did Qur'anists know that the prophet has mentioned them ?

Leyna

I hope you know that declaring takfeer on someone is a serious sin, reformer.

and what's really makes them out of the context of Iman"faith" despite all being a followers of the book of Allah

O you who believe! When you go abroad in the cause of Allah, investigate carefully, and say not to any one who offers you a salutation "Thou art not a believer!"...
494

Thereformer1

Salamun alaikum,
Reformer - you have the audacity to accuse Allah-alone worshippers of disrespecting the Prophet (S) and you are doing the very thing by saying that he (S) was bewitched, or capable of being bewitched

Salamun Alaykom,

well, as I see " " ..I respect my prophet peace be upon him, and as I said that the prophet are not away from which stuff after all they are human as well with some Major difference that the which stuff can influence in human in a severe way (if it was in one's destiny) but in the case of prophet the which stuff can not influence in him but he will feel it plus that he will show them how to abolish it.

257 Yet they say, ?What sort of messenger is this who eats food and goes about in the market-places? Why is not an angel sent down to him to act as a warner together with him??
258 ?Or why has not a treasure been bestowed on him, or why has he not a garden for enjoyment?? The wicked say, ?You are but following a man bewitched!?
259 See what sort of examples they apply to you! They have strayed too far to find a way.

I don't see any point of stating these verses, offtopic

When you are talking about the other prophets
26150 Be mindful of God and heed me.
26151 And do not obey the command of those who trespass the bounds of justice and equity.
26152 Those who spread corruption in the land, and reform not.?
26153 But they replied, "You are but one of the bewitched.
26154 You are just a mortal like us. So bring us a miracle if you are a man of truth."

first of all, what you stated here is the beginning of the message of the prophet, when the infidels and the non-believers called the prophet peace be upon him that he is one of the bewitched, so there is no relation between what I stated in hadith and what you stated from Qur'an (again you chose the wrong verse) .

the verse talks about a specific period when the infidels have spread that this man "the prophet peace be upon him" is just a bewitched one for one thing is weakened his Morals and because the people in this period of time were afraid from which stuff because it was like a curse from a which or a bad signs of following this person that he was bewitched or touching it, because they were thinking that the curse will spread on them too.

so this is the cause of the shadings of this verse, so nothing at all touched the subject.

Saying the he (S) was bewitch-able is a sign that he (S) was a mortal is not the right thing to say - it says that he was capable of being influenced by something which does not exist. Magic does not exist. Period. Just because you don't understand something does not make that thing magic or witchcraft. If there is such a thing as witchcraft - prove it, in a controlled environment. Illusions and trickery are different - like camera tricks. But that is what they are, they are tricks - nothing more. Do you think that the noble rasool (S) would be effected by illusions? I think it is you who should think twice before insulting ANY of the exemplars of humanity.
Peace
d

what ? yes the prophet was Mortal, what do you mean that he wasn't ?

what again ? Yes Magic exists and God told us about his power but at the same time told us that who has been attacked by Magic, he has to be patient because after all he is under the mercy of God and this is a test for him(the bewitched) to see his real faith .

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my brother, the Jewish were magicians and they have used magic to separate the man from his wife. Go read a little bit of Qur'an , there are more than 10 verses talk about Magic.

Thereformer1

I hope you know that declaring takfeer on someone is a serious sin, reformer.
O you who believe! When you go abroad in the cause of Allah, investigate carefully, and say not to any one who offers you a salutation "Thou art not a believer!"...
494

ah thank you for the advice but I've pointed out what God said not me .

(65)

But no, by thy Lord, they can have no (real) Faith, until they make thee judge in all disputes between them, and find in their souls no resistance against thy decisions, but accept them with the fullest conviction.

Leyna

That verse says people who don't believe in ahadeeth are unbelievers? http//www.clicksmilies.com/s1106/aktion/action-smiley-061.gif

Thereformer1

So people who don't believe hijab is an obligation want to "make people without shyness"? What is that supposed to mean? -\

do you know that Fatima Azahraa may God be pleased with here (the daughter of the prophet peace be upon him) that when she was dying, she ordered his husband "Ali" that when it'll be die, they must cover here by a large clothes and to add the Palm leaves inside the clothes to make sure that her shape and her contours of her body will not be known. look at this great values, she is going to die and yet she still want to be covered from eyes(not like the girls today) who they said that Hijab is not an obligation (why this woman take it as an obligation?).

the verse of Hijab

{ }. ( 31).

so as I see you're Qur'anist or unQur'anist ? ??? .

