did Qur'anists know that the prophet has mentioned them ?
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Salamun alaikum,
I think I will stop now, because you are right and cannot be wrong, so where do I sign up to your cult O Perfect One?salamo Alaykom,
I'm not perfect but I'm better )
Again, that language barrier, to not use something is to reject it, but I suppose that I don't understand the 'shading' of what rejection means. When a girl says 'no' to your advances, do you think - 'aha, maybe I have a chance, because NO doesn't always mean NO. Let me consult my imams about this situation, I am sure it has arisen somewhere, let's see what the Aimma have to say about this issue I am facing, there MUST be a hadith to support my view'. Around the turn of the 20th century, there was another person who called himself the reformer. He has been quoted to have said "I love the hadith, it's like a magician's bag of tricks, I can find in it what I wish". I will let you look up the quote...
there is no language barrier, it's just I'm against what you said.
by the way this post is so funny, and the funny thing is "you want from me to take your opinion, sorry I've never took any opinion from anyone on the earth".OK, let's give it a go shall we
2173 He has forbidden you dead meat (carrion), blood, swine-flesh, and anything (not just meat) that has been dedicated to other than God (be it a person, an idol or a tomb 53). But if one is forced by necessity, neither intending disobedience, nor exceeding, it will not be a violation that hurts his own ?self?. Indeed, God is Forgiving, Merciful.Now I see the above verse as saying to me that the following is forbidden to me
- Carrion
- Blood
- Swine-flesh
- Anything dedicated to other than Allah
however, I can have those things (if necessity takes it and I am not intending to be disobedient to the Laws of Allah).
Is this verse not CLEAR for you? I will let you bring your hadiths to 'explain' this verse... No doubt they will say, you cannot eat carrion, but if it is a cow it's fine, especially if it was golden coloured and was a nicely tempered cow, not an angry one, but a nice, kind, beautiful one.
the verse is already clear, you have choose the easy one (a baby can understand it), well may I choose one
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Alms are for the poor and the needy, and those employed to administer the (funds); for those whose hearts have been (recently) reconciled (to the truth); for those in bondage and in debt; in the cause of Allah; and for the wayfarer (thus is it) ordained by Allah, and Allah is full of knowledge and wisdom.
ok go ahead ... interpret the verse ??????? and tell me what it says letter by letter.
I do not reject ALL hadith, I use the quran as criterion, but I reject most of them because they go against the message of the Quran and the personages portrayed in them. I DO NOT accept hadith as LAW. As a collection of sayings POSSIBLY attributable yes, but I leave room for error. You take them all, without criticism.
Criticism is not up to you, you know that if you want to criticize the book Bukhari, you have to study at least 40 years (the FIQH al Hadith and FIQH A-ssira and much things, and until now no one has ever did these things) look at you, you have just converted and you have saw some things not good as you claimed then you began rejecting, what's that?.
If as you say (I agree) the Quran is criterion, then the Quran cannot be abrogated by hadith - the otherway round is true. You EXPAND the judgment - so thereby you ADD to the LAWS of Allah Almighty. I hope you understand the problem you face here.
Is God banned us from adding laws ?, he gave us the basics for some laws to know how we can add other laws, that's what you can't understand.
Again, I ask for proof - can you prove, beyond a reasonable doubt that the hadiths are authentic? If so, how?
the hadiths Sahih is authentic and so the Hassan, because they organized Islam and strethen it, and clarified some unclarified issues in Qur'an. God didn't mention the punishment of a Wrecked, so he let the people choose the punishment according to what they saw, then the punishment has been done in the age of Omar Bno Al-khatab and it was an intelligent from him, because after all he defined it from Quran.
THEN you touch on the subject that there was revelation OUTSIDE the Quran. i.e. the hadiths. How do you know which one is revelation, and which one is just a tradition of the time? Does it say in your hadiths, that Allah has told the prophet to proclaim something? Show me, I am curious.
you're curious , Good because the justification you are going to take it from Qur'an itself
God Almighty said
"He (alone) knows the Unseen, nor does He make anyone acquainted with His Mysteries,
"Except a Messenger whom He has chosen and then he makes a band of watchers march before him and behind him, " . Al-Jinn(26;27/72)interpret the verses yourself.
You imply that when the Quran talks about itself being COMPLETE and FULLY DETAILED, that in fact we need to insert the word hadith in there too...?
