did Qur'anists know that the prophet has mentioned them ?
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Listan pal, lets not hide behind this grammatical nonsense. The Quran not only came in the beginning of the verse, it is the only thing mentioned in the verse. Why was the Prophet not told to say 'i cant change it EXCEPT with hadith' or 'i can abrogate or specifiy it with hadith' ? No no no, only the Quran is mentioned and thats the only thing which was revealed.
well, I know arabic very well and I can prove that the verse didn't talk about Qur'an only, God revealed some future events to his prophet, these future events some of them are not mentioned in Qur'an. According to my opinion that God wants from the prophet to warn the next generations after his death(Muslims generations), and to strethen his message in the future because people now when they read the hadith sahih, they found that some cases in hadiths are so miraculous like the building of the mosque in Sana'a (it is a geographical Miracle from the prophet where there was no GPS no Satelittes to know the exact Latitude and longitude and to know the right directions)
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the story is not fabricated, the which stuff exists and the types of which stuff plenty and it depends in the ability of the magicians (some do silly tricks, some powerful tricks from hurting people and control their lives( under what God has made in our destiny), some do sorcery and some use black magic).
and the prophets are not away from not being bewitched (if God wants to show that they are human after all), look for the story of Moses when he saw what the magicians threw from sticks and cords which they are turned into snakes.
This is the "hallucinating" effect of stories by Bukhari and others. Pl read Qur'aan it nowhere says that those ropes and sticks turned into snakes. It says that an illusion was created and it was perceived as ONE snake moving in the thoughts of the people. And remember "sehr" is called only when the effect should be perceived the same by all.
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well, I know arabic very well and I can prove that the verse didn't talk about Qur'an only, God revealed some future events to his prophet, these future events some of them are not mentioned in Qur'an. According to my opinion that God wants from the prophet to warn the next generations after his death(Muslims generations), and to strethen his message in the future because people now when they read the hadith sahih, they found that some cases in hadiths are so miraculous like the building of the mosque in Sana'a (it is a geographical Miracle from the prophet where there was no GPS no Satelittes to know the exact Latitude and longitude and to know the right directions)
Oh ok, can you USING ARABIC ONLY, prove to me that the ayah talks about OTHER than quran? I'd like to see what grammar rules can imagine something which isnt even mentioned there. Thanks
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Firstly, I didn?t narrate the hadith. Bukhari did. Blame him.
Fistly, you did not write the whole hadith. so maybe you're trying to take what he is good for you.
Secondly, this is NOT the same hadith which I quoted. You have no proof that it is the same event because Bukhari simply recorded random bits of information.
this is the same hadith, and what I wrote is more detailed than yours . what ? I have no proof ..I have three books in front of me, so cut this thing off the situation.
Thirdly, you?re right that the verb is do (yaf3alu) but doesn?t hadith include deeds of the Prophet as well? Are you saying he can be bewitched in doings but not sayings?
Yes, according to the hadith, he was bewitched in doing things which in fact had not done, and the hadith narrated by Aisha and she to avoid that he was talking about private things she said "" and if we look about the meaning of the verb other than "do", we will find that the verb means also the deeds of the privates things between the husband and his wife.
Fourth, can you please quote from where you get that this ?bewitching? thing is only for sleeping with his wives and nothing else?
Quote ??? I have books in front of me and I gave you the information so go look for it yourself and be sure. I interpret the meaning of the verb "yaf3alo" and it is with no doubt means "sleeping whith his wives" because we use this verb in arabic when we want to refer to sexual intercourse.
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This is the "hallucinating" effect of stories by Bukhari and others. Pl read Qur'aan it nowhere says that those ropes and sticks turned into snakes. It says that an illusion was created and it was perceived as ONE snake moving in the thoughts of the people. And remember "sehr" is called only when the effect should be perceived the same by all.
Yes , I agree that Moses saw the sticks and the cords as snakes (it's the illusion of Magic ), so I want just to pointed out that prophets are not away from being bewitched.
