did Qur'anists know that the prophet has mentioned them ?
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You are actually saying that every thing in Sahih al Bukhari is baseless until and unless you study it and conclude at your own if you could reject it or not. So it is everyone's choice to see if he can reject or not.
The way I understood it, he was not saying we can decide for ourselves which ahadeeth to accept or reject, but we have to rely on scholars to make that decision for us ... which, imho, makes the whole issue even more dodgy.
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The way I understood it, he was not saying we can decide for ourselves which ahadeeth to accept or reject, but we have to rely on scholars to make that decision for us ... which, imho, makes the whole issue even more dodgy.
Exactly. You can't peddle the idea that Islam is for all mankind if only a select few clergymen can ever 'truly' understand the religion.
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first of all you have to know how you could reject the hadith, ahadith Sahih Al-Bukhari Sahiha, and no one from muhadditheen or scolars or scientists of Islam or shoyoukh have ever said that the ahadith in sahih al-bukhari are wrong, no they just make it Deaf and using the Daef have six conditions and three Madahib works using it .because Daef is Deaf because of its Sanad or because of its Matan or because the rawi not the hadith itself .
Oh good, that's a good start. Ok so Shiekh 'A' reclassifies SAHIH al-bukhari's hadith as DAEEF.
This makes bukhari WRONG in his judgement since he called his collection sahih (he wont even trust ppl who cheat donkeys, masha Allah)
So lets now ask the question, how do we know Shiekh 'A' isnt wrong?
What if Shiekh B says he's wrong? Then we got Shiekh C and on and on.
Lets stop this mockery and follow just one text.
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Have you ever given it a second thought that your belief is not Islam ? .
Have you?
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Andreevici, this guy has not a shred of a doubt that what his ulema tell him is true. That's why he thought the Prophet was bewitched!
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Salamun alaikum,
It is indeed harsh when thereformer thinks that it is WE who are out of the fold of Islam - when Islam is all-accepting...
A few things
If I don't drink alcohol, that means I reject it, no? - do you understand?
You speak about 'shadings' things to know context of the verse - again you are limiting Islam to be the deen of your self-proclaimed ullamas - it is only they who understand, so why question? Wrong. We are all individually responsible for our own understanding, that is why we are commanded to think.
Don't worry about your interpretations about 'quranists' being rude. Speaking for myself - I am not a quranist - but a MONOTHEIST who uses the Quran as his book of guidance. I am sure others here would agree. We are Muslim. Nothing more, nothing less. The labelling comes from you.
It is amazing that you don't mind contradicting what your teachers said (who by definition as teachers would know MORE than you) - do you think that history may be repeating itself?
Next you state it is not wrong for YOU to hold an opinion - so why do you think it is wrong for us? Who are you to judge that WE are wrong?
About > YES, every verse with it's context. Again, WITHOUT hadith - are the previous generations of muslims, those led my the prophets - were they ALL misled because they did not have the CONTEXT of bukhari hadith? The Quran is a timeless book. It explains itself. The context is contained WITHIN the book - not outside it.
It is self explanatory
- Context is vital
- Those who did not have hadith to give 'shading' or context - where they misled? I speak about the communities that were guided by the previous prophets and patriarchs.
- The quran is timeless
- The quran explains itself
- The CONTEXT comes from WITHIN the quran.
Then you talk about the revelation being TRIGGERED by events in the prophets lifetime. So, if certain events didn't happen - does that mean we are 'missing' some guidance?
I said it 3 times, because its magic. it really works. I can't prove it to you, but just believe me, in india, when you repeat things over and over then that thing happens.
You then question WHY would people fabricate a hadith - simple, you can't change the quran, but you can change how it is applied if people are told to rely on something out side the quran - which can be changed... Also, irrespective of who it was or how many there were, there were still fabrications... think of the Last sermon - so many thousands of people, yet 3 different versions...
I am not scared of magic, I once challenged someone to prove it, he fell flat on his face when I showed he was tricking people... i challenge YOU to prove it... get me in touch with these people...
Can't you understand that the Quran causes NO confusion, yet your hadiths cause ALL of it?
Peace
d -
Have you ever given it a second thought that your belief is not Islam ?
Please define Islam.
