did Qur'anists know that the prophet has mentioned them ?
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The people who pretended that they took the Path with the Messenger while actually they moved alongwith his enemies who conjectured stories falsily attributing to him, listen their whole statement;
The people who pretend that they took the Path with the messanger and they pretend that they follow Qur'an is Qur'anists. moving to the verses that you have stated. by the way they have translated by Quranists which make them good for you .
http//haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/025.%20Al%20Furqan/25.27.gif
And that Day the unjust/distorter/imbalanced will in extreme distress biting on his hands will regretfully exclaim to himself,
http//haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/025.%20Al%20Furqan/25.27a.gif
"Alas, I had adopted the path along with the Messenger
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Woe to me, alas I had not taken such and such person as intimate friend.the verses talked about the infidels in general, but in the beginning i was talked about the people of Quraish where the prophet used to live(his native land and his native people ) who they didn't believe him and who they didn't take what he said from Quran and this absolutely out of the topic (next time try to bring something you did understand). again the verse translated by Quranists so it served their weak ambitions of destroying Islam.
WHAT DID RESULT BY ADOPTING BUKHARI etc; they will say
http//haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/025.%20Al%20Furqan/25.29.gif
Of course he made me forgetful and strayed from the Reminder/Admonition/the Book-, after that it had reached to me;
http//haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/025.%20Al%20Furqan/25.29a.gif
and Shai'taan for man has always been a deserter".http//haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/025.%20Al%20Furqan/25.30.gif
And the Messenger said, "O My Sustainer Lord! It is true that My Nation had made this Grand Qur'aan restricted "http//haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/025.%20Al%20Furqan/Temp%2001%2025.31.gif
And this is the reason that We have declared for each and every Chosen and Elevated Servant of Allah as his enemy from amongst the criminals.the verses still in the same situation where the prophet complained to God that his own people from Quraish(the infidels) deny his Quran and they took it as a restricted book. so let me remind you that Sunnah people read and take Quran more than the Quranists . Ah let alone that they know things more than Quranists.
attached Bukhari to the verse is a mistake a big mistake , so be careful it might registred now as a sin, because the verse never mentioned anything about this man and it talks about infidels from Quraish.
IT IS TIME TO RETURN TO THE BOOK OF ALLAH SINCERELY AND EXCLUSIVELY BEFORE IT IS TOO LATE
http//haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/025.%20Al%20Furqan/025.%20B%20%20Al%20Furqan.htmIt is time to wake up and go read and study because your knowledge about Quran is not superficial as I think, but it's also less than superficial, taking the verse from a Quranists source will not make you think using your mind neither in your hand using your mind.
and those Quranists who they attached things wich they are far away of the real interpretations of Quran and what the verses said, are surely waiting a punishement from God.these are the real verses with their translations in english
(25) (26) (27) (2 (29)
The Day that the wrong-doer will bite at his hands, he will say, "Oh! Would that I had taken a (straight) path with the Messenger!
"Ah! Woe is me! Would that I had never taken such a one for a friend!
"He did lead me astray from the Message (of Allah) after it had come to me! Ah! The Evil One is but a traitor to man!
Then the Messenger will say "O my Lord! truly my people took this Qur-an for just foolish nonsense."
Thus have We made for every prophet an enemy among the sinners but enough is thy Lord to guide and to help..Again the verses talked about the infidels from Quraish, where the people of the prophet were living . he called them my people because he sent to them, he doesn't talk about Sunnah which they are followers of him.
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Telling people not to talk about what they don't know isn't a sufficient response or refutation. If you believe that your knowledge or interpretation is superior then it is incumbent upon you to educate those of us with feeble minds.
They don't want to learn, care to give me an idea about how I behave over them?
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You shall not treat the people with arrogance, nor shall you roam the earth carefree. God does not like the arrogant showoffs.
3118
O you who believe, no people shall ridicule other people, for they may be better than they.
Nor shall any women ridicule other women, for they may be better than they.
Nor shall you mock one another, or call each other names.
Evil indeed is the reversion to wickedness after attaining faith.
