did Qur'anists know that the prophet has mentioned them ?
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hahahaha, I think talking too much with Egyptians influenced in your taste of picking up food rotfl .
Not talking to them ... living there. ) I love Egyptian-style breakfast and never get tired of it. My first job in Cairo was in a large company in Mohandesseen, very close to one of Tabie's restaurants, and I would order food from there every single day.
But then I've always liked that sort of food. And even my mother used to make hummus, so it wasn't particularly new for me.
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Not talking to them ... living there. ) I love Egyptian-style breakfast and never get tired of it. My first job in Cairo was in a large company in Mohandesseen, very close to one of Tabie's restaurants, and I would order food from there every single day.
But then I've always liked that sort of food. And even my mother used to make hummus, so it wasn't particularly new for me.
so you're living in Egypt and living in Mohandesseen, the prestige place there ) lol. ok Good luck .
where I live (an arabic country) we're classified the third world best kitchen after france and china.
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Everything in Sahih al Bukhari is right , I do not reject any kind of hadith because I must study it then see if I can reject it or not.
Everything is right until PROVEN wrong? Wow, someone doesn't get burden of proof. What an easy job the muhadditheen had, huh!
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No, I moved out of Mohandesseen some years ago. I hate this part of town ... too crowded, too smelly, too much harassment, and the people are quite aggressive.
oh what a pity !!! anyways Good luck .
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Everything is right until PROVEN wrong? Wow, someone doesn't get burden of proof. What an easy job the muhadditheen had, huh!
first of all you have to know how you could reject the hadith, ahadith Sahih Al-Bukhari Sahiha, and no one from muhadditheen or scolars or scientists of Islam or shoyoukh have ever said that the ahadith in sahih al-bukhari are wrong, no they just make it Deaf and using the Daef have six conditions and three Madahib works using it .because Daef is Deaf because of its Sanad or because of its Matan or because the rawi not the hadith itself .
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first of all you have to know how you could reject the hadith, ahadith Sahih Al-Bukhari Sahiha, and no one from muhadditheen or scolars or scientists of Islam or shoyoukh have ever said that the ahadith in sahih al-bukhari are wrong, no they just make it Deaf and using the Daef have six conditions and three Madahib works using it .because Daef is Deaf because of its Sanad or because of its Matan or because the rawi not the hadith itself .
I'm curious. Why don't you reject the weak (daif) hadith? I can understand if you accept the sahih (mutawatir and ahad) hadith, but why accept the weak ones as well? Surely these are falsehoods perpetrated in the name of the Messenger?
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I'm curious. Why don't you reject the weak (daif) hadith? I can understand if you accept the sahih (mutawatir and ahad) hadith, but why accept the weak ones as well? Surely these are falsehoods perpetrated in the name of the Messenger?
Yes , you're right it could be falsehoods but there are rules of whether you reject it all or just reject the Sanad or the Matan or the Rawi, the Daef is Deaf because of his weakness comparing it whith the Sahih and the Hassan and when we use it we don't use " " we say "" not " " .
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Salamun alaikum,
Refermer. You say you don't reject daef hadiths. By this same reasoning (even if you take the multi-levelled 'scientific' approach you have to hadith) do you make LAW from these same hadiths or do you reject these daef hadiths to make law with?
You talk about a hadith which does not contradict with the Quran - well you've ALREADY contradicted the quran by saying that the prophet was bewitched, when the quran said that people were liars when they said that about rasool Allah (S).
Again I'm therefomer1. Yes you're right this is not debating, this is a competition where is just one winner( I think I've already won). People have asked me questions and they got their answers, in the other hand I've asked them questions but they didn't answer.
We are here seeking the truth, yet you are on a 'competition' to see who has won, again YOU are trying to be the judge... People have asked you questions, but you always respond with 'you don't understand the shadings but I know the answer anyway'. People HAVE responded to you...
No, wrong again I don't do the same thing, I'm still hiding my own interpretations, I'm just talking with them what I have studied, my own interpretations will end the conversation.
Why do you HIDE your own interpretations? Does that mean you read something, and don't even use your brain to interpret if it is correct or not? you talk about your interpretations ending the conversation - I think they have already turned off a lot of people here because of your refusal to accept the possiblity that there is room for error in your judgment. I do, and so should you. You cannot be ABSOLUTELY right. Thee is only ONE absolute.first of all there is a difference between calling the prophet"bewitched" and prophet was bewitched .
second of all calling the prophet bewitched was when the prophet called people to Islam and to worship one God, this was a new thing for the people there and at this time the wichcraft was a bad thing and a severe curse, so the people who denied the prophet, they convinced people that this man was bewitched.
third of all when the prophet was bewitched was after the message of Islam has spread and everyone knew Islam, and he was at this time married Aisha, plus Aisha knew better than anyone what's happened to the prophet, unless if you're calling her a liar?Huh??
