did Qur'anists know that the prophet has mentioned them ?
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I think enough has been said in this thread. I just want to say to you "TheReformer1" you are my brother in Islam, just as I consider everyone on this forum, and everyone who believes in the only one worthy of worship, the ONE God, and do there best to submit to his will. We all have our differences, it's too bad we can't see past those and embrace our similarities. Nobody can say who is and who isn't a "Muslim" for only Allah knows what is in our heart. Praise be to Allah and may Allah forever guide us closer to the truth.
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Good morning http//www.clicksmilies.com/s1106/natur/nature-smiley-007.gif
you didn't read Qur'an using Arabic language
Yes, I did.
I've said that for one resaon that you didn't understand what the verses said)
What you mean is that I did not understand the verse the way you understand it. This logic is fallacious, it would mean that any native Arabic speaker who comes to different conclusions than you do, did not read the Qur'an in Arabic.
That doesn't make sense at all.
2946 And do not argue with the people of the Scripture except in the best manner; except for those who are wicked amongst them; and say "We believe in what was revealed to us and in what was revealed to you, and our god and your god is the same; to Him we submit."
Thank you for the reminder. I agree that we should not resort to insults or condescending language when debating faith (or anything, for that matter).
In Reza Aslan's book "No god but God", he says "Muslims, Christians, and Jews who seem so often to mistake religion for faith and scripture for God."
Great book! I've recommended it to many people. http//www.clicksmilies.com/s1106/grinser/grinning-smiley-003.gif
Btw., Reza Aslan says that the next big clash will not be between "Islam and the West", but between the ultra-conservative and progressive forces within Islam itself. I believe he is probably right.
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Ah so you're saying they're equal? That God and Mohammed are equal? Sounds like shirk to me.
They are equal in obedience ( who obeys the prophet obeys God as well), God in the verse has made obedience of the prophet in the beginning of obeying him. so the priority is obeying the prophet and this thing lead to obey God.
{ }
80] He who obeys the Messenger, obeys Allah; but if any turn away, We have not sent thee to watch over their (evil deeds).
shirk ? lol that was funny ...do you know the meanings of the word "shirk"?
Yeah because we're the ones abusing our wives and daughters, chopping people's hands off for theft, chopping innocent babies' bits off and stoning pregnant women to death... just to name a few
Ah I was right about why Qur'anists rejecting the Hadiths, and you made me sure about that, sorry to say that you have a wrong idea about hadith, what you stated here are Liars about hadith. never a pregnant women stoned to death(this is an obvious lie), first of all the woman that you think that they have stoned here to death, they allowed her to give birth, and when she did, the man who accused her (her husband) Recanted his testimony because he remember that he had slept with her and he said to them that the baby is really his baby and after that they released the woman and they didn't stone it . Ah one more thing if she was guilty, they will take the baby and they will stone her to death but for her luck she wasn't. so again >>>>>>> misunderstanding the hadiths. and about chopping people's hands off for theft is also wrong because they didn't say "" with intensity in "" but they said "" with no intensity in "" plus the both of verb are different, so to conclude it means scratch off people's hands .
name any hadith and I'll show you where you've lost.
What a disgusting racist comment.
No, it's not (there is no Racist comment in the sentence), I don't like them for much of reasons, so it's not your business, and I said no offence to any egyptian here /if you're egyptian sorry.
why you didn't say to leyna the same thing when she made a comment about Egyptian, so I thing you want to make me in a position of the bad guy , well let me remind you I don't care about any comment about me (so release your tongue, the only thing that can take what you said is the board) -
reformer1, I recommend the following site
http//www.nizkor.org/features/fallacies/thank you Wakas, I didn't find anything special in it other than a new information about Maine is in poland and squirels in Ohio(white squirels).
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Islam is ruined by violent people not by peacefull people, Islam it's ruined by the hadiths wich are blasphemys and helpful to motivate violence, wich it hasn't his place into Islam...
