tattoos
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peace, who was it aimed at then?
look this is a saying "the boy makes problem but call his father to jail". when Aysha told me that you (me)gave them money for removing the tattoos, I said this saying to mean that he does the problem, so he solve it himself not calling others to take charges for him or to pay his own mistakes.
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Since my shahada I have still got tattooed, but Islamic ones, which you may feel is even worse! Such as Al Fatiha covering my whole back.
oh my God!! that's worse, fatiha in your back , what the hell is that ? you know that he is a bidh'a and every bidh'a with its maker in hell. take as read .
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the only person said nonsense is you
Could you please stop being rude and accusing everyone who disagrees with you of talking nonsense? That doesn't get us anywhere and just creates a hostile atmosphere. http//img337.imageshack.us/img337/3135/iconconfused.gif
I explained why I think the hadith in question can not really be applied. You disagree, fine, that's your right, but childish attacks are really uncalled for.
In any case -- as has been pointed out to you, people come to this forum in order to discuss things in relation to the Qur'an and to not have ahadeeth and fatawa thrown at them left and right, as is the case in so many other places. So we can skip the debate about how to interpret the hadith.
I've watched an american Muslim who used to have tattoos After Islam but when he got to be in Islam, he removed their tattoos and nothing happened to him, it's cost a hard money, but he will relief himself from being out of the community of Islam .
A person is not out of the fold of Islam because he has a tattoo. Even those who consider it a sin wouldn't go as far as declaring such a thing.
another reason from you to make tattoos? the hadith is clear , the verses are clear, so if you want to make following your desires, and you know what I mean , go look for a verse describe your case.
The only one following his desires here is you. Your desire is to show everyone else they are wrong, and you are using phrases without thinking, simply based on your prejudices and in order to attack people.
Have I said anywhere that I have a tattoo or would like to get one? No. So what makes you come to the conclusion that I am looking for "another reason" to get a tattoo? http//img337.imageshack.us/img337/3135/iconconfused.gif I see the argument that someone is "only following his own desires" and "wants to make things easier for himself" brought on so often in an attempt to shut people up and keep them from further inquiring things. That's not only wrong, it's an attempt at brainwashing.
It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it.
(Aristotle)I think some tattoos look great, but I don't have one myself and would never get one. I simply don't like the idea of doing something irreversal to my body.
As for whether it's forbidden or not -- I think that really depends on the personal understanding of 4119. I can see both options in there. But in any case, even if we were to conclude that it is forbidden, it is certainly not a "major sin" or something that puts people in the category of disbelievers.
That said, I find it very hypocritical that scholars and new converts are putting so much energy into discussing this subject at length (and eyebrow plucking, hair dyeing etc. pp.) while at the same time ignoring more pressing problems in relation to this verse. In various Muslim countries (and in Europe too) thousands of women are subjected to FGM which is a more than clear violation of 4119. Yet we hear some scholars defending it while at the same time banning tattoos and eyebrow plucking. Does this make any inkling of sense?!
hypno
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o wow imagine choosing Al Baqara o
http//img52.imageshack.us/img52/7389/rofln.gif
I think Arabic lends itself very well for usage in tattoos, and I find that very interesting from a designer's point of view. If I was to get a tattoo, I would want it to be very personal and create my own calligraphy. A band of type around the upper arm in Andalusian Maghribi script would also be cool.
yes
Never got a henna tattoo, maybe that would be something worth trying for a special occasion. http//foolstown.com/sm/rev.gifThere is a book about Arabic tattoos ... might be interesting for anyone thinking about getting one
http//www.markbattypublisher.com/images/ArabicCover.jpg
http//www.amazon.com/Arabic-Tattoos-Jon-Udelson/dp/0977985083
And a website on Arabic tattoos
http//arabictattoodesign.com/
Some literature about traditional Islamic calligraphy might also be great for inspiration. I have this book and highly recommend it to anyone interested in the subject. It's the best I've come across so far.
