process to a higher level no doubt. Sure it is possible for some to forget about Islam and GOD by having children...but then we can say that just Living Period could cause someone to forget about islam.
No need to bring the elite powers into it. It's plain and simple materialism that makes people against having children. When money takes possession of peoples hearts they become very inhumane, and the first sign of that is a dislike of procreation, along side a contempt for what becomes of society after they die.
Oliver James writes very well about the disease of materialism, he calls it the affluenza virus http//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Affluenza
These people are genuinely mentally ill, and probably half the population of the developed world are seriously infected.I think this is all because the material world is in fact the satanic realm when God threw Lucifer out of heaven, this is where he ended up. And there's nothing wrong with this, one of the purposes of life as I see it is for us to raise up the material/satanic world through marriage and procreation, to make the world more human by filling it with human kind.
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possession of peoples first sign of that is a dislike of procreation,
one of the purposes of life as I see it is for us to raise up the material/satanic world through marriage and procreation, to make the world more human by filling it with human kind.
Exactly My Point. I 100% Agree with you. D
Salaam -
I aagree with RA and liquiddarma. I think that to believe that one can attain more spiritual life by keeping off marriage and procreation is a might delusion. Life is a trial and a battle where we strive to attain to higher awareness and transformation, so that we fit in the nexy step. How can you win a battle if you keep off it? How can evolve if you run away from those things tht make you evolve even when it is the hardest thing on earth?
I can understand that some people do not marry because simply their mind and their soul is not in it. So it is their nature and you cannot force an apple tre to grow strawberries. But to make the choice of keeping single as a more spiritual life is an error, because you overcome this world fighting in this world, not hiding from it. To put yourself in another person's hands and win or loose, to have children who may break your heart and everything in you and who may also heal you and to stand by them and trust their destiny, that is real learning and that is real spiritual growth. What you say about seclusion and seeking spirituality actually to me it looks more as masturbation. and sorry to be blunt. Of course it is different if your natural tendencies make you shy from marriage and you actually cannot put your heart in a partner or a family. Finally it takes all kinds of people to make a world and it is God's choice to make a person like you. However real spirituality is more readily and certainly attained by living in the world, not apart from it. That is what I have seen and that is what the spiritual teachers I have known do teach. But in this as in most things, I wouldn't go and say NOBODY can be spiritual oouside marriage. I suppose sme people, because of their own temperament can and may only tht way they can, but as a choice I think it is a biiiig mistake. Als to add that nothing is automatic, you have to want God to rule your life and not your own will and feel frustrated if you cannot make your will win. God is generous and the best of its generosity are the children that come to mess up your life. There, you yourself start to grow.
Salaam
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I Like what you said huruf , and I like what you said about Masterbation.
I think its true. Its similar to being a Sufi or a Monk. Being Secluded isnt always a Good thing. there should be Balance.If you notice... There are MANY examples in ALL religons and Science dealing with the Duality of Man and Woman.
Penis>Vagina Man>Woman Ying>Yang Black<White Etc...(that Idea).I cant find the Bible verese yet where I heard it says "whoever doesnt marry is consitered half of a Man"... (does this sound familair? I cant find it).
But If it is a True Verese(Scripture) from GOD, then I can see and understand why....When you are married...you may be Symbolically Whole? Spiritually? Divine Union between entities? It seems this is our Rite of Life.
I think Deep Down even Monks and Priests wish they could get married to a woman. Everyone wants to be with someone....I mean, if I was practicing Cellebacy and was a Priest/monk... I would feel somewhat incomplete... I would want a soul mate to embark on this Journey of Dunya.
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I aagree with RA and liquiddarma. I think that to believe that one can attain more spiritual life by keeping off marriage and procreation is a might delusion.
Apparently this is just your delusion since no one actually said this. In fact what was actually said was the exact opposite by "RA"
" I believe that When you Marry and have a Child, it is Probabily one of the Greatest Spiritual/Physical Rituals you can have partake in, and it will help get you to a Higher level in Spiritual Evolution."