Quran is completed in verses and fully detailed in provisions, the hadith came to interpret those verses in it and expanded also these fully provisions for another issues.
I asked you a question - then you respond with another question. A favourite tactic of people who don't have anything good to say...
I answer you then I said according to your question do you know how my answers is going, so basically you got the answer with a question about it (my answer).
I teach children maths and science part time. When I am teaching quadratic equations to people who don't know how to do them, and then they contradict me on how I am doing it - even though I have the experience and the knowledge to know what I am teaching to someone who has not ever done the subject - who do you think is right? Again, that language barrier - a teacher cannot be the taught in HIS/HER speciality subject... otherwise that person is a layperson...
I think you love to say that there is a language barrier( this shows that you avoid my posts, I've been talked to an atheist and when I answered all his questions, he used to say "language barrier) is that the same thing for you too?
you're teaching people who they don't look for the information before your information(the same information).
The same Allah who said
3127 And if all the trees on earth were pens, and the sea were ink, with seven more seas yet added, the Words of God would not be exhausted Surely, God is Almighty, Wise.So, how come He, in His Infinite Wisdom decided to omit
When I mean obey the Messenger, that means you obey his SUNNAH and his Hadiths, which will be called SAHIH.
I don't mean that you obey the Message which the Messenger brings.
And what is the message? The Quran is the Message. Not your hadith. If you believe them, they are the words of Mohammed (S) the Man, and not Mohammed (S) the Messenger.No, this is wrong, because what you claimed that the message is just Qur'an alone, makes so sense, after all God mentionned that the deeds of the prophet and the sayings are also message.
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"So take what the Messenger assigns to you, and deny yourselves that which he withholds from you."
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Ye have indeed in the Messenger of Allah a beautiful pattern (of conduct) for any one whose hope is in Allah and the Final Day, and who engages much in the praise of Allah
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"then let those beware who withstand the Messenger's order, lest some trial befall them, or a grievous Penalty be inflicted on them".
You then said that the magic isn't the same around the world, so why did you compare it to your TV tricksters?
this is not my TV trickers, I was looking for some real magic to show you and I found these trickers. so It thought that maybe you want to see these things.
THIS response made me laugh. You are actually granting donkeys MORE intelligence than humans. This may true for SOME people! Which hadith about donkey intelligence did you use? I know that broccoli has an IQ of about 1 - which isn't bad for a vegetable!
stop joking, I'm not here for laughing .
SO, you can't visit these people and they've got these djinns that do their bidding and it's all forbidden, mysterious peoples these jewish magicians of yours. But you've of course seen what they do so that you can prove it for yourself I suppose? Or is that more hearsay?
I can't do it, it's not easy as you think and they are not jewish, they are Arabs but magicians . and I've never seen what they do, but we found their trace which mostly are unclarified writing and curses writing by a strange way in a small book ( tiny book) and lot of writings in it.
And PLEASE, it's not B.S. its P.S.
B.S. is a whole other kinda stuff...you know what I mean...Ah sorry I forgot because I used to write N.B(french way) and when I wrote in english I forgot that B turned to P .
Afridi - these people make the prophet into a bewitched man who can't remember who he slept with, and that bewitched by a jewish magician. Instantly giving more power to the jews - because they've got mastery over 'the Mercy for the Worlds' Of course, they wouldn't mind reducing the power of Allah. If only they knew. It is at times like speaking to someone deaf, dumb and blind...
Peace
dwhat's that supposed to mean ?
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Quranists are smart people. They do not just believe every story written in a book. They also know that hadiths were fabricated centuries after Muhammad and many hadiths reflect the events of that era. One of the best examples of these "prophetic" fabrications are the ones about Mahdi. The earlier fabrications designates Damascus, Umayyad's capital city, for Mahdi's origination, while later fabrications replaces Damascus with Baghdad, Abbasid's capital city, as the place where Mahdi would rise. You will find very "prophetic" differences between the description of Mahdi depending on the era of their fabrication!... The hadith you are quoting is another proof that there were still many people rejecting hadith and the hadith fabricators made up a hadith to condemn them in the name of Muhammad.