)http//i4.ebayimg.com/02/c/000/77/7a/1631_8.JPG
The Splendor of Islamic Calligraphy
http//www.amazon.com/Splendor-Islamic-Calligraphy-Abdelkebir-Khatibi/dp/0500016755
The Khatt Foundation, Center for Arabic Typography is a great resource for anyone interested in contemporary Arabic typography and calligraphy.
And ... slightly OT ... some of those wall tattoos are really nice. yes
http//www.halaltattoo.com/www/thumbs/10_kl.jpg
http//www.halaltattoo.com/www/thumbs/06_kl.jpg
http//www.halaltattoo.com/
Project Mulsaq The Khatt Design Collection of Wall Stickers
http//img5.imagebanana.com/img/vsr30zmr/70913575001.jpg http//img5.imagebanana.com/img/ne1298qi/7080326500.jpg
http//img5.imagebanana.com/img/83y2du6w/7106369500.jpghttp//img5.imagebanana.com/img/0fm6skn/7103500325.jpg
http//fast.mediamatic.nl/f/hmfm/image/028/8538-290-334.jpg
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Could you please stop being rude and accusing everyone who disagrees with you of talking nonsense? That doesn't get us anywhere and just creates a hostile atmosphere.
ah I forgot, I'm talking to an angel, you first said that my post was nonsense. I don't care if you disagree with me or not, because after all you say nothing.
I explained why I think the hadith in question can not really be applied. You disagree, fine, that's your right, but childish attacks are really uncalled for.
you attacked me first. by seeing this is nonsense, so next time read your posts before talking to me .
In any case -- as has been pointed out to you, people come to this forum in order to discuss things in relation to the Qur'an and to not have ahadeeth and fatawa thrown at them left and right, as is the case in so many other places. So we can skip the debate about how to interpret the hadith.
so your problem is ahadith, and what about taking a saying from a philosopher , is that ok ? yeah sure it's ok, because those are a sayings of a philosopher wich they are accepted and those are a sayings of the prophet wich they are not accepted, well done , what a crap.
A person is not out of the fold of Islam because he has a tattoo. Even those who consider it a sin wouldn't go as far as declaring such a thing.
I said the community of Islam>>>> read the post before posting.
The only one following his desires here is you. Your desire is to show everyone else they are wrong, and you are using phrases without thinking, simply based on your prejudices and in order to attack people.
aha, that's really strange, defending tattoos despites all the verses that I gave is not from your desires . whatever.Is this a new fatwa from Al-Azhar???!!!!!!
Have I said anywhere that I have a tattoo or would like to get one? No. So what makes you come to the conclusion that I am looking for "another reason" to get a tattoo? http//img337.imageshack.us/img337/3135/iconconfused.gif I see the argument that someone is "only following his own desires" and "wants to make things easier for himself" brought on so often in an attempt to shut people up and keep them from further inquiring things. That's not only wrong, it's an attempt at brainwashing.
you said it's ok tattos and you defend their situation, I didn't say that you want to get a tattoo, defending them will not make you different from them .
for the rest of the reply is a bla bla bla .It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it.
(Aristotle)I think this quote is for you .because I want to open your eyes yet you're screaming he will blow up my eyes.
I think some tattoos look great.
wondering your first question "what makes you come to that conclusion ? " ..
As for whether it's forbidden or not -- I think that really depends on the personal understanding of 4119. I can see both options in there. But in any case, even if we were to conclude that it is forbidden, it is certainly not a "major sin" or something that puts people in the category of disbelievers.