- A set of dogmatic beliefs, a hierarchy of clergymen, oppression of women, factional infighting.. and so on and so forth.
OR
- Submission to the one and only true ever-lasting God, through his divine revelation of which contains NO doubt.
"This is the Book; in it is guidance sure, without doubt, to those who fear Allah." - 22
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Have you ever given it a second thought that your belief is not Islam ? .
I'm not saying anything, absolutely I'll not reject any hadith, we have classified it wether it is Sahih or Hassan or Daef, and I'm not concluding at my own, I'm making statements at my own and read books of shoyoukh and comparing to make this statement sure 80%.
the only enemies of the messenger I've seen is the Quranists or the right word that described them very well is UnQuranists.
by the way no one from Sunnah pick up of his choice as you "Quranists" do.
All Praise is for Allah, I belong to this category of people, whose Islam is this, pure and sincere, unlike those who have a self polluted thoughts considering it as their Deen. Here is MY ISLAM which was sent/communicated to true Muslims for telling everyone including unfortunately you also
http//haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/2.136m.gif
You people say "We believe in Allah, and in that/Grand Qur'aan which has since sent to us,
http//haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/2.136n.gif
and what was sent to Iebra'heim, and Iesma'eile, and Ies'hauq; and Ya'qoob and upon his progeny;
http//haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/2.136p.gif
and what was given to Musa and Easa,
http//haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/2.136q.gif
and in that which was given to the Elevated and Chosen Persons from their Sustainer Lord.http//haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/002.02.B.083.%20J.htm
And you add at your own "and I believe what was given to Bukhari etc".
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Salamun alaikum,
It is indeed harsh when thereformer thinks that it is WE who are out of the fold of Islam - when Islam is all-accepting...it is the truth, hadiths is one of the basics of the foundation of Islam, rejecting it and just following Qur'an alone will not make you better than jewish and christians.
A few things
If I don't drink alcohol, that means I reject it, no? - do you understand?
well, drinking alcohol or not is your choice, but rejecting hadith is not yours definitely. do you understand?
You speak about 'shadings' things to know context of the verse - again you are limiting Islam to be the deen of your self-proclaimed ullamas - it is only they who understand, so why question? Wrong. We are all individually responsible for our own understanding, that is why we are commanded to think.
the shading will just give you an idea about the verse and then you make your interpretation about the new situations. the shading can be wrong but he can give you great idea about how to see things. there is a difference between think before and think today.
Don't worry about your interpretations about 'quranists' being rude. Speaking for myself - I am not a quranist - but a MONOTHEIST who uses the Quran as his book of guidance. I am sure others here would agree. We are Muslim. Nothing more, nothing less. The labelling comes from you.
A jewish is a monotheist, a christian is a monotheist also , what do you think that you're not different from them? as I see you're not different from them because they also rejected what their prophets said from ahadiths.
It is amazing that you don't mind contradicting what your teachers said (who by definition as teachers would know MORE than you) - do you think that history may be repeating itself?
if you think that history repeat yourself, we might say the new Pharaon( which this time will be killed by jewish)
Next you state it is not wrong for YOU to hold an opinion - so why do you think it is wrong for us? Who are you to judge that WE are wrong?
for one reason " " .
About > YES, every verse with it's context. Again, WITHOUT hadith - are the previous generations of muslims, those led my the prophets - were they ALL misled because they did not have the CONTEXT of bukhari hadith? The Quran is a timeless book. It explains itself. The context is contained WITHIN the book - not outside it.
I don't see any point of this post?
It is self explanatory
- Context is vital
- Those who did not have hadith to give 'shading' or context - where they misled? I speak about the communities that were guided by the previous prophets and patriarchs.
- The quran is timeless
- The quran explains itself
- The CONTEXT comes from WITHIN the quran.
Yes you're right but die to know from you where Qur'an explains itself ? if the answer wasn't wiser, don't answer the question.
Then you talk about the revelation being TRIGGERED by events in the prophets lifetime. So, if certain events didn't happen - does that mean we are 'missing' some guidance?
that doesn't mean anything .
I said it 3 times, because its magic. it really works. I can't prove it to you, but just believe me, in india, when you repeat things over and over then that thing happens.
ah really, well this is in india as you said.