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Salamun alaikum,
Reformer - you have the audacity to accuse Allah-alone worshippers of disrespecting the Prophet (S) and you are doing the very thing by saying that he (S) was bewitched, or capable of being bewitched
257 Yet they say, ?What sort of messenger is this who eats food and goes about in the market-places? Why is not an angel sent down to him to act as a warner together with him??
258 ?Or why has not a treasure been bestowed on him, or why has he not a garden for enjoyment?? The wicked say, ?You are but following a man bewitched!?
259 See what sort of examples they apply to you! They have strayed too far to find a way.When you are talking about the other prophets
26150 Be mindful of God and heed me.
26151 And do not obey the command of those who trespass the bounds of justice and equity.
26152 Those who spread corruption in the land, and reform not.?
26153 But they replied, "You are but one of the bewitched.
26154 You are just a mortal like us. So bring us a miracle if you are a man of truth."Saying the he (S) was bewitch-able is a sign that he (S) was a mortal is not the right thing to say - it says that he was capable of being influenced by something which does not exist. Magic does not exist. Period. Just because you don't understand something does not make that thing magic or witchcraft. If there is such a thing as witchcraft - prove it, in a controlled environment. Illusions and trickery are different - like camera tricks. But that is what they are, they are tricks - nothing more. Do you think that the noble rasool (S) would be effected by illusions? I think it is you who should think twice before insulting ANY of the exemplars of humanity.
Peace
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Oh ok, can you USING ARABIC ONLY, prove to me that the ayah talks about OTHER than quran? I'd like to see what grammar rules can imagine something which isnt even mentioned there. Thanks )
(15) (16)
this is the verses in arabic, what you don't know that here in these verses the infidels asked the prophet to bring to them another book from sky like Qur'an or change it, and the answer from the prophet was that he just said what God revealed to him and that if God's will was not to recite him or make it known, he will not do it. so you chose the wrong verse .because as I see it's out of their context yes hmm ..so the verse talks about something else.
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I hope you know that declaring takfeer on someone is a serious sin, reformer.
and what's really makes them out of the context of Iman"faith" despite all being a followers of the book of Allah
O you who believe! When you go abroad in the cause of Allah, investigate carefully, and say not to any one who offers you a salutation "Thou art not a believer!"...
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Salamun alaikum,
Reformer - you have the audacity to accuse Allah-alone worshippers of disrespecting the Prophet (S) and you are doing the very thing by saying that he (S) was bewitched, or capable of being bewitchedSalamun Alaykom,
well, as I see " " ..I respect my prophet peace be upon him, and as I said that the prophet are not away from which stuff after all they are human as well with some Major difference that the which stuff can influence in human in a severe way (if it was in one's destiny) but in the case of prophet the which stuff can not influence in him but he will feel it plus that he will show them how to abolish it.
257 Yet they say, ?What sort of messenger is this who eats food and goes about in the market-places? Why is not an angel sent down to him to act as a warner together with him??
258 ?Or why has not a treasure been bestowed on him, or why has he not a garden for enjoyment?? The wicked say, ?You are but following a man bewitched!?
259 See what sort of examples they apply to you! They have strayed too far to find a way.I don't see any point of stating these verses, offtopic
When you are talking about the other prophets
26150 Be mindful of God and heed me.
26151 And do not obey the command of those who trespass the bounds of justice and equity.
26152 Those who spread corruption in the land, and reform not.?
26153 But they replied, "You are but one of the bewitched.
26154 You are just a mortal like us. So bring us a miracle if you are a man of truth."first of all, what you stated here is the beginning of the message of the prophet, when the infidels and the non-believers called the prophet peace be upon him that he is one of the bewitched, so there is no relation between what I stated in hadith and what you stated from Qur'an (again you chose the wrong verse) .
the verse talks about a specific period when the infidels have spread that this man "the prophet peace be upon him" is just a bewitched one for one thing is weakened his Morals and because the people in this period of time were afraid from which stuff because it was like a curse from a which or a bad signs of following this person that he was bewitched or touching it, because they were thinking that the curse will spread on them too.
so this is the cause of the shadings of this verse, so nothing at all touched the subject.