So "RA" believes that having more children merits you more grace from God, of course as he himself admitted, this is just his own personal opinion, with zero scriptual support. He also claimed that the life of chastity was "ridiculous", no one said married life was ridiculous though.
Life is a trial and a battle where we strive to attain to higher awareness and transformation, so that we fit in the nexy step. How can you win a battle if you keep off it? How can evolve if you run away from those things tht make you evolve even when it is the hardest thing on earth?
No one's running away, all this is in your head. All that has been said is that some people don't feel the need to run towards marriage and children.
I can understand that some people do not marry because simply their mind and their soul is not in it. So it is their nature and you cannot force an apple tre to grow strawberries.
Can you understand? One's mind and soul might be more inclined to less worldly endeavours.
But to make the choice of keeping single as a more spiritual life is an error, because you overcome this world fighting in this world, not hiding from it.
Nice catch phrase, but our Lord would disagree, see 2433 and especially the second half of 425, where the virginal state is superior to certain lawful marriages.
To put yourself in another person's hands and win or loose, to have children who may break your heart and everything in you and who may also heal you and to stand by them and trust their destiny, that is real learning and that is real spiritual growth.
So you say. In contrast, see what our Lord says about obstinately clinging to family at 923-24 and see the stories of Abraham and his father, as well as Noah and his son.
What you say about seclusion and seeking spirituality actually to me it looks more as masturbation. and sorry to be blunt.
More delusions, the word seclusion has not appeared in this thread in any way. Well we see where your mind is, don't we? Don't say sorry to me, your problem is with God and what He has revealed.
Of course it is different if your natural tendencies make you shy from marriage and you actually cannot put your heart in a partner or a family. Finally it takes all kinds of people to make a world and it is God's choice to make a person like you.
Riiight it's "shyness"...it's not the verses cited from sacred scipture.
However real spirituality is more readily and certainly attained by living in the world, not apart from it.
I said don't be "of the world". not don't live in it. Maybe you should try reading the thread.
That is what I have seen and that is what the spiritual teachers I have known do teach.
Maybe you should forget about your "spiritual teachers" and focus on the only One who can guide to truth and read His word.
But in this as in most things, I wouldn't go and say NOBODY can be spiritual oouside marriage. I suppose sme people, because of their own temperament can and may only tht way they can, but as a choice I think it is a biiiig mistake.
So some people just might be saved outside of marriage, well how generous of you! It's clear you and others are just too arrogant to accept what our Lord has said.
Als to add that nothing is automatic, you have to want God to rule your life and not your own will and feel frustrated if you cannot make your will win.
Oh wait you mean like being satisfied/contented outside of the marriage state (2433)??
God is generous and the best of its generosity are the children that come to mess up your life. There, you yourself start to grow.
"5720 KNOW that the life of this world is but a play and a passing delight, and a beautiful show, and your boastful vying with one another, and greed for more and more riches and children."
Salaam
awww how nice, after a paragraph of pure venom and lies.
Anyone who is honest can see that all I ever said was that there were valid, scriptural reasons to remain chaste; and that it makes perfect sense to choose this route for spiritual reasons. This was in response to "RA" who ridiculed chastity and could not understand why anyone would not want to marry. It remains obvious and indisputable that marriage and children are worldly goods and a fitna see 6414-15. Moreover, our Lord has given detailed guidelines on who we can and cannot marry. If marriage were spiritually superior, in and of itself, He would not have given us these restrictions. As it stands the virginal state is superior to everything, except marriage to a believer. The sanctified marriage is righteous befor the Lord and so is that state of chastity that is done with taqwa.
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Apparently this is just your delusion since no one actually said this. In fact what was actually said was the exact opposite by "RA"
" I believe that When you Marry and have a Child, it is Probabily one of the Greatest Spiritual/Physical Rituals you can have partake in, and it will help get you to a Higher level in Spiritual Evolution."