You then question WHY would people fabricate a hadith - simple, you can't change the quran, but you can change how it is applied if people are told to rely on something out side the quran - which can be changed... Also, irrespective of who it was or how many there were, there were still fabrications... think of the Last sermon - so many thousands of people, yet 3 different versions...
so according to what you said Abu Horaira is a Liar and Bukhari is Lair, is that what you mean?
I am not scared of magic, I once challenged someone to prove it, he fell flat on his face when I showed he was tricking people... i challenge YOU to prove it... get me in touch with these people...
Yes, I'm not scared as well, after all nothing will happen to you without being in your destiny . but one more thing look about sorcery and black magic in arabic country and go get in touch with them.
Can't you understand that the Quran causes NO confusion, yet your hadiths cause ALL of it?
Peace
dHadiths causes no confusion, that's what you think. hadith as I see from guys here has been tough for them to use it, this is the major thing and the answer of why they rejected it.
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Please define Islam.
- A set of dogmatic beliefs, a hierarchy of clergymen, oppression of women, factional infighting.. and so on and so forth.
OR - Submission to the one and only true ever-lasting God, through his divine revelation of which contains NO doubt.
"This is the Book; in it is guidance sure, without doubt, to those who fear Allah." - 22
Islam is more than what you stated .
- A set of dogmatic beliefs, a hierarchy of clergymen, oppression of women, factional infighting.. and so on and so forth.
-
Salamun alaikum,
thereformer or hamza, it is YOUR truth that hadiths are an integral part of Islam and anyone not using them as LAW is outside the fold of Islam. You won't accept that you may be wrong. And I am yet to see a convincing argument that I have to accept them as Law.
well, drinking alcohol or not is your choice, but rejecting hadith is not yours definitely. do you understand?
There is NO compulsion in deen. If I choose to reject something, it is my choice. The point I was trying to make to you is that you 'don't use daef hadiths' so therefore you ARE rejecting them.
the shading will just give you an idea about the verse and then you make your interpretation about the new situations. the shading can be wrong but he can give you great idea about how to see things. there is a difference between think before and think today.
Are you saying that without hadiths you cannot understand the Quran? Therefore you are placing the hadiths ABOVE the quran in terms of route to understanding? Surely if you used the Quran as your criterion (as you have said before) that you would use Quran to judge if a hadith is sound or not? Or you would rather use hadith to see if quran is sound?
A jewish is a monotheist, a christian is a monotheist also , what do you think that you're not different from them? as I see you're not different from them because they also rejected what their prophets said from ahadiths.
There will be jews, christians, sabeans who will attain paradise too. Those who ARE monotheists will have nothing to worry about. But if you seek to use something which CANNOT be proven as being authentic as your law - then you are relying on something which is weak... think.
if you think that history repeat yourself, we might say the new Pharaon( which this time will be killed by jewish)
I think that there is a language barrier here. I am saying that you are still contradicting those who MAY have more knowledge than you - have you considered that? You contradicted your teachers - who by definition - would have more knowledge than you, so you are doing what you did then - again... hence history is repeating itself.
Yes you're right but die to know from you where Qur'an explains itself ? if the answer wasn't wiser, don't answer the question.
Let me ask you a question
when the Quran orders you to NOT eat the meat of the pig - do you then look to the hadith to see what is a pig and what colour it should be? A bit like the people of Musa (S) who kept asking about the calf, what colour it should be, what age it should be etc? you seek information which is unimportant...In regards to the magic in India - if there is such a thing as magic - it would be the same all over the world no?
You ask if I call Abu Huraira a liar and bukhari a liar. Not liars, but ignorant. They think that whatever hadith came to them MUST be true - so they record all of it, even those from people who lied to donkeys.
Yes, I'm not scared as well, after all nothing will happen to you without being in your destiny . but one more thing look about sorcery and black magic in arabic country and go get in touch with them.
Destiny has nothing to do with it. It's all about magic not being real. Why do I have to go to an arabic country to witness it? It's rubbish. Since you've done so much research about witchcraft and magic, why don't you pm me some contacts with people I can get in touch with who can do witchcraft - then we will get them on a TV show and see if they can do it. James Randi has 1 million dollars up for someone who can prove this - lets see if its true...
