The Quran, a Message for the medeival Arabs alone?
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The Quran, a Message for the Arabs alone?
I have read the message of the Quran from cover to cover, analyzed them, and I have a general idea of what the God wants to convey. Monotheism and good deeds. The Quran also prescribes a very practical Way on how to conduct yourself and how to run a community, except for a few teachings that I cannot seem to agree on, like the prohibition to eat pork, the requirement of two female witnesses for financial transactions and polygamy. Regarding pork, some scientists have found that beef is actually less healthy than pork because of the fat that is embedded within the muscle tissue, making it hard to remove. Pork fat is easier to remove. Are the Arabs actually healthier than the pork eating world? Why do we need two female witnesses in the absence of a male witness? No matter how I look at it, I cannot see the wisdom behind it. Polygamy, well, just try marrying another woman while you are still married with one, and see all hell break loose no matter how noble your intentions are. Besides those, I love the Quran, and its a pity that the message is hidden behind the corruption of religion. More people could have benefited from it.
But the question is Was the Quran sent for the Arabs alone?
26198 And had We sent it down upon some of the foreigners,
26199 And he read it to them, they would not have believed in it.144 And We have not sent any messenger except in the language of his people, so he may clarify for them. But God misguides whom He wills, and He guides whom He wills. And He is the Noble, the Wise.
From the above verse, the answer is clear. Yes, the Quran was sent for the Arabs alone (for them) - specifically to the people who speak the Quranic dialect. We are not the Messenger's people for we don't speak his language.
With that said, are we, the non-Arab population, bound by its commandments?
And who is the messenger of my nation?
1047 And for every nation is a messenger; so when their messenger comes, the matter is decreed between them with justice, and they are not wronged.
I'm not an Arab (Muhammad), a Hindu (Gautama Buddha), or an Israeli (Jesus). I am a Filipino. Who is our messenger who will convey or has conveyed a message CLEARLY in our tongue?
I even suspect that the commandments in it are bound by time because it's not even perfectly clear to the present-day Arabs.
I hope we don't hear God tell us during Judgement Day, "THAT'S NOT WHAT I MEANT!" because everybody argues about the meaning of verses. nope
The more I learn, the more questions pop in my head.
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Peace Tony
Breifly speaking,the central message conveyed by the quran is monotheism based on which all forms of good deeds emanate. This definitely is not bound by time and not ment for arabs. It is an invitation for mankind generally.
However, the immediate recepien of the message are arab. It is just natural that for this, it is revealed in their languge and of course some specific injuntions are stated taking into consideration their peculier situation but then with general application.
Actually, languages wise some issues can be said to be meant for the arabs alone but careful attention to the meaning may reveal otherwise.
Note that arabic, a human language just like any other language is not perfect. It is limited and the mesasage of unlimited in meaning is conveyed in it.
However, this constraint is taken care of when the whole message is considered.
Regarding the specific issues like swine, witness by female, polygamy,among others mentioned in your post, I need to take my time to express my understanding about them.
THINK ABOUT IT
ZUBAIRUS.
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The Quran, a Message for the Arabs alone?
I have read the message of the Quran from cover to cover, analyzed them, and I have a general idea of what the God wants to convey. Monotheism and good deeds. The Quran also prescribes a very practical Way on how to conduct yourself and how to run a community, except for a few teachings that I cannot seem to agree on, like the prohibition to eat pork, the requirement of two female witnesses for financial transactions and polygamy. Regarding pork, some scientists have found that beef is actually less healthy than pork because of the fat that is embedded within the muscle tissue, making it hard to remove. Pork fat is easier to remove. Are the Arabs actually healthier than the pork eating world? Why do we need two female witnesses in the absence of a male witness? No matter how I look at it, I cannot see the wisdom behind it. Polygamy, well, just try marrying another woman while you are still married with one, and see all hell break loose no matter how noble your intentions are. Besides those, I love the Quran, and its a pity that the message is hidden behind the corruption of religion. More people could have benefited from it.
But the question is Was the Quran sent for the Arabs alone?
26198 And had We sent it down upon some of the foreigners,
26199 And he read it to them, they would not have believed in it.144 And We have not sent any messenger except in the language of his people, so he may clarify for them. But God misguides whom He wills, and He guides whom He wills. And He is the Noble, the Wise.
From the above verse, the answer is clear. Yes, the Quran was sent for the Arabs alone (for them) - specifically to the people who speak the Quranic dialect. We are not the Messenger's people for we don't speak his language.