Oh My God !! what options? this is what you're doing "interpretting the verse by your desires "I can see both option"", you want to make things by your point of viewn, there is no options , you're not in a competition in choosing an option, the verse is clear and so the interpretation is clearrrrr
That said, I find it very hypocritical that scholars and new converts are putting so much energy into discussing this subject at length (and eyebrow plucking, hair dyeing etc. pp.) while at the same time ignoring more pressing problems in relation to this verse. In various Muslim countries (and in Europe too) thousands of women are subjected to FGM which is a more than clear violation of 4119. Yet we hear some scholars defending it while at the same time banning tattoos and eyebrow plucking. Does this make any inkling of sense?!
hypnoah I found your second problem, try to equal man and woman, you're not different from the woman that she demanded from the women's right to be an Imam in a mosque in usa and she succeed in that and she really did it, and she makes all the Muslims disgusting her.
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ah I forgot, I'm talking to an angel, you first said that my post was nonsense. I don't care if you disagree with me or not, because after all you say nothing.
you attacked me first. by seeing this is nonsense, so next time read your posts before talking to me .
so your problem is ahadith, and what about taking a saying from a philosopher , is that ok ? yeah sure it's ok, because those are a sayings of a philosopher wich they are accepted and those are a sayings of the prophet wich they are not accepted, well done , what a crap.
I said the community of Islam>>>> read the post before posting.aha, that's really strange, defending tattoos despites all the verses that I gave is not from your desires . whatever.Is this a new fatwa from Al-Azhar???!!!!!!
you said it's ok tattos and you defend their situation, I didn't say that you want to get a tattoo, defending them will not make you different from them .
for the rest of the reply is a bla bla bla .
I think this quote is for you .because I want to open your eyes yet you're screaming he will blow up my eyes.
wondering your first question "what makes you come to that conclusion ? " ..
Oh My God !! what options? this is what you're doing "interpretting the verse by your desires "I can see both option"", you want to make things by your point of viewn, there is no options , you're not in a competition in choosing an option, the verse is clear and so the interpretation is clearrrrrah I found your second problem, try to equal man and woman, you're not different from the woman that she demanded from the women's right to be an Imam in a mosque in usa and she succeed in that and she really did it, and she makes all the Muslims disgusting her.
blah blah blah blah blah zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
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ah I forgot, I'm talking to an angel,
Alhamdullilah you just remembered. http//img707.imageshack.us/img707/1633/engellieb.gif
you first said that my post was nonsense.
May I remind you of what you wrote
but after shahada , he must remove the tattoos.
if he is really want to be a good Muslim, money will not be a problem .
It is not up to you to decide that someone is "not a good Muslim" because he or she has a tattoo. Neither do you know other people's financial circumstances in order to decide whether removing existing tattoos will "not be a problem". You can't seriously be suggesting that someone who is working hard to keep his family alive and well but doesn't have a single penny to spare should invest a huge sum in getting tattoos removed?
Those are very serious accusations. That's what I referred to with "nonsense". You, on the other hand, declare each and everything that does not reflect your opinion as "nonsense" and the poster as "stupid", "misguided", "mentally disturbed", an "unbeliever" and so on. So please quit playing the victim of unfair rudeness.
nopeIs this a new fatwa from Al-Azhar???!!!!!!
Ah, a serious blow that will show how weak my argument is -- the reference to scholars and "scientists". How dare I have an opinion that's different to theirs ... I must be crazy, arrogant, or lead by shaytan.
http//www.clicksmilies.com/s1106/teufel/devil-smiley-003.gif
Sorry, bro, that argument doesn't work with me. It just makes me laugh when I think of some of the utterly crazy fatawa that have come out of Al Azhar in recent years.ah I found your second problem, try to equal man and woman, you're not different from the woman that she demanded from the women's right to be an Imam in a mosque in usa and she succeed in that and she really did it, and she makes all the Muslims disgusting her.
And now comes the deadly stroke -- a FEMINIST, someone who -- gasp -- believes in equal rights for men and women. Bring on the insults you are just waiting to spit out. We are frustrated, abused, hairy man-haters, too ugly to get a man, or Lesbian anyway. We want to castrate all male beings in this world and keep women from fulfilling their divinely ordained role in life -- serving her husband and children.