Hadiths causes no confusion, that's what you think. hadith as I see from guys here has been tough for them to use it, this is the major thing and the answer of why they rejected it.
Please explain... You think that because we find hadiths 'tough to use' thats why we reject it? NO, some of us here reject hadiths because they fly in the face of reason and make no sense and are derogatory to the extreme about the prophet...
Peace
d -
Islam is more than what you stated .
How about you enlighten us then?
In any case, it is certainly not number One, am I right or am I wrong?
Yes or no.
If it is Number One, (which is pure definition of Sunnism) then I rest my case.
If it is (not exhaustive or limited to) Number two then welcome to Islam.
Peace
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All Praise is for Allah, I belong to this category of people, whose Islam is this, pure and sincere, unlike those who have a self polluted thoughts considering it as their Deen. Here is MY ISLAM which was sent/communicated to true Muslims for telling everyone including unfortunately you also
http//haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/2.136m.gif
You people say "We believe in Allah, and in that/Grand Qur'aan which has since sent to us,
http//haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/2.136n.gif
and what was sent to Iebra'heim, and Iesma'eile, and Ies'hauq; and Ya'qoob and upon his progeny;
http//haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/2.136p.gif
and what was given to Musa and Easa,
http//haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/2.136q.gif
and in that which was given to the Elevated and Chosen Persons from their Sustainer Lord.
http//haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/002.02.B.083.%20J.htm
And you add at your own "and I believe what was given to Bukhari etc".we will be witnessed in the day of Judgement about Quranists and their attempts to ruin the Islam and the sunnah, no one will deny their rules of spreading Islam in the wrong way.
about Hadith God said ( * )
(27)
{ } .
the last verse describe the Quranists who they pretend that they said the truth but in fact they didn't.
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Salamun alaikum,
thereformer or hamza, it is YOUR truth that hadiths are an integral part of Islam and anyone not using them as LAW is outside the fold of Islam. You won't accept that you may be wrong. And I am yet to see a convincing argument that I have to accept them as Law.Hamza is my name.
No I'll not accept that I'm wrong and I'm not wrong.
There is NO compulsion in deen. If I choose to reject something, it is my choice. The point I was trying to make to you is that you 'don't use daef hadiths' so therefore you ARE rejecting them.
No, I don't use it that doesn't mean that I'm rejecting it . As I said reject is a severe thing.
Are you saying that without hadiths you cannot understand the Quran?
No, without hadith, you will make a lot of mistakes in understanding the Quran . the most famous interpreters of Quran understood it using hadith, hadith will show you how to understand.
Therefore you are placing the hadiths ABOVE the quran in terms of route to understanding? Surely if you used the Quran as your criterion (as you have said before) that you would use Quran to judge if a hadith is sound or not? Or you would rather use hadith to see if quran is sound?
Yes , the Quran is the Criterion and the hadith detailed and made some of the issues easy to undersand.
of course we have to use Quran to judge, at the same hadith to expand the judgement.There will be jews, christians, sabeans who will attain paradise too. Those who ARE monotheists will have nothing to worry about. But if you seek to use something which CANNOT be proven as being authentic as your law - then you are relying on something which is weak... think.
Yes of course, paradise is not juste for Muslims only, who said that hadith is not authentic God said that we should take what the prophet said and deed and what he has done and said are from inspirations as well .
God said ( ( * , here in this verse God doesn't talk about Qurann he talked about the saying of the prophet that they are also from inspiration .
I think that there is a language barrier here. I am saying that you are still contradicting those who MAY have more knowledge than you - have you considered that? You contradicted your teachers - who by definition - would have more knowledge than you, so you are doing what you did then - again... hence history is repeating itself.
Yes, there is a language barrier (you didn't understand what I said about histroy repeat itself), Yes I consider that but do you know how ? . who said that a teacher know better than his students , this depends on how they both of them keeping knowledge. a teacher can be lazy and he can't look for the new researches while the students even if he is lazy he can bring the new information for the teacher.