Hadiths never motivate any kind of voilence, they are provisions and laws and rules, look at the Dark side where voilence is just a term (you'll not understand this).
do you know why I said Qur'anists are going to ruin Islam ? I was talking to an atheist and he used this website to attack my beliefs, I've tried hard to show him the truth, but he was convinced that this website contain in it Muslims, but when he gave me the link, I realize that most of Muslims can be mutants.
and you know what he is still atheist because this website convince him that atheist is the right choice.that's because of Qur'anists.Do you call yourself muslim?, If someone says that all the muslims are terrorists, is he right to generalize?
Islam doesn't promotes racism, shame on you, for your racist comment, you should love your brothers not being racist...I don't care if he generalize or not, I can defend myself and defend the muslim communities and I'll show him the truth.
ah I think you've read the post of nsw1988, well sorry to say that she can't understand any post and she get blind when the post is mine . there is no racist in my post and I don't know how you define racisim? -
I think enough has been said in this thread. I just want to say to you "TheReformer1" you are my brother in Islam, just as I consider everyone on this forum, and everyone who believes in the only one worthy of worship, the ONE God, and do there best to submit to his will. We all have our differences, it's too bad we can't see past those and embrace our similarities. Nobody can say who is and who isn't a "Muslim" for only Allah knows what is in our heart. Praise be to Allah and may Allah forever guide us closer to the truth.
Thank you Ayyub for your nice post and I really agree with you, I'm not looking to defeat anyone here infact I'm here to show the truth because it's already there and men through history did a great efforts to bring to us the information from generation to generation, and people love study these things and prove its validity, so the question is why some bunch of Islam entered make this whole storm which in fact a storm in a tea cup ?
Peace Ayyub and really I consider everyone here as a brother in islam, but I think they don't .
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never a pregnant women stoned to death(this is an obvious lie), first of all the woman that you think that they have stoned here to death, they allowed her to give birth, and when she did, the man who accused her (her husband) Recanted his testimony because he remember that he had slept with her and he said to them that the baby is really his baby and after that they released the woman and they didn't stone it . Ah one more thing if she was guilty, they will take the baby and they will stone her to death but for her luck she wasn't. so again >>>>>>> misunderstanding the hadiths.
The point is that the Qur'an does not mention stoning as a punishment at all. And fact is that people are being stoned to death (and mutilated etc.) in the name of Islam, and that is just wrong.
(why you didn't say to leyna the same thing when she made a comment about Egyptian, so I thing you want to make me in a position of the bad guy
I did not make a negative comment about all Egyptians as you did. I was referring to a small number of them I debated with. The overwhelming majority of Egyptians I talk to in daily life do not behave like that. And I have lots of friends there who share my views on religion, alhamdullilah.
By the way, are you aware of the fact that Egypt also has a large Christian population? Just curious, because you were referring to them as "brothers" in one of your previous posts.
Thank you Ayyub for your nice post and I really agree with you, I'm not looking to defeat anyone here infact I'm here to show the truth
So what you are saying is that you are here in order to prove everyone wrong? Quite an ambitious endeavour, I'd say. wow
Why do you call yourself reformer when it is obvious that you are anything but? A bit contradictory, no? ???
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Good morning http//www.clicksmilies.com/s1106/natur/nature-smiley-007.gif
Good morning ;D
Yes, I did.
What you mean is that I did not understand the verse the way you understand it. This logic is fallacious, it would mean that any native Arabic speaker who comes to different conclusions than you do, did not read the Qur'an in Arabic.
That doesn't make sense at all.that's make sense, and sorry to say that you're wrong, no we can't come to different conclusions because the verse is too clear, and we can't interpret the worlds from our own opinions, because the words in arabic is so clear
verses from Qur'an
1- ( ( which means stay at home.
you know that if the hadith doesn't interpret this verse, all the muslims women will stay at home. so the hadith came to interpret the verse and it says that they can go out in needs.so thank the hadith.