Shyness is not a positive thing. Modesty is, shyness is not. And modesty is an attitude, it can't be obtained by putting a piece of fabric on your head.

see above .

Thereformer1

That verse says people who don't believe in ahadeeth are unbelievers? http//www.clicksmilies.com/s1106/aktion/action-smiley-061.gif

No, it didn't say that, the verse talks about the men who they don't take what prophet said from provisions and succinctness and God consider these men as a men with no real faith (faith not strong and lead to disbelieve). because rejecting the hadiths Sahih is rejecting what God said ( know that I'm talking about the hadiths Sahih).

You know that "Omar Bno al Khatab" may God be pleased with him that he said that the Ashab Assunah A3lamo bi Kitabi Lah " " in english that the sunnah followers have knowledge of the God's book(Qur'an) so don't lie to yourself that you're following Qur'an which is in fact you aren't.

abdalquran

ah thank you for the advice but I've pointed out what God said not me .

(65)

But no, by thy Lord, they can have no (real) Faith, until they make thee judge in all disputes between them, and find in their souls no resistance against thy decisions, but accept them with the fullest conviction.

It's good you mentioned this. Quran also tells us HOW he made judgements

4/105Indeed, We have revealed to you, , the Book in truth so you may judge between the people by that which Allah has shown you. And do not be for the deceitful an advocate.

So he judged with the book, not with his own judgements. Hadith shows that he REJECTS Quranic judgements.

abdalquran

Fistly, you did not write the whole hadith. so maybe you're trying to take what he is good for you.

this is the same hadith, and what I wrote is more detailed than yours . what ? I have no proof ..I have three books in front of me, so cut this thing off the situation.

You see, there is nothing in bukhari to say that this is the same event. So you got two options now

Bukhari compiled RANDOM bits of information which is very unsafe. You know this because you like to tell us about context, mashaa Allah.
or Bukhari compiled a complete hadith which shows that the Prophet can be bewitched and so we cant trust his words. In fact, im sure that if most hadith are true, then he must have been bewitched. No sane person talks like that.

abdalquran

(15) (16)

this is the verses in arabic, what you don't know that here in these verses the infidels asked the prophet to bring to them another book from sky like Qur'an or change it, and the answer from the prophet was that he just said what God revealed to him and that if God's will was not to recite him or make it known, he will not do it. so you chose the wrong verse .because as I see it's out of their context yes hmm ..so the verse talks about something else.

Yeah except you forgot to mention that they also said ?aw baddalhu? (or change it). So why didn?t he change the rulings? If he had the power with hadith to clarify, specify or whatever tricks you sunnis say he did just so u can reject the Quranic law, why didn?t Allah authorise him here?

Because he had no such power. He had to follow only Quran.

abdalquran

No, it didn't say that, the verse talks about the men who they don't take what prophet said from provisions and succinctness and God consider these men as a men with no real faith (faith not strong and lead to disbelieve). because rejecting the hadiths Sahih is rejecting what God said ( know that I'm talking about the hadiths Sahih).

You know that "Omar Bno al Khatab" may God be pleased with him that he said that the Ashab Assunah A3lamo bi Kitabi Lah " " in english that the sunnah followers have knowledge of the God's book(Qur'an) so don't lie to yourself that you're following Qur'an which is in fact you aren't.

Who decides what is sahih? Is all of sahih al-bukhari sahih?

Thereformer1

It's good you mentioned this. Quran also tells us HOW he made judgements
4/105Indeed, We have revealed to you, , the Book in truth so you may judge between the people by that which Allah has shown you.succinctness And do not be for the deceitful an advocate.
So he judged with the book, not with his own judgements. Hadith shows that he REJECTS Quranic judgements.

it's good you mentioned this verse !. let's interpret the verse

first of all , I have to show you the context of the verse the verse his context was about two men came disputing about a shield and they disputed in front of the prophet, and then the prophet has made his judgement .

Second of all , the Judgement that the prophet has made is by his own interpretation of a verse in Qur'an and that's why God said " Indeed, We have revealed to you, , the Book in truth so you may judge between the people by that which Allah has shown you". so by taking a verse and made it as a judgement from his own point of view of the verse because after all the interpretation was by the help from God.

Third of all, this interpretation has dictated in hadiths like any other sayings and deeds of the prophet, so denying it, is not healthy for you .