Anyone who does not repent after this, these are the transgressors.
4911I'm not arrogant, I've said the truth that I'm better than him. is that arrogance ? . being better than someone, means that he should listen to you not bring silly ideas where he will look like a fool man.
... God thus clarifies the revelations for you, that you may reflect
2219
It is thus that God makes clear for you the signs that you may reflect.
2266I hope you understand these two verses.
You have accused people of twisting the meaning of certain verses by taking them out of context; yet this is what you are doing here.
No, of course I'll not make this mistake as guys do here.
This verse does not in any way refer to ahadeeth. Even traditional scholars, whom you said you are following, do not interpret it this way.
can you prove what you said ? or at least give me the names of these scholars as you claimed?
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can you prove what you said ? or at least give me the names of these scholars as you claimed?
Yes, of course.
But let us first look at the whole verse. By the way, could you kindly attach the number of the surah and verse if you quote from the Qur'an? That makes it easier for anyone participating in this discussion, or reading it, to check the verse for themselves, look at the context etc.
You were quoting from 597. Briefly said, surah 59 deals with the expulsion of the "unbelievers among the people of the book" (i.e. the treacherous Jews) from the neighbourhood of Medina.
What Allah has bestowed on His Messenger (and taken away) from the people of the townships, belongs to Allah,? to His Messenger and to kindred and orphans, the needy and the wayfarer;? In order that it may not (merely) make a circuit between the wealthy among you. So take what the Messenger assigns to you, and deny yourselves that which he withholds from you. And fear Allah; for Allah is strict in Punishment.
(Yusuf Ali)What Allah has bestowed on His Messenger (and taken away) from the people of the townships, belongs to Allah,? to His Messenger and to kindred and orphans, the needy and the wayfarer;? In order that it may not (merely) make a circuit between the wealthy among you. So take what the Messenger assigns to you, and refrain from what he prohibits you. And fear Allah; for Allah is strict in Punishment.
(modified Yusuf Ali translation from "the presidency of islamic researches, IFTA, call and guidance"That which Allah giveth as spoil unto His messenger from the people of the townships, it is for Allah and His messenger and for the near of kin and the orphans and the needy and the wayfarer, that it become not a commodity between the rich among you. And whatsoever the messenger giveth you, take it. And whatsoever he forbiddeth, abstain (from it). And keep your duty to Allah. Lo! Allah is stern in reprisal.
(Pickthal)Whatever Allah has restored to His Messenger from the people of the towns, it is for Allah and for the Messenger, and for the near of kin and the orphans and the needy and the wayfarer, so that it may not be a thing taken by turns among the rich of you, and whatever the Messenger gives you, accept it, and from whatever he forbids you, keep back, and be careful of (your duty to) Allah; surely Allah is severe in retributing (evil)
(Shakir)Whatever God bestowed upon His messenger from the people of the towns, then it shall be to God and His messenger, and the relatives, and the orphans, and the poor, and the wayfarer. Thus, it will not remain monopolized by the rich among you. And you may take what the messenger gives you, but do not take what he prohibits you from taking. And be aware of God, for God is mighty in retribution.
(Free Minds)Whatever God provided to His messenger from the people of the townships, then it shall be to God and His messenger; for the relatives, the orphans, the poor, and the wayfarer. Thus, it will not remain monopolized by the rich among you. You may take what the messenger gives you, but do not take what he withholds you from taking. Be aware of God, for God is mighty in retribution.
(Yuksel / Saleh al-Shaiban / Schulte-Nafeh)Now back to your question. http//www.cheesebuerger.de/images/smilie/konfus/c010.gif
I wrote that even traditional scholars, whom you said you are following, interpret the verse above as referring to booty. You asked me to prove this or provide the names of scholars.
One of them is Ibn Kathir.
Ibn Kathir wrote a famous commentary on the Qur'an named Tafsir al-Qur'an al-'Adhim which linked certain Hadith, or sayings of Muhammad, and sayings of the sahaba to verses of the Qur'an, in explanation. Tafsir Ibn Kathir is famous all over the Muslim world and among Muslims in the Western world, is one of the most widely used explanations of the Qu'ran today.