D
As for Amina Wadud -- I hold her in high respect, and saying that "all Muslims" are disgusted by her is silly, otherwise people wouldn't be attending her prayers and lectures and buy her books. "Qur'an and Woman" is excellent, btw., I highly recommend it to anyone.
yesBtw., I don't really understand what your last statement has to do with my posting. It seems to me you are trying to distract from the issue of FGM that I raised. Otherwise I do not understand how your brain is jumping from "FGM is a much bigger sin than eyebrow plucking or tattoos" to "ah, your problem is that you want men and women to be equal".
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Alhamdullilah you just remembered.
ah , I didn't complete my sentence "Dark Angel". rotfl
May I remind you of what you wrote
but after shahada , he must remove the tattoos.
if he is really want to be a good Muslim, money will not be a problem .I show him the right thing, he can leave them or he can take them . so it is not a fatwa or whatever you call it.
It is not up to you to decide that someone is "not a good Muslim" because he or she has a tattoo.
I didn't decide anything, you assumed that I did, look at the sentence (condition if). as I see you have said before that you're good in english.
Neither do you know other people's financial circumstances in order to decide whether removing existing tattoos will "not be a problem". You can't seriously be suggesting that someone who is working hard to keep his family alive and well but doesn't have a single penny to spare should invest a huge sum in getting tattoos removed?
I didn't force him to go remove his tattoos, I've just told him the way that he must take, if he can't be financialy ok , fine .
Those are very serious accusations. That's what I referred to with "nonsense". You, on the other hand, declare each and everything that does not reflect your opinion as "nonsense" and the poster as "stupid", "misguided", "mentally disturbed", an "unbeliever" and so on
None of what you said is right, again you're assuming, I'm just giving my opinion, you can take it or you can leave it, I didn't force you to take it and I didn't definitely tell you to hold it. I'm just making a point of view wich is showed how your arguments and yours posts are useless. I can't even take one from yours, look at the bright side you have been ok with many things I've said. welcome
Ah, a serious blow that will show how weak my argument is -- the reference to scholars and "scientists". How dare I have an opinion that's different to theirs ... I must be crazy, arrogant, or lead by shaytan.
http//www.clicksmilies.com/s1106/teufel/devil-smiley-003.gif
Sorry, bro, that argument doesn't work with me. It just makes me laugh when I think of some of the utterly crazy fatawa that have come out of Al Azhar in recent years.well, don't forget your Fatwa about tattoos, it makes me laugh more than any Fatwa from Al-Azhar I've ever read or heard.
And now comes the deadly stroke -- a FEMINIST, someone who -- gasp -- believes in equal rights for men and women. Bring on the insults you are just waiting to spit out. We are frustrated, abused, hairy man-haters, too ugly to get a man, or Lesbian anyway. We want to castrate all male beings in this world and keep women from fulfilling their divinely ordained role in life -- serving her husband and children.
what are you talking about ? oh you're in pain , sorry sister , I may be dig deep '( . I didn't mean that I've my sisters and they are ok in their lives, they know that they are not men neither they will be , look at yourself .
As for Amina Wadud -- I hold her in high respect, and saying that "all Muslims" are disgusted by her is silly, otherwise people wouldn't be attending her prayers and lectures and buy her books. "Qur'an and Woman" is excellent, btw., I highly recommend it to anyone.
ok, Hold her, she will lead you to the right place.
yesBtw., I don't really understand what your last statement has to do with my posting. It seems to me you are trying to distract from the issue of FGM that I raised. Otherwise I do not understand how your brain is jumping from "FGM is a much bigger sin than eyebrow plucking or tattoos" to "ah, your problem is that you want men and women to be equal".
???No, I'm not in talking with you about this thing because after all, you'll reject everything I will say , so what's the point of alking to you?
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well, don't forget your Fatwa about tattoos, it makes me laugh more than any Fatwa from Al-Azhar I've ever read or heard.
