did Qur'anists know that the prophet has mentioned them ?
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Salaam,
Thereformer1, I previously stated that I sincerely wished that peace be upon you, and that I hope the 'Sunnis' and the 'Quranists' can live in peace regardless what they believe in. However, I must say, that I take offense when you say the people in this website, which will by default include me, are the enemies of Islam. Tell me, do you have the RIGHT to judge other Muslims? No one, I mean NO ONE, has the right to judge what it is within our hearts except God. Frankly, your debate screams arrogance. Why? Because you think what you believe is the right one. You believe because you speak Arabic, everyone else must be inferior to you.
As I said previously we can be wrong, you can be right. But there is also a possibility (as high as the former one), that you are wrong, and we are right. Do not be arrogant and dismiss others' belief just because they are not born Arabic. It's not the language skills that matter, it is one's ability to attain knowledge. So please, stop acting like you are holier than us.
Well said. http//img229.imageshack.us/img229/5072/smilingplanet.gif
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Well said. http//img229.imageshack.us/img229/5072/smilingplanet.gif
ah Leyna, I see that you didn't answer my question do you pray five times a day?
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Salaam.
The truth is it's not that we lack knowledge, it is more like you THINK we lack knowledge because our parameters of making judgment are different to yours. So that will mean, by the way, any evidence that you present to us will be rendered incredible because we do not follow hadiths. If you want to make arguments, please use Qur'anic verses to support them, as we all have been doing. But then again, you won't take the verses as sufficient, because you need to use the words of men to explain God's words because He isn't clear enough.
Look, what I'm saying is, everything that you have said regarding the truth, is based on what you think. And has it occurred to you that you may not be the right one? Leave God to decide and leave us strive for the cause of God. And you won't see us stoning to death, declaring wars here and there; you'll see that we will strive peacefully.
The prophetS (note the plural form) were sent by the absolute Truth, the God. They were warners and deliverers of God's message. I respect them equally and I do not elevate one's status over another. They all bore the same burden and they'll all be rewarded. However, I believe that the muhaditheen or the scholars are not the absolute. For my spiritual guidance, I do not make binding what is not from The Absolute. The Qur'an was sent down by God, the Absolute, that is what I follow. The hadiths were written by men and judged by men, who are not absolute, and by that, I do not take their words and opinions as religiously binding.
I don't know maybe I'm wrong or maybe not, but surely the percentage of being wrong is 20% and of being not 80%.
Still, the possibility exists, as nothing is absolute. We're all gambling our fate with what we believe in. Hey I can be wrong and you can be right. I don't see why you'll have problems with that. At least when I burn in hell, you won't join me there .
Salaam.
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I don't know maybe I'm wrong or maybe not, but surely the percentage of being wrong is 20% and of being not 80%.
Peace,
Umm that's quite a bold statement. What makes you think you're more likely to be right than wrong?
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Do you think and believe that all hadith mentioned as Sahih by learned Bukhari ar Sahih and Hassan or some of them you reject as false and untrue?
well, that's depend on how you see the Sahih and how you see the Daef , there are a rules of seeing the daef but there are rules of seeing the Sahih, the conditions of seeing the Sahih are five and the conditions of seing Al Hadith Al Hassan which two things Al-Hadith Al Hassal li Dateh and Al Hadith Al-Hassan li Ghayreh . the rules of seing the hadith Adaef which is differ from Madhab to Madhab and they divise it into 6 parts of using it. without knowing these basics about hadith, you should not reject anything of it.
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Salaam.
The truth is it's not that we lack knowledge, it is more like you THINK we lack knowledge because our parameters of making judgment are different to yours. So that will mean, by the way, any evidence that you present to us will be rendered incredible because we do not follow hadiths. If you want to make arguments, please use Qur'anic verses to support them, as we all have been doing. But then again, you won't take the verses as sufficient, because you need to use the words of men to explain God's words because He isn't clear enough.
Look, what I'm saying is, everything that you have said regarding the truth, is based on what you think. And has it occurred to you that you may not be the right one? Leave God to decide and leave us strive for the cause of God. And you won't see us stoning to death, declaring wars here and there; you'll see that we will strive peacefully.
