tattoos
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ah I forgot, I'm talking to an angel, you first said that my post was nonsense. I don't care if you disagree with me or not, because after all you say nothing.
you attacked me first. by seeing this is nonsense, so next time read your posts before talking to me .
so your problem is ahadith, and what about taking a saying from a philosopher , is that ok ? yeah sure it's ok, because those are a sayings of a philosopher wich they are accepted and those are a sayings of the prophet wich they are not accepted, well done , what a crap.
I said the community of Islam>>>> read the post before posting.aha, that's really strange, defending tattoos despites all the verses that I gave is not from your desires . whatever.Is this a new fatwa from Al-Azhar???!!!!!!
you said it's ok tattos and you defend their situation, I didn't say that you want to get a tattoo, defending them will not make you different from them .
for the rest of the reply is a bla bla bla .
I think this quote is for you .because I want to open your eyes yet you're screaming he will blow up my eyes.
wondering your first question "what makes you come to that conclusion ? " ..
Oh My God !! what options? this is what you're doing "interpretting the verse by your desires "I can see both option"", you want to make things by your point of viewn, there is no options , you're not in a competition in choosing an option, the verse is clear and so the interpretation is clearrrrrah I found your second problem, try to equal man and woman, you're not different from the woman that she demanded from the women's right to be an Imam in a mosque in usa and she succeed in that and she really did it, and she makes all the Muslims disgusting her.
blah blah blah blah blah zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
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ah I forgot, I'm talking to an angel,
Alhamdullilah you just remembered. http//img707.imageshack.us/img707/1633/engellieb.gif
you first said that my post was nonsense.
May I remind you of what you wrote
but after shahada , he must remove the tattoos.
if he is really want to be a good Muslim, money will not be a problem .
It is not up to you to decide that someone is "not a good Muslim" because he or she has a tattoo. Neither do you know other people's financial circumstances in order to decide whether removing existing tattoos will "not be a problem". You can't seriously be suggesting that someone who is working hard to keep his family alive and well but doesn't have a single penny to spare should invest a huge sum in getting tattoos removed?
Those are very serious accusations. That's what I referred to with "nonsense". You, on the other hand, declare each and everything that does not reflect your opinion as "nonsense" and the poster as "stupid", "misguided", "mentally disturbed", an "unbeliever" and so on. So please quit playing the victim of unfair rudeness.
nopeIs this a new fatwa from Al-Azhar???!!!!!!
Ah, a serious blow that will show how weak my argument is -- the reference to scholars and "scientists". How dare I have an opinion that's different to theirs ... I must be crazy, arrogant, or lead by shaytan.
http//www.clicksmilies.com/s1106/teufel/devil-smiley-003.gif
Sorry, bro, that argument doesn't work with me. It just makes me laugh when I think of some of the utterly crazy fatawa that have come out of Al Azhar in recent years.ah I found your second problem, try to equal man and woman, you're not different from the woman that she demanded from the women's right to be an Imam in a mosque in usa and she succeed in that and she really did it, and she makes all the Muslims disgusting her.
And now comes the deadly stroke -- a FEMINIST, someone who -- gasp -- believes in equal rights for men and women. Bring on the insults you are just waiting to spit out. We are frustrated, abused, hairy man-haters, too ugly to get a man, or Lesbian anyway. We want to castrate all male beings in this world and keep women from fulfilling their divinely ordained role in life -- serving her husband and children.
D
As for Amina Wadud -- I hold her in high respect, and saying that "all Muslims" are disgusted by her is silly, otherwise people wouldn't be attending her prayers and lectures and buy her books. "Qur'an and Woman" is excellent, btw., I highly recommend it to anyone.
yesBtw., I don't really understand what your last statement has to do with my posting. It seems to me you are trying to distract from the issue of FGM that I raised. Otherwise I do not understand how your brain is jumping from "FGM is a much bigger sin than eyebrow plucking or tattoos" to "ah, your problem is that you want men and women to be equal".
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Alhamdullilah you just remembered.
ah , I didn't complete my sentence "Dark Angel". rotfl
May I remind you of what you wrote
but after shahada , he must remove the tattoos.
if he is really want to be a good Muslim, money will not be a problem .I show him the right thing, he can leave them or he can take them . so it is not a fatwa or whatever you call it.
It is not up to you to decide that someone is "not a good Muslim" because he or she has a tattoo.
I didn't decide anything, you assumed that I did, look at the sentence (condition if). as I see you have said before that you're good in english.
Neither do you know other people's financial circumstances in order to decide whether removing existing tattoos will "not be a problem". You can't seriously be suggesting that someone who is working hard to keep his family alive and well but doesn't have a single penny to spare should invest a huge sum in getting tattoos removed?