With that said, are we, the non-Arab population, bound by its commandments?
And who is the messenger of my nation?
1047 And for every nation is a messenger; so when their messenger comes, the matter is decreed between them with justice, and they are not wronged.
I'm not an Arab (Muhammad), a Hindu (Gautama Buddha), or an Israeli (Jesus). I am a Filipino. Who is our messenger who will convey or has conveyed a message CLEARLY in our tongue?
I even suspect that the commandments in it are bound by time because it's not even perfectly clear to the present-day Arabs.
I hope we don't hear God tell us during Judgement Day, "THAT'S NOT WHAT I MEANT!" because everybody argues about the meaning of verses. nope
The more I learn, the more questions pop in my head.
Muhammad sent for all nations/beings Surah 3108, 690, 12104, 21107, 251, 3887, 6852, 8127, 3428, 7158, 3340, 4170, 4733, 480, 619, 21107, 479-80
Muhammad was the Messenger of the Covenant Surah 381, 4252, 548, 241, 289, 291, 2101, 303, 692Make no distinction between Prophets Surah 2136, 2285, 384, 4150
Peace be unto all Allah?s Prophets Surah 2759The Quran is the Book, the Wisdom, complete and fully detailed Surah 1854, 331, 1037, 311-6, 2530,111, 413, 4144, 6114, 752, 12111, 1689
?And certainly We have explained in this Quran every kind of example, and man is most of all given to contention.? Surah 1854Allah protects the Quran Surah 159, 4141-42, 1339, 4224, 8521-22, 1827
Arabic Quran Surah 122, 20113, 3928, 413, 4144, 427. 433Quran only message of Muhammad Surah 619, 5045, 1644, 1664, 141, 6155, 4105, 1827, 2530, 2454, 1635, 599, 854, 7158, 4217, 3334
?The duty of the Messenger is only to deliver. And Allah knows what you do openly and what you hide.? Surah 599, 2454Follow only what Allah revealed, the teachings of Muhammad, the Quran Surah 299, 73, 7157, 7203-204, 864, 332, 1736,1827-28, 159, 2848-49, 3529, 496, 5417,22,32,40, 8521-22, 961, 981-8
?O Prophet! Allah is sufficient for you and such of the believers as follow you." Surah 864Proof Guidance
http//www.youtube.com/watch?v=RcRNJNXiOc8Peace.
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Now here is the deal...
...you have read a Quran translation in your language, be it English or Tagalog. So you understand the Message Worship Allah alone, follow the teachings in the Quran; establish daily prayer, pay regular charity, and do good deeds. So you have the Message given to you by the Messenger (pbuh).
The next step is up to you. Are you going to read the Quran again, praying for guidance (Surah 245, 2186), pondering the meanings within (Surah 2219, 3191, 482, 1612, 2368, 3446, 3829)?
The Arabic language isn't a dead language, like ancient Hebrew, ancient Koine Greek, or Aramaic. You can go to an Arabic speaking person today and they can read the original Arabic Quran. You can also learn Arabic quite readily. I am learning Arabic, and I'm a white American born into a Christian family. If I can do it, no one has any excuses. P
The next steps are up to you. How are you going to incorporate the teachings into your life? Are you going to pray to Allah for guidance in patience and prayer? Are you going to ask Allah why He said it was okay to marry 4 women if you have the means? Are you going to study the Quran to see what women you are allowed to marry?
Areyou going to research topics given in the Quran? Are you going to use the Quran as a starting point for your research into what the Jinn are, why pork is bad for you, why honey contains a healing, what the disbelievers say about the beginning of all things and how the Quran confirms their theory, where Man comes from, who Dhul-Qarnain is...?The list goes on, alhamdulillah!
Are you going to study the Quran?
Men of understanding Surah 2121, 37, 3918, 2179, 2197, 2269, 313, 3190, 5100, 12111, 1319, 1452, 1676, 2054, 20128, 2935, 3022, 3528, 3829, 3843, 399, 4054, 5120, 5913, 6510, 895
"Those to whom We have given the Book study it as it should be studied they are the ones that believe therein those who reject faith therein, the loss is their own." Surah 2121
"Those who listen to the word, then follow the best of it; those are they whom Allah has guided, and those it is who are the men of understanding." Surah 3918
?And certainly We have made clear for men in this Quran every kind of description, but most men consent naught save denying.? Surah 1789As long as we have the Quran, we need no other Messengers; we have the Message.