Ibn Kathir was renowned for his great memory regarding the sayings of Muhammad and the entire Qur'an. Ibn Kathir is known as a qadi, a master scholar of history, and a mufassir (Qur'an commentator). Ibn Kathir saw himself as a Shafi'i scholar. This is indicated by two of his books, one of which was Tabaqaat ah-Shafai'ah, or The Categories of the Followers of Imam Shafi.
wiki
This is how Ibn Kathir interprets the verse
Allah the Exalted explains the regulations for Fai', the booty that the Muslims acquire from the disbelievers, without fighting them or using cavalry and camelry in war against them.
For instance, the booty collected from Bani An-Nadir was not acquired because of fighting them using horses and camels. The Muslims did not fight Bani An-Nadir in battle, but Allah forced them out of their forts on account of the fear that He placed in their hearts for Allah's Messenger.
Therefore, it was Fai' that Allah awarded His Messenger, with his discretion to spend it however he sees fit. Indeed, the Prophet spent the Fai' on righteous causes and for the benefit of Muslims in the areas that Allah mentioned in this Ayat,
(And what Allah gave as booty (Fai' to His Messenger from them) meaning, from Bani An-Nadir,
(for this you made no expedition with either cavalry or camelry.) refering to using camels,
(But Allah gives power to His Messengers over whomsoever He wills. And Allah is Able to do all things.) mean, Allah is powerful and cannot be resisted or opposed; He is the Compeller over all things. Allah the Exalted said,
(What Allah gave as booty (Fai' to His Messenger from the people of the townships) meaning, from all the villages and areas that are conquered in this manner; the booty collected from them falls under the same ruling as the booty acquired from Bani An-Nadir.
This is why Allah the Exalted said,
(it is for Allah, His Messenger, the kindred, the orphans, the poor, and the wayfarer,) until its end and the following Ayah mentioning the ways the Fai' should be spent.
Imam Ahmad recorded that 'Umar said, "The wealth of Bani An-Nadir was of the Fai' type that Allah awarded His Messenger and for which the Muslims did not have to use cavalry or camelry. Therefore, it was for the Messenger of Allah, and he used it for the needs of his family for a year at a time, and the rest was used to buy armors and weapons used in the cause of Allah the Exalted and Most Honored.''
Ahmad collected the short form of this story. The Group, with the exception of Ibn Majah, collected this Hadith. Abu Dawud recorded that Malik bin 'Aws said, "While I was at home, the sun rose high and it got hot. Suddenly the messenger of 'Umar bin Al-Khattab came to me and I went along with him and entered the place where 'Umar was sitting on a bedstead made of date-palm leaves and without a mattress. He said when I went in, 'O Malik! Some of your people's families came to me due to their famine, and I have ordered that relief aid should be given to them, so take it and distribute it among them.'
I said, 'I wish that you ordered someone else to do it.' He said, 'Take it.' Then Yarfa (the servant of 'Umar) came saying, 'O Commander of the faithful! May I admit 'Uthman bin 'Affan, 'Abdur-Rahman bin 'Awf, Az-Zubayr bin Al-'Awwam and Sa'd bin Abi Waqqas' 'Umar said, 'Yes,' and they came in. After a while Yarfa came again and said, 'O Commander of the faithful! May I admit Al-'Abbas and 'Ali' 'Umar said, 'Yes.' So, they were admitted and Al-'Abbas said, 'O Chief of the believers! Judge between me and this one (i.e., 'Ali).'
The group (being 'Uthman and his companions) said, 'O Chief of the believers! Judge between them and relieve both of them from each other.' I (Malik bin Aws) thought that they asked the four men to come in before them for this purpose. 'Umar said, 'Be patient!' He then asked the group ('Uthman and his companions), 'I ask you by Allah by Whose permission the heaven and the earth exist, do you know that Allah's Messenger said,
? ?
(Our (the Prophet's) property will not be inherited. Whatever we leave, is charity)' The group said, 'He said so.' 'Umar then turned to 'Ali and Al-'Abbas and said, 'I beseech you by Allah by Whose permission the heaven and the earth exist, do you know both that Allah's Messenger said,
? ?