I didn't force him to go remove his tattoos, I've just told him the way that he must take, if he can't be financialy ok , fine .
Those are very serious accusations. That's what I referred to with "nonsense". You, on the other hand, declare each and everything that does not reflect your opinion as "nonsense" and the poster as "stupid", "misguided", "mentally disturbed", an "unbeliever" and so on
None of what you said is right, again you're assuming, I'm just giving my opinion, you can take it or you can leave it, I didn't force you to take it and I didn't definitely tell you to hold it. I'm just making a point of view wich is showed how your arguments and yours posts are useless. I can't even take one from yours, look at the bright side you have been ok with many things I've said. welcome
Ah, a serious blow that will show how weak my argument is -- the reference to scholars and "scientists". How dare I have an opinion that's different to theirs ... I must be crazy, arrogant, or lead by shaytan.
http//www.clicksmilies.com/s1106/teufel/devil-smiley-003.gif
Sorry, bro, that argument doesn't work with me. It just makes me laugh when I think of some of the utterly crazy fatawa that have come out of Al Azhar in recent years.well, don't forget your Fatwa about tattoos, it makes me laugh more than any Fatwa from Al-Azhar I've ever read or heard.
And now comes the deadly stroke -- a FEMINIST, someone who -- gasp -- believes in equal rights for men and women. Bring on the insults you are just waiting to spit out. We are frustrated, abused, hairy man-haters, too ugly to get a man, or Lesbian anyway. We want to castrate all male beings in this world and keep women from fulfilling their divinely ordained role in life -- serving her husband and children.
what are you talking about ? oh you're in pain , sorry sister , I may be dig deep '( . I didn't mean that I've my sisters and they are ok in their lives, they know that they are not men neither they will be , look at yourself .
As for Amina Wadud -- I hold her in high respect, and saying that "all Muslims" are disgusted by her is silly, otherwise people wouldn't be attending her prayers and lectures and buy her books. "Qur'an and Woman" is excellent, btw., I highly recommend it to anyone.
ok, Hold her, she will lead you to the right place.
yesBtw., I don't really understand what your last statement has to do with my posting. It seems to me you are trying to distract from the issue of FGM that I raised. Otherwise I do not understand how your brain is jumping from "FGM is a much bigger sin than eyebrow plucking or tattoos" to "ah, your problem is that you want men and women to be equal".
???No, I'm not in talking with you about this thing because after all, you'll reject everything I will say , so what's the point of alking to you?
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well, don't forget your Fatwa about tattoos, it makes me laugh more than any Fatwa from Al-Azhar I've ever read or heard.
More than the breastfeeding fatwa?! rotfl
No, I'm not in talking with you about this thing because after all, you'll reject everything I will say , so what's the point of alking to you?
You completely misunderstood my posting. nope
My point was not to raise a debate about FGM. My point was to bring attention to the fact that there are scholars who issues fatawa about tattooing and eyebrow plucking and hair dyeing being haram, but propagate FGM at the same time. That is hypocritical. You can not refer to 4119 in regards to one thing (i.e. tattoos, eyebrow plucking) and ignore it in another, much more serious case (female circumcision / FGM).
So how in the world can I trust such a scholar on advice in this matter? nope
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Thereformer1, who's 'taking charges' for me? You make no sense! I'm just asking for opinions & views on tattoos in Islam, I don't want or need any help to remove them because I've gone beyond that stage & there is no mention of them in the Qur'an which is what I follow to the best of my abilities. I know about the man-made Sunni views & opinions regarding tattooing & other so-called haram things, which is one of the manty reasons why I visit this site. Why are you here? Who are you to tell someone they're going to Hell? Who do you think you are? Where will you be going then Thereformer1? Should I tear the skin from my body, grow a long beard, trim my tash, wear ankle-swingers, get rid of my dog, divorce my wife if she doesn't convert to Islam, circumcise my kids & raise them as Muslim in a Muslim school etc.?
Answers please Thereformer1 seeing as you think you have them all. -
More than the breastfeeding fatwa?! rotfl
I'm not interseted in any kind of Fatwa. the real Fatwa I can really read it is must be under the Akidah other than that, people can ask silly questions and they got silly fatwa , why do you expect from a silly question? sure a silly answer.
You completely misunderstood my posting. nope
My point was not to raise a debate about FGM. My point was to bring attention to the fact that there are scholars who issues fatawa about tattooing and eyebrow plucking and hair dyeing being haram, but propagate FGM at the same time. That is hypocritical. You can not refer to 4119 in regards to one thing (i.e. tattoos, eyebrow plucking) and ignore it in another, much more serious case (female circumcision / FGM).