May Allah continue to guide us to the Truth.
Peace.
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Regarding the witnessing of two women, I take it as an indication that women, as much as possible should not be imposed upon or burdened unnecessarily if they have not demanded it. Actually what the aya is talking about is some deals which those involved engaged in voluntarily and for their own purposes. It is not a crime that is witnessed by pure coincidence by somewone and therefore there is no choice as to witness or not witness, the person who was witness must act as such witness. In the case represented by aya 2.282 the witnessing is a service for somebody else's convenience but that cannot be refused, therefore imposing on women is avoided.
That I can see, I wonder however, what happens if no man is available. Would in that case two women do the job? I guess, so if they are willing. Might it be possible that depending on the circumstances women might be subjected to pressure by some party?
I do not think with this aya the capacity of women as witnesses of women is being doubted, but for me it also requires some more explanation or understanding.
On the other hand whaty were the uses amongs other peopls when the Qur'an was revealed. Were women asked to witness deeds and trade documents? That would be interesting to know.
On the other hand, there is no prohibition of women witnessing anything as by herself, only those who wish to contract something are adviced to get men and only if there are not men get women, but there is no saying that if they already have women by them who can and will witness they should still get somebody else. On the other hand Was it usual that women would witness anything at all among the people then and there and their witnessing was considered valid? I do not know, because if that wa snot the case, in fact the Qur'an is authorising the witnessing of those transactions by women. There are too many things I do not know on this matter.
Salaam
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Concerning poligamy I am not fully convinced that 4.3 talks about poligamy, although on the other hand there is not ouright categorical prohibition of ploigamy, although it is overall given to understand that monogamy is the rule. There have been in history instances where women have outnumbered men by many and society could not have got along save by sharing husbands, ligally or ilegally. In those cases where it is inevitable, because to impose monogamy on such situations is impossible and unfair, then it should be legislated, so that nobody abuses the situation.
Salaam
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I'm not an Arab either - but Allah created me equally to all the other human beings, therefor I have the same opportunities, duties and mind.
If you read everything else in the Quran I believe it would contradict the statement that Islam was specifically made for the Arabs. And for what it's worth the Quran also criticized the Arabs - don't remember the exact verse. And an irony to your theory - the Arabs are a minority within the Islamic faith.About the pork thing - pig and swine will eat anything you give it, whether it's mud, its own feces or the carcass of other pigs. So I don't mind the extra unhealthy fat in cow meat when compared to the meat of the animal that eats feces and garbage.
And I'd like to move your attention back to Raginggaijin's post...
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You see brothers, thats the point. All of your explanations in this thread are DEBATABLE. - polygamy, pork, female witnesses, that muhammad is sent for the entire world, etc.
Is there no Messenger to CLARIFY this for us ONCE AND FOR ALL according to 144 and 1047?
Why is it that we have different interpretations of the Classical Arabic used in the Quran that even the native Arabic speakers find difficult to interpret without somebody else trying to refute him?
Because the Arabic used in the Quran is not the native language of today's Arabs?
122 We have sent it down an Arabic Quran, perhaps you will comprehend.
WAS THE ENTIRE QURAN REALLY INTENDED FOR ALL OF US? MAYBE NOT! nope Because if it was, it would have been EASY TO UNDERSTAND, AS IF IT WAS REVEALED TO US IN OUR RESPECTIVE MOTHER TONGUES.
427 And thus We have inspired to you an Arabic Quran, so that you may warn the capital town and all around it, and to warn about the Day of Gathering that is inevitable.
We are not even around the capital town, wherever that is. ???
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sallam, bro tony there no perfect translation of so called arabic language on earth , infact in new finding word "Arabic" itself mean "mother tongue" so every reigion language is called "arabic".
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Peace Tony
Breifly speaking,the central message conveyed by the quran is monotheism based on which all forms of good deeds emanate. This definitely is not bound by time and not ment for arabs. It is an invitation for mankind generally.
However, the immediate recepien of the message are arab. It is just natural that for this, it is revealed in their languge and of course some specific injuntions are stated taking into consideration their peculier situation but then with general application.
Actually, languages wise some issues can be said to be meant for the arabs alone but careful attention to the meaning may reveal otherwise.
Note that arabic, a human language just like any other language is not perfect. It is limited and the mesasage of unlimited in meaning is conveyed in it.
However, this constraint is taken care of when the whole message is considered.
