Splitting in to sects
-
Peace,
Respectfully.I personally believe that in the real Islam, there aren't any sects as there should not be any. Thank God. I also believe that sunnis, shias, wahabis and whatnot are not Muslims because they already have heir new names, new books, namely "sahih hadith by Bukhary and Muslim", conveniant names, gotta say, they got a whole new lifestyle which contradicts The Quran.
We, Muslims, don't cut hands of thieves, sunnis do.
Muslims don't force their women to wear hijab, niqab, burqas and so on, sunnis do.
Muslims don't cut our own bodies, shias do.
Muslims shave or not, we got the free will and choice and we use it, wahabis believe that once you shave, you're like a woman.
Need i go on?Of course, whenever i say that there is a huge difference between Muslims and sunnis, i only get interested looks from nonmuslims, sunnis just make threats.
Peace.
-
(Hafiz Ibn Kathir (Rahimahullah) in The Signs Before The Day of Judgement (pg. 14)
"Awf ibn Malik reported that the Prophet (Peace be upon him) said, 'The Jews split into 71 sects one will enter Paradise and 70 will enter Hell. The Christians split into 72 sects 71 will enter Hell and one will enter Paradise. By Him in Whose hand is my soul, my Ummah will split into 73 sects one will enter Paradise and 72 will enter Hell.' Someone asked, 'O Messenger of Allah (Peace be upon him), who will they be?' He replied, 'The main body of the Muslims (al-Jama'ah).'
If that's supposed to be evidence shouldn't we be able to measure it? how many sects of each group are there? also al-jama`ah doesn't necessarily mean main body but i don't wanna try justifying/interpreting hadith.
I think it's just some hadith theory and it doesn't have any weighting to sunni's today. who gave them the title "ahl sunnah waljam'ah"? when did that come about? what's important is people's adherence to what god ordained not main bodies. after all, in different countries there is different "jama'ah's" take iran for example dominated by shia would that mean this hadith will suit them? sunni's will definitely disagree.
Peace
-
Peace,
Respectfully.I personally believe that in the real Islam, there aren't any sects as there should not be any. Thank God. I also believe that sunnis, shias, wahabis and whatnot are not Muslims because they already have heir new names, new books, namely "sahih hadith by Bukhary and Muslim", conveniant names, gotta say, they got a whole new lifestyle which contradicts The Quran.
We, Muslims, don't cut hands of thieves, sunnis do.
Muslims don't force their women to wear hijab, niqab, burqas and so on, sunnis do.
Muslims don't cut our own bodies, shias do.
Muslims shave or not, we got the free will and choice and we use it, wahabis believe that once you shave, you're like a woman.
Need i go on?Of course, whenever i say that there is a huge difference between Muslims and sunnis, i only get interested looks from nonmuslims, sunnis just make threats.
Peace.
The concept of sects is one I've been struggling with lately. How can you have discernment between good and bad, and how can you separate yourself from a group like the sunnis who believe in Allah and the last day, but practice shirk...all without creating a sect? It seems by saying we are true muslims and they are sunnis, we have just created a sect called 'true muslims'. I don't see how any group can strive to stay pure without creating a sect in the process.
-
Salaam,
The concept of sects is one I've been struggling with lately. How can you have discernment between good and bad, and how can you separate yourself from a group like the sunnis who believe in Allah and the last day, but practice shirk...all without creating a sect? It seems by saying we are true muslims and they are sunnis, we have just created a sect called 'true muslims'. I don't see how any group can strive to stay pure without creating a sect in the process.
Allah suggested us as follows
3105
3105 And do not be like those who separated and differed after the clarity had come to them. And for them is a painful retribution.
Then who/what we are?
319
319 The system with Allah is AlIslaam, and those who received the Book did not dispute except after the knowledge came to them out of jealousy between them. And whoever rejects the revelations of Allah, then Allah is swift in judgment.
