did Qur'anists know that the prophet has mentioned them ?
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Salaam,
I'm sorry to say, you scream out arrogance right now! As I said, YOU THINK we lack knowledge. It's all in YOUR head. But what YOU think is not necessarily the Truth. We might lack knowledge about God, but who are you to make that judgment? The absolute is God, the rest is relative. Please Brother, show humility for once and bear in mind 1737.
Personally to me, people of knowledge are the ones who do not think they know better. People of knowledge are the ones who think there are more things to learn and reflect, the ones who think their knowledge is less than sufficient. I do not think I have more knowledge than you do; I only do what my heart tells me to do, through continuous study and constructively discussing with open minded people.
I'm off to bed, but I have questions (off-topic) that I'd like you to answer. But please answer it after thinking for some time
- What is Islam to you?
- What do you think we need to attain paradise? And please do not answer generally, like... following God's commandments and the prophet's Sunnah. Do answer what you do, or have tried, or will commit to do, in order to perfect your deen.
- When you say you want to warn other brothers/sisters in Islam, which is based on your beliefs, what is your reason? Is it that you genuinely care about our fate? Is it because you really want to do it for God? Is it because you really want to establish Peace, which is what Islam is all about?
Or maybe... is it because
You want people to think same way like you do? Is it because you cannot stand seeing people being different from you? Is it because you feel that your identity as a 'Muslim' is threatened? Is it because that you fear that other muslims do not represent the Arabs community hence you will lose your perceived identity?
Salaam.
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Salamo Alaykom,
well, for one reason " the community of Sunnah people know better God's book " . what Quranists can't stand and afford.
Just can't resist to respond. Again, you're using the word of man, and not the word of God. Using your reason therefore, other prophets who passed away before Muhammad (Isa, Musa, Ibrahim, Ishma'il, Yaqub, etc) did not know better since they were not ahlussunnah wal jama'ah, and they were the people of sunatullah instead. Therefore, what will happen to them? Clearly they were not using the kitabs that the muhaditheen compiled for their spiritual guidance.
Salaam.
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Salaam,
Wa Alaykom Asallam
I'm sorry to say, you scream out arrogance right now! As I said, YOU THINK we lack knowledge. It's all in YOUR head. But what YOU think is not necessarily the Truth. We might lack knowledge about God, but who are you to make that judgment? The absolute is God, the rest is relative. Please Brother, show humility for once and bear in mind 1737.
there is no reason for stating a verse, I can state hundred and they all will refer to you, so let's cut this thing off the subject.
Personally to me, people of knowledge are the ones who do not think they know better. People of knowledge are the ones who think there are more things to learn and reflect, the ones who think their knowledge is less than sufficient. I do not think I have more knowledge than you do; I only do what my heart tells me to do, through continuous study and constructively discussing with open minded people.
God says "but over all endued with knowledge is One, the All-Knowing."
I'm off to bed, but I have questions (off-topic) that I'd like you to answer. But please answer it after thinking for some time
ok, Have a sweet dreams.
- What is Islam to you?
this is a question can be answered by hundred answer at least....!!!
anyways I'm stating one Islam is the religion that God has chosen for his prophets and their followers, and it's the submission to the Almighty one the God "Allah".
- What do you think we need to attain paradise? And please do not answer generally, like... following God's commandments and the prophet's Sunnah. Do answer what you do, or have tried, or will commit to do, in order to perfect your deen.
I don't think that we need attain paradise because after all it depends in our behaviors over the others people, God can forgive your behaviors over him but he can't forgive your behaviors over his creatures.
you know that I've met people that they said that they need to attain hell, why do you think that you're different from them?
- When you say you want to warn other brothers/sisters in Islam, which is based on your beliefs, what is your reason? Is it that you genuinely care about our fate? Is it because you really want to do it for God? Is it because you really want to establish Peace, which is what Islam is all about?
In fact none of the questions describe why I warn other brothers/sisters in Islam .