If anyone believes this hadiths, then there are even more "authentic hadiths" in the same book rejecting hadiths. For instance, did you know that ALL PROMINENT SAHABA disagreed with the Prophet Muhammad and accepted Omar bin Khattab's assertion
sorry , but none of the Quranists smart, because a lot of them rejected hadith without reason and let me remind you that they don't even interpret a verse in a right way so how they can be smart as you claimed????
and about the last sentence you have wrote, don't talk about what you don't know and keep yourself busy with your 19 numbers.
God's Book is Sufficient for Us.
Peace,
Edip{ } ( 31)
Say "If ye do love Allah, follow me Allah will love you and forgive you your sins; for Allah is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful."
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I'm not perfect but I'm better )
You shall not treat the people with arrogance, nor shall you roam the earth carefree. God does not like the arrogant showoffs.
3118O you who believe, no people shall ridicule other people, for they may be better than they.
Nor shall any women ridicule other women, for they may be better than they.
Nor shall you mock one another, or call each other names.
Evil indeed is the reversion to wickedness after attaining faith.
Anyone who does not repent after this, these are the transgressors.
4911the hadiths Sahih is authentic and so the Hassan, because they organized Islam and strethen it, and clarified some unclarified issues in Qur'an.
... God thus clarifies the revelations for you, that you may reflect
2219It is thus that God makes clear for you the signs that you may reflect.
2266"So take what the Messenger assigns to you, and deny yourselves that which he withholds from you."
You have accused people of twisting the meaning of certain verses by taking them out of context; yet this is what you are doing here.
This verse does not in any way refer to ahadeeth. Even traditional scholars, whom you said you are following, do not interpret it this way.
stop joking, I'm not here for laughing .
peace
Narrated Jabir ibn Samurah Simak ibn Harb asked Jabir ibn Samurah, "Did you sit in the company of the Messenger of Allah?" He said Yes, very often. He (the Prophet) used to sit at the place where he observed the morning or dawn prayer till the sun rose or when it had risen; he would stand, and they (his Companions) would talk about matters (pertaining to the days) of ignorance, and they would laugh (on these matters) while (the Prophet) only smiled.
Amr ibn al-As said I had a sexual dream on a cold night in the battle of Dhat al-Salasil. I was afraid, if I washed/bathed I would die. I, therefore, performed Tayammum and led my companions in the dawn prayer. They mentioned that the Messenger of Allah (p). He said 'Amr, you led your companions in prayer, while you were sexually defiled? I informed him of the cause which impeded me from taking a bath. And I said I heard Allah say "Do not kill yourself, verily Allah is merciful to you." The Messenger of Allah laughed and did not say anything.
Narrated Aisha, Umm al-Mu'minin When the Apostle of Allah (p) arrived after the expedition to Tabuk or Khaybar (the narrator is doubtful), the draught raised an end of a curtain which was hung in front of her store-room, revealing some dolls which belonged to her.
He asked What is this? She replied My dolls. Among them he saw a horse with wings made of rags, and asked What is this I see among them? She replied A horse. He asked What is this that it has on it? She replied Two wings. He asked A horse with two wings? She replied Have you not heard that Solomon had horses with wings? She said Thereupon the Apostle of Allah (p) laughed so heartily that I could see his molar teeth.Ibn Abbas said The Prophet (p) did not prescribe any punishment for drinking wine. Ibn Abbas said A man who had drunk wine and become intoxicated was found staggering on the road, so he was taken to the Prophet (p). When he was opposite Al-Abbas' house, he escaped, and going in to Al-Abbas, he grasped hold of him. When that was mentioned to the Prophet (p), he laughed and said Did he do that? And he gave no command regarding him.
In al-Adab al-Mufrad, Imaam Bukhari reports from Bakr ibn 'Abdillah who said "The Companions of the Prophet used to throw melon-rinds at one another, ;D but when the matter was serious, they were the only true men."
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The people who pretended that they took the Path with the Messenger while actually they moved alongwith his enemies who conjectured stories falsily attributing to him, listen their whole statement;
The people who pretend that they took the Path with the messanger and they pretend that they follow Qur'an is Qur'anists. moving to the verses that you have stated. by the way they have translated by Quranists which make them good for you .
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And that Day the unjust/distorter/imbalanced will in extreme distress biting on his hands will regretfully exclaim to himself,
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"Alas, I had adopted the path along with the Messenger
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Woe to me, alas I had not taken such and such person as intimate friend.the verses talked about the infidels in general, but in the beginning i was talked about the people of Quraish where the prophet used to live(his native land and his native people ) who they didn't believe him and who they didn't take what he said from Quran and this absolutely out of the topic (next time try to bring something you did understand). again the verse translated by Quranists so it served their weak ambitions of destroying Islam.