So "RA" believes that having more children merits you more grace from God, of course as he himself admitted, this is just his own personal opinion, with zero scriptual support. He also claimed that the life of chastity was "ridiculous", no one said married life was ridiculous though.
No one's running away, all this is in your head. All that has been said is that some people don't feel the need to run towards marriage and children.
Can you understand? One's mind and soul might be more inclined to less worldly endeavours.
Nice catch phrase, but our Lord would disagree, see 2433 and especially the second half of 425, where the virginal state is superior to certain lawful marriages.
So you say. In contrast, see what our Lord says about obstinately clinging to family at 923-24 and see the stories of Abraham and his father, as well as Noah and his son.
More delusions, the word seclusion has not appeared in this thread in any way. Well we see where your mind is, don't we? Don't say sorry to me, your problem is with God and what He has revealed.
Riiight it's "shyness"...it's not the verses cited from sacred scipture.
I said don't be "of the world". not don't live in it. Maybe you should try reading the thread.
Maybe you should forget about your "spiritual teachers" and focus on the only One who can guide to truth and read His word.
So some people just might be saved outside of marriage, well how generous of you! It's clear you and others are just too arrogant to accept what our Lord has said.
Oh wait you mean like being satisfied/contented outside of the marriage state (2433)??
"5720 KNOW that the life of this world is but a play and a passing delight, and a beautiful show, and your boastful vying with one another, and greed for more and more riches and children."
awww how nice, after a paragraph of pure venom and lies.
Anyone who is honest can see that all I ever said was that there were valid, scriptural reasons to remain chaste; and that it makes perfect sense to choose this route for spiritual reasons. This was in response to "RA" who ridiculed chastity and could not understand why anyone would not want to marry. It remains obvious and indisputable that marriage and children are worldly goods and a fitna see 6414-15. Moreover, our Lord has given detailed guidelines on who we can and cannot marry. If marriage were spiritually superior, in and of itself, He would not have given us these restrictions. As it stands the virginal state is superior to everything, except marriage to a believer. The sanctified marriage is righteous befor the Lord and so is that state of chastity that is done with taqwa.
It is not that being married and having children gives you points automatically, it is that what you go through forces you to change and become more conscious of God, if you want, and sometimes in spite of your not wanting to.
And, Hoppean, do not kid yourself that I have noticed you so much as to want to put any venom or whatever or do any of the wonders which you attribute to me. This I say as not to overwork yourself tryingo to put me down. I am down all by myself. So on that count you can make some better use of your energy an time and also spare some fits.
Salaam
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The word is yughniyahumu (Ghayn-Noon-Ya); and a better translation would be satisfied/content imo. Wehr's has as the first definition "to be free from want" "to not need". I think content/satisfied is more appropriate in this context, it's the IV entry in Wehr's.
So I take it is related to quran 424... which makes it clear that man is supposed to has the responsibility to provide for women.
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fftopic why get out our attention falsely for masturbation and the quran???
Anywho.. I married for love, I married the most righteous mate for myself. BELIEVING MEN ARE FOR BELIEVING WOMEN. We did not marry for the money, we met and we were both going through some rough times. We did not marry for looks, he had some skin problems(acne etc...) and I had a few extra pounds and scars. We kept each other going by our faith, beliefs, values and we have came up from almost nothing together. I am one of the lucky ones to have a wonderful mate.
BECAUSE masturbation is one of the results of where men are told to be chaste as well look at women... but as well as those who have little to do. I call this type of masturbation... inducing oneself to pleasure. We see this in the form of gangs, drugs, porn, all to get away from the boredom of not doing anything.
I myself know that when a man has no job, he becomes more sexually aggressive, demand more pleasure from his woman of whatever sorts.
You married for yourselves... we marry for the god.
