Where is the First Focal Point's place mentioned in the Quran?
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Salam, Peace,
how did you come to qibla=focal point?
The "direction" you are looking for is in 2142
Sirat al mustaqim = The straight path
Peace
Peace all
2143
the large sized word, Quibla, is translated by free minds as Focal Point.
Conclusion, what is only known to Muhammad is not revelation but only his lifetime experience, but what he knows and written down in Quran that is revelation.
I agree with you; thus, based on your conclusion
The first Focal Point (Qublia) direction was revealed only to Mohamed but It is not important for us to know about, and therefore, it was never a part of Quran. However, the second Qubila, the restricted Masjed, is part of Quran because it is important for us to know.Fair enugh peace
First determine who these "Particular Fools" are, who would say/keep saying.
According to the Quran, those were the people of the book at Mohamed's (PBUH) time.
I will keep on reading your comments...maybe someone can find a hiden verse that speaks about the first Qubila.
Thanks -
According to the Quran, those were the people of the book at Mohamed's (PBUH) time.
http//haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/2.013.gif
And when it is said for them "Believe in the manner as others from amongst the other people {at that time from Jews and Nisa'ra} have believed", they replied "Should we believe like/in the manner/what the fools have believed?" No, the fact of the matter is that they are indeed the http//haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/temp%20Assuffa.gif ones who are fools, but they do not know/intend to know.http//haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/temp%2002%20%202.142.gif
The known fools/Muna'afiqeen from amongst the people will be/keep conversing amongst themselves;
http//haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/temp%2002%20%202.142c.gif
"What is that which has made them turn away from their Qib'laa'tae, one upon which they henceforth were?"http//haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/temp%2002%20%202.142d.gif
You the Messenger Muhammad pronounce ; "For Allah are the East and the Westhttp//haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/002.02.C.142.htm
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I have to start from the beginning. I reject all beliefs taught by man, and follow only what Allah reveals in the Quran.
Follow only what Allah reveals Surah 73, 299, 332, 312-6, 1827-28, 159, 2848-49, 5417,22,32,40, 8521-22, 961, 981-8Hadith teaches to face the Kaaba in prayer. The previous Books teaches to face the Temple of Solomon (pbuh).
I have to study and research the original Arabic to discover for myself what is our qibilah.Our qiblah is our direction; the direction we face to show whose teachings we follow. The qiblah is found in previous Books and other faiths, just as Judaism and Zoroastrian. They will not follow our direction, nor do we follow their direction. Many don?t even follow their own direction.
"And We did not make that which thou wouldst have to be the qiblah/direction but that We might distinguish him who follows the Messenger from him who turns back upon his heels. And it was indeed a hard test except for those whom Allah has guided." Surah 2143
Moses and Aaron were told to turn their homes into places of worship; the word used is qiblah Surah 1087
Al-Aqsa Mosque/Temple of Solomon I Kings 822-44, Surah 171, 174-7, 9107
Daniel faced Jerusalem Dan. 610We discover the first qiblah in Surah 2125 and Surah 396. The first qiblah of Abraham was the Bayt Al-Ibrahim.
"And when We made the House (Bayt) a resort for men and a security. And Take ye the Place (Maqami) of Abraham for a place of prayer. And We enjoined Abraham and Ishmael, saying Purify My House (Bayt) for those who visit and those who abide for devotion and those who bow down, those who prostrated themselves." Surah 2125
"Most surely the first house (baytin) appointed for men is the one at Bakka (bibakkata), blessed and a guidance for the nations (lilAAalameena)." Surah 396
The original Arabic in Surah 2 142-150 states 'Masjid Al-Haram'.
The Sacred Mosque.We are to face Masjid Al-Haram, the Sacred Mosque. Surah 2144,149,150. Allah tells us this three (3) times.
Allah tells us three (3) times "This is truth from thy Lord, so be thou not of the doubters." Surah 2144,147,149Surah 2225-33 differentiates between Masjid Al-Haram and Bayt Al-Haram. The Kabah is called Bayt (2226), Ancient House/Bayt Atiq (2229) and we are told it is okay to go around the House. We do not go around Masjid Al-Haram.
Allah makes sure we know the Kaaba is known as the Sacred House in Surah 597. The Kaaba is a place of congregation and sacrifice (595).