WHAT DID RESULT BY ADOPTING BUKHARI etc; they will say
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Of course he made me forgetful and strayed from the Reminder/Admonition/the Book-, after that it had reached to me;
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and Shai'taan for man has always been a deserter".http//haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/025.%20Al%20Furqan/25.30.gif
And the Messenger said, "O My Sustainer Lord! It is true that My Nation had made this Grand Qur'aan restricted "http//haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/025.%20Al%20Furqan/Temp%2001%2025.31.gif
And this is the reason that We have declared for each and every Chosen and Elevated Servant of Allah as his enemy from amongst the criminals.the verses still in the same situation where the prophet complained to God that his own people from Quraish(the infidels) deny his Quran and they took it as a restricted book. so let me remind you that Sunnah people read and take Quran more than the Quranists . Ah let alone that they know things more than Quranists.
attached Bukhari to the verse is a mistake a big mistake , so be careful it might registred now as a sin, because the verse never mentioned anything about this man and it talks about infidels from Quraish.
IT IS TIME TO RETURN TO THE BOOK OF ALLAH SINCERELY AND EXCLUSIVELY BEFORE IT IS TOO LATE
http//haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/025.%20Al%20Furqan/025.%20B%20%20Al%20Furqan.htmIt is time to wake up and go read and study because your knowledge about Quran is not superficial as I think, but it's also less than superficial, taking the verse from a Quranists source will not make you think using your mind neither in your hand using your mind.
and those Quranists who they attached things wich they are far away of the real interpretations of Quran and what the verses said, are surely waiting a punishement from God.these are the real verses with their translations in english
(25) (26) (27) (2 (29)
The Day that the wrong-doer will bite at his hands, he will say, "Oh! Would that I had taken a (straight) path with the Messenger!
"Ah! Woe is me! Would that I had never taken such a one for a friend!
"He did lead me astray from the Message (of Allah) after it had come to me! Ah! The Evil One is but a traitor to man!
Then the Messenger will say "O my Lord! truly my people took this Qur-an for just foolish nonsense."
Thus have We made for every prophet an enemy among the sinners but enough is thy Lord to guide and to help..Again the verses talked about the infidels from Quraish, where the people of the prophet were living . he called them my people because he sent to them, he doesn't talk about Sunnah which they are followers of him.
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Telling people not to talk about what they don't know isn't a sufficient response or refutation. If you believe that your knowledge or interpretation is superior then it is incumbent upon you to educate those of us with feeble minds.
They don't want to learn, care to give me an idea about how I behave over them?
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You shall not treat the people with arrogance, nor shall you roam the earth carefree. God does not like the arrogant showoffs.
3118
O you who believe, no people shall ridicule other people, for they may be better than they.
Nor shall any women ridicule other women, for they may be better than they.
Nor shall you mock one another, or call each other names.
Evil indeed is the reversion to wickedness after attaining faith.
Anyone who does not repent after this, these are the transgressors.
4911I'm not arrogant, I've said the truth that I'm better than him. is that arrogance ? . being better than someone, means that he should listen to you not bring silly ideas where he will look like a fool man.
... God thus clarifies the revelations for you, that you may reflect
2219
It is thus that God makes clear for you the signs that you may reflect.
2266I hope you understand these two verses.
You have accused people of twisting the meaning of certain verses by taking them out of context; yet this is what you are doing here.
No, of course I'll not make this mistake as guys do here.
This verse does not in any way refer to ahadeeth. Even traditional scholars, whom you said you are following, do not interpret it this way.
can you prove what you said ? or at least give me the names of these scholars as you claimed?
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can you prove what you said ? or at least give me the names of these scholars as you claimed?
Yes, of course.
But let us first look at the whole verse. By the way, could you kindly attach the number of the surah and verse if you quote from the Qur'an? That makes it easier for anyone participating in this discussion, or reading it, to check the verse for themselves, look at the context etc.
You were quoting from 597. Briefly said, surah 59 deals with the expulsion of the "unbelievers among the people of the book" (i.e. the treacherous Jews) from the neighbourhood of Medina.