Let me ask you a question
when the Quran orders you to NOT eat the meat of the pig - do you then look to the hadith to see what is a pig and what colour it should be? A bit like the people of Musa (S) who kept asking about the calf, what colour it should be, what age it should be etc? you seek information which is unimportant...Let me ask you a question
when the Quran orders you to obey the deeds and the sayings of the prophet- do you then know that the Quran talks about sunnah which is containing ahadith Sahiha about this kind of deeds and sayings?In regards to the magic in India - if there is such a thing as magic - it would be the same all over the world no?
No.
You ask if I call Abu Huraira a liar and bukhari a liar. Not liars, but ignorant. They think that whatever hadith came to them MUST be true - so they record all of it, even those from people who lied to donkeys.
sorry to say that you don't know nothing about Abu Horaira and absolutely you don't know nothing about Bukhari. and about calling people who they listened to them donkeys, the new research said that donkey is the most clever animal in the world and he can be clever from human themselves.
Destiny has nothing to do with it. It's all about magic not being real. Why do I have to go to an arabic country to witness it? It's rubbish. Since you've done so much research about witchcraft and magic, why don't you pm me some contacts with people I can get in touch with who can do witchcraft - then we will get them on a TV show and see if they can do it. James Randi has 1 million dollars up for someone who can prove this - lets see if its true...
well, I can't visit anyone for them because it is forbidden, and about showing them in TV, they will not accept because they are working with the Djinn and there will be a mess.
Please explain... You think that because we find hadiths 'tough to use' thats why we reject it? NO, some of us here reject hadiths because they fly in the face of reason and make no sense and are derogatory to the extreme about the prophet...
Peace
dMaybe because of the translation, because I've answered one hadith here and explained it because it was mal-translated. ok cite one where you find it "fly in the face" .
B.S I have to go , I'll answer you Tomorrow insha'allah . have a nice day .
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How about you enlighten us then?
ok, I'll answer this question Tomorrow if God willing..I have to go now.
In any case, it is certainly not number One, am I right or am I wrong?
Yes, you're right
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Please define Islam.
- A set of dogmatic beliefs, a hierarchy of clergymen, oppression of women, factional infighting.. and so on and so forth.
OR
- Submission to the one and only true ever-lasting God, through his divine revelation of which contains NO doubt.
"This is the Book; in it is guidance sure, without doubt, to those who fear Allah." - 22
Sorry god cannot run the affair of this world wit out the help of messengers and Ulma he is incapable brickwall
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Salamun alaikum,
No I'll not accept that I'm wrong and I'm not wrong.
I think I will stop now, because you are right and cannot be wrong, so where do I sign up to your cult O Perfect One?
No, I don't use it that doesn't mean that I'm rejecting it . As I said reject is a severe thing.
Again, that language barrier, to not use something is to reject it, but I suppose that I don't understand the 'shading' of what rejection means. When a girl says 'no' to your advances, do you think - 'aha, maybe I have a chance, because NO doesn't always mean NO. Let me consult my imams about this situation, I am sure it has arisen somewhere, let's see what the Aimma have to say about this issue I am facing, there MUST be a hadith to support my view'. Around the turn of the 20th century, there was another person who called himself the reformer. He has been quoted to have said "I love the hadith, it's like a magician's bag of tricks, I can find in it what I wish". I will let you look up the quote...
No, without hadith, you will make a lot of mistakes in understanding the Quran . the most famous interpreters of Quran understood it using hadith, hadith will show you how to understand.
OK, let's give it a go shall we
2173 He has forbidden you dead meat (carrion), blood, swine-flesh, and anything (not just meat) that has been dedicated to other than God (be it a person, an idol or a tomb 53). But if one is forced by necessity, neither intending disobedience, nor exceeding, it will not be a violation that hurts his own ?self?. Indeed, God is Forgiving, Merciful.Now I see the above verse as saying to me that the following is forbidden to me
- Carrion
- Blood
- Swine-flesh
- Anything dedicated to other than Allah
however, I can have those things (if necessity takes it and I am not intending to be disobedient to the Laws of Allah).
Is this verse not CLEAR for you? I will let you bring your hadiths to 'explain' this verse... No doubt they will say, you cannot eat carrion, but if it is a cow it's fine, especially if it was golden coloured and was a nicely tempered cow, not an angry one, but a nice, kind, beautiful one.