2- ( ( . you have said to me yesterday that there is no word in the Qur'an means Hijab / what about this verse is Hijab itself (the word itself).
there are more than 2 examples to state that Hijab is an obligation.
Great book! I've recommended it to many people. http//www.clicksmilies.com/s1106/grinser/grinning-smiley-003.gif
Btw., Reza Aslan says that the next big clash will not be between "Islam and the West", but between the ultra-conservative and progressive forces within Islam itself. I believe he is probably right.woow, you've just proved that you are not thinking very well as you supposed to pretend, you believe in this Reza who predicted the big clash (which is unknown thing known that he is a human like us) while you disclieve the prophecies of the prophet peace be upon him who said that the big clash will be between Islam and the west.what a really believer are you !!!! shocked . by the way you have to know the difference between prophecy and prediction ?
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you have said to me yesterday that there is no word in the Qur'an means Hijab / what about this verse is Hijab itself (the word itself).
You misunderstood me.
I pointed out that the word hijab can not be found in the particular verse you posted. Then I gave you a text which lists all the verses of the Qur'an in which the word appears.
there are more than 2 examples to state that Hijab is an obligation.
As I said -- if you want to debate hijab, I suggest you go to one of the relevant threads which already exist.
I don't really understand the significance though. Are you a man or a woman? I thought you are a man, so I am wondering why you are so interested in the subject while there are countless other, more important, issues.
woow, you've just proved that you are not thinking very well as you supposed to pretend, you believe in this Reza who predicted the big clash (which is unknown thing known that he is a human like us)
I'm afraid I don't get you here. The fact that I like Reza Aslan's book means that I am "not thinking very well"? -\
Have you even read any of his works?
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The point is that the Qur'an does not mention stoning as a punishment at all. And fact is that people are being stoned to death (and mutilated etc.) in the name of Islam, and that is just wrong.
Do you know why the punishment is stoned to death ? or you're just talking from a point that this thing is not fair. do you know the law of Hamourabi?
I did not make a negative comment about all Egyptians as you did. I was referring to a small number of them I debated with. The overwhelming majority of Egyptians I talk to in daily life do not behave like that. And I have lots of friends there who share my views on religion, alhamdullilah.
well, I speak with Egyptian(girls lol) and I really like them .after all they are trying to behave like the wives in Islam.
about saying that I don't like them known that the population is 70.000.000 is not fair, so I don't like a collection of 1.000.000 men and women for example, the others I don't know.By the way, are you aware of the fact that Egypt also has a large Christian population? Just curious, because you were referring to them as "brothers" in one of your previous posts.
if you really read my post as you claimed, of course you'll read that I've said "brothers in Islam".
So what you are saying is that you are here in order to prove everyone wrong? Quite an ambitious endeavour, I'd say. wow
I'm here to correct some mistakes used by ennemies of Islam from this website.
Why do you call yourself reformer when it is obvious that you are anything but? A bit contradictory, no? ???
No, really I'm the reformer and God knows. sometimes I'm something else , better don't know it.
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You misunderstood me.
I pointed out that the word hijab can not be found in the particular verse you posted. Then I gave you a text which lists all the verses of the Qur'an in which the word appears.I'm not blind, so don't try to make as a wise man of Gotham. you said that there is no verse means Hijab .
As I said -- if you want to debate hijab, I suggest you go to one of the relevant threads which already exist. )
I don't really understand the significance though. Are you a man or a woman? I thought you are a man, so I am wondering why you are so interested in the subject while there are countless other, more important, issues.You mentioned the subject and I tried to show you that you're wrong. nothing more nothing less. I'm not interseted in the subject at all because it's already a clear thing and a debate in it seems useless like someone trying to say that a dog is not a dog.