What Allah has bestowed on His Messenger (and taken away) from the people of the townships, belongs to Allah,? to His Messenger and to kindred and orphans, the needy and the wayfarer;? In order that it may not (merely) make a circuit between the wealthy among you. So take what the Messenger assigns to you, and deny yourselves that which he withholds from you. And fear Allah; for Allah is strict in Punishment.
(Yusuf Ali)What Allah has bestowed on His Messenger (and taken away) from the people of the townships, belongs to Allah,? to His Messenger and to kindred and orphans, the needy and the wayfarer;? In order that it may not (merely) make a circuit between the wealthy among you. So take what the Messenger assigns to you, and refrain from what he prohibits you. And fear Allah; for Allah is strict in Punishment.
(modified Yusuf Ali translation from "the presidency of islamic researches, IFTA, call and guidance"That which Allah giveth as spoil unto His messenger from the people of the townships, it is for Allah and His messenger and for the near of kin and the orphans and the needy and the wayfarer, that it become not a commodity between the rich among you. And whatsoever the messenger giveth you, take it. And whatsoever he forbiddeth, abstain (from it). And keep your duty to Allah. Lo! Allah is stern in reprisal.
(Pickthal)Whatever Allah has restored to His Messenger from the people of the towns, it is for Allah and for the Messenger, and for the near of kin and the orphans and the needy and the wayfarer, so that it may not be a thing taken by turns among the rich of you, and whatever the Messenger gives you, accept it, and from whatever he forbids you, keep back, and be careful of (your duty to) Allah; surely Allah is severe in retributing (evil)
(Shakir)Whatever God bestowed upon His messenger from the people of the towns, then it shall be to God and His messenger, and the relatives, and the orphans, and the poor, and the wayfarer. Thus, it will not remain monopolized by the rich among you. And you may take what the messenger gives you, but do not take what he prohibits you from taking. And be aware of God, for God is mighty in retribution.
(Free Minds)Whatever God provided to His messenger from the people of the townships, then it shall be to God and His messenger; for the relatives, the orphans, the poor, and the wayfarer. Thus, it will not remain monopolized by the rich among you. You may take what the messenger gives you, but do not take what he withholds you from taking. Be aware of God, for God is mighty in retribution.
(Yuksel / Saleh al-Shaiban / Schulte-Nafeh)Now back to your question. http//www.cheesebuerger.de/images/smilie/konfus/c010.gif
I wrote that even traditional scholars, whom you said you are following, interpret the verse above as referring to booty. You asked me to prove this or provide the names of scholars.
One of them is Ibn Kathir.
Ibn Kathir wrote a famous commentary on the Qur'an named Tafsir al-Qur'an al-'Adhim which linked certain Hadith, or sayings of Muhammad, and sayings of the sahaba to verses of the Qur'an, in explanation. Tafsir Ibn Kathir is famous all over the Muslim world and among Muslims in the Western world, is one of the most widely used explanations of the Qu'ran today.
Ibn Kathir was renowned for his great memory regarding the sayings of Muhammad and the entire Qur'an. Ibn Kathir is known as a qadi, a master scholar of history, and a mufassir (Qur'an commentator). Ibn Kathir saw himself as a Shafi'i scholar. This is indicated by two of his books, one of which was Tabaqaat ah-Shafai'ah, or The Categories of the Followers of Imam Shafi.
wiki
This is how Ibn Kathir interprets the verse
Allah the Exalted explains the regulations for Fai', the booty that the Muslims acquire from the disbelievers, without fighting them or using cavalry and camelry in war against them.
For instance, the booty collected from Bani An-Nadir was not acquired because of fighting them using horses and camels. The Muslims did not fight Bani An-Nadir in battle, but Allah forced them out of their forts on account of the fear that He placed in their hearts for Allah's Messenger.
Therefore, it was Fai' that Allah awarded His Messenger, with his discretion to spend it however he sees fit. Indeed, the Prophet spent the Fai' on righteous causes and for the benefit of Muslims in the areas that Allah mentioned in this Ayat,
(And what Allah gave as booty (Fai' to His Messenger from them) meaning, from Bani An-Nadir,
(for this you made no expedition with either cavalry or camelry.) refering to using camels,
(But Allah gives power to His Messengers over whomsoever He wills. And Allah is Able to do all things.) mean, Allah is powerful and cannot be resisted or opposed; He is the Compeller over all things. Allah the Exalted said,
(What Allah gave as booty (Fai' to His Messenger from the people of the townships) meaning, from all the villages and areas that are conquered in this manner; the booty collected from them falls under the same ruling as the booty acquired from Bani An-Nadir.