So how in the world can I trust such a scholar on advice in this matter? nopefirst of all, you have to know the difference between change God's creation, and something from instinct "fitrah" .
about tattoos and eyebrow plucking , I have gave you the verse, and I have explained it, you don't like what I said, fine , do whatever you want but know that I delievered the message and done.
about female circumision is for a reason and you can look in google for this reason and I said to Ayisha that it is not an obligation for female .
one more thing no one forced you to take what scholars said, but before rejecting it try to know why they said that and for what reason and from where they justified the validity of this thing. -
I show him the right thing, he can leave them or he can take them . so it is not a fatwa or whatever you call it.
I've just told him the way that he must take,
I'm just giving my opinion, you can take it or you can leave it,
I'm just making a point of view
well, don't forget your Fatwa about tattoos, it makes me laugh more than any Fatwa from Al-Azhar I've ever read or heard.lets look at your fatwa
"but after shahada , he must remove the tattoos"
"if he is really want to be a good Muslim, money will not be a problem . "
So you are issuing this fatwa whether you call it that or not. You say its 'your opinion' but when anyone else gives an opinion you call it a fatwa. You are also implying this man is NOT a good muslim unless he removes his tatoos! -
I'm not interseted in any kind of Fatwa. the real Fatwa I can really read it is must be under the Akidah other than that, people can ask silly questions and they got silly fatwa , why do you expect from a silly question? sure a silly answer.
first of all, you have to know the difference between change God's creation, and something from instinct "fitrah" .
about tattoos and eyebrow plucking , I have gave you the verse, and I have explained it, you don't like what I said, fine , do whatever you want but know that I delievered the message and done.
about female circumision is for a reason and you can look in google for this reason and I said to Ayisha that it is not an obligation for female .
one more thing no one forced you to take what scholars said, but before rejecting it try to know why they said that and for what reason and from where they justified the validity of this thing.If chopping bits off God's creation isnt changin it then I dont know what is!!
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about female circumision is for a reason and you can look in google for this reason
There is no reason whatsoever for female circumcision. And I don't need to google it, thank you very much. I've done extensive research on the subject since I happen to live in a country where countless girls and women are subjected to this on a daily basis.
I said to Ayisha that it is not an obligation for female .
Wrong. It is not only "not an obligation", it is haram. Doing this to someone is doing irreversible harm to God's creation, it is a serious sin and crime. That's what those scholars, who claim it is allowed or recommended, are committing.
http//img534.imageshack.us/img534/7766/033102bad1prv.gifhttp//img534.imageshack.us/img534/7766/033102bad1prv.gifhttp//img534.imageshack.us/img534/7766/033102bad1prv.gif
one more thing no one forced you to take what scholars said, but before rejecting it try to know why they said that and for what reason and from where they justified the validity of this thing.
Please stop belittling me. I have not said anywhere that I don't know what scholars say and how they justify their views. That is a mere assumption on which you base another attack.
I never reject anything before studying it thoroughly, I thought that should have been obvious since I stated it several times. So I am in no need of your advice. If you had read my posts properly instead of just scanning them for things to pick on, you would have known that.
If I disagree with something in a scholarly text or a fatwa, I have clear reasons to do so based on examining it using my brain, heart, common sense, and life experience. Which is exactly what the Qur'an tells us to do.
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Thereformer1, who's 'taking charges' for me?
God.
why I visit this site. Why are you here?
you visit this website to find answers for your questions(sorry to say that "silly questions".
I'm here to give you answers (you can take them silly answers if you want, but be honest with yourself if they are really silly).
Who are you to tell someone they're going to Hell?
I didn't tell anybody that he will go to Hell, God knows. I'm just giving you the verse that said that this act can lead to Hell.
Who do you think you are?
Benefactor or a good friend.
Where will you be going then Thereformer1?
I don't know. do you have any idea for me ?
Should I tear the skin from my body, grow a long beard, trim my tash, wear ankle-swingers, get rid of my dog, divorce my wife if she doesn't convert to Islam, circumcise my kids & raise them as Muslim in a Muslim school etc.?
Answers please Thereformer1 seeing as you think you have them all.these things that you have mentioned are up to you, what you have stated are from fitrah "the instinct", so my opinion about rejecting them is a sin or a guilt. so as I before said to other members take my opinion or leave it .