I'm afraid I don't get you here. The fact that I like Reza Aslan's book means that I am "not thinking very well"? -
Have you even read any of his works?the fact is you said I believe what Reza said about the big clash which is as he pretend will be between Muslims theirselves.
the fact is you believe what this man said and you disblieve what the prophet said . -
Do you know why the punishment is stoned to death ?
Again -- the point is that there is no such thing as stoning in the Qur'an.
well, I speak with Egyptian(girls lol) and I really like them ) .after all they are trying to behave like the wives in Islam.
They are "trying to behave like the wives in Islam"? What is that supposed to mean? ???
if you really read my post as you claimed, of course you'll read that I've said "brothers in Islam".
Exactly. You were referring to Egyptians as "brothers in Islam", thus implying that all Egyptians are Muslims. I just pointed out that this is not the case.
No, really I'm the reformer and God knows. sometimes I'm something else ) , better don't know it.
Are you aware what "reformer" means? From what I have read from you so far, you are the opposite of a reformer.
No offense, just an observation.you said that there is no verse means Hijab .
No. This is what I posted
The word "hijab" is not even in this verse.
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Can we find the word "Hijab" in the Quran??
The word "Hijab" appeared in the Quran 7 times, five of them as "Hijab" and two times as "Hijaban," these are 746, 3353, 3832, 415, 4251, 1745 & 1917.
I'm not interseted in the subject at all because it's already a clear thing and a debate in it seems useless like someone trying to say that a dog is not a dog.
If you are not interested in this subject, why did you repeatedly bring it up? ???
It is clear to you, but there are many others who have a different opinion.
the fact is you believe what this man said and you disblieve what the prophet said .
I am not sure what these two things have to do with each other. But how do you come to the conclusion that I disbelieve what the prophet said? I have not written such a thing anywhere.
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Again -- the point is that there is no such thing as stoning in the Qur'an.
the point is that God gave human mind to make provisions as well.
They are "trying to behave like the wives in Islam"? What is that supposed to mean? ???
I supposed that you haven't read before the book "Women in Islam" they are the wives of the prophet peace be upon him and his daughters and the daughter of Abo Baker Assadik .
Exactly. You were referring to Egyptians as "brothers in Islam", thus implying that all Egyptians are Muslims. I just pointed out that this is not the case.
No, this is not implying that all Egyptians are Muslims, brothers in Islam , the Muslims from them . you just pointed out what you have understood .
Are you aware what "reformer" means? From what I have read from you so far, you are the opposite of a reformer.
No offense, just an observation.I think I'll not choose a nickname if I don't know its meanings, so what's your point?
from what you have read from me so far, doesn't mean that you know me . and by the way reform is my field of studies.No. This is what I posted
The word "hijab" is not even in this verse.
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Can we find the word "Hijab" in the Quran??
The word "Hijab" appeared in the Quran 7 times, five of them as "Hijab" and two times as "Hijaban," these are 746, 3353, 3832, 415, 4251, 1745 & 1917.ok, that's fine.
If you are not interested in this subject, why did you repeatedly bring it up? ???
It is clear to you, but there are many others who have a different opinion.I repeatedly bring it up because you repeatedly bring it up and you're the first who mentioned the subject not me.
I am not sure what these two things have to do with each other. But how do you come to the conclusion that I disbelieve what the prophet said? I have not written such a thing anywhere.
owell, as I read from your posts that you disbelieve the hadiths which is the prophet's word (hadiths Sahih), in the other hand you read a book and Yet you're believing what the owner of the book said.
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I supposed that you haven't read before the book "Women in Islam" they are the wives of the prophet peace be upon him and his daughters and the daughter of Abo Baker Assadik .
There are many books called "Women in Islam", so I am not sure which one you are referring to here.
But maybe you can explain in your own words what you were trying to say with your previous statement?
I repeatedly bring it up because you repeatedly bring it up and you're the first who mentioned the subject not me.
Sorry, that is not true.