Saying the he (S) was bewitch-able is a sign that he (S) was a mortal is not the right thing to say - it says that he was capable of being influenced by something which does not exist. Magic does not exist. Period. Just because you don't understand something does not make that thing magic or witchcraft. If there is such a thing as witchcraft - prove it, in a controlled environment. Illusions and trickery are different - like camera tricks. But that is what they are, they are tricks - nothing more. Do you think that the noble rasool (S) would be effected by illusions? I think it is you who should think twice before insulting ANY of the exemplars of humanity.
Peace
dwhat ? yes the prophet was Mortal, what do you mean that he wasn't ?
what again ? Yes Magic exists and God told us about his power but at the same time told us that who has been attacked by Magic, he has to be patient because after all he is under the mercy of God and this is a test for him(the bewitched) to see his real faith .
( ى
( س.
( )
my brother, the Jewish were magicians and they have used magic to separate the man from his wife. Go read a little bit of Qur'an , there are more than 10 verses talk about Magic.
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I hope you know that declaring takfeer on someone is a serious sin, reformer.
O you who believe! When you go abroad in the cause of Allah, investigate carefully, and say not to any one who offers you a salutation "Thou art not a believer!"...
494ah thank you for the advice but I've pointed out what God said not me .
(65)
But no, by thy Lord, they can have no (real) Faith, until they make thee judge in all disputes between them, and find in their souls no resistance against thy decisions, but accept them with the fullest conviction.
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So people who don't believe hijab is an obligation want to "make people without shyness"? What is that supposed to mean? -\
do you know that Fatima Azahraa may God be pleased with here (the daughter of the prophet peace be upon him) that when she was dying, she ordered his husband "Ali" that when it'll be die, they must cover here by a large clothes and to add the Palm leaves inside the clothes to make sure that her shape and her contours of her body will not be known. look at this great values, she is going to die and yet she still want to be covered from eyes(not like the girls today) who they said that Hijab is not an obligation (why this woman take it as an obligation?).
the verse of Hijab
{ }. ( 31).
so as I see you're Qur'anist or unQur'anist ? ??? .
Shyness is not a positive thing. Modesty is, shyness is not. And modesty is an attitude, it can't be obtained by putting a piece of fabric on your head.
see above .
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That verse says people who don't believe in ahadeeth are unbelievers? http//www.clicksmilies.com/s1106/aktion/action-smiley-061.gif
No, it didn't say that, the verse talks about the men who they don't take what prophet said from provisions and succinctness and God consider these men as a men with no real faith (faith not strong and lead to disbelieve). because rejecting the hadiths Sahih is rejecting what God said ( know that I'm talking about the hadiths Sahih).
You know that "Omar Bno al Khatab" may God be pleased with him that he said that the Ashab Assunah A3lamo bi Kitabi Lah " " in english that the sunnah followers have knowledge of the God's book(Qur'an) so don't lie to yourself that you're following Qur'an which is in fact you aren't.
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ah thank you for the advice but I've pointed out what God said not me .
(65)
But no, by thy Lord, they can have no (real) Faith, until they make thee judge in all disputes between them, and find in their souls no resistance against thy decisions, but accept them with the fullest conviction.
It's good you mentioned this. Quran also tells us HOW he made judgements
4/105Indeed, We have revealed to you, , the Book in truth so you may judge between the people by that which Allah has shown you. And do not be for the deceitful an advocate.
So he judged with the book, not with his own judgements. Hadith shows that he REJECTS Quranic judgements.
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Fistly, you did not write the whole hadith. so maybe you're trying to take what he is good for you.
this is the same hadith, and what I wrote is more detailed than yours . what ? I have no proof ..I have three books in front of me, so cut this thing off the situation.
You see, there is nothing in bukhari to say that this is the same event. So you got two options now
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Bukhari compiled RANDOM bits of information which is very unsafe. You know this because you like to tell us about context, mashaa Allah.