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Starting with the topic, the qur'an did not talk about masturbation (solitary sex) - it is at our discretion.
I disagree, this verse is key to understanding masturbation, as well as the cause of masturbation, as well as the cures for those men who cannot find partners
The word is yughniyahumu (Ghayn-Noon-Ya); and a better translation would be satisfied/content imo. Wehr's has as the first definition "to be free from want" "to not need". I think content/satisfied is more appropriate in this context, it's the IV entry in Wehr's.
That's an interesting look.
"And as for those who are unable to marry, let them live in continence"
What I'm after is why M Asad translates walyastafifi as "and ....live in continence"
http//corpus.quran.com/wordmorphology.jsp?location=%2824337%29
Back to the "unable to marry" such as nikan, what is the requirement from the quran other than quran 424 that of responsibility to provide for women's needs?
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So "RA" believes that having more children merits you more grace from God, of course as he himself admitted, this is just his own personal opinion, with zero scriptual support. He also claimed that the life of chastity was "ridiculous", no one said married life was ridiculous though.
I actually did not say that....If you want to be technical. In fact this is just a Conclusion tha you yourself have come to.
Lets Look at my Quote again that you posted." I believe that When you Marry and have a Child, it is Probabily one of the Greatest Spiritual/Physical Rituals you can have partake in, and it will help get you to a Higher level in Spiritual Evolution."
I NEVER EVER EVER NEVER EVER Said that IT IS or that IT WILL....
I said that It is "PROBABILY ONE OF" and "HELP" Key word...."HELP" get you to a higher level of "SPIRITUAL EVOLUTION".To be even more technical for you..."SPIRITUAL EVOLUTION" is not the word "GRACE FROM GOD" that you have posted. I NEVER said It was GRACE FROM GOD....Rather I used the Phrase "Spiritual Evolution". NOT GRACE FROM GOD.
So to be Technical....You say users are Delusional yet....You yourself have proven that you Take what I write...and then RE-Make it according to your own view.
I NEVER said IT IS or WAS Grace from God.I used the Words Probabily, ONE OF, and Spiritual Evolution....(and Personal Opinion).
And I think you are Guilty of Generalizing....Because I DONT AND NEVER SAID that Chasity was Rediculous. I HAVE NOTHING against Chasity...Since Chasity is actually an Islamic Concept in the Quran. Rather I was speaking more about CELLEBACY...which is Remotly CLOSE to Chasity or contains Chasity however is NOT the EXACT same as CHASITY since CHASITY is a Broad Word with a Broad Meaning.
I DO NOT think CELLEBACY is Rediculous...RATHER, I said that CELLEBACY FOR INVALID REASONS is Consittered Rediculous in MY BELIEF.
KEY WORD INVALID. I think that ONLY INVALID REASONS for Cellebacy is Rediculous.
A VALID REASON for Cellebacy in my opinion would be a Severe Handicap. (as I stated before)...
JUST trying to clarify for you to avoid any further Confusion.
PEace/Salaam ;D D
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I actually did not say that....If you want to be technical. In fact this is just a Conclusion tha you yourself have come to. Lets Look at my Quote again that you posted.
" I believe that When you Marry and have a Child, it is Probabily one of the Greatest Spiritual/Physical Rituals you can have partake in, and it will help get you to a Higher level in Spiritual Evolution."
I NEVER EVER EVER NEVER EVER Said that IT IS or that IT WILL....
I said that It is "PROBABILY ONE OF" and "HELP" Key word...."HELP" get you to a higher level of "SPIRITUAL EVOLUTION".
To be even more technical for you..."SPIRITUAL EVOLUTION" is not the word "GRACE FROM GOD" that you have posted. I NEVER said It was GRACE FROM GOD....Rather I used the Phrase "Spiritual Evolution". NOT GRACE FROM GOD.