More than the breastfeeding fatwa?! rotfl
No, I'm not in talking with you about this thing because after all, you'll reject everything I will say , so what's the point of alking to you?
You completely misunderstood my posting. nope
My point was not to raise a debate about FGM. My point was to bring attention to the fact that there are scholars who issues fatawa about tattooing and eyebrow plucking and hair dyeing being haram, but propagate FGM at the same time. That is hypocritical. You can not refer to 4119 in regards to one thing (i.e. tattoos, eyebrow plucking) and ignore it in another, much more serious case (female circumcision / FGM).
So how in the world can I trust such a scholar on advice in this matter? nope
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Thereformer1, who's 'taking charges' for me? You make no sense! I'm just asking for opinions & views on tattoos in Islam, I don't want or need any help to remove them because I've gone beyond that stage & there is no mention of them in the Qur'an which is what I follow to the best of my abilities. I know about the man-made Sunni views & opinions regarding tattooing & other so-called haram things, which is one of the manty reasons why I visit this site. Why are you here? Who are you to tell someone they're going to Hell? Who do you think you are? Where will you be going then Thereformer1? Should I tear the skin from my body, grow a long beard, trim my tash, wear ankle-swingers, get rid of my dog, divorce my wife if she doesn't convert to Islam, circumcise my kids & raise them as Muslim in a Muslim school etc.?
Answers please Thereformer1 seeing as you think you have them all. -
More than the breastfeeding fatwa?! rotfl
I'm not interseted in any kind of Fatwa. the real Fatwa I can really read it is must be under the Akidah other than that, people can ask silly questions and they got silly fatwa , why do you expect from a silly question? sure a silly answer.
You completely misunderstood my posting. nope
My point was not to raise a debate about FGM. My point was to bring attention to the fact that there are scholars who issues fatawa about tattooing and eyebrow plucking and hair dyeing being haram, but propagate FGM at the same time. That is hypocritical. You can not refer to 4119 in regards to one thing (i.e. tattoos, eyebrow plucking) and ignore it in another, much more serious case (female circumcision / FGM).
So how in the world can I trust such a scholar on advice in this matter? nopefirst of all, you have to know the difference between change God's creation, and something from instinct "fitrah" .
about tattoos and eyebrow plucking , I have gave you the verse, and I have explained it, you don't like what I said, fine , do whatever you want but know that I delievered the message and done.
about female circumision is for a reason and you can look in google for this reason and I said to Ayisha that it is not an obligation for female .
one more thing no one forced you to take what scholars said, but before rejecting it try to know why they said that and for what reason and from where they justified the validity of this thing. -
I show him the right thing, he can leave them or he can take them . so it is not a fatwa or whatever you call it.
I've just told him the way that he must take,
I'm just giving my opinion, you can take it or you can leave it,
I'm just making a point of view
well, don't forget your Fatwa about tattoos, it makes me laugh more than any Fatwa from Al-Azhar I've ever read or heard.lets look at your fatwa
"but after shahada , he must remove the tattoos"
"if he is really want to be a good Muslim, money will not be a problem . "
So you are issuing this fatwa whether you call it that or not. You say its 'your opinion' but when anyone else gives an opinion you call it a fatwa. You are also implying this man is NOT a good muslim unless he removes his tatoos! -
I'm not interseted in any kind of Fatwa. the real Fatwa I can really read it is must be under the Akidah other than that, people can ask silly questions and they got silly fatwa , why do you expect from a silly question? sure a silly answer.
first of all, you have to know the difference between change God's creation, and something from instinct "fitrah" .
about tattoos and eyebrow plucking , I have gave you the verse, and I have explained it, you don't like what I said, fine , do whatever you want but know that I delievered the message and done.
about female circumision is for a reason and you can look in google for this reason and I said to Ayisha that it is not an obligation for female .
one more thing no one forced you to take what scholars said, but before rejecting it try to know why they said that and for what reason and from where they justified the validity of this thing.If chopping bits off God's creation isnt changin it then I dont know what is!!
