Wife beating in islam? The Quran strikes back
-
The answer to your question is specifically addressed at www.Quran434.com
"...then appoint a judge..." (Arabic ibAAatho hakaman, roots Ba-Ayn-Thal, Ha-Kaf-Miim), literally means to put in motion or send/appoint a judge/arbiter. The Arabic confirms that the plural "you" can ONLY refer to someone/something in a position to put this in motion, so it cannot mean either side's family for example. Also, appointing an arbiter from each side is not a simple task as it would require representations from husband and wife or each side of the family, and suggests the process has become formalised, i.e. judicial. This clearly confirms the court/authority is involved at this stage.
Have you read it?
-
Peace Wakas,
Thanks for the reply, according the websites translation below "if they obey you" pertains to the husband
being obeyed, is this correct, if so please elaborate.The men are supporters/maintainers of the women with what God bestowed on some of them over others
and with what they spent of their money, so the righteous women are dutiful; guardians to the unseen with
what God guarded. And as for those women you fear their disloyalty, then (first) you shall advise them, and
(second) abandon them in the bed, and (lastly) cite them. If they obeyed you, then seek not against them a
way; Truly, God is High, Great.And if you (authority) feared a rift between them two, then appoint a judge from his family and a judge from
hers. If they both want to reconcile, then God will bring agreement between them. God is Knowledgeable,
Expert.God bless
peace
-
Again, the answer to your question is specifically addressed at www.Quran434.com
I recommend reading it.
-
I am working on a website similar to Quran434.com, on which I intend to summarise the views I have expressed in this thread. Verse 434 was the first verse I had difficulty understanding in my teenage years, and ultimately it was an article online which enlightened me on the more likely meaning. I think it's important for people to have access to such interpretations and to be aware of the level of misinterpretation the Qur'an has suffered. I don't have a date of completion, but I will post a link when it is complete (God-willing).
As promised, I have completed my article on verse 434 of the Qur'an and have published it on a dedicated website. The website is www.quranverse434.com . I have tried to keep the article concise by not being unnecessarily lengthy, yet thorough by covering all the relevant points. Let me know what you all think. You can click on the image below to be taken to the website.
http//www.quranverse434.com/images/quranverse434_screenshot.png
-
Peace aqua,
I commend you, my brother.
The article is thoroughly detailed, easy to read, well-laid out, well-written, rational, cohesive, articulate, accurate, and revealing.
It must have taken you some time to compose it, but your effort shines through.
I will share it on my Facebook profile.
I am of the opinion that God, the most merciful, would not possibly instruct the believers to beat their wives at a time when marital relations are already strained. However, the rules of Arabic grammar get in the way of this understanding.
The only way out of understanding the verse as "beat them" is ? as you point out ? to postulate that the early readers of the Quran misread for . This is not an unlikely case.
Thanks again for sharing.
Usamah
-
Peace aqua,
I commend you, my brother.
The article is thoroughly detailed, easy to read, well-laid out, well-written, rational, cohesive, articulate, accurate, and revealing.
It must have taken you some time to compose it, but your effort shines through.
I will share it on my Facebook profile.
I am of the opinion that God, the most merciful, would not possibly instruct the believers to beat their wives at a time when marital relations are already strained. However, the rules of Arabic grammar get in the way of this understanding.
The only way out of understanding the verse as "beat them" is ? as you point out ? to postulate that the early readers of the Quran misread for . This is not an unlikely case.
Thanks again for sharing.
Usamah
Thank you for the positive comments. Glad to hear that you agree.
-
In Jonathan Brown's new book he reviews Traditional Islamic understandings of 434 with some interesting insights, p268 onwards.
For those familiar with his previous book on Hadith, it is likely this work will be of similar standard. I personally found his book on Hadith to be excellent. In this work there seems to be many gems also, e.g. he cites a hadith in which the prophet requested a woman to lead a mixed gender congregation prayer. He also discusses the 'Quran Only' movement. -
Why does it take 40 pages or even any "holy book" at all to validate that wife beating is wrong? Doesn't thinking about our own moms give us empathy enough to know that is wrong without being told?
-
Why does it take 40 pages or even any "holy book" at all to validate that wife beating is wrong? Doesn't thinking about our own moms give us empathy enough to know that is wrong without being told?
@Unbeliever welcome
God bless you
peace
-
4.34 is not addressed to husbands but to the community of believers. It is hardly to be taken that the community of believers be told to "beat" a woman just like that.
Also, it speakes not about husbands and wives but about men and women, nothing to do with husbands.