You were the first one to bring it up -- in post #22 on page 2 of this thread
you know what that these people have seen some issues in hadith very hard to practice it(like salate) they want to do it like christian, and as ( Hijab) they want to make people without shyness and they want to immitate the ennemies of Allah.
well, as I read from your posts that you disbelieve the hadiths which is the prophet's word (hadiths Sahih), in the other hand you read a book and Yet you're believing what the owner of the book said.
I still don't see what one thing has to do with the other. Reza Aslan (the author, not the owner of the book) makes some very good points that I happen to agree with. What that has to do with the prophet, I don't understand.
Of course I believe in what the prophet said. That doesn't mean I believe in ahadeeth. They are two different things.
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Salaam,
Thereformer1, I previously stated that I sincerely wished that peace be upon you, and that I hope the 'Sunnis' and the 'Quranists' can live in peace regardless what they believe in. However, I must say, that I take offense when you say the people in this website, which will by default include me, are the enemies of Islam. Tell me, do you have the RIGHT to judge other Muslims? No one, I mean NO ONE, has the right to judge what it is within our hearts except God. Frankly, your debate screams arrogance. Why? Because you think what you believe is the right one. You believe because you speak Arabic, everyone else must be inferior to you.
As I said previously we can be wrong, you can be right. But there is also a possibility (as high as the former one), that you are wrong, and we are right. Do not be arrogant and dismiss others' belief just because they are not born Arabic. It's not the language skills that matter, it is one's ability to attain knowledge. So please, stop acting like you are holier than us.
One more thing, I said it to other member as well, and I do hope think about it the absolute truth is GOD, and what we humans do are based on belief and speculations. We are humans and we are bound to commit mistakes. So for the love of God, do not act like you are THE absolute. Do not judge our level of 'muslim'-ness , because that is up to God. We are not wrong, but you THINK we are wrong. And we are not right, we THINK we are right. Only God knows.
Please bear in mind 4911.
Salaam.
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There are many books called "Women in Islam", so I am not sure which one you are referring to here.
I think these books are sharing the same thing.
But maybe you can explain in your own words what you were trying to say with your previous statement?
I was trying to say that, never mind you'll take it as a rude comment or you'll understand it in bad way .
Sorry, that is not true.
You were the first one to bring it up -- in post #22 on page 2 of this thread
you know what that these people have seen some issues in hadith very hard to practice it(like salate) they want to do it like christian, and as ( Hijab) they want to make people without shyness and they want to immitate the ennemies of Allah.Yes, you're right I'vementioned it but you bring it up and you talked about it, why you didn't choose to talk about Salate. You chose to talk about Hijab, so you're the one who brings it up not me.
a question Do you pray five times a day?I still don't see what one thing has to do with the other. Reza Aslan (the author, not the owner of the book) makes some very good points that I happen to agree with. What that has to do with the prophet, I don't understand.
Of course I believe in what the prophet said. That doesn't mean I believe in ahadeeth. They are two different things.well, let me remind you that what the prophet said called ahadith Arassoul Salla laho 3alayhe wa salam. and by the way there is a hadith where the prophet stated that the Muslims world will be divised into groups, so what this Reza as he or she claimed it's not a new thing for me .
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I think these books are sharing the same thing.
Hm. Well, I've read various books about this subject and they were quite different.
I was trying to say that, never mind you'll take it as a rude comment or you'll understand it in bad way .
LOL. You have had no problem being rude to people before, so now suddenly you are concerned about offending me? rotfl peace
Anyway ... it's not that important, I was just curious because it was a strange statement. Plus, I haven't really seen that much Islamic behaviour in Egypt, so I was wondering what you meant by it. But if you don't want to explain, that's fine.
so what this Reza as he or she claimed it's not a new thing for me .
