Wife beating in islam? The Quran strikes back
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peace Mazhar,
Can you clarify where 850 & 4727 fit into your sequence?
living ---> death ---> resurrection ---> judgement ---> punishment/reward
Thanks.Angels segregate people from others at the time of their death. Segregation follows death or without death in case of getting killed in the Cause of Allah. And criminals and righteous are to be segregated on the Day of Resurrection by the Angels and escorted to their respective places.
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Indeed the ones whom the Angels segregated/separated them , those who wronged and did injustice to their selves, they were asked, "In what circumstances were you people?"Chapter 4 Verse 97
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till such time when Our sent ones/messengers will alienate/segregate them .
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They asked them, "where are those whom you used to call apart from Allah?".......................http//www.haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/007.%20Al%20Airaaf/7.38.gif
They were asked; "You people enter into the Hell to join generations of Jinn and human beings that had passed before you people in time"Chapter 7 Verses 37-39
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And if you could visualize when the Angels will undertake intensively to alienate/segregate those who deliberately and persistently denied , by slashing on their faces and backs
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"And you people taste the scorching of heat/fire/temperature.
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This is the result/effect/outcome of that which your hands had sent in advance. And certainly Allah is never unjust to His created ones".http//www.haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/016.%20An%20Nahl/Temp%2001%2016.28a.gif
those whom the Angels are segregating/alienating as wrong doers to their selves". ...............
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Therefore you people enter the gates of Hell to dwell therein for ever".Chapter 16 Verses 27-29
"Peace and tranquility is upon you people; you people enter into the Paradise for what you people had been doing"
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Thereat how when the Angels had undertaken intensively to alienate/segregate them
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by slashing on their faces and backs
http//www.haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/047.%20Muhammad%20Salla%20Allah%20alaih%20wassalm/47.28a.gif
This happened to them because they consciously and purposely followed that which caused for Allah taking criminal cognizance against themChapter 47 Verses 27-28
I hope it makes evident that slashing is being done on the Day of Judgment and not at the time of death. If you have seen a scence when Police is arresting criminals or trouble creators from a mob/big crowd of people, which is quite a common scence on streets of my country, the scences of Day of Judgment become visual clips.
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peace Mazhar,
I think the malaika taking them at "resurrection" is a possibility, however this does not change the translation I gave. It would be very interesting to establish the sequence however.
Is there any clear example in AQ about punishment prior to day of judgement? I couldn't find any. If so, the only option left is what you suggest I assume you mean once the verdict is given on J-Day, then 850 & 4727 takes place?
Interestingly, every translator I read said it was at death, so I am wondering why they said this.
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peace Mazhar,
I think the malaika taking them at "resurrection" is a possibility, however this does not change the translation I gave. It would be very interesting to establish the sequence however.
Is there any clear example in AQ about punishment prior to day of judgement? I couldn't find any. If so, the only option left is what you suggest I assume you mean once the verdict is given on J-Day, then 850 & 4727 takes place?
Interestingly, every translator I read said it was at death, so I am wondering why they said this.
The conjectural story of Return of Easa alahissalam seems to have haunted them. And secondly because Jalalain made an error of translating as .
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peace all,
I would like to know if there is anyone who has read all of the study on www.Quran434.com and disagrees with it. If so, why? It would help me a lot to understand peoples views if you let me know. Thanks.
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- Fair enough. It might not be necessary though, I can cite someone through my own volition. I think these are just prescriptory phases.
- Ok
- I am assuming that in 434, she is the cause of the problem, and in 4128, he is the cause of the problem. This is because though it only says if we fear, the Quran prescribes in other situations that privacy is to be respected and false baseless accusations are wrong.
Woe to every backbiter, slanderer.
This fear is not wild guesses then, it has to be supported with some solid evidence. How else would authorities delegate guilt?
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If I am understanding your implication, this point is a genetic fallacy. My view could be subjective but that does not count as an attack against whether it is truthful or not.
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It does not need to be there. It is just what I think. If I wrote my own tafseer, I would say I believe these leave them period is short because etc.
The linguistic gymnastics I am referring too are my own. In order to support the definition of leave them, I have to answer the questions above in a manner that delimit definitions and such. Your argument seems easier to defend than mine.
Peace
Very good point. Fear by itself is not enough evidence or justification. So how can you justify beating when all you have is just fear? Elsehwere we see in Quran that an accusation by a spouse was supposed to be backed with evidence and accusation as we know is much stronger than fear or suspicion.
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peace Bigmo, all,
I have reworded a section in the study to
If it is only the husband who fears disloyalty/uprising/infidelity, or even if he is sure of it, and if there are no witnesses/evidence, then he must follow the procedure in 246-9 and cannot take it upon himself to administer any punishment. Since a "fear/suspicion", as in 434, is certainly less than being sure, it also cannot warrant any punishment. Anything to the contrary would be an internal inconsistency in The Quran's ruling.