The prophetS (note the plural form) were sent by the absolute Truth, the God. They were warners and deliverers of God's message. I respect them equally and I do not elevate one's status over another. They all bore the same burden and they'll all be rewarded. However, I believe that the muhaditheen or the scholars are not the absolute. For my spiritual guidance, I do not make binding what is not from The Absolute. The Qur'an was sent down by God, the Absolute, that is what I follow. The hadiths were written by men and judged by men, who are not absolute, and by that, I do not take their words and opinions as religiously binding.Wa Alaykom-Asallam,
you see that's why I said lack of knowledge . because as I said every post of mine was not ahadith, they were all jusification from Qur'an (the only hadith is the hadith in the thread).
and you know why I said lack of knowledge because no one from you can choose a good verse to justify .
why I said lack of knowledge none of you can interpret the verse in a good way .
why I said lack of knoweldge because you're in a position of weakness where I know things better than you .
why I said lack of knowledge because an relative thing can turn to absolute .
why I said lack of knowledge your parameters are not so strong as you pretending they are ....etc.
Still, the possibility exists, as nothing is absolute. We're all gambling our fate with what we believe in. Hey I can be wrong and you can be right. I don't see why you'll have problems with that. At least when I burn in hell, you won't join me there .
Salaam.I don't want from you to born in Hell, A Muslim should warn his brother in Islam .
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Peace,
Umm that's quite a bold statement. What makes you think you're more likely to be right than wrong?Salamo Alaykom,
well, for one reason " the community of Sunnah people know better God's book " . what Quranists can't stand and afford.
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Salaam,
I'm sorry to say, you scream out arrogance right now! As I said, YOU THINK we lack knowledge. It's all in YOUR head. But what YOU think is not necessarily the Truth. We might lack knowledge about God, but who are you to make that judgment? The absolute is God, the rest is relative. Please Brother, show humility for once and bear in mind 1737.
Personally to me, people of knowledge are the ones who do not think they know better. People of knowledge are the ones who think there are more things to learn and reflect, the ones who think their knowledge is less than sufficient. I do not think I have more knowledge than you do; I only do what my heart tells me to do, through continuous study and constructively discussing with open minded people.
I'm off to bed, but I have questions (off-topic) that I'd like you to answer. But please answer it after thinking for some time
- What is Islam to you?
- What do you think we need to attain paradise? And please do not answer generally, like... following God's commandments and the prophet's Sunnah. Do answer what you do, or have tried, or will commit to do, in order to perfect your deen.
- When you say you want to warn other brothers/sisters in Islam, which is based on your beliefs, what is your reason? Is it that you genuinely care about our fate? Is it because you really want to do it for God? Is it because you really want to establish Peace, which is what Islam is all about?
Or maybe... is it because
You want people to think same way like you do? Is it because you cannot stand seeing people being different from you? Is it because you feel that your identity as a 'Muslim' is threatened? Is it because that you fear that other muslims do not represent the Arabs community hence you will lose your perceived identity?
Salaam.
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Salamo Alaykom,
well, for one reason " the community of Sunnah people know better God's book " . what Quranists can't stand and afford.
Just can't resist to respond. Again, you're using the word of man, and not the word of God. Using your reason therefore, other prophets who passed away before Muhammad (Isa, Musa, Ibrahim, Ishma'il, Yaqub, etc) did not know better since they were not ahlussunnah wal jama'ah, and they were the people of sunatullah instead. Therefore, what will happen to them? Clearly they were not using the kitabs that the muhaditheen compiled for their spiritual guidance.
Salaam.
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Salaam,
Wa Alaykom Asallam
I'm sorry to say, you scream out arrogance right now! As I said, YOU THINK we lack knowledge. It's all in YOUR head. But what YOU think is not necessarily the Truth. We might lack knowledge about God, but who are you to make that judgment? The absolute is God, the rest is relative. Please Brother, show humility for once and bear in mind 1737.
there is no reason for stating a verse, I can state hundred and they all will refer to you, so let's cut this thing off the subject.