I do not reject ALL hadith, I use the quran as criterion, but I reject most of them because they go against the message of the Quran and the personages portrayed in them. I DO NOT accept hadith as LAW. As a collection of sayings POSSIBLY attributable yes, but I leave room for error. You take them all, without criticism.
If as you say (I agree) the Quran is criterion, then the Quran cannot be abrogated by hadith - the otherway round is true. You EXPAND the judgment - so thereby you ADD to the LAWS of Allah Almighty. I hope you understand the problem you face here.
Yes of course, paradise is not juste for Muslims only, who said that hadith is not authentic God said that we should take what the prophet said and deed and what he has done and said are from inspirations as well .
Again, I ask for proof - can you prove, beyond a reasonable doubt that the hadiths are authentic? If so, how?
THEN you touch on the subject that there was revelation OUTSIDE the Quran. i.e. the hadiths. How do you know which one is revelation, and which one is just a tradition of the time? Does it say in your hadiths, that Allah has told the prophet to proclaim something? Show me, I am curious.
You imply that when the Quran talks about itself being COMPLETE and FULLY DETAILED, that in fact we need to insert the word hadith in there too...?
Yes, there is a language barrier (you didn't understand what I said about histroy repeat itself), Yes I consider that but do you know how ? . who said that a teacher know better than his students , this depends on how they both of them keeping knowledge. a teacher can be lazy and he can't look for the new researches while the students even if he is lazy he can bring the new information for the teacher.
I asked you a question - then you respond with another question. A favourite tactic of people who don't have anything good to say...
I teach children maths and science part time. When I am teaching quadratic equations to people who don't know how to do them, and then they contradict me on how I am doing it - even though I have the experience and the knowledge to know what I am teaching to someone who has not ever done the subject - who do you think is right? Again, that language barrier - a teacher cannot be the taught in HIS/HER speciality subject... otherwise that person is a layperson...Let me ask you a question
when the Quran orders you to obey the deeds and the sayings of the prophet- do you then know that the Quran talks about sunnah which is containing ahadith Sahiha about this kind of deeds and sayings?The same Allah who said
3127 And if all the trees on earth were pens, and the sea were ink, with seven more seas yet added, the Words of God would not be exhausted Surely, God is Almighty, Wise.So, how come He, in His Infinite Wisdom decided to omit
When I mean obey the Messenger, that means you obey his SUNNAH and his Hadiths, which will be called SAHIH.
I don't mean that you obey the Message which the Messenger brings.
And what is the message? The Quran is the Message. Not your hadith. If you believe them, they are the words of Mohammed (S) the Man, and not Mohammed (S) the Messenger.You then said that the magic isn't the same around the world, so why did you compare it to your TV tricksters?
sorry to say that you don't know nothing about Abu Horaira and absolutely you don't know nothing about Bukhari. and about calling people who they listened to them donkeys, the new research said that donkey is the most clever animal in the world and he can be clever from human themselves.
THIS response made me laugh. You are actually granting donkeys MORE intelligence than humans. This may true for SOME people! Which hadith about donkey intelligence did you use? I know that broccoli has an IQ of about 1 - which isn't bad for a vegetable!
well, I can't visit anyone for them because it is forbidden, and about showing them in TV, they will not accept because they are working with the Djinn and there will be a mess.
SO, you can't visit these people and they've got these djinns that do their bidding and it's all forbidden, mysterious peoples these jewish magicians of yours. But you've of course seen what they do so that you can prove it for yourself I suppose? Or is that more hearsay?
And PLEASE, it's not B.S. its P.S.
B.S. is a whole other kinda stuff...you know what I mean...Afridi - these people make the prophet into a bewitched man who can't remember who he slept with, and that bewitched by a jewish magician. Instantly giving more power to the jews - because they've got mastery over 'the Mercy for the Worlds' Of course, they wouldn't mind reducing the power of Allah. If only they knew. It is at times like speaking to someone deaf, dumb and blind...
Peace
d -
Sorry god cannot run the affair of this world wit out the help of messengers and Ulma he is incapable brickwall
rotfl lol afridi220. Always up to some trouble eh?