2278
2278 And strive in the cause of Allah its truly deserved striving. He is the One who has chosen you, and He has made no hardship for you in the system, the creed of your father Abraham; He is the One who named you AlMuslimeen from before and in this. So let the messenger be witness over you and you be witness over the people. So hold the bond and contribute towards purification and hold tight to Allah, He is your patron. What an excellent Patron, and what an excellent Supporter.
May Allah guide us all towards His path pr
Mohammed M. Khan -
Salaam,
Allah suggested us as follows
3105
3105 And do not be like those who separated and differed after the clarity had come to them. And for them is a painful retribution.
Then who/what we are?
319
319 The system with Allah is AlIslaam, and those who received the Book did not dispute except after the knowledge came to them out of jealousy between them. And whoever rejects the revelations of Allah, then Allah is swift in judgment.
2278
2278 And strive in the cause of Allah its truly deserved striving. He is the One who has chosen you, and He has made no hardship for you in the system, the creed of your father Abraham; He is the One who named you AlMuslimeen from before and in this. So let the messenger be witness over you and you be witness over the people. So hold the bond and contribute towards purification and hold tight to Allah, He is your patron. What an excellent Patron, and what an excellent Supporter.
May Allah guide us all towards His path pr
Mohammed M. KhanAs always, I agree with you. So when Allah talks about sects, is he just talking about names of groups that don't get along? By saying we are different than shias, because they have gone astray, does that make us a sect? I hope not, and maybe I am overcomplicating things, but can we avoid breaking into sects by keeping the name muslim and just living according to God's system without contending with sunnis and shias?
-
Salaaman CNB,
As always, I agree with you. So when Allah talks about sects, is he just talking about names of groups that don't get along?
Not only names bro, if you notice there are two points mentioned in 3105
1- Separated
2- Differed after the clarifications came to themYou will get the answer inshaAllah when you question yourself
1- Separated from whom?
2- Differed from whom?By saying we are different than shias, because they have gone astray, does that make us a sect? I hope not, and maybe I am overcomplicating things, but can we avoid breaking into sects by keeping the name muslim and just living according to God's system without contending with sunnis and shias?
When Allah gave us a beautiful and selected name we don't have to change it. And not just by changing name to Muslim make us a real Muslim, but with our acts as per AlQuraan/AlKitaab.
When you ask them they straight away say that we are "Sunni Muslim" and "Shai Muslim", why? Either you can say that they don't like the name given by Allah OR the most valid reason for them to separate and differ themselves from Muslims / others knowingly or unknowingly as in 3105.
We don't need to add any new name or classify us differently, we just need to call ourselves Muslim and we just have to follow what Allah asked us to. Even if we differ in our understanding in some matters, it not necessarily needed for us to separate from each other.
May Allah guide us all towards the truth pr
Mohammed M. Khan -
The concept of sects is one I've been struggling with lately. How can you have discernment between good and bad, and how can you separate yourself from a group like the sunnis who believe in Allah and the last day, but practice shirk...all without creating a sect? It seems by saying we are true muslims and they are sunnis, we have just created a sect called 'true muslims'. I don't see how any group can strive to stay pure without creating a sect in the process.
In my opinion, sectarianism isn't dependent on whether you attribute yourself to a set of beliefs or ideology, it is the resultant behaviour that determines whether you are a sectarian or not. When you disregard universal morals simply because you belong to a group, you are a sectarian. When you refuse to come to common terms with others, simply because they do not belong to your group, you are a sectarian. When you refuse to drink water from a cup offered by someone from a different group, you are a sectarian. When you shoot someone in the head 20+ times for saying something your group does not approve of, you are a sectarian.
There's nothing wrong with holding different beliefs, this natural. Islam teaches pluralism, i.e. tolerating other people's views (as long as they do not threaten the security and safety of the society). What is unislamic is when you deliberately maintain the differences between yourself and those of an out-group when the opportunity arises to come to common terms. I consider myself a 'quranist' but I pray I'm not a sectarian. What does that mean? It means I hold to the truths taught by quran, but I also enjoin good wherever I see it, whether from sunnis, shi'ites, Christians or atheists etc. and forbid evil wherever I see it, including when evil is committed by quranists.