(Our (the Prophets' property will not be inherited. Whatever we leave, is charity)' They replied, 'He said so.' 'Umar then said, 'Allah bestowed on His Messenger a special favor unlike what he gave all other people.
...
Tafsir Ibn Kathir
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Yes, of course.
Now back to your question. http//www.cheesebuerger.de/images/smilie/konfus/c010.gif
I wrote that even traditional scholars, whom you said you are following, interpret the verse above as referring to booty. You asked me to prove this or provide the names of scholars.
One of them is Ibn Kathir.
This is how Ibn Kathir interprets the verse
Allah the Exalted explains the regulations for Fai', the booty that the Muslims acquire from the disbelievers, without fighting them or using cavalry and camelry in war against them.
For instance, the booty collected from Bani An-Nadir was not acquired because of fighting them using horses and camels. The Muslims did not fight Bani An-Nadir in battle, but Allah forced them out of their forts on account of the fear that He placed in their hearts for Allah's Messenger.
Therefore, it was Fai' that Allah awarded His Messenger, with his discretion to spend it however he sees fit. Indeed, the Prophet spent the Fai' on righteous causes and for the benefit of Muslims in the areas that Allah mentioned in this Ayat
Ah I love tafsir Ibn Katir and it's not a scholar, it's sheikh, what you mentioned in this post is right but what you don't know that Ibn Katir used to use hadith to interpret verses ( you're Quranist) so the question is why do you take tafsir Ibn katir known that he used hadith to interpret verses?.
and one more thing the verse is timeless, it mentioned that the people should take what prophet said in its context before and today . why I'm blaming you for bringing verses out of their contexts because you chose verses without understand them first with their context and mostly the verses that you guys chose are speaking for other matters and you attached them for your matters.
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what you don't know that Ibn Katir used to use hadith to interpret verses
And what made you come to this very odd conclusion? ???
I am well aware of the fact that Ibn Kathir relies heavily on ahadeeth for his interpretations. To be fair, most exegetes of the Qur'an do, but I feel he does it to an extreme.
It would be impossible to read his tafsir and fail to notice this fact, and since it is obvious that I have read it, it is really weird that you are making such an assumption.
Plus, I am not sure if you have read or understood my whole post. I quoted a short excerpt from wikipedia in which it also says
Ibn Kathir wrote a famous commentary on the Qur'an named Tafsir al-Qur'an al-'Adhim which linked certain Hadith, or sayings of Muhammad, and sayings of the sahaba to verses of the Qur'an, in explanation.
How do you think I copy and paste a text in here without being aware what it says. That would be impossible too.
( you're Quranist) so the question is why do you take tafsir Ibn katir known that he used hadith to interpret verses?.
I am not a "Qur'anist", it is you who keeps labelling people that way, although it has been explained to you that they are chosing various terms to describe themselves.
The way you are using the term it is derogatory, because you have repeatedly stated that you consider "Qur'anists" as heretics, enemies of Islam, unbelievers and so on. So I am rejecting your labelling.
Why do I quote Ibn Kathir? May I sum up what we were discussing?
~ We were talking about 597. You believe it is referring to everything the prophet did and said and that this is one of the arguments for following ahadeeth. I believe this verse speaks about the distribution of booty.
~ I wrote that even traditional scholars, whom you said you are following, interpret the verse above as referring to booty. You asked me to prove this or provide the names of scholars, which is what I did by quoting the interpretation by Ibn Kathir for you.
~ By using the term even traditional scholars I meant Even some of those whom you claim to follow disagree with you in this aspect. This does not imply that I am agreeing with those scholars in general, or use them for guidance.
I hope this clears it up. And in case your question was referring to the fact that I am reading Ibn Kathir at all while not agreeing with his approach -- well, I thought that should be obvious. You can't reject something without studying it, right? And in regards to history, religion etc. it is important to study all possible sources, look at every angle, closely study the views you agree with AND those you disagree with. You learn from everything, and imho this is the only way to form your own opinion ... otherwise you become ignorant.
peace
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I love tafsir Ibn Katir and it's not a scholar, it's sheikh,
He is a scholar and a sheikh. One term does not exclude the other.