Personally to me, people of knowledge are the ones who do not think they know better. People of knowledge are the ones who think there are more things to learn and reflect, the ones who think their knowledge is less than sufficient. I do not think I have more knowledge than you do; I only do what my heart tells me to do, through continuous study and constructively discussing with open minded people.
God says "but over all endued with knowledge is One, the All-Knowing."
I'm off to bed, but I have questions (off-topic) that I'd like you to answer. But please answer it after thinking for some time
ok, Have a sweet dreams.
- What is Islam to you?
this is a question can be answered by hundred answer at least....!!!
anyways I'm stating one Islam is the religion that God has chosen for his prophets and their followers, and it's the submission to the Almighty one the God "Allah".
- What do you think we need to attain paradise? And please do not answer generally, like... following God's commandments and the prophet's Sunnah. Do answer what you do, or have tried, or will commit to do, in order to perfect your deen.
I don't think that we need attain paradise because after all it depends in our behaviors over the others people, God can forgive your behaviors over him but he can't forgive your behaviors over his creatures.
you know that I've met people that they said that they need to attain hell, why do you think that you're different from them?
- When you say you want to warn other brothers/sisters in Islam, which is based on your beliefs, what is your reason? Is it that you genuinely care about our fate? Is it because you really want to do it for God? Is it because you really want to establish Peace, which is what Islam is all about?
In fact none of the questions describe why I warn other brothers/sisters in Islam .
Or maybe... is it because
You want people to think same way like you do? Is it because you cannot stand seeing people being different from you? Is it because you feel that your identity as a 'Muslim' is threatened? Is it because that you fear that other muslims do not represent the Arabs community hence you will lose your perceived identity?
Salaam.if you're talking about warning people in this website alone, I must say that none of these answers describe why I want to warn my brothers/sisters in Islam. I've joined this website because I've read some topic in it where some members here take some ahadihs as jokes ( this is my reason of joining this website) my aim of warning them is proving that they are wrong ( I'm not preaching anyone)
ah by the way you talk like we have different beliefs, let me remind you that we have the same beliefs.
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Just can't resist to respond. Again, you're using the word of man, and not the word of God. Using your reason therefore, other prophets who passed away before Muhammad (Isa, Musa, Ibrahim, Ishma'il, Yaqub, etc) did not know better since they were not ahlussunnah wal jama'ah, and they were the people of sunatullah instead. Therefore, what will happen to them? Clearly they were not using the kitabs that the muhaditheen compiled for their spiritual guidance.
Salaam.we don't talk about past, we are today and today there is sunnah which is two thing sunnah of the prophet and sunnah of Allah, they are the same thing and they go in the same straight line, so using one of them can make this straight line crooked
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Salamo Alaykom,
well, for one reason " the community of Sunnah people know better God's book " . what Quranists can't stand and afford.
rotfl Please stop! You're just too funny!
Anyways I have better things to do than to debate with an arrogant person like you so.. salam peace -
we don't talk about past, we are today and today there is sunnah which is two thing sunnah of the prophet and sunnah of Allah, they are the same thing and they go in the same straight line, so using one of them can make this straight line crooked
NO body in their right mind would say -
"they are the same thing and they go in the same straight line, but only one of them will make the straight line crooked"
Can anyone?
peace
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well, that's depend on how you see the Sahih and how you see the Daef , there are a rules of seeing the daef but there are rules of seeing the Sahih, the conditions of seeing the Sahih are five and the conditions of seing Al Hadith Al Hassan which two things Al-Hadith Al Hassal li Dateh and Al Hadith Al-Hassan li Ghayreh . the rules of seing the hadith Adaef which is differ from Madhab to Madhab and they divise it into 6 parts of using it. without knowing these basics about hadith, you should not reject anything of it.
The question was straight forward, only about Sahih Bukhari. Do you believe all hadith of Shahih Bukhari or reject many of them.
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NO body in their right mind would say -
"they are the same thing and they go in the same straight line, but only one of them will make the straight line crooked"
Can anyone?
peacetry to be frank !!! what's your point ?
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The question was straight forward, only about Sahih Bukhari. Do you believe all hadith of Shahih Bukhari or reject many of them.