Or maybe... is it because
You want people to think same way like you do? Is it because you cannot stand seeing people being different from you? Is it because you feel that your identity as a 'Muslim' is threatened? Is it because that you fear that other muslims do not represent the Arabs community hence you will lose your perceived identity?
Salaam.if you're talking about warning people in this website alone, I must say that none of these answers describe why I want to warn my brothers/sisters in Islam. I've joined this website because I've read some topic in it where some members here take some ahadihs as jokes ( this is my reason of joining this website) my aim of warning them is proving that they are wrong ( I'm not preaching anyone)
ah by the way you talk like we have different beliefs, let me remind you that we have the same beliefs.
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Just can't resist to respond. Again, you're using the word of man, and not the word of God. Using your reason therefore, other prophets who passed away before Muhammad (Isa, Musa, Ibrahim, Ishma'il, Yaqub, etc) did not know better since they were not ahlussunnah wal jama'ah, and they were the people of sunatullah instead. Therefore, what will happen to them? Clearly they were not using the kitabs that the muhaditheen compiled for their spiritual guidance.
Salaam.we don't talk about past, we are today and today there is sunnah which is two thing sunnah of the prophet and sunnah of Allah, they are the same thing and they go in the same straight line, so using one of them can make this straight line crooked
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Salamo Alaykom,
well, for one reason " the community of Sunnah people know better God's book " . what Quranists can't stand and afford.
rotfl Please stop! You're just too funny!
Anyways I have better things to do than to debate with an arrogant person like you so.. salam peace -
we don't talk about past, we are today and today there is sunnah which is two thing sunnah of the prophet and sunnah of Allah, they are the same thing and they go in the same straight line, so using one of them can make this straight line crooked
NO body in their right mind would say -
"they are the same thing and they go in the same straight line, but only one of them will make the straight line crooked"
Can anyone?
peace
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well, that's depend on how you see the Sahih and how you see the Daef , there are a rules of seeing the daef but there are rules of seeing the Sahih, the conditions of seeing the Sahih are five and the conditions of seing Al Hadith Al Hassan which two things Al-Hadith Al Hassal li Dateh and Al Hadith Al-Hassan li Ghayreh . the rules of seing the hadith Adaef which is differ from Madhab to Madhab and they divise it into 6 parts of using it. without knowing these basics about hadith, you should not reject anything of it.
The question was straight forward, only about Sahih Bukhari. Do you believe all hadith of Shahih Bukhari or reject many of them.
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NO body in their right mind would say -
"they are the same thing and they go in the same straight line, but only one of them will make the straight line crooked"
Can anyone?
peacetry to be frank !!! what's your point ?
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The question was straight forward, only about Sahih Bukhari. Do you believe all hadith of Shahih Bukhari or reject many of them.
Everything in Sahih al Bukhari is right , I do not reject any kind of hadith because I must study it then see if I can reject it or not.
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try to be frank !!! what's your point ?
peace
From your statement the sunnah of the prophet and sunnah of Allah
are both the same- Okay
go in the same straight line- OkayHow and why would they be crooked on their own then- as you seem to think?
peace
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Salamun alaikum,
Just logged on and many more posts! My, you've been an active little transformer...
You cannot say, Everything in sahih bukhari is right. Then say you study and AFTER that you reject it. So how can you say you accept all of it, if you are going in with the intention of 'sorting' implying that you have some knowledge that some is correct or not?
brother transformer - this is not debating. Time and time again, people have asked you questions, but you are not to the point nor succint about your responses, instead you ramble about what you know and what others.
You accuse people here of interpreting according their own whims - to be clear, I am accusing YOU of doing the same thing.
I previously quoted verses to show you WHO was calling the prophets 'bewitched' and you didn't understand that this is not fixed to a time period - otherwise why mention it? Do you think that the Quran is a history book, full of stories? There are the clear law giving verses which are understood within the context they are presented and then there are the oft-repeated/allegorical - which DO have 'shading' of meaning. Some will understand, others will not.