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I'm not interseted in any kind of Fatwa. the real Fatwa I can really read it is must be under the Akidah other than that, people can ask silly questions and they got silly fatwa , why do you expect from a silly question? sure a silly answer.
first of all, you have to know the difference between change God's creation, and something from instinct "fitrah" .
about tattoos and eyebrow plucking , I have gave you the verse, and I have explained it, you don't like what I said, fine , do whatever you want but know that I delievered the message and done.
about female circumision is for a reason and you can look in google for this reason and I said to Ayisha that it is not an obligation for female .
one more thing no one forced you to take what scholars said, but before rejecting it try to know why they said that and for what reason and from where they justified the validity of this thing.when did God make you a messenger? o
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you visit this website to find answers for your questions(sorry to say that "silly questions".
I'm here to give you answers (you can take them silly answers if you want, but be honest with yourself if they are really silly).
There are no silly questions, only silly answers, mostly coming from you
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lets look at your fatwa
"but after shahada , he must remove the tattoos"
"if he is really want to be a good Muslim, money will not be a problem . "
So you are issuing this fatwa whether you call it that or not. You say its 'your opinion' but when anyone else gives an opinion you call it a fatwa. You are also implying this man is NOT a good muslim unless he removes his tatoos!I didn't imply anything ... I used "if" . and one more thing fatwa is with rules and no one dares to give one without a very deep studies because the maker of fatwa between him and hell nothing, so he must be careful .
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I didn't imply anything ... I used "if" . and one more thing fatwa is with rules and no one dares to give one without a very deep studies because the maker of fatwa between him and hell nothing, so he must be careful .
IF he wants to be a good Muslim, implies that IF he doesnt do as you say then he is NOT a good Muslim.
So your opinion is your opinion based on.......whatever...... but anyone else gives an opinion based on studying and thinking you call that a fatwa?
ok I got it now.
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There is no reason whatsoever for female circumcision. And I don't need to google it, thank you very much. I've done extensive research on the subject since I happen to live in a country where countless girls and women are subjected to this on a daily basis.
My country didn't circumise girls, but where you live "Egype" is for a reason (heat and lot of girls as they said ), so this subject is closed, do whatever you want .
Wrong. It is not only "not an obligation", it is haram. Doing this to someone is doing irreversible harm to God's creation, it is a serious sin and crime. That's what those scholars, who claim it is allowed or recommended, are committing.
I've seen that you're angry about those scholars , can you give their names to see their validity ?
Please stop belittling me. I have not said anywhere that I don't know what scholars say and how they justify their views. That is a mere assumption on which you base another attack.
I never reject anything before studying it thoroughly, I thought that should have been obvious since I stated it several times. So I am in no need of your advice. If you had read my posts properly instead of just scanning them for things to pick on, you would have known that.
If I disagree with something in a scholarly text or a fatwa, I have clear reasons to do so based on examining it using my brain, heart, common sense, and life experience. Which is exactly what the Qur'an tells us to do.first of all I reply all your post , I didn't pick on.
second of all maybe you use your mind and your heart but common sense I don't think so. and I'm wondering what do you meann by life experience ? -
when did God make you a messenger?
hahahahaha. well I think you have a lot of problems one of them is your lack of understanding .
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There are no silly questions, only silly answers, mostly coming from you
yeah get real Miss.tattoo
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IF he wants to be a good Muslim, implies that IF he doesnt do as you say then he is NOT a good Muslim.
So your opinion is your opinion based on.......whatever...... but anyone else gives an opinion based on studying and thinking you call that a fatwa?
ok I got it now.You got nothing >>>>>>>> keep barking the wrong tree.
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My country didn't circumise girls, but where you live "Egype" is for a reason (heat and lot of girls as they said ), so this subject is closed, do whatever you want .
Dear Lord, are you for real?!?
So according to you, "heat and a lot of girls" is a "reason" to mutilate girls and physically as well as emotionally scar them for life? What in the world makes you think that women living in warm countries should have their private parts cut off? This is plain lunacy and clearly against science and religion.
What the number of girls living in a country has to do with the need to circumcise them is beyond my imagination. But by now I am not shocked anymore by the ridiculous and utterly bizarre arguments people will bring on in order to defend this barbaric practice.
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I've seen that you're angry about those scholars , can you give their names to see their validity ?
No. If you want to debate particular scholars, I suggest you open a thread in the appropriate section.
and your heart but common sense I don't think so. and I'm wondering what do you meann by life experience ?
Very simple. We don't live in a cocoon, each one of us makes experiences, learns, interacts with people, observes things and so on. We grow in knowledge and spirituality over the years. So we need to take those observations into regard when evaluating something -- be it a fatwa or anything else. If I see or read someone saying something that I can clearly prove wrong by my own observations, then it is not only justified but my duty to not follow this person or their advice. Religion does not exist in a vacuum detached from the real world.