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or Bukhari compiled a complete hadith which shows that the Prophet can be bewitched and so we cant trust his words. In fact, im sure that if most hadith are true, then he must have been bewitched. No sane person talks like that.
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(15) (16)
this is the verses in arabic, what you don't know that here in these verses the infidels asked the prophet to bring to them another book from sky like Qur'an or change it, and the answer from the prophet was that he just said what God revealed to him and that if God's will was not to recite him or make it known, he will not do it. so you chose the wrong verse .because as I see it's out of their context yes hmm ..so the verse talks about something else.
Yeah except you forgot to mention that they also said ?aw baddalhu? (or change it). So why didn?t he change the rulings? If he had the power with hadith to clarify, specify or whatever tricks you sunnis say he did just so u can reject the Quranic law, why didn?t Allah authorise him here?
Because he had no such power. He had to follow only Quran.
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No, it didn't say that, the verse talks about the men who they don't take what prophet said from provisions and succinctness and God consider these men as a men with no real faith (faith not strong and lead to disbelieve). because rejecting the hadiths Sahih is rejecting what God said ( know that I'm talking about the hadiths Sahih).
You know that "Omar Bno al Khatab" may God be pleased with him that he said that the Ashab Assunah A3lamo bi Kitabi Lah " " in english that the sunnah followers have knowledge of the God's book(Qur'an) so don't lie to yourself that you're following Qur'an which is in fact you aren't.
Who decides what is sahih? Is all of sahih al-bukhari sahih?
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It's good you mentioned this. Quran also tells us HOW he made judgements
4/105Indeed, We have revealed to you, , the Book in truth so you may judge between the people by that which Allah has shown you.succinctness And do not be for the deceitful an advocate.
So he judged with the book, not with his own judgements. Hadith shows that he REJECTS Quranic judgements.it's good you mentioned this verse !. let's interpret the verse
first of all , I have to show you the context of the verse the verse his context was about two men came disputing about a shield and they disputed in front of the prophet, and then the prophet has made his judgement .
Second of all , the Judgement that the prophet has made is by his own interpretation of a verse in Qur'an and that's why God said " Indeed, We have revealed to you, , the Book in truth so you may judge between the people by that which Allah has shown you". so by taking a verse and made it as a judgement from his own point of view of the verse because after all the interpretation was by the help from God.
Third of all, this interpretation has dictated in hadiths like any other sayings and deeds of the prophet, so denying it, is not healthy for you .
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You see, there is nothing in bukhari to say that this is the same event. So you got two options now
- Bukhari compiled RANDOM bits of information which is very unsafe. You know this because you like to tell us about context, mashaa Allah.
- or Bukhari compiled a complete hadith which shows that the Prophet can be bewitched and so we cant trust his words. In fact, im sure that if most hadith are true, then he must have been bewitched. No sane person talks like that.
the prophet peace be upon him was bewitched but not like what you think because the influence was "passing" or "", so Bukhari " " gave us the hadith detailed which you can not afford because of your poor source.
as I see the hadiths doesn't talk about untrust the prophet neither a word describe this thing .. the hadiths is simple and clear, and shows that the prophet was bewitched for a shirt time (it could minutes) and you're talking about 25 years of the life of the prophet when he said his sayings.
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the verse talks about the men who they don't take what prophet said from provisions and succinctness
Where? We must be reading a different verse.
do you know that Fatima Azahraa may God be pleased with here (the daughter of the prophet peace be upon him) that when she was dying, she ordered his husband "Ali" that when it'll be die, they must cover here by a large clothes and to add the Palm leaves inside the clothes to make sure that her shape and her contours of her body will not be known. look at this great values
Wow! I am very impressed with the "great values" being presented in this hadith.
the verse of Hijab
The word "hijab" is not even in this verse. But anyway -- if you want to debate hijab, I suggest you do that in one of the already existing threads on the issue. Doesn't make sense to repeat arguments over and over again.
Btw, do you happen to be Egyptian?