Also, your comments that the prophet CAN be bewitched is clearly mentioning people like YOU who say that the prophet was bewitched - it is YOU who called those people infidels, not I. THAT was the point of mentioning those verses. Also, you say that the hadiths show that the Prophet(S) was bewitched for a reason - in order to abolish witchcraft - shows that the person who fabricated that hadith believed in witchcraft and it's effects. If witchcraft exists - I ask you to prove it - or will you say that the witchcraft of THOSE days no longer exists? What do you call the rampant belief in amulets and verse-mantras that people from the indo-pak continent keep going on about to ward off evil spirits? Is that not 'witchcraft'? In fact its nonsense, but you can't prove that witchcraft is real...
Then you talk about 'shadings' again - and blatantly ignore what was written. Again, your arrogance to assume that you are right and we are wrong...
what ? yes the prophet was Mortal, what do you mean that he wasn't ?
No, thats not what I meant - of course he was mortal, I meant that there are better ways of showing that he was mortal rather than proving that he was someone who could be bewitched. But you didn't see that.what again ? Yes Magic exists and God told us about his power but at the same time told us that who has been attacked by Magic, he has to be patient because after all he is under the mercy of God and this is a test for him(the bewitched) to see his real faith .
PROVE that magic exists...my brother, the Jewish were magicians and they have used magic to separate the man from his wife. Go read a little bit of Qur'an , there are more than 10 verses talk about Magic.
FIND me a jewish magician who can do this. I will pay for that show...You ask me to read the quran - stop paying lip service to it and YOU should actually read it. The verses you speak about - as an example I assume you mean 2102 about harut and marut...
2102 (They had followed conjecture in the past as well.) Some satanic people spread a rumor in the Kingdom of Solomon. Solomon never disbelieved in the Divine laws, but the satanic people did. They fabricated a story that two angels Haaroot and Maaroot had descended in Babylon and taught magic to some people; and that they used to warn people, ?We are only a temptation, therefore be not oblivious to the rational Divine laws.? The rumor further stated that people learned magic from both of them and learned how to create discord between a man and his wife. They could harm none against the Divine laws. And what they try to learn only harms them and does not profit them. They ought to know that any person indulging in this trade (the so-called occult sciences) will be a loser in the long run, and shall have no portion in the Hereafter. Certainly, evil is the price for which they sell their humanity, if they but knew.
you need to understand that nothing contradicts the laws of nature and this verse talks not about them teaching magic - think again...there is no such thing...
Accusing someone on this thread of being blind to your posts or that the only way is YOUR way as you understand is totally wrong. Especially when you use circular arguments to prove your hadith as being divinely inspired. What you also forget is that some of the people here may have started off with your faith - but have since attained belief...I mean you no harm, but if you ask a question, stop evading someone's response with 'ah...the shading...you won't understand it...'
Peace
d -
peace
From your statement the sunnah of the prophet and sunnah of Allah
are both the same- Okay
go in the same straight line- Okay
How and why would they be crooked on their own then- as you seem to think?
peacethey will be crooked for one reason that one depends on the other one like mechanics and electrics, the root of electrics is mechanics, and without electrics, mechanics will seem silly .
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they will be crooked for one reason that one depends on the other one like mechanics and electrics, the root of electrics is mechanics, and without electrics, mechanics will seem silly .
brickwall
I give up.
peace
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Salamun alaikum,
Just logged on and many more posts! My, you've been an active little transformer...Wa Alaykom Assallam,
between " I'm the refomer " not transformer" .
You cannot say, Everything in sahih bukhari is right. Then say you study and AFTER that you reject it. So how can you say you accept all of it, if you are going in with the intention of 'sorting' implying that you have some knowledge that some is correct or not?
well, you're wrong , I can say everything in Sahih Bukhari is right. ah by the way I don't reject any hadith even the Daef.
look I've studied Hadiths and I've never found anything contradicts with Qur'an as you guys claimed.brother transformer - this is not debating. Time and time again, people have asked you questions, but you are not to the point nor succint about your responses, instead you ramble about what you know and what others.