Thereformer1

You see, there is nothing in bukhari to say that this is the same event. So you got two options now

Bukhari compiled RANDOM bits of information which is very unsafe. You know this because you like to tell us about context, mashaa Allah.
or Bukhari compiled a complete hadith which shows that the Prophet can be bewitched and so we cant trust his words. In fact, im sure that if most hadith are true, then he must have been bewitched. No sane person talks like that.

the prophet peace be upon him was bewitched but not like what you think because the influence was "passing" or "", so Bukhari " " gave us the hadith detailed which you can not afford because of your poor source.

as I see the hadiths doesn't talk about untrust the prophet neither a word describe this thing .. the hadiths is simple and clear, and shows that the prophet was bewitched for a shirt time (it could minutes) and you're talking about 25 years of the life of the prophet when he said his sayings.

Leyna

the verse talks about the men who they don't take what prophet said from provisions and succinctness

Where? We must be reading a different verse.

do you know that Fatima Azahraa may God be pleased with here (the daughter of the prophet peace be upon him) that when she was dying, she ordered his husband "Ali" that when it'll be die, they must cover here by a large clothes and to add the Palm leaves inside the clothes to make sure that her shape and her contours of her body will not be known. look at this great values

Wow! I am very impressed with the "great values" being presented in this hadith.

the verse of Hijab

The word "hijab" is not even in this verse. But anyway -- if you want to debate hijab, I suggest you do that in one of the already existing threads on the issue. Doesn't make sense to repeat arguments over and over again.

Btw, do you happen to be Egyptian?

Thereformer1

Yeah except you forgot to mention that they also said ?aw baddalhu? (or change it). So why didn?t he change the rulings? If he had the power with hadith to clarify, specify or whatever tricks you sunnis say he did just so u can reject the Quranic law, why didn?t Allah authorise him here?
Because he had no such power. He had to follow only Quran.

sorry but I must say that your knowledge is so superficial in Qur'an and also in Arabic language .

read my post I didn't forget to mention " change it" as you claimed >>>>>>>>>> lack of reading my post.

the infidels asked the prophet to bring another one like Qur'an, or change Qur'an itself (they are talking about the same thing which is after all talking about change Qur'an by another one from God himself) .

you didn't understand the difference between change Qur'an and interpret Qur'an .

what "why didn't Allah authorise him here?" sorry this is the most stupid question I've ever heard, because if God authorise him to change Qur'an by another book from sky, why he would send him in the first time ? as we know Qur'an is the last book from God to human kind >>>>>>>>> pick your questions .

ah one more thing the verse shows that the speaker is the prophet not God.

Thereformer1

Where? We must be reading a different verse.

No, sorry we are reading the same verse .

Wow! I am very impressed with the "great values" being presented in this hadith.

I've just gave you an example, I know that you can't be like her even in your dreams .

The word "hijab" is not even in this verse. But anyway -- if you want to debate hijab, I suggest you do that in one of the already existing threads on the issue. Doesn't make sense to repeat arguments over and over again.

what you don't know that the verse is called the verse of Hijab for more than 1400 years ago and you came today to say that Hijab is not mentioned lol that was silly or maybe because of your lack of knowledge.

Btw, do you happen to be Egyptian?

No, never .

Leyna

I've just gave you an example, I know that you can't be like her even in your dreams .

Well, I don't know her and have no wish to be like her. Not sure what makes you think I should feel that way.

what you don't know that the verse is called the verse of Hijab for more than 1400 years ago

Says who? You?

and you came today to say that Hijab is not mentioned lol that was silly or maybe because of your lack of knowledge.

If it is silly, then could you please kindly show me where in the verse the word hijab is being mentioned? Must be my lack of knowledge that I can't discover it.

No, never .

Then where are you from?

You sound just like a number of Egyptians I used to discuss faith with. Same arguments, same condescending style, same avoiding of questions and resorting to ad hominem attacks.

Thereformer1

Well, I don't know her and have no wish to be like her. Not sure what makes you think I should feel that way.

Yes, I know that's why I said you will not be like her even in your dreams , so I'm not thinking , it's a fact .

Says who? You?

it was called the verse of Hijab by the Sahaba.

If it is silly, then could you please kindly show me where in the verse the word hijab is being mentioned? Must be my lack of knowledge that I can't discover it.

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this is the verse the so-called Hijab's verse, Hijab is a term of covering and what stated in the verse is covering . Hijab is an arabic term and it means "cover or veil or whithheld" so what mentioned this verse is Hijab.