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about female circumision is for a reason and you can look in google for this reason
There is no reason whatsoever for female circumcision. And I don't need to google it, thank you very much. I've done extensive research on the subject since I happen to live in a country where countless girls and women are subjected to this on a daily basis.
I said to Ayisha that it is not an obligation for female .
Wrong. It is not only "not an obligation", it is haram. Doing this to someone is doing irreversible harm to God's creation, it is a serious sin and crime. That's what those scholars, who claim it is allowed or recommended, are committing.
http//img534.imageshack.us/img534/7766/033102bad1prv.gifhttp//img534.imageshack.us/img534/7766/033102bad1prv.gifhttp//img534.imageshack.us/img534/7766/033102bad1prv.gif
one more thing no one forced you to take what scholars said, but before rejecting it try to know why they said that and for what reason and from where they justified the validity of this thing.
Please stop belittling me. I have not said anywhere that I don't know what scholars say and how they justify their views. That is a mere assumption on which you base another attack.
I never reject anything before studying it thoroughly, I thought that should have been obvious since I stated it several times. So I am in no need of your advice. If you had read my posts properly instead of just scanning them for things to pick on, you would have known that.
If I disagree with something in a scholarly text or a fatwa, I have clear reasons to do so based on examining it using my brain, heart, common sense, and life experience. Which is exactly what the Qur'an tells us to do.
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Thereformer1, who's 'taking charges' for me?
God.
why I visit this site. Why are you here?
you visit this website to find answers for your questions(sorry to say that "silly questions".
I'm here to give you answers (you can take them silly answers if you want, but be honest with yourself if they are really silly).
Who are you to tell someone they're going to Hell?
I didn't tell anybody that he will go to Hell, God knows. I'm just giving you the verse that said that this act can lead to Hell.
Who do you think you are?
Benefactor or a good friend.
Where will you be going then Thereformer1?
I don't know. do you have any idea for me ?
Should I tear the skin from my body, grow a long beard, trim my tash, wear ankle-swingers, get rid of my dog, divorce my wife if she doesn't convert to Islam, circumcise my kids & raise them as Muslim in a Muslim school etc.?
Answers please Thereformer1 seeing as you think you have them all.these things that you have mentioned are up to you, what you have stated are from fitrah "the instinct", so my opinion about rejecting them is a sin or a guilt. so as I before said to other members take my opinion or leave it .
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I'm not interseted in any kind of Fatwa. the real Fatwa I can really read it is must be under the Akidah other than that, people can ask silly questions and they got silly fatwa , why do you expect from a silly question? sure a silly answer.
first of all, you have to know the difference between change God's creation, and something from instinct "fitrah" .
about tattoos and eyebrow plucking , I have gave you the verse, and I have explained it, you don't like what I said, fine , do whatever you want but know that I delievered the message and done.
about female circumision is for a reason and you can look in google for this reason and I said to Ayisha that it is not an obligation for female .
one more thing no one forced you to take what scholars said, but before rejecting it try to know why they said that and for what reason and from where they justified the validity of this thing.when did God make you a messenger? o
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you visit this website to find answers for your questions(sorry to say that "silly questions".
I'm here to give you answers (you can take them silly answers if you want, but be honest with yourself if they are really silly).
There are no silly questions, only silly answers, mostly coming from you
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lets look at your fatwa
"but after shahada , he must remove the tattoos"
"if he is really want to be a good Muslim, money will not be a problem . "
So you are issuing this fatwa whether you call it that or not. You say its 'your opinion' but when anyone else gives an opinion you call it a fatwa. You are also implying this man is NOT a good muslim unless he removes his tatoos!I didn't imply anything ... I used "if" . and one more thing fatwa is with rules and no one dares to give one without a very deep studies because the maker of fatwa between him and hell nothing, so he must be careful .