This is amazing dishonesty! You clearly describe marriage/having children as "probably one of the greatest spiritual/physical rituals". As in, "it might not be the greatest spiritual/physical ritual, but more than likely (probable) it is one of the greatest". Then you said "it will help get you to..." as in future indicative, not conditional. The use of the third person indicative future tense "it will help" without a conditional clause denotes certainty.
Moreover, in this context "spiritual evolution" can have no other meaning than God's grace; since it is God's grace alone that can allow one to believe and act righteously. Unless of course you mean spiritually "evolve" into a devil? What does "spiritual evolution" mean other than coming closer to God? You have conveniently failed to provide an alternative definition for "spiritual evolution" which would show that it has nothing to do with God's grace.So to be Technical....You say users are Delusional yet....You yourself have proven that you Take what I write...and then RE-Make it according to your own view.
I NEVER said IT IS or WAS Grace from God.I used the Words Probabily, ONE OF, and Spiritual Evolution....(and Personal Opinion).
Your words are clear for everyone to see. If you do not know how to express yourself in the proper tense then my apologies. You used "spiritual evolution" as a twisted metaphor for getting closer to God (and since I assumed you at least have some knowledge of sacred scripture, this closeness can only come by grace); or are you going to tell me that marriage and having children "spiritually evolve" you away from God?? Give me a break, why are you lying?
And I think you are Guilty of Generalizing....Because I DONT AND NEVER SAID that Chasity was Rediculous.
You said "It would seem rather rediculous NOT to marry someone." What does that imply? Clearly, if you're not married then you are chaste! There is no other justified state for a believer to be in. Since our Lord does not give believers the option of having casual sex, it is ipso facto chastity. You're saying if someone "chooses" not to marry, it is "ridiculous".
I HAVE NOTHING against Chasity...Since Chasity is actually an Islamic Concept in the Quran. Rather I was speaking more about CELLEBACY...which is Remotly CLOSE to Chasity or contains Chasity however is NOT the EXACT same as CHASITY since CHASITY is a Broad Word with a Broad Meaning.
To summarise You basically said it is "ridiculous" for someone to choose not to marry, except if they're handicap; all other reasons are to you "invalid". God does not say this! He gives clear instructions on who is, and who is not lawful for marriage, He says if we cannot find a spouse to remain satisfied, that is chaste. He says it is better to be patient/chaste than to marry in some cases, even though the marriage would be lawful. He tells us that family/children/wealth are worldly goods which are a fitna/trial. You are unable to deal with these passages. 2433 tells us to be satisfied/content outside of the marriage state, which is chastity. There is thus no difference between chastity and celibacy in this context; one chooses to be satisfied in the state of chastity, and one uses one's time to focus on more spiritual matters and to ignore temporal matters, such as marriage.
I DO NOT think CELLEBACY is Rediculous...RATHER, I said that CELLEBACY FOR INVALID REASONS is Consittered Rediculous in MY BELIEF.
KEY WORD INVALID. I think that ONLY INVALID REASONS for Cellebacy is Rediculous.
A VALID REASON for Cellebacy in my opinion would be a Severe Handicap. (as I stated before)...What's the difference?? You think celibacy is "ridiculous" unless you're handicapped somehow, our Lord says different. Since I disagreed, I provided you with scriptural based reasons why one might prefer celibacy. Your are unable to deal with scripture! There is no positive commandment enjoining one to desire marriage, thus a desire for chastity (that is celibacy) is not inferior in anyway. We have positive examples of this in Yahya (339) and Mary (2191, 6612); she is described as ahsanat farjaha (lit.guarding her private parts). It doesn't say she "guarded her private parts, but was desperately looking for a man to marry so she could have a family". Rather we're told she was more concerned with the life of prayer (1916).
JUST trying to clarify for you to avoid any further Confusion.
There never was any confusion. You said something with no scriptual basis and I refuted it. All you have to do is be honest and say "well I'm sticking to my opinion, no matter what" or "I will re-examine my personal beliefs in light of the scripture".