You want to know why mention it ?? because this was the same thing that every nation through history said about their prophets in the beginning of the message.
There is no difference. Calling someone bewitched is an accusation and SAYING like you have from your hadiths and then BELIEVING that he was bewitched is a whole other kind of bad. Your hadiths are LOCKING the quran into time. Why do you ride in a car? Why don't you travel on camel and horse instead? Why do you have airconditioning? You use the internet - why do you do that?
Can I ask you - do you think that the Quran is for ALL time? Then by saying that the only way to understand the quran is to look at the REASON for revelation, says instantly that it was revealed FOR THAT REASON, there and THEN.
Also, something people don't understand
Saying that a hadith is fabricated does NOT mean that AISHA fabricated it - it means that someone FALSELY attributed it to Aisha saying something.
Saying that a hadith is fabricated does NOT mean that AISHA fabricated it - it means that someone FALSELY attributed it to Aisha saying something.
Saying that a hadith is fabricated does NOT mean that AISHA fabricated it - it means that someone FALSELY attributed it to Aisha saying something.
I said it 3 times - in case the witchcraft worked on you...
what ? are you saying that whichcraft is not real? where are you from?, where I live whichcraft can be easy to learn even that there is a book called "Domyatti" contain spells and curses and the way of using whichcraft and it is so hard to read it or even touch it, sorcery where I live is so dangerous even they said that my country where I live is the country of learning magic and whichcraft. And I usually see people here bewitched. well as I see you maybe live in antactica lol
Again, I answer - PROVE TO ME THAT IT IS REAL.
well, as the proverb said " where you find yourself right, don't take advice from someone himself wrong"
WELL SAID!!!
there are more than 20 verses talk about magic and it's power. Do you know the history of Jewish magicians in the age of solayman peace be upon him?
I can prove magic, it's easy to prove it. have you ever watched Chris Angel or copperfield "anyway they do a simple magic" ? where I live there is the black magic and the white magic.
You will use HISTORY to prove the jewish magicians. Also, these tv shows you talk about - they are TRICKSTERS. It is not magic. Again, no proof. meet me in Birmingham and do a witchcraft on me in my lab - and we will see...
Yeah (see above ) every verse with its context and every context of a verse with its shadings. it is important to know that because you'll not understand the verse at all even if you think that you did.
YES, every verse with it's context. Again, WITHOUT hadith - are the previous generations of muslims, those led my the prophets - were they ALL misled because they did not have the CONTEXT of bukhari hadith? The Quran is a timeless book. It explains itself. The context is contained WITHIN the book - not outside it.
The quran is unique in that it provides a test which you can do to see if it is authentic. The hadiths simply say that if you don't believe in hadiths then you are destined to hell. Thats like a liar saying trust me - if you trust him and afterwards you find out he lied you're lost. The quran is truth and asks you to CHECK if it is the truth - so that YOU can realise that it is indeed true.
Peace
d -
Salamun alaikum,
Refermer. You say you don't reject daef hadiths. By this same reasoning (even if you take the multi-levelled 'scientific' approach you have to hadith) do you make LAW from these same hadiths or do you reject these daef hadiths to make law with?Wa Alaykom_Assallam,
Yes, I don't reject it but I don't use it. Reject is too severe . hadith Daef is a witeness for a crime, shall we reject a witness?
You talk about a hadith which does not contradict with the Quran - well you've ALREADY contradicted the quran by saying that the prophet was bewitched, when the quran said that people were liars when they said that about rasool Allah (S).
ok, we will see , I've studied about this hadith and I've sent it to " " where there are people studied hadith years more than me, so I'll see if the hadith is Sahih "" and not as you think "" . I've stated where was the difference between what came in Qur'an and what came in hadith/they are two thing in two different actions.
We are here seeking the truth, yet you are on a 'competition' to see who has won, again YOU are trying to be the judge... People have asked you questions, but you always respond with 'you don't understand the shadings but I know the answer anyway'. People HAVE responded to you...
what truth ?
I've said competition because you guys have made a competition. I've explained that the shadings things is necessary to know the context of the verse.