Everything in Sahih al Bukhari is right , I do not reject any kind of hadith because I must study it then see if I can reject it or not.
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try to be frank !!! what's your point ?
peace
From your statement the sunnah of the prophet and sunnah of Allah
are both the same- Okay
go in the same straight line- OkayHow and why would they be crooked on their own then- as you seem to think?
peace
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Salamun alaikum,
Just logged on and many more posts! My, you've been an active little transformer...
You cannot say, Everything in sahih bukhari is right. Then say you study and AFTER that you reject it. So how can you say you accept all of it, if you are going in with the intention of 'sorting' implying that you have some knowledge that some is correct or not?
brother transformer - this is not debating. Time and time again, people have asked you questions, but you are not to the point nor succint about your responses, instead you ramble about what you know and what others.
You accuse people here of interpreting according their own whims - to be clear, I am accusing YOU of doing the same thing.
I previously quoted verses to show you WHO was calling the prophets 'bewitched' and you didn't understand that this is not fixed to a time period - otherwise why mention it? Do you think that the Quran is a history book, full of stories? There are the clear law giving verses which are understood within the context they are presented and then there are the oft-repeated/allegorical - which DO have 'shading' of meaning. Some will understand, others will not.
Also, your comments that the prophet CAN be bewitched is clearly mentioning people like YOU who say that the prophet was bewitched - it is YOU who called those people infidels, not I. THAT was the point of mentioning those verses. Also, you say that the hadiths show that the Prophet(S) was bewitched for a reason - in order to abolish witchcraft - shows that the person who fabricated that hadith believed in witchcraft and it's effects. If witchcraft exists - I ask you to prove it - or will you say that the witchcraft of THOSE days no longer exists? What do you call the rampant belief in amulets and verse-mantras that people from the indo-pak continent keep going on about to ward off evil spirits? Is that not 'witchcraft'? In fact its nonsense, but you can't prove that witchcraft is real...
Then you talk about 'shadings' again - and blatantly ignore what was written. Again, your arrogance to assume that you are right and we are wrong...
what ? yes the prophet was Mortal, what do you mean that he wasn't ?
No, thats not what I meant - of course he was mortal, I meant that there are better ways of showing that he was mortal rather than proving that he was someone who could be bewitched. But you didn't see that.what again ? Yes Magic exists and God told us about his power but at the same time told us that who has been attacked by Magic, he has to be patient because after all he is under the mercy of God and this is a test for him(the bewitched) to see his real faith .
PROVE that magic exists...my brother, the Jewish were magicians and they have used magic to separate the man from his wife. Go read a little bit of Qur'an , there are more than 10 verses talk about Magic.
FIND me a jewish magician who can do this. I will pay for that show...You ask me to read the quran - stop paying lip service to it and YOU should actually read it. The verses you speak about - as an example I assume you mean 2102 about harut and marut...
2102 (They had followed conjecture in the past as well.) Some satanic people spread a rumor in the Kingdom of Solomon. Solomon never disbelieved in the Divine laws, but the satanic people did. They fabricated a story that two angels Haaroot and Maaroot had descended in Babylon and taught magic to some people; and that they used to warn people, ?We are only a temptation, therefore be not oblivious to the rational Divine laws.? The rumor further stated that people learned magic from both of them and learned how to create discord between a man and his wife. They could harm none against the Divine laws. And what they try to learn only harms them and does not profit them. They ought to know that any person indulging in this trade (the so-called occult sciences) will be a loser in the long run, and shall have no portion in the Hereafter. Certainly, evil is the price for which they sell their humanity, if they but knew.
you need to understand that nothing contradicts the laws of nature and this verse talks not about them teaching magic - think again...there is no such thing...
Accusing someone on this thread of being blind to your posts or that the only way is YOUR way as you understand is totally wrong. Especially when you use circular arguments to prove your hadith as being divinely inspired. What you also forget is that some of the people here may have started off with your faith - but have since attained belief...I mean you no harm, but if you ask a question, stop evading someone's response with 'ah...the shading...you won't understand it...'
Peace
d