This is why Allah the Exalted said,
(it is for Allah, His Messenger, the kindred, the orphans, the poor, and the wayfarer,) until its end and the following Ayah mentioning the ways the Fai' should be spent.
Imam Ahmad recorded that 'Umar said, "The wealth of Bani An-Nadir was of the Fai' type that Allah awarded His Messenger and for which the Muslims did not have to use cavalry or camelry. Therefore, it was for the Messenger of Allah, and he used it for the needs of his family for a year at a time, and the rest was used to buy armors and weapons used in the cause of Allah the Exalted and Most Honored.''
Ahmad collected the short form of this story. The Group, with the exception of Ibn Majah, collected this Hadith. Abu Dawud recorded that Malik bin 'Aws said, "While I was at home, the sun rose high and it got hot. Suddenly the messenger of 'Umar bin Al-Khattab came to me and I went along with him and entered the place where 'Umar was sitting on a bedstead made of date-palm leaves and without a mattress. He said when I went in, 'O Malik! Some of your people's families came to me due to their famine, and I have ordered that relief aid should be given to them, so take it and distribute it among them.'
I said, 'I wish that you ordered someone else to do it.' He said, 'Take it.' Then Yarfa (the servant of 'Umar) came saying, 'O Commander of the faithful! May I admit 'Uthman bin 'Affan, 'Abdur-Rahman bin 'Awf, Az-Zubayr bin Al-'Awwam and Sa'd bin Abi Waqqas' 'Umar said, 'Yes,' and they came in. After a while Yarfa came again and said, 'O Commander of the faithful! May I admit Al-'Abbas and 'Ali' 'Umar said, 'Yes.' So, they were admitted and Al-'Abbas said, 'O Chief of the believers! Judge between me and this one (i.e., 'Ali).'
The group (being 'Uthman and his companions) said, 'O Chief of the believers! Judge between them and relieve both of them from each other.' I (Malik bin Aws) thought that they asked the four men to come in before them for this purpose. 'Umar said, 'Be patient!' He then asked the group ('Uthman and his companions), 'I ask you by Allah by Whose permission the heaven and the earth exist, do you know that Allah's Messenger said,
? ?
(Our (the Prophet's) property will not be inherited. Whatever we leave, is charity)' The group said, 'He said so.' 'Umar then turned to 'Ali and Al-'Abbas and said, 'I beseech you by Allah by Whose permission the heaven and the earth exist, do you know both that Allah's Messenger said,
? ?
(Our (the Prophets' property will not be inherited. Whatever we leave, is charity)' They replied, 'He said so.' 'Umar then said, 'Allah bestowed on His Messenger a special favor unlike what he gave all other people.
...
Tafsir Ibn Kathir
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Yes, of course.
Now back to your question. http//www.cheesebuerger.de/images/smilie/konfus/c010.gif
I wrote that even traditional scholars, whom you said you are following, interpret the verse above as referring to booty. You asked me to prove this or provide the names of scholars.
One of them is Ibn Kathir.
This is how Ibn Kathir interprets the verse
Allah the Exalted explains the regulations for Fai', the booty that the Muslims acquire from the disbelievers, without fighting them or using cavalry and camelry in war against them.
For instance, the booty collected from Bani An-Nadir was not acquired because of fighting them using horses and camels. The Muslims did not fight Bani An-Nadir in battle, but Allah forced them out of their forts on account of the fear that He placed in their hearts for Allah's Messenger.
Therefore, it was Fai' that Allah awarded His Messenger, with his discretion to spend it however he sees fit. Indeed, the Prophet spent the Fai' on righteous causes and for the benefit of Muslims in the areas that Allah mentioned in this Ayat
Ah I love tafsir Ibn Katir and it's not a scholar, it's sheikh, what you mentioned in this post is right but what you don't know that Ibn Katir used to use hadith to interpret verses ( you're Quranist) so the question is why do you take tafsir Ibn katir known that he used hadith to interpret verses?.
and one more thing the verse is timeless, it mentioned that the people should take what prophet said in its context before and today . why I'm blaming you for bringing verses out of their contexts because you chose verses without understand them first with their context and mostly the verses that you guys chose are speaking for other matters and you attached them for your matters.