Why do you HIDE your own interpretations?
my interpretations are about you guys as a Quranists (it can be rude) that's why I'm hiding it.
Does that mean you read something, and don't even use your brain to interpret if it is correct or not?
that doesn't mean anything at all, I've read these things from primary school and I've leanrt how to use my mind very well more than what you think, you know that I've always been contradicting with what my teachers said!!! lol
you talk about your interpretations ending the conversation - I think they have already turned off a lot of people here because of your refusal to accept the possiblity that there is room for error in your judgment. I do, and so should you. You cannot be ABSOLUTELY right. Thee is only ONE absolute.
As I said I didn't say that what I said is absolute but it's not wrong for my opinion (God knows).
There is no difference. Calling someone bewitched is an accusation and SAYING like you have from your hadiths and then BELIEVING that he was bewitched is a whole other kind of bad. Your hadiths are LOCKING the quran into time. Why do you ride in a car? Why don't you travel on camel and horse instead? Why do you have airconditioning? You use the internet - why do you do that?
well, everything with its reasons.
Can I ask you - do you think that the Quran is for ALL time?
Yes of course, something that I can agree with it 100%
Then by saying that the only way to understand the quran is to look at the REASON for revelation, says instantly that it was revealed FOR THAT REASON, there and THEN.
No, I didn't mean that, saying that the only one to comprehend(not understand) the Qur'an is to look at the reason which can be the same reason today with a little bit of difference which mostly time and place and situation of the problems.
Also, something people don't understand
Saying that a hadith is fabricated does NOT mean that AISHA fabricated it - it means that someone FALSELY attributed it to Aisha saying something.how do you know that ? and why they would fabricated it ? ah sorry you didn't read the hadith there are other people with Aisha when she narrated it.
I said it 3 times - in case the witchcraft worked on you...
what do you mean ?
Again, I answer - PROVE TO ME THAT IT IS REAL.
ah you have to visit me lol, but I'll not go with you(I will show you where and you go yourself).
You will use HISTORY to prove the jewish magicians. Also, these tv shows you talk about - they are TRICKSTERS. It is not magic. Again, no proof. meet me in Birmingham and do a witchcraft on me in my lab - and we will see...
I did say that what those people did in TV is just a simple magic(tricks), the magic that exists in several arab countries(including where I live) is powerful and so dangerous, I'll not advice you to look for them.
YES, every verse with it's context. Again, WITHOUT hadith - are the previous generations of muslims, those led my the prophets - were they ALL misled because they did not have the CONTEXT of bukhari hadith? The Quran is a timeless book. It explains itself. The context is contained WITHIN the book - not outside it.
Sorry, but I didn't understand this post.
The quran is unique in that it provides a test which you can do to see if it is authentic. The hadiths simply say that if you don't believe in hadiths then you are destined to hell. Thats like a liar saying trust me - if you trust him and afterwards you find out he lied you're lost. The quran is truth and asks you to CHECK if it is the truth - so that YOU can realise that it is indeed true.
PeaceI know that Qur'an is truth, this thing is 100% authentic, and so the hadiths. It's just you have got hadiths in a state of confusion or you didn't get it right by the explanations and the reasons of the situation of taking it.
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Everything in Sahih al Bukhari is right , I do not reject any kind of hadith because I must study it then see if I can reject it or not.
Have you ever given it a second thought that your belief is self contradictory? You are actually saying that every thing in Sahih al Bukhari is baseless until and unless you study it and conclude at your own if you could reject it or not. So it is everyone's choice to see if he can reject or not. That is the trick of enemies of the Messenger to spread conjectural things, fascinating in nature, so that everyone may pick up of his choice that satisfies his personal idiosyncracies.
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Have you ever given it a second thought that your belief is self contradictory? You are actually saying that every thing in Sahih al Bukhari is baseless until and unless you study it and conclude at your own if you could reject it or not. So it is everyone's choice to see if he can reject or not. That is the trick of enemies of the Messenger to spread conjectural things, fascinating in nature, so that everyone may pick up of his choice that satisfies his personal idiosyncracies.
Have you ever given it a second thought that your belief is not Islam ? .
I'm not saying anything, absolutely I'll not reject any hadith, we have classified it wether it is Sahih or Hassan or Daef, and I'm not concluding at my own, I'm making statements at my own and read books of shoyoukh and comparing to make this statement sure 80%.
the only enemies of the messenger I've seen is the Quranists or the right word that described them very well is UnQuranists.
by the way no one from Sunnah pick up of his choice as you "Quranists" do.