It also does not say that any woman (not wife) has doen anything wrong but that the community of believers FEARS that "they" the women, whoever they are, might to something wrong, but up till then nobody has done anything wrong, so nobody can be "beaten" for something that has not even hapenned.
Teh "idribuhunna" word has certainly avery different meaning from beat, it means as can be logically deducted to do something practical to avoid those women to do something that would be bad for them and the community. Let us not forget that this aya is part of a whole set of ayas that deal with social questions and it also deals with social questions. It is incumbent on the community as a whole thatit takes care fo the women, just as it is incumbent on the whole male population to take care of women in general. This is the question in the aya, that women are looked after, not that women should be punished for whatever imaginary doings might come to mind.
So it should something on the line of finding out from the women themselves, let them know the consequences that their prospected actions might have, let them think about the whole thing by themselves and when some solution is found for the situation of the women, carry it out with them.
Salaam
-
peace sister huruf,
Also, it speakes not about husbands and wives but about men and women, nothing to do with husbands.
Please refrain from repeating claims. If you wish to repeat them, then do not run away when challenged
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9606391.msg356394#msg356394So it should something on the line of finding out from the women themselves, let them know the consequences that their prospected actions might have, let them think about the whole thing by themselves and when some solution is found for the situation of the women, carry it out with them.
If someone can find a more coherent answer than the following then please let me know
The understanding of DRB in 434 as "cite / indicate / put/show forth them" (to the authority) is the ONLY understanding that provides perfect internal coherence in The Quran. It is the ONLY understanding
- that provides a sequential link from 434 to 435
- to provide identical solutions between men & women in 434 and 4128
- that fits and perfectly explains 581-4
- that fits the divorce procedure of The Quran and related compensation
- that explains the reasoning behind the context of wealth/inheritance/giving/kindness etc.
- is consistent with the use of DRB with a direct object with no prepositions, in which it always means "put/show forth"
- that 100% matches the use of DRB when used with a person as the object, e.g. 273, 4357.
-
People tend to discriminate muslims by saying beating his wife is an obligations. It is not. Beating your wife is not an obligations, it is your right, and you can decide to do it or not. That allowance is to defend Job who are swore gonna beat her wife. And for that swore even though Job is regret it, God still command him to do his swore by taking a grass and do it.
And as the context of beating your wife, it is allowed in condition to educate them, not because it is your habit. In the quran, a woman can divorce her husband if she think she doesnot like it. I think we can contemplate this clearly to determined wheter a beating is because of lust or because a wisdom.
Even youre beating your child if he/she is harming her brother or her sister am I right? Violence on some condition is neccessary to educate a person.
-
Beating your wife is not an obligations, it is your right, and you can decide to do it or not.
And as the context of beating your wife, it is allowed in condition to educate them, not because it is your habit. In the quran, a woman can divorce her husband if she think she doesnot like it. I think we can contemplate this clearly to determined wheter a beating is because of lust or because a wisdom.
Beating a woman contradicts many parts of the Qur'an; read the contradictions explained here
http//www.quranverse434.com/#problems-with-beat-them
-
Wakas I repeat because you have run away from answering my arguments when you have answered this in the same way, that I am not right, but refrained your self from rebuting my arguments you plain ignored them.
I am not interested inb eing your police and I do not have the time, so I am not looking for the threads where that has hapenned and it has been several.
But you also repppeat, everybody repeats. The forums are full of repetitions.On the other hand, the wording of the aya is so plain and clear that what has to be explained is how it does come that it is transformed into something else. THAT should be explained and not forgotten that if somebody chooses to make things signify other thing that their meaning, one must bring arguments for it.
And I repeat for a good reason not for you, not for those who systematically ignore things that do not suit their own state of thought, but for those who might eventually find the need to go beyond the usual comfortable preconceptions.
I am grateful that some peole chose to repeat things, so that if a did not catch something the first time I had more opportunities later on. I have learnt things that way.
Salaam
-
I mean, it is not an obligations, it is your right like you scold your children when they making a mistake. What word you should pick for such condition?
I would agree if you would agree that women should also "scold" and beat up their husbands when they need correcting.
Have you really read the Qur'an?
Salaam
-
I mean, it is not an obligations, it is your right like you scold your children when they making a mistake.
Scolding children is parent's right . . . !?! ???
What word you should pick for such condition?
I think it needs to be adjusted to the mistakes they make, and also, we need to look at the character of the kids who did it. Right now I don't have experience being a parent, so maybe I could not give proper input related how to educate children,
but I think "beating children" and/or "scolding children" are not the right ways to make the children honor their parents.
Even youre beating your child if he/she is harming her brother or her sister am I right?
I know that beating children is not effective way to educate them to be righteous.