You cannot live in the Kaaba, but families live(d) in Masjid Al-Haram. Surah 2196, 2225, 2791, 2967, 4824"Safa and Marwah are signs of Allah; so whoever makes a pilgrimage to the House or pays a visit, there is no blame on him if he goes round them." Surah 2158
Safa and Marwah are two small mountains that are partially enclosed now by Masjid Al-Haram Surah 2158We know the Sacred Mosque was around during Muhammad's time because it is written in the Quran "O you who believe, the idolators are surely unclean, so they shall not approach the Sacred Mosque after this year of theirs." Surah 928
"Those to whom We have given the Book study it as it should be studied they are the ones that believe therein those who reject faith therein, the loss is their own." Surah 2121
Masjid Al-Haram surrounds the Kaaba.
Proof Qiblah
http//www.youtube.com/watch?v=rdkqlVAMgkYMay Allah continue to guide us to the Truth.
Peace.
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Peace BelH,
Mazhar is right in saying that in order to find the previous "focal point" you need to find out who the fools are. 2142 provides for us verifiable truth that we can all experience and empirically identify who the fools are and thus their "focal point".
The foolish from among the people will say ?What has turned them away from the focal point that they were on?? Say ?To God are the east and the west, He guides whomsoever He wishes to a straight path.?
2142Here is an experiment that anyone of us can easily do.
- Go to any Sunni, Shia or 19er mosque where the people there imagine to face Mecca or anything in it whether it is a building or two small hills.
- Get to know the people there and for a few days pray with them in the same direction they are praying.
- Suddenly, one day pray in any random direction different from where the others are facing.
- You will certainly be asked " " (What has turned you away from the focal point that you were on?)
In fact, you can do the same experiment in any Mosque or religious congregation where a physical direction is important no matter if it is Mecca, Jerusalem, the winter sunrise, etc. and you will certainly be asked the same question. So you can always anytime and anywhere empirically verify who the foolish people are
The fools are those who think that a physical direction is important or that you need to face a particular physical direction to pray to the omnipresent god.
So the first focal point was a PHYSICAL FOCAL POINT.
Of course this physical focal point is completely unimportant and this is why the god doesn't care to tell us anything about it apart from letting us know that it was a physical one since the same principle would apply regardless of what the particular physical focal point was.
Peace,
Ayman
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The fools are those who think that a physical direction is important or that you need to face a particular physical direction to pray to the omnipresent god.
So the first focal point was a PHYSICAL FOCAL POINT.
Of course this physical focal point is completely unimportant and this is why the god doesn't care to tell us anything about it apart from letting us know that it was a physical one since the same principle would apply regardless of what the particular physical focal point was.
Peace,
Ayman
Absolutly !
That's Why i'll never go again to a sunni mosque !! There are plenty of fools right there. The will even urge you to stick your feet with your neighboors' feet to not let the devil cross the lines ! !!!! brickwall brickwall
Salam
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Absolutly !
That's Why i'll never go again to a sunni mosque !! There are plenty of fools right there. The will even urge you to stick your feet with your neighboors' feet to not let the devil cross the lines ! !!!! brickwall brickwall
Salam
you might have gone to a mosque of those who identify themselves as Ahele Hadith.
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you might have gone to a mosque of those who identify themselves as Ahele Hadith.
Salam,
Yes, i used to pray in a morrocan mosque, and you know what ? All moroccan mosques are like that.
Moreover, i prayed with some egyptians, they told me the same thing too , if you don't stick your feet with others' feet, Ibliss would find a way to pass across the line !! I said why the hell would Ibliss pass through the line ???
they all answerd The GOD's prophet mohammed "salla allaho Alayhi wa sallama" has told you so, then you don't have to argue !!!!
That was the last time i prayed with anyone. -
Peace all,
Thanks for your valuable feedback!http//haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/2.013.gif
And when it is said for them "Believe in the manner as others from amongst the other people {at that time from Jews and Nisa'ra} have believed", they replied "Should we believe like/in the manner/what the fools have believed?" No, the fact of the matter is that they are indeed the http//haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/temp%20Assuffa.gif ones who are fools, but they do not know/intend to know.I agree that The fools in general are those who follow the manmade books in lieu of God's (Quran, Torah and Injee).
However, 2-145 to 147 give us hints that the fools whom wondered ubout the change of the Focal points were the people of the Books during the prophet time.Masjid Al-Haram surrounds the Kaaba.
Proof Qiblah
http//www.youtube.com/watch?v=rdkqlVAMgkYMay Allah continue to guide us to the Truth.
Peace.
Question Where is the Bayt Alharam and the Masjed Alharam in our recent days?
Here is an experiment that anyone of us can easily do.
- Go to any Sunni, Shia or 19er mosque where the people there imagine to face Mecca or anything in it whether it is a building or two small hills.
- Get to know the people there and for a few days pray with them in the same direction they are praying.
- Suddenly, one day pray in any random direction different from where the others are facing.
- You will certainly be asked " " (What has turned you away from the focal point that you were on?)