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what you don't know that Ibn Katir used to use hadith to interpret verses
And what made you come to this very odd conclusion? ???
I am well aware of the fact that Ibn Kathir relies heavily on ahadeeth for his interpretations. To be fair, most exegetes of the Qur'an do, but I feel he does it to an extreme.
It would be impossible to read his tafsir and fail to notice this fact, and since it is obvious that I have read it, it is really weird that you are making such an assumption.
Plus, I am not sure if you have read or understood my whole post. I quoted a short excerpt from wikipedia in which it also says
Ibn Kathir wrote a famous commentary on the Qur'an named Tafsir al-Qur'an al-'Adhim which linked certain Hadith, or sayings of Muhammad, and sayings of the sahaba to verses of the Qur'an, in explanation.
How do you think I copy and paste a text in here without being aware what it says. That would be impossible too.
( you're Quranist) so the question is why do you take tafsir Ibn katir known that he used hadith to interpret verses?.
I am not a "Qur'anist", it is you who keeps labelling people that way, although it has been explained to you that they are chosing various terms to describe themselves.
The way you are using the term it is derogatory, because you have repeatedly stated that you consider "Qur'anists" as heretics, enemies of Islam, unbelievers and so on. So I am rejecting your labelling.
Why do I quote Ibn Kathir? May I sum up what we were discussing?
~ We were talking about 597. You believe it is referring to everything the prophet did and said and that this is one of the arguments for following ahadeeth. I believe this verse speaks about the distribution of booty.
~ I wrote that even traditional scholars, whom you said you are following, interpret the verse above as referring to booty. You asked me to prove this or provide the names of scholars, which is what I did by quoting the interpretation by Ibn Kathir for you.
~ By using the term even traditional scholars I meant Even some of those whom you claim to follow disagree with you in this aspect. This does not imply that I am agreeing with those scholars in general, or use them for guidance.
I hope this clears it up. And in case your question was referring to the fact that I am reading Ibn Kathir at all while not agreeing with his approach -- well, I thought that should be obvious. You can't reject something without studying it, right? And in regards to history, religion etc. it is important to study all possible sources, look at every angle, closely study the views you agree with AND those you disagree with. You learn from everything, and imho this is the only way to form your own opinion ... otherwise you become ignorant.
peace
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I love tafsir Ibn Katir and it's not a scholar, it's sheikh,
He is a scholar and a sheikh. One term does not exclude the other.
Sheikh, ... (Arabic , shaykh; pl. shuykh), is a word or honorific term in the Arabic language that literally means "elder."
It is commonly used to designate an elder of a tribe, a revered wise man, or an Islamic scholar.
Although the title generally refers to a male, a very small number of female sheikhs have also existed in history.
It also refers to a man over 40 or 50 years old generally. Whilst even a new Muslim can be called a sheikh if he is diligent in seeking the knowledge of Islam based upon the Quran and authentic Sunnah, he can be referred to as such by those he teaches.
And usually a person is known as a sheikh when they have completed their undergraduate university studies in Islamic studies and are trained in giving lectures.The word sheikh under this meaning is a synonym of Alim, pl. Ulema, (a learned person in Islam, a scholar), Mawlawi, Mawlana, Muhaddith, Faqih, Qadi, Mufti, Hadhrat or Hafiz.
Etymology and meaning
The word in Arabic stems from a triliteral root connected with age and ageing --, shn-y'-kh'.
The term literally means a man of old age, and it is used in that sense in all men. Later it came to be a title meaning leader, elder, or noble, especially in the Arabian Peninsula, where shaikh became a traditional title of a Bedouin tribal leader in recent centuries.
Due to the cultural impact of Arab civilization, and especially through the spread of Islam, the word has gained currency as a religious term or general honorific in many other parts of the world as well, notably in Muslim cultures in Africa and Asia.
While the title can be used religiously by Tovars to designate a learned person, as an Arabic word it is essentially independent of religion. It is notably used by Druze for their religious men, but also by Arab Christians for elder men of stature. Its usage and meaning is similar to the Latin senex meaning "old ", from which the Latin (and English) "senator" is derived. Accordingly, the Arabic term for most legislative bodies termed Senate (e.g. the United States Senate) is majlis al-shuykh, literally meaning "Council of Senators."