Regarding the specific issues like swine, witness by female, polygamy,among others mentioned in your post, I need to take my time to express my understanding about them.
THINK ABOUT IT
ZUBAIRUS.
Peace Tony.
Furtherance to the above general response to your post,below are my understanding to your specific points
Regarding the whole quran not being for all of us, please read the highlited point above.In addition, 690 among others clearly stated that the message is for the world.
This reality is not negated by the fact that the message was reaveled in arabic language. The truth is that it is meant for humanbeings and must of course be in human language.Is there any problem that the language of the immediate receivers is chosen. Infact this is just natural thing to be done. Tony, the message contained therein can equally be expressed in other human languages. See, you are not an arab yet, you confirm to have benefited from it and you equally acknowledged that others can as well benefit.What more?That the prophet was told to warn the capital city and the environs, has this made the message exclussively for the said city and environs?Yes, it was mentioned in the quran that for every nation there is a messenger. What is your concept of the nation mentioned therein? Note, we must not be beclouded by the present concept/usage of nation. That we are having differences unresoved regarding some message in the quran is not because of language, neither is it because muhamad is not with us. Afterall people differed when he was alive.The same language and he was with them. The fact is that anybody or group of peaple who set out on the journey to which quran invites will not end up with difference as regard the message of the quran unresoved. The merciful lord is the one that teaches the quran/that guide and this He does by a person's submission/a person's readiness to live by the truth.
You talk about polygamy, I believe you know that polygamy is not a must. Yes, judging by what we are seeing from most of the polygamouse homes , it is hectic. Can we by this conclude that it is not possible for two sisters that are dedicated to a truthful life to live peacefully having the same husband? Again, the problem is us not the polygamy. The root cause is our selfishness. Imagine two selfish brothers/sisters of the same father and mother on earth,then you will appreciate what I am saying.
Regarding your question on two female witness, it is just with regards to financial/econmic transactions.And in this is a wisdom. Remember the present arrangement where by women have been cajoled to think that a man is equall to a woman is deception.By this decepption,they have been relegated to the status of commodity. Yes, soul wise we are identical but not bodily wise. And natural organisation rationally must take this diffence into cosideratiom. In a family set up, a man has his unique resposibility and also a woman.
Regarding pork, He is the one who created pig among other animals and advise that we should not consume an aspect of it because it is not healthy. But that however, if we are compelled, there is no blame. What is the problem with this? That the pig eating nation is healthier than arab, has it made the injunction invalid.Is pig the only thing in the world that has negative effect on our health?.And have the said 'some scientist' estalished that flesh of pig is absolutely neat?.
Tony what I believe is needed is this, first thing first.We must begin from our selves as individual and must be sincere to our claim.We must be prepared to disregard our desires and accept the truth.We must migerate mentally from our present seats,-selfish enslaved state of mind and loyalty to the nations/systems which emanate from human unguided desires , to the merciful lord that actually deserves our loyalty.
It is the the promise of the merciful lord that whoever strive on His way, He will guide him/her. AND INDEED, HE HAS SAID THE TRUTH.
I insist, the choice is ours.
THINK ABOUT IT.
zubairus
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Tony what I believe is needed is this, first thing first.We must begin from our selves as individual and must be sincere to our claim.We must be prepared to disregard our desires and accept the truth.We must migerate mentally from our present seats,-selfish enslaved state of mind and loyalty to the nations/systems which emanate from human unguided desires , to the merciful lord that actually deserves our loyalty.
It is the the promise of the merciful lord that whoever strive on His way, He will guide him/her. AND INDEED, HE HAS SAID THE TRUTH.
I insist, the choice is ours.
THINK ABOUT IT.
zubairus
Bolded for emphasis.