In fact, you can do the same experiment in any Mosque or religious congregation where a physical direction is important no matter if it is Mecca, Jerusalem, the winter sunrise, etc. and you will certainly be asked the same question. So you can always anytime and anywhere empirically verify who the foolish people are
The fools are those who think that a physical direction is important or that you need to face a particular physical direction to pray to the omnipresent god.
So the first focal point was a PHYSICAL FOCAL POINT.
Of course this physical focal point is completely unimportant and this is why the god doesn't care to tell us anything about it apart from letting us know that it was a physical one since the same principle would apply regardless of what the particular physical focal point was.
Thank you for sharing your understanding...The fools are everywhere, however, they never think they are the fools...everyone thinks he is the right one and the other is the Fool.
Peace
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Question Where is the Bayt Alharam and the Masjed Alharam in our recent days?
Salam belH,
this question would be relevent only if "bayt" means "house" and therefore a location to look for.
BUT, if ''bayt" means some "system" or some "moral rules" as i'm thinking, then they're not on any map .
Salam
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I'm going to link to my own topic because when it comes to focal point I'm skeptical about the meaning of 'focal point'. Qiblah as 'focal point' doesn't make sense in 1087. In short, I think it means tradition or reception.
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9598257.0
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Question Where is the Bayt Alharam and the Masjed Alharam in our recent days?
"Safa and Marwah are signs of Allah; so whoever makes a pilgrimage to the House or pays a visit, there is no blame on him if he goes round them." Surah 2158
Safa and Marwah are two small mountains that are partially enclosed now by Masjid Al-Haram.
http//tinyurl.com/ycohqnu
Was it?
Peace.
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"Safa and Marwah are signs of Allah; so whoever makes a pilgrimage to the House or pays a visit, there is no blame on him if he goes round them." Surah 2158
Safa and Marwah are two small mountains that are partially enclosed now by Masjid Al-Haram.
http//tinyurl.com/ycohqnu
Was it?
Peace.
Peace,
Do you mean that the Masjed Elharm is in Macca (Sudi Arabia)?
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Salam,
Yes, i used to pray in a morrocan mosque, and you know what ? All moroccan mosques are like that.
Moreover, i prayed with some egyptians, they told me the same thing too , if you don't stick your feet with others' feet, Ibliss would find a way to pass across the line !! I said why the hell would Ibliss pass through the line ???
they all answerd The GOD's prophet mohammed "salla allaho Alayhi wa sallama" has told you so, then you don't have to argue !!!!
That was the last time i prayed with anyone.So you now pray at home!
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Peace,
Do you mean that the Masjed Elharm is in Macca (Sudi Arabia)?
Is this a joke?
Do you want to be told "This iz teh qiblah" or are you interested in asking Allah for guidance?
Spoon feeding is over. I am not responsible for you, nor am I your guardian. You are given all the proofs and all the resources are available to you.
Peace.
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Salam,
For me my Qiblah, is actually abstract in nature.
My qiblah, is my "direction" towards AlMighty God in my daily lives. "Ih dinassiratolmustaqim" in Al-Fatihah surah. Right path. Right direction. That is our Focal point. Very precision in our target.
Right direction in our daily job. Right direction in leading my family. Right direction in my economic activities. So all these right direction is what we call Solat or contact with God. All we do is under supervision of God.
So, Salat avoid us from doing bad things. That's what God said in Quran. Meaning that solat is right direction in life and contact by heart to God. Not solat as what sunni muslims do 5 times a day. That's why, many people even pray 5 times a day, but still doing bad things. So, what's the meaning of their type of solat thta cannot even avoid doing bad things.
God is the King of Heavens and the Planets, in the East and West. So qibla or direction is not only on planet Earth, but also if we land on Planet Mars, qibla or right direction still applies. Nothing to do with the kaabah in Mecca.
Peace.
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Peace ayman,
The fools are those who think that a physical direction is important or that you need to face a particular physical direction to pray to the omnipresent god.
So the first focal point was a PHYSICAL FOCAL POINT
.The foolish from among the people will say ?What has turned them away from the focal point that they were on?? Say ?To God are the east and the west, He guides whomsoever He wishes to a straight path.?
2142
.If you agree that the first focal point was a physical point from which they turned. The question is this, they turned to where? To no direction or a different direction?
THINK ABOUT IT.ZUBAIRUS
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I only posed it that some one may not take impression from your earlier post that because of Ahle Hadith you have also abandoned As Salat. Good.
You are not completly wrong i gave up doing "their" salat and but i am now doing my "own" salat ( at least i try my best to).
I join brother MESSAGE114 in all that he said in his previous post.Salam