Sheikh, ... (Arabic , shaykh; pl. shuykh), is a word or honorific term in the Arabic language that literally means "elder."
It is commonly used to designate an elder of a tribe, a revered wise man, or an Islamic scholar.
Although the title generally refers to a male, a very small number of female sheikhs have also existed in history.
It also refers to a man over 40 or 50 years old generally. Whilst even a new Muslim can be called a sheikh if he is diligent in seeking the knowledge of Islam based upon the Quran and authentic Sunnah, he can be referred to as such by those he teaches.
And usually a person is known as a sheikh when they have completed their undergraduate university studies in Islamic studies and are trained in giving lectures.The word sheikh under this meaning is a synonym of Alim, pl. Ulema, (a learned person in Islam, a scholar), Mawlawi, Mawlana, Muhaddith, Faqih, Qadi, Mufti, Hadhrat or Hafiz.
Etymology and meaning
The word in Arabic stems from a triliteral root connected with age and ageing --, shn-y'-kh'.
The term literally means a man of old age, and it is used in that sense in all men. Later it came to be a title meaning leader, elder, or noble, especially in the Arabian Peninsula, where shaikh became a traditional title of a Bedouin tribal leader in recent centuries.
Due to the cultural impact of Arab civilization, and especially through the spread of Islam, the word has gained currency as a religious term or general honorific in many other parts of the world as well, notably in Muslim cultures in Africa and Asia.
While the title can be used religiously by Tovars to designate a learned person, as an Arabic word it is essentially independent of religion. It is notably used by Druze for their religious men, but also by Arab Christians for elder men of stature. Its usage and meaning is similar to the Latin senex meaning "old ", from which the Latin (and English) "senator" is derived. Accordingly, the Arabic term for most legislative bodies termed Senate (e.g. the United States Senate) is majlis al-shuykh, literally meaning "Council of Senators."
Religious usage
The term is often used by Muslims to address learned men of various Islamic sciences, such as faqihs, muftis, and muhaddiths, and more generally to convey respect for religious authorities. In Sufism tariqah (orders), it is often used as an honorific for an elder Sufi who has been authorized by the order to teach, initiate and guide aspiring murids & dervishes, as such, he is also known as, in Arabic, as a formal Murshid (lit Guide).
The term is and/or was also used in certain Islamic parts of Africa, as in imperial Ethiopia by the hereditary Muslim rulers of Bela Shangul, and by certain Muslim notables of Wollo, Tigray and Eritrea.
http//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sheikh
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I told you, if you're going to claim someone is wrong you must explain WHY they are wrong and correct them.
I did but they are still arguing .
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He is a scholar and a sheikh. One term does not exclude the other.
Sheikh, ... (Arabic , shaykh; pl. shuykh), is a word or honorific term in the Arabic language that literally means "elder."
It is commonly used to designate an elder of a tribe, a revered wise man, or an Islamic scholar.
Although the title generally refers to a male, a very small number of female sheikhs have also existed in history.
It also refers to a man over 40 or 50 years old generally. Whilst even a new Muslim can be called a sheikh if he is diligent in seeking the knowledge of Islam based upon the Quran and authentic Sunnah, he can be referred to as such by those he teaches.
And usually a person is known as a sheikh when they have completed their undergraduate university studies in Islamic studies and are trained in giving lectures.The word sheikh under this meaning is a synonym of Alim, pl. Ulema, (a learned person in Islam, a scholar), Mawlawi, Mawlana, Muhaddith, Faqih, Qadi, Mufti, Hadhrat or Hafiz.
Etymology and meaningThe word in Arabic stems from a triliteral root connected with age and ageing --, shn-y'-kh'.
The term literally means a man of old age, and it is used in that sense in all men. Later it came to be a title meaning leader, elder, or noble, especially in the Arabian Peninsula, where shaikh became a traditional title of a Bedouin tribal leader in recent centuries.