Again I'm therefomer1 ). Yes you're right this is not debating, this is a competition where is just one winner( I think I've already won). People have asked me questions and they got their answers, in the other hand I've asked them questions but they didn't answer.
You accuse people here of interpreting according their own whims - to be clear, I am accusing YOU of doing the same thing.
No, wrong again I don't do the same thing, I'm still hiding my own interpretations, I'm just talking with them what I have studied, my own interpretations will end the conversation.
I previously quoted verses to show you WHO was calling the prophets 'bewitched' and you didn't understand that this is not fixed to a time period - otherwise why mention it? Do you think that the Quran is a history book, full of stories? There are the clear law giving verses which are understood within the context they are presented and then there are the oft-repeated/allegorical - which DO have 'shading' of meaning. Some will understand, others will not.
first of all there is a difference between calling the prophet"bewitched" and prophet was bewitched .
second of all calling the prophet bewitched was when the prophet called people to Islam and to worship one God, this was a new thing for the people there and at this time the wichcraft was a bad thing and a severe curse, so the people who denied the prophet, they convinced people that this man was bewitched.
third of all when the prophet was bewitched was after the message of Islam has spread and everyone knew Islam, and he was at this time married Aisha, plus Aisha knew better than anyone what's happened to the prophet, unless if you're calling her a liar?????
You want to know why mention it ?? because this was the same thing that every nation through history said about their prophets in the beginning of the message .
Also, your comments that the prophet CAN be bewitched is clearly mentioning people like YOU who say that the prophet was bewitched - it is YOU who called those people infidels, not I. THAT was the point of mentioning those verses. Also, you say that the hadiths show that the Prophet(S) was bewitched for a reason - in order to abolish witchcraft - shows that the person who fabricated that hadith believed in witchcraft and it's effects. If witchcraft exists - I ask you to prove it - or will you say that the witchcraft of THOSE days no longer exists? What do you call the rampant belief in amulets and verse-mantras that people from the indo-pak continent keep going on about to ward off evil spirits? Is that not 'witchcraft'? In fact its nonsense, but you can't prove that witchcraft is real...
what ? are you saying that whichcraft is not real? where are you from?, where I live whichcraft can be easy to learn even that there is a book called "Domyatti" contain spells and curses and the way of using whichcraft and it is so hard to read it or even touch it, sorcery where I live is so dangerous even they said that my country where I live is the country of learning magic and whichcraft. And I usually see people here bewitched. well as I see you maybe live in antactica lol
Then you talk about 'shadings' again - and blatantly ignore what was written. Again, your arrogance to assume that you are right and we are wrong...
well, as the proverb said " where you find yourself right, don't take advice from someone himself wrong"
what ? yes the prophet was Mortal, what do you mean that he wasn't ?
sorry, you have said he wasn't not I.
No, thats not what I meant - of course he was mortal, I meant that there are better ways of showing that he was mortal rather than proving that he was someone who could be bewitched. But you didn't see that.
we don't need to show anyone anything, it is the prophet of Allah and it is human , what did you expect ?
what again ? Yes Magic exists and God told us about his power but at the same time told us that who has been attacked by Magic, he has to be patient because after all he is under the mercy of God and this is a test for him(the bewitched) to see his real faith .
PROVE that magic exists...there are more than 20 verses talk about magic and it's power. Do you know the history of Jewish magicians in the age of solayman peace be upon him?
I can prove magic, it's easy to prove it. have you ever watched Chris Angel or copperfield "anyway they do a simple magic" ? where I live there is the black magic and the white magic.
my brother, the Jewish were magicians and they have used magic to separate the man from his wife. Go read a little bit of Qur'an , there are more than 10 verses talk about Magic.