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You are actually saying that every thing in Sahih al Bukhari is baseless until and unless you study it and conclude at your own if you could reject it or not. So it is everyone's choice to see if he can reject or not.
The way I understood it, he was not saying we can decide for ourselves which ahadeeth to accept or reject, but we have to rely on scholars to make that decision for us ... which, imho, makes the whole issue even more dodgy.
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The way I understood it, he was not saying we can decide for ourselves which ahadeeth to accept or reject, but we have to rely on scholars to make that decision for us ... which, imho, makes the whole issue even more dodgy.
Exactly. You can't peddle the idea that Islam is for all mankind if only a select few clergymen can ever 'truly' understand the religion.
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first of all you have to know how you could reject the hadith, ahadith Sahih Al-Bukhari Sahiha, and no one from muhadditheen or scolars or scientists of Islam or shoyoukh have ever said that the ahadith in sahih al-bukhari are wrong, no they just make it Deaf and using the Daef have six conditions and three Madahib works using it .because Daef is Deaf because of its Sanad or because of its Matan or because the rawi not the hadith itself .
Oh good, that's a good start. Ok so Shiekh 'A' reclassifies SAHIH al-bukhari's hadith as DAEEF.
This makes bukhari WRONG in his judgement since he called his collection sahih (he wont even trust ppl who cheat donkeys, masha Allah)
So lets now ask the question, how do we know Shiekh 'A' isnt wrong?
What if Shiekh B says he's wrong? Then we got Shiekh C and on and on.
Lets stop this mockery and follow just one text.
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Have you ever given it a second thought that your belief is not Islam ? .
Have you?
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Andreevici, this guy has not a shred of a doubt that what his ulema tell him is true. That's why he thought the Prophet was bewitched!
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Salamun alaikum,
It is indeed harsh when thereformer thinks that it is WE who are out of the fold of Islam - when Islam is all-accepting...
A few things
If I don't drink alcohol, that means I reject it, no? - do you understand?
You speak about 'shadings' things to know context of the verse - again you are limiting Islam to be the deen of your self-proclaimed ullamas - it is only they who understand, so why question? Wrong. We are all individually responsible for our own understanding, that is why we are commanded to think.
Don't worry about your interpretations about 'quranists' being rude. Speaking for myself - I am not a quranist - but a MONOTHEIST who uses the Quran as his book of guidance. I am sure others here would agree. We are Muslim. Nothing more, nothing less. The labelling comes from you.
It is amazing that you don't mind contradicting what your teachers said (who by definition as teachers would know MORE than you) - do you think that history may be repeating itself?
Next you state it is not wrong for YOU to hold an opinion - so why do you think it is wrong for us? Who are you to judge that WE are wrong?
About > YES, every verse with it's context. Again, WITHOUT hadith - are the previous generations of muslims, those led my the prophets - were they ALL misled because they did not have the CONTEXT of bukhari hadith? The Quran is a timeless book. It explains itself. The context is contained WITHIN the book - not outside it.
It is self explanatory
- Context is vital
- Those who did not have hadith to give 'shading' or context - where they misled? I speak about the communities that were guided by the previous prophets and patriarchs.
- The quran is timeless
- The quran explains itself
- The CONTEXT comes from WITHIN the quran.
Then you talk about the revelation being TRIGGERED by events in the prophets lifetime. So, if certain events didn't happen - does that mean we are 'missing' some guidance?
I said it 3 times, because its magic. it really works. I can't prove it to you, but just believe me, in india, when you repeat things over and over then that thing happens.
You then question WHY would people fabricate a hadith - simple, you can't change the quran, but you can change how it is applied if people are told to rely on something out side the quran - which can be changed... Also, irrespective of who it was or how many there were, there were still fabrications... think of the Last sermon - so many thousands of people, yet 3 different versions...
I am not scared of magic, I once challenged someone to prove it, he fell flat on his face when I showed he was tricking people... i challenge YOU to prove it... get me in touch with these people...
Can't you understand that the Quran causes NO confusion, yet your hadiths cause ALL of it?
Peace
d -
Have you ever given it a second thought that your belief is not Islam ?
Please define Islam.
- A set of dogmatic beliefs, a hierarchy of clergymen, oppression of women, factional infighting.. and so on and so forth.
OR
- Submission to the one and only true ever-lasting God, through his divine revelation of which contains NO doubt.
"This is the Book; in it is guidance sure, without doubt, to those who fear Allah." - 22