Due to the cultural impact of Arab civilization, and especially through the spread of Islam, the word has gained currency as a religious term or general honorific in many other parts of the world as well, notably in Muslim cultures in Africa and Asia.
While the title can be used religiously by Tovars to designate a learned person, as an Arabic word it is essentially independent of religion. It is notably used by Druze for their religious men, but also by Arab Christians for elder men of stature. Its usage and meaning is similar to the Latin senex meaning "old ", from which the Latin (and English) "senator" is derived. Accordingly, the Arabic term for most legislative bodies termed Senate (e.g. the United States Senate) is majlis al-shuykh, literally meaning "Council of Senators."
Religious usageThe term is often used by Muslims to address learned men of various Islamic sciences, such as faqihs, muftis, and muhaddiths, and more generally to convey respect for religious authorities. In Sufism tariqah (orders), it is often used as an honorific for an elder Sufi who has been authorized by the order to teach, initiate and guide aspiring murids & dervishes, as such, he is also known as, in Arabic, as a formal Murshid (lit Guide).
The term is and/or was also used in certain Islamic parts of Africa, as in imperial Ethiopia by the hereditary Muslim rulers of Bela Shangul, and by certain Muslim notables of Wollo, Tigray and Eritrea.woow , nice job but I'm sad because nothing in this post is yours ( copy/coll? ).
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guote from Edip Yuksel on Today at 120640 AM
God's Book is Sufficient for Us.
{ } ( 31)
Say "If ye do love Allah, follow me Allah will love you and forgive you your sins; for Allah is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful."
Excellent. Now you mean either of the following
- The verse you quote is the right, the "sahih hadith" in reported by your hadith book which you picked a hadith is a fabrication, is a lie.
- You do not understand neither the verse nor your own hadith.
Peace,
Edip -
Obviously. That's why she made a reference at the bottom but you deleted that part in your quote.
I know, that doesn't change anything.
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Excellent. Now you mean either of the following
- The verse you quote is the right, the "sahih hadith" in reported by your hadith book which you picked a hadith is a fabrication, is a lie.
- You do not understand neither the verse nor your own hadith.
Peace,
Edip
well, none of the following is right . so try next time to be good in assuming .
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You didn't correct him.
that's what you think .
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Lol, you're doing it again man!
Show me where you corrected him.
they said "we're rejecting hadith"
I said " don't reject hadith because it is important"
P.S this video for all Quranists http//www.youtube.com/watch?v=MZS5zRy7mak&NR=1 and it is talking about the same thread .
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http//Reply 158 I'm not arrogant, I've said the truth that I'm better than him. is that arrogance ? . being better than someone, means that he should listen to you not bring silly ideas where he will look like a fool man
http//haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/007.%20Al%20Airaaf/007.%20A20.gif
He replied ,"I am better than him. You created me from fire and You created him from clay"Is it arrogance or not? The Verdict of Allah is this
http//haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/007.%20Al%20Airaaf/7.013.gifHe said, "Then get down from it for the reason that it is not appropriate for you to be proud therein. Therefore you get out, indeed you are amongst the abased, the contemptible"
http//haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/007.%20Al%20Airaaf/007.%20Al%20Airaaf%20B.htm
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http//Reply 158 I'm not arrogant, I've said the truth that I'm better than him. is that arrogance ? . being better than someone, means that he should listen to you not bring silly ideas where he will look like a fool man
http//haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/007.%20Al%20Airaaf/007.%20A20.gif
He replied ,"I am better than him. You created me from fire and You created him from clay"
Is it arrogance or not? The Verdict of Allah is this
http//haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/007.%20Al%20Airaaf/7.013.gif
He said, "Then get down from it for the reason that it is not appropriate for you to be proud therein. Therefore you get out, indeed you are amongst the abased, the contemptible"
http//haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/007.%20Al%20Airaaf/007.%20Al%20Airaaf%20B.htmwell, the verse is too clear the Satan said that he is better than Adam in Creation not in knowledge . I said I'm better than him and I meant by it that I know things more than him. So there is no relation between the verse and what I said .