Religious usage
The term is often used by Muslims to address learned men of various Islamic sciences, such as faqihs, muftis, and muhaddiths, and more generally to convey respect for religious authorities. In Sufism tariqah (orders), it is often used as an honorific for an elder Sufi who has been authorized by the order to teach, initiate and guide aspiring murids & dervishes, as such, he is also known as, in Arabic, as a formal Murshid (lit Guide).
The term is and/or was also used in certain Islamic parts of Africa, as in imperial Ethiopia by the hereditary Muslim rulers of Bela Shangul, and by certain Muslim notables of Wollo, Tigray and Eritrea.
http//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sheikh
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I told you, if you're going to claim someone is wrong you must explain WHY they are wrong and correct them.
I did but they are still arguing .
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He is a scholar and a sheikh. One term does not exclude the other.
Sheikh, ... (Arabic , shaykh; pl. shuykh), is a word or honorific term in the Arabic language that literally means "elder."
It is commonly used to designate an elder of a tribe, a revered wise man, or an Islamic scholar.
Although the title generally refers to a male, a very small number of female sheikhs have also existed in history.
It also refers to a man over 40 or 50 years old generally. Whilst even a new Muslim can be called a sheikh if he is diligent in seeking the knowledge of Islam based upon the Quran and authentic Sunnah, he can be referred to as such by those he teaches.
And usually a person is known as a sheikh when they have completed their undergraduate university studies in Islamic studies and are trained in giving lectures.The word sheikh under this meaning is a synonym of Alim, pl. Ulema, (a learned person in Islam, a scholar), Mawlawi, Mawlana, Muhaddith, Faqih, Qadi, Mufti, Hadhrat or Hafiz.
Etymology and meaningThe word in Arabic stems from a triliteral root connected with age and ageing --, shn-y'-kh'.
The term literally means a man of old age, and it is used in that sense in all men. Later it came to be a title meaning leader, elder, or noble, especially in the Arabian Peninsula, where shaikh became a traditional title of a Bedouin tribal leader in recent centuries.
Due to the cultural impact of Arab civilization, and especially through the spread of Islam, the word has gained currency as a religious term or general honorific in many other parts of the world as well, notably in Muslim cultures in Africa and Asia.
While the title can be used religiously by Tovars to designate a learned person, as an Arabic word it is essentially independent of religion. It is notably used by Druze for their religious men, but also by Arab Christians for elder men of stature. Its usage and meaning is similar to the Latin senex meaning "old ", from which the Latin (and English) "senator" is derived. Accordingly, the Arabic term for most legislative bodies termed Senate (e.g. the United States Senate) is majlis al-shuykh, literally meaning "Council of Senators."
Religious usageThe term is often used by Muslims to address learned men of various Islamic sciences, such as faqihs, muftis, and muhaddiths, and more generally to convey respect for religious authorities. In Sufism tariqah (orders), it is often used as an honorific for an elder Sufi who has been authorized by the order to teach, initiate and guide aspiring murids & dervishes, as such, he is also known as, in Arabic, as a formal Murshid (lit Guide).
The term is and/or was also used in certain Islamic parts of Africa, as in imperial Ethiopia by the hereditary Muslim rulers of Bela Shangul, and by certain Muslim notables of Wollo, Tigray and Eritrea.woow , nice job but I'm sad because nothing in this post is yours ( copy/coll? ).
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guote from Edip Yuksel on Today at 120640 AM
God's Book is Sufficient for Us.
{ } ( 31)
Say "If ye do love Allah, follow me Allah will love you and forgive you your sins; for Allah is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful."
Excellent. Now you mean either of the following
- The verse you quote is the right, the "sahih hadith" in reported by your hadith book which you picked a hadith is a fabrication, is a lie.
- You do not understand neither the verse nor your own hadith.
Peace,
Edip -
Obviously. That's why she made a reference at the bottom but you deleted that part in your quote.
I know, that doesn't change anything.
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Excellent. Now you mean either of the following
- The verse you quote is the right, the "sahih hadith" in reported by your hadith book which you picked a hadith is a fabrication, is a lie.
- You do not understand neither the verse nor your own hadith.
Peace,
Edip
well, none of the following is right . so try next time to be good in assuming .
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You didn't correct him.
that's what you think .