You don't know the guy and haven't read any of his books, but despite of this you know what he is saying? o
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Salaam,
Thereformer1, I previously stated that I sincerely wished that peace be upon you, and that I hope the 'Sunnis' and the 'Quranists' can live in peace regardless what they believe in. However, I must say, that I take offense when you say the people in this website, which will by default include me, are the enemies of Islam. Tell me, do you have the RIGHT to judge other Muslims? No one, I mean NO ONE, has the right to judge what it is within our hearts except God. Frankly, your debate screams arrogance. Why? Because you think what you believe is the right one. You believe because you speak Arabic, everyone else must be inferior to you.
As I said previously we can be wrong, you can be right. But there is also a possibility (as high as the former one), that you are wrong, and we are right. Do not be arrogant and dismiss others' belief just because they are not born Arabic. It's not the language skills that matter, it is one's ability to attain knowledge. So please, stop acting like you are holier than us.
One more thing, I said it to other member as well, and I do hope think about it the absolute truth is GOD, and what we humans do are based on belief and speculations. We are humans and we are bound to commit mistakes. So for the love of God, do not act like you are THE absolute. Do not judge our level of 'muslim'-ness , because that is up to God. We are not wrong, but you THINK we are wrong. And we are not right, we THINK we are right. Only God knows.
Please bear in mind 4911.
Salaam.Wa Alaykom Asalam,
Look I'm not trying to defeat you or as you said to be arrogant, but the truth is the lack of your knowledge(guys here, including you) is abvious whether it is about ahadith or about Qur'an, and we all agree that only God knows, but when he gave you a mind to think and a heart to feel the passion of thinking, you must do something or you'll be trapped in only God knows your whole life.
I want just trying to show people here that rejecting hadith (hadith Sahih and hadith Hassan) is not a good thing and it's not necessary what I think because after all is what the prophet said and what his friends said about "Quranists" .
as Omar bno Al khatab said " the sunnah followers know better the book of Allah", let alone the saying of the prophet that we will see these kind of people (I think I've seen them) so it was for them a state of future, but for me is a state of present.
we all agree that the absolute truth is God, is that mean that the prophet is not one of the absolute truth from God?
( (1) (2) (3) ... (52) (53) (54) ((55
I don't know maybe I'm wrong or maybe not, but surely the percentage of being wrong is 20% and of being not 80%.
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Hm. Well, I've read various books about this subject and they were quite different.
different in what exactely ?
LOL. You have had no problem being rude to people before, so now suddenly you are concerned about offending me? rotfl peace
well, if you considered being frank a rude thing, that shows that I've made the right choice for not telling you my opinion.
Anyway ... it's not that important, I was just curious because it was a strange statement. Plus, I haven't really seen that much Islamic behaviour in Egypt, so I was wondering what you meant by it. But if you don't want to explain, that's fine.
Curiosity kills voodoo
You don't know the guy and haven't read any of his books, but despite of this you know what he is saying? o
You said that he was mentionning that the big clash is between Muslims theirselves not between Muslims and the west, so I've said that what this guy said is not new for me .
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Salaam,
Thereformer1, I previously stated that I sincerely wished that peace be upon you, and that I hope the 'Sunnis' and the 'Quranists' can live in peace regardless what they believe in. However, I must say, that I take offense when you say the people in this website, which will by default include me, are the enemies of Islam. Tell me, do you have the RIGHT to judge other Muslims? No one, I mean NO ONE, has the right to judge what it is within our hearts except God. Frankly, your debate screams arrogance. Why? Because you think what you believe is the right one. You believe because you speak Arabic, everyone else must be inferior to you.
As I said previously we can be wrong, you can be right. But there is also a possibility (as high as the former one), that you are wrong, and we are right. Do not be arrogant and dismiss others' belief just because they are not born Arabic. It's not the language skills that matter, it is one's ability to attain knowledge. So please, stop acting like you are holier than us.
Well said. http//img229.imageshack.us/img229/5072/smilingplanet.gif