My two cents.
peace
-
by following the quran, I am not splitting into a 'sect'. i am doing what God basically tells me to do. sects are created by people and not by God.
-
As always, I agree with you. So when Allah talks about sects, is he just talking about names of groups that don't get along? By saying we are different than shias, because they have gone astray, does that make us a sect? I hope not, and maybe I am overcomplicating things, but can we avoid breaking into sects by keeping the name muslim and just living according to God's system without contending with sunnis and shias?
I agree... we need to try and be one family and community, and stop calling ourselves QURANIST or GOD ALONERS etc. This includes our sunni brothers; as long as we don't commit shirk, we can be guided together.
@OP
Turn to Him, and be aware of Him, and hold the contact-method, and do not be of those who set up partners, or like those who split-up their system, and they became sects, each group happy with what it had. -
I agree... we need to try and be one family and community, and stop calling ourselves QURANIST or GOD ALONERS etc. This includes our sunni brothers; as long as we don't commit shirk, we can be guided together.
@OP
Turn to Him, and be aware of Him, and hold the contact-method, and do not be of those who set up partners, or like those who split-up their system, and they became sects, each group happy with what it had.I'd love to, but I was at walmart at about 830pm last night, and that is the time that the muslims in the area start shopping, since it's after the maghrib prayer....anyways, walmart was filled with very sad looking beardies in thobes, and for some reason they always make me uncomfortable. They always seem to look upset. It reminds me of the movie looking for comedy in the muslim world, where no one smiles. When I used to go to jummah, people would smile there...but not in public!
-
I agree... we need to try and be one family and community, and stop calling ourselves QURANIST or GOD ALONERS etc. This includes our sunni brothers; as long as we don't commit shirk, we can be guided together.
In chapter 9 it clearly shows living amongst and working with open mushrikeen.
unity, in terms of AQ, does not only rely on what beliefs you have.
-
Peace all,
The most important question from my point of view is
Are we peacemakers (muslimeen) or troublemakers (moujrimeene)?
Spliting into sects is only good if one is looking for troubles, although most of the adherants to sects do it without real knowledge, they only guess.
-
This is a very popular hadith among Sunni muslims as it gives them legitimacy as being the largest sect. I was wondering the opinion of the group on this and any verses from the Qur'an that counter this. I think the hadith contradicts 262 which says "Surely those who believe; and those who are Jewish, and the Nazarenes, and the Sabians, whomever of them believes in God and the Last Day and does good work; they will have their reward with their Lord, with no fear over them, nor will they grieve." What do you think?
(Hafiz Ibn Kathir (Rahimahullah) in The Signs Before The Day of Judgement (pg. 14)
"Awf ibn Malik reported that the Prophet (Peace be upon him) said, 'The Jews split into 71 sects one will enter Paradise and 70 will enter Hell. The Christians split into 72 sects 71 will enter Hell and one will enter Paradise. By Him in Whose hand is my soul, my Ummah will split into 73 sects one will enter Paradise and 72 will enter Hell.' Someone asked, 'O Messenger of Allah (Peace be upon him), who will they be?' He replied, 'The main body of the Muslims (al-Jama'ah).'
As clearly stated by God in the Quran.
GOD IS NON-SECTARIAN also known as SECULAR, GOD IS SECULAR.He doesn't care about sect, cult, religion, races as consideration for passing His judgement
When finally all of the people realize this and thus becoming secular, the sect / cult will lose their appeal, and the sect / cult leaders (read ulema) will lose their power and relevancy.
That's why among the sectarians, secularism are their greatest enemy.That is why they constantly abuses and demonized the concept of 'secularity' up until now.
This attitude is not only commonly found among the Sunnis a.k.a Ahlu Sunnah Wal Jamaah but also among other sectarian / cultist group such as Catholics, Shiites / Ahlul Bayt, Orthodox, Judaism, LDS, Mormons and hundreds others..Salam / Peace