FIND me a jewish magician who can do this. I will pay for that show...ok , the jewish in the age of solayman were magicians and they have learnt how to separate a wife from his husband.Now arabs are the best in this field .
http//www.dailymotion.com/video/xsgzc_chris-angel-mindfreak_fun
You ask me to read the quran - stop paying lip service to it and YOU should actually read it. The verses you speak about - as an example I assume you mean 2102 about harut and marut...
2102 (They had followed conjecture in the past as well.) Some satanic people spread a rumor in the Kingdom of Solomon. Solomon never disbelieved in the Divine laws, but the satanic people did. They fabricated a story that two angels Haaroot and Maaroot had descended in Babylon and taught magic to some people; and that they used to warn people, ?We are only a temptation, therefore be not oblivious to the rational Divine laws.? The rumor further stated that people learned magic from both of them and learned how to create discord between a man and his wife. They could harm none against the Divine laws. And what they try to learn only harms them and does not profit them. They ought to know that any person indulging in this trade (the so-called occult sciences) will be a loser in the long run, and shall have no portion in the Hereafter. Certainly, evil is the price for which they sell their humanity, if they but knew.
you need to understand that nothing contradicts the laws of nature and this verse talks not about them teaching magic - think again...there is no such thing...
Accusing someone on this thread of being blind to your posts or that the only way is YOUR way as you understand is totally wrong. Especially when you use circular arguments to prove your hadith as being divinely inspired. What you also forget is that some of the people here may have started off with your faith - but have since attained belief...what do you mean by nothing contradicts with laws of nature ? do you know what laws of nature mentionned in Qur'an?
I can cite thousands of supernatural activities and abnormal issues contradicts with laws of nature . specify what law of nature?
by the way the verse is not translated in a good way see this
God said " They followed what the evil ones gave out (falsely) against the power of Sulaiman the blasphemers were, not Sulaiman, but the evil ones, teaching men magic, and such things as came down at Babylon to the angels Harut and Marut. But neither of these taught anyone (such things) without saying "We are only for trial; so do not blaspheme." They learned from them the means to sow discord between man and wife. But they could not thus harm anyone except by Allah's permission. And they learned what harmed them, not what profited them. And they knew that the buyers of (magic) would have no share in the happiness of the Hereafter. And vile was the price for which they did sell their souls, if they but knew!"
where did you get your translation of Qur'an in english ? it is wrong translated.
Now , I'm sure that the problem is in the translation of the verses and maybe also of the hadiths (wrong translation lead to wrong understanding).
I mean you no harm, but if you ask a question, stop evading someone's response with 'ah...the shading...you won't understand it...'
PeaceYeah (see above ) every verse with its context and every context of a verse with its shadings. it is important to know that because you'll not understand the verse at all even if you think that you did.
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That reminds me of "El Tabie El Domyati" ... mmh, I think I'm craving some fuul and t3ameya now ... eat
hahahaha, I think talking too much with Egyptians influenced in your taste of picking up food rotfl .
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hahahaha, I think talking too much with Egyptians influenced in your taste of picking up food rotfl .
Not talking to them ... living there. ) I love Egyptian-style breakfast and never get tired of it. My first job in Cairo was in a large company in Mohandesseen, very close to one of Tabie's restaurants, and I would order food from there every single day.
But then I've always liked that sort of food. And even my mother used to make hummus, so it wasn't particularly new for me.
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Not talking to them ... living there. ) I love Egyptian-style breakfast and never get tired of it. My first job in Cairo was in a large company in Mohandesseen, very close to one of Tabie's restaurants, and I would order food from there every single day.
But then I've always liked that sort of food. And even my mother used to make hummus, so it wasn't particularly new for me.
so you're living in Egypt and living in Mohandesseen, the prestige place there ) lol. ok Good luck .
where I live (an arabic country) we're classified the third world best kitchen after france and china.