And for those of you who have read it here is some very interesting information I came across recently, which I have also added (the part in bold)
Also, however the court/authority came to find out about the couple in 434-35, how did the court/authority come to find out about the couple in 581-4 in the exact same situation of breach/rift, i.e. no resolution? She cited the husband to the authority. If the traditional position somehow implies the couple used a different method in 434 to make the authority aware of the situation, then they have to explain why the difference between the two examples, without causing a logical and practical inconsistency. For example, in "K. al nasikh wa-l-mansukh" by Abu Ubaid al-Qasim b. Sallam (d. 224AH/839), one of the earliest works in its field, it comments on the tafsir/interpretation of 435 and says "the story establishes the principle that the spouses may withdraw their invitation to the authorities to act". Thus, it is clear from the traditional commentary the spouse would inform the court/authority of the problem, before they intervened. This provides a perfect link with DaRaBa and all points to one answer in a situation of no reconciliation and the partner in the wrong will not initiate divorce/release, the step prior to the authority intervening is for one partner to cite/indicate the other (to the authority).
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www.quran434.com/about-the-author.html
It only took me 8 years after joining the forum to write my story. Better late than never
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www.quran434.com/about-the-author.html
It only took me 8 years after joining the forum to write my story. Better late than never
ooh, the guy in the corner under the tree-- what's he doing there
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Update
Dr Shabbir (author of QXP) has opted to modify his translation according to the findings of Quran434.com
I also provided a summary on the above thread, which I will post here also
I would like to provide a short summary for those who may not wish to read the entire work (even though I strongly recommend they do)
- idriboo/DRB was shown not to mean "beat" anywhere in The Quran
- no Classical Arabic Dictionary references 434 at all nor gives DRB=beat in a comparable example, i.e. with a direct object with no prepositions, no what/where/how
- when The Quran uses DRB to mean a physical hit/strike it ALWAYS uses the preposition "bi" (with/by)
- The understanding of "beat/strike" causes internal contradictions within The Quran, and this is also probably why no commentator, past or present, uses The Quran itself to justify this view.
- "beat" causes discrepancies between Traditional commentators, Traditional Ahadith and Classical Arabic dictionaries
- the earliest Classical Arabic dictionary (Kitab Al Ayn) does not state DRB=beat as a meaning, and only indirectly does it have DRB=strike with sword.
The understanding of DRB in 434 as "cite / indicate / put/show forth them" (to the authority) is the ONLY understanding that provides perfect internal coherence in The Quran. It is the ONLY understanding
- that provides a sequential link from 434 to 435
- to provide identical solutions between men & women in 434 and 4128
- that fits and perfectly explains 581-4
- that fits the divorce procedure of The Quran and related compensation
- that explains the reasoning behind the context of wealth/inheritance/giving/kindness etc.
- is consistent with the use of DRB with a direct object with no prepositions, in which it always means "put/show forth"
- that 100% matches the use of DRB when used with a person as the object, e.g. 273, 4357.
All praise is due to Allah.
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peace all,
I have finished the formatting for the book version
www.quran434.com/wife-beating-islam-quran434.doc (Word doc, right click, save as)If people have time to proofread it for any errors or even feedback, let me know.
Proposed book cover shown below. Feel free to give feedback, or even create others.
http//www.quran434.com/Quran434-book-cover.jpg
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peace all,
I have finished the formatting for the book version
www.quran434.com/wife-beating-islam-quran434.doc (Word doc, right click, save as)If people have time to proofread it for any errors or even feedback, let me know.
Proposed book cover shown below. Feel free to give feedback, or even create others.
http//www.quran434.com/Quran434-book-cover.jpg
Arabic text of all Ayat where words relating to this Root are used can be seen side by side here
Root
Words from this Root in the Grand Qur'aan
a) Total occurrences 58
b) No of constructions 28
The basic perception, meanings and signification of this Root has been made evident at the very first occasion of its use in the Grand Qur'aan and later by using it in this context for 31 times out of 58 occurrences
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Peace, Wakas
Proposed book cover shown below. Feel free to give feedback, or even create others.
It doesn't look professional. The layout isn't very balanced, and the image is too aggressive and sort of contradicts the message. Plus, you are using two images that have a very different illustrative style.
I'll be happy to help you with the design. Usually, I don't work for free, but this is for a very good cause. ) Maybe we can do a bit of brainstorming in this thread?
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Peace Leyna,
I'm happy to consider alternatives.
That was one I just made myself, and I'm no graphics artist! ;D
The way I saw the image was opening The Quran, i.e. reading/studying it, it actually knocks out the "wife beating in islam" argument, hence the picture. I was going for irony, a play on words and imagery etc.
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I'm happy to consider alternatives.
Let me think of some ideas, and I'll get back to you.
That was one I just made myself, and I'm no graphics artist! ;D
Well, yes, obviously.
No offense meant, btw.! I tend to be pretty direct, and criticizing other peoples' drafts is part of my job. -*
The way I saw the image was opening The Quran, i.e. reading/studying it, it actually knocks out the "wife beating in islam" argument, hence the picture. I was going for irony, a play on words and imagery etc.
Yes, I understand your train of thought regarding the choice of pictures. Still, I believe the glove / boxing hand carries particular connotations that could be problematic.
Maybe it doesn't even need an image at all ? just a simple, catchy looking cover?