Our Creator, Allah, tells us He explains. Surah 373, 426, 487,179, 346, 3923, 4144, 456. 5417,22,32,40, 5675-81, 7516-19, 7750, 1035, 73, 2779, 333, 1689
?Allah desires to explain to you, and to guide you into the ways of those before you, and to turn to you, and Allah is Knowing, Wise.? Surah 426But what must a believer do? Surah Surah 245, 2153, 2186, 961
Those who debate about classical Arabic terms need only look to the Quran for their answer to their questions
"Those who listen to the word, then follow the best of it; those are they whom Allah has guided, and those it is who are the men of understanding." Surah 3918Allah is very specific about how we are to treat those who take our deen/religion/way of life as a joke
"O you who believe! do not take for guardians those who take your religion for a mockery and a joke, from among those who were given the Book before you and the unbelievers; and be careful of Allah if you are believers." Surah 557
"You shall certainly be tried respecting your wealth and your souls, and you shall certainly hear from those who have been given the Book before you and from those who are polytheists much annoying talk; and if you are patient and guard, surely this is one of the affairs determined upon." Surah 3186Allah seperates the pure from impure Surah 837, 6710, 549
?And they shall say Had we but listened or pondered, we should not have been among the inmates of the burning fire.? Surah 6710I am not a guardian. I am not responsible for you, Tony. To you are your deeds, and to me are mine. You are given clear proofs from the Quran that Muhammad (pbuh) is the Seal of Prophets, the Final Messenger. You need no further Messenger as you have the pure, protected Message when you open the Quran.
Allah protects the Quran Surah 159, 4141-42, 1339, 4224, 8521-22, 1827
Arabic Quran Surah 122, 20113, 3928, 413, 4144, 427. 433A Quran in a language still spoken today.
Believe or believe not.
"And when they hear idle talk they turn aside from it and say We shall have our deeds and you shall have your deeds; peace be on you, we do not desire the ignorant." Surah 2855
Peace be on you.
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Polygamy existed long before the Quran. And the Quran did say two three or four but never said it can't be not more than four. Its and expression of language but there is no evidence that the Quran says we can't marry more than four. We know many prophets in the Bible had more than four wives. So I think that the Quran simply went along with this practice but warned against biases and discrimination between the wives by the husband.
Eating pork also is talked about in the OT however the Gospel did not. So it can't be a big deal or else Jesus and the Gospel would have talked about it.
Maybe it has to do with how pigs were traditionally reared and maintained. Or maybe like the Sabbath its a trial to see who was following Muhammad and who was a bluff. The Quran says the sabbath was a trial on the Israelites. It also says Qibla was a trial.
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Peace Tony,
Language is not an issue here. If God send down the message to Muhammad who speak Arabs, then surely is Arabic. If God send down the bible to Jesus, is it in English that you see now in New and Old testament? No, it's in Jesus language or semitic. I can say you should not received Bible, because the original is in semitic language and jesus is only for Jews, not for Americans, not for British, not for Arabs and not for Tagalog speaking. Can you inform this matter to Filipino christians or American christians? I hope you have also the ability to argue about bible content to all these Christian societies. Even then we don't know if the English people hundreds of years ago really translate the bible from Semitic language to English correctly. How about Bible in Arabic verses for the Arabs? What do you think? Any wisdom in Bible? And yet there are many versions of bible and revised. Is Buddha an indian or chinese? Can you argue with the chinese that Buddha teachings is only for Indians, because Buddha is an indian or speak Indian? All languages were created by God.
If the lecture in New York State University is in English, is it only for the Americans? If the Filipino professor translate the American Calculus textbooks from English to Tagalog, what's your opinion? Do you really believed in that Tagalog version or American version? It's up to you. Do you think of the language or the calculus formula?
Regarding the pork, it's prohibited by Almighty God who create you Mr. Tony. Not Muhammad, not the Arabs. It's not an issue of nice taste or not. Remember Mr. Tony, God can make pork meat tasty, but just to test you whether you obey His Command or not? It's not an issue of healthy by eating pork and Arab not eating pork also not healthy. It's just that God create pig or swine as a biological machine to consume all types of dirt on this earth for the stability of environment life cycle. That's the real benefit of having pigs on this planet Earth. We cannot simply kill or wipe out all pigs on this planet Earth. God never say kill all pigs, but not consume pork meat. That's all. Fullstop. If we think of taste or nice, everything in the world we can say tasty. Even some young men like old ladies. It's not the point about preference. I can say I like to drive fast in the downtown New York or Manila, because it's very nice and thrill to do so, but can I just simply say nice and fun without knowing rules and regulations of the country or police department?
Muhammad is the last prophet. Sealed 1400 years ago. But the message is still on. If you still prefer Jesus, it's up to you. If you still need another Prophet for non-Arabs, then you will be alone in this world to wait for another thousands of years and yet no more. Remember, the last message is not a matter of Arabs or non-Arabs. It's a matter of where are you now? If you live in Moses time, surely you will follow Moses.
If you want to achieve highest academic level, surely Ph.D is the one. But, even you get Ph.D, doesn't mean you stop doing research. But if you only want up to degree level only it's up to you.
Just my opinion.