Then where are you from?

fftopic

You sound just like a number of Egyptians I used to discuss faith with. Same arguments, same condescending style, same avoiding of questions adn resorting to ad hominem attacks.

well, I don't sound like them, in fact I'm different from them, because they have a problem in controling their feelings. anyways I'm not an Egyptian and sorry to say that I don't like them (no offence if there is any egyptian here).

Leyna

this is the verse the so-called Hijab's verse

I did not ask what the verse is called, I pinted out that the word "hijab" is not to be found in there.

Hijab is a term of covering and what stated in the verse is covering . Hijab is an arabic term and it means "cover or veil or whithheld"

I know what hajaba / means.

so what mentioned this verse is Hijab.

THE WORD "HIJAB" in the QURAN

"Hijab" is the term used by many Muslims women to describe their head cover that may or may not include covering their face except their eyes, and sometimes covering also one eye. The Arabic word "Hijab" can be translated into veil or yashmak. Other meanings for the word "Hijab" include, screen, cover(ing), mantle, curtain, drapes, partition, division, divider.

Can we find the word "Hijab" in the Quran??

The word "Hijab" appeared in the Quran 7 times, five of them as "Hijab" and two times as "Hijaban," these are 746, 3353, 3832, 415, 4251, 1745 & 1917.

None of these "Hijab" words are used in the Quran in reference to what the traditional Muslims call today (Hijab) as a dress code for the Muslim woman.

God knows that generations after Muhammed's death the Muslims will use the word "Hijab" to invent a dress code that He never authorized. God used the word "Hijab" ahead of them just as He used the word "Hadith" ahead of them.

Hijab in the Quran has nothing to do with the Muslim Women dress code.

http//free-minds.org/scarf

well, I don't sound like them, in fact I'm different from them, because they have a problem in controling their feelings.

rotfl
Do they? In which way?

ayyub

Salam

Al-`Irbad ibn Sariyah (may Allah be pleased with him) reported that the Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) said ?Would any of you think, reclining on his couch, that Allah would only describe what is forbidden in the Qur?an? I tell you, by Allah, that I have warned and commanded and prohibited things that are as important as what is in the Qur?an, if not more so.? (Reported by Abu Dawud, Kitab al-Khiraj wal-imarah wal-fay&#039

The most shocking thing? What I find shocking about this hadith is how obviously it contradicts the Qur'an, as has been shown by others on here.

This hadith is always quoted in texts about the supposed "authority of sunnah", I've read it countless times. nope

I actually am under the opposite opinion of this hadith. As a community leader I am sure the Prophet (S) had a lot of things to say and decisions to make dealing with the situations of the time in light of the Quran. However the Quran is what is being protected by Allah, so I would think the most important commands would be in the Quran.

For example The Prophet (S) in on hadith prohibits gold for men, this supposed to be related to the verse in the Quran that says "Don't be extravagant". This hadith may be true, however it may not (as hadith is not protected by Allah on Quran) However extravagance can have different meanings in different societies in different time periods. There for the Quran can not become dated.

I can't understand why the most important commandments would be in something that is not protected by Allah. What the hadith never got collected (as the first two caliphs ordered)?

I am just throwing ideas out here, I am not a scholar in any way. Allah knows best.

Thereformer1

I did not ask what the verse is called, I pinted out that the word "hijab" is not to be found in there.

it is not important to find the exact word, what it matters is that the words there lead to the meanings of cover which is in turn means Hijab .

ok let's see "the predators from the strain of the big cats in the jungle are exsiting to keep balance in nature " . so without looking what they mean by the strain of the big cats, we will know that they mean tigers . I think we need to mention tigers in the sentence to understand that we're talking about tigers. brickwall

I know what hajaba / means.

You know that you take the wrong word ... is "" not "" . the word that you have stated, means something else

THE WORD "HIJAB" in the QURAN

"Hijab" is the term used by many Muslims women to describe their head cover that may or may not include covering their face except their eyes, and sometimes covering also one eye. The Arabic word "Hijab" can be translated into veil or yashmak. Other meanings for the word "Hijab" include, screen, cover(ing), mantle, curtain, drapes, partition, division, divider.

Hijab is covering everything, there is another words about head covering and or hair covering and khimar. they translated them into one world which is wrong . in arabic the covering differ but Hijab as an arabic word means covering the whole body.