did Qur'anists know that the prophet has mentioned them ?
-
Again -- the point is that there is no such thing as stoning in the Qur'an.
the point is that God gave human mind to make provisions as well.
They are "trying to behave like the wives in Islam"? What is that supposed to mean? ???
I supposed that you haven't read before the book "Women in Islam" they are the wives of the prophet peace be upon him and his daughters and the daughter of Abo Baker Assadik .
Exactly. You were referring to Egyptians as "brothers in Islam", thus implying that all Egyptians are Muslims. I just pointed out that this is not the case.
No, this is not implying that all Egyptians are Muslims, brothers in Islam , the Muslims from them . you just pointed out what you have understood .
Are you aware what "reformer" means? From what I have read from you so far, you are the opposite of a reformer.
No offense, just an observation.I think I'll not choose a nickname if I don't know its meanings, so what's your point?
from what you have read from me so far, doesn't mean that you know me . and by the way reform is my field of studies.No. This is what I posted
The word "hijab" is not even in this verse.
...
Can we find the word "Hijab" in the Quran??
The word "Hijab" appeared in the Quran 7 times, five of them as "Hijab" and two times as "Hijaban," these are 746, 3353, 3832, 415, 4251, 1745 & 1917.ok, that's fine.
If you are not interested in this subject, why did you repeatedly bring it up? ???
It is clear to you, but there are many others who have a different opinion.I repeatedly bring it up because you repeatedly bring it up and you're the first who mentioned the subject not me.
I am not sure what these two things have to do with each other. But how do you come to the conclusion that I disbelieve what the prophet said? I have not written such a thing anywhere.
owell, as I read from your posts that you disbelieve the hadiths which is the prophet's word (hadiths Sahih), in the other hand you read a book and Yet you're believing what the owner of the book said.
-
I supposed that you haven't read before the book "Women in Islam" they are the wives of the prophet peace be upon him and his daughters and the daughter of Abo Baker Assadik .
There are many books called "Women in Islam", so I am not sure which one you are referring to here.
But maybe you can explain in your own words what you were trying to say with your previous statement?
I repeatedly bring it up because you repeatedly bring it up and you're the first who mentioned the subject not me.
Sorry, that is not true.
You were the first one to bring it up -- in post #22 on page 2 of this thread
you know what that these people have seen some issues in hadith very hard to practice it(like salate) they want to do it like christian, and as ( Hijab) they want to make people without shyness and they want to immitate the ennemies of Allah.
well, as I read from your posts that you disbelieve the hadiths which is the prophet's word (hadiths Sahih), in the other hand you read a book and Yet you're believing what the owner of the book said.
I still don't see what one thing has to do with the other. Reza Aslan (the author, not the owner of the book) makes some very good points that I happen to agree with. What that has to do with the prophet, I don't understand.
Of course I believe in what the prophet said. That doesn't mean I believe in ahadeeth. They are two different things.
-
Salaam,
Thereformer1, I previously stated that I sincerely wished that peace be upon you, and that I hope the 'Sunnis' and the 'Quranists' can live in peace regardless what they believe in. However, I must say, that I take offense when you say the people in this website, which will by default include me, are the enemies of Islam. Tell me, do you have the RIGHT to judge other Muslims? No one, I mean NO ONE, has the right to judge what it is within our hearts except God. Frankly, your debate screams arrogance. Why? Because you think what you believe is the right one. You believe because you speak Arabic, everyone else must be inferior to you.
As I said previously we can be wrong, you can be right. But there is also a possibility (as high as the former one), that you are wrong, and we are right. Do not be arrogant and dismiss others' belief just because they are not born Arabic. It's not the language skills that matter, it is one's ability to attain knowledge. So please, stop acting like you are holier than us.
One more thing, I said it to other member as well, and I do hope think about it the absolute truth is GOD, and what we humans do are based on belief and speculations. We are humans and we are bound to commit mistakes. So for the love of God, do not act like you are THE absolute. Do not judge our level of 'muslim'-ness , because that is up to God. We are not wrong, but you THINK we are wrong. And we are not right, we THINK we are right. Only God knows.
Please bear in mind 4911.
Salaam.
-
There are many books called "Women in Islam", so I am not sure which one you are referring to here.
I think these books are sharing the same thing.
But maybe you can explain in your own words what you were trying to say with your previous statement?
I was trying to say that, never mind you'll take it as a rude comment or you'll understand it in bad way .
Sorry, that is not true.
You were the first one to bring it up -- in post #22 on page 2 of this thread
you know what that these people have seen some issues in hadith very hard to practice it(like salate) they want to do it like christian, and as ( Hijab) they want to make people without shyness and they want to immitate the ennemies of Allah.Yes, you're right I'vementioned it but you bring it up and you talked about it, why you didn't choose to talk about Salate. You chose to talk about Hijab, so you're the one who brings it up not me.
a question Do you pray five times a day?I still don't see what one thing has to do with the other. Reza Aslan (the author, not the owner of the book) makes some very good points that I happen to agree with. What that has to do with the prophet, I don't understand.
Of course I believe in what the prophet said. That doesn't mean I believe in ahadeeth. They are two different things.well, let me remind you that what the prophet said called ahadith Arassoul Salla laho 3alayhe wa salam. and by the way there is a hadith where the prophet stated that the Muslims world will be divised into groups, so what this Reza as he or she claimed it's not a new thing for me .
-
I think these books are sharing the same thing.
Hm. Well, I've read various books about this subject and they were quite different.
I was trying to say that, never mind you'll take it as a rude comment or you'll understand it in bad way .
LOL. You have had no problem being rude to people before, so now suddenly you are concerned about offending me? rotfl peace
Anyway ... it's not that important, I was just curious because it was a strange statement. Plus, I haven't really seen that much Islamic behaviour in Egypt, so I was wondering what you meant by it. But if you don't want to explain, that's fine.
so what this Reza as he or she claimed it's not a new thing for me .
You don't know the guy and haven't read any of his books, but despite of this you know what he is saying? o
-
Salaam,
Thereformer1, I previously stated that I sincerely wished that peace be upon you, and that I hope the 'Sunnis' and the 'Quranists' can live in peace regardless what they believe in. However, I must say, that I take offense when you say the people in this website, which will by default include me, are the enemies of Islam. Tell me, do you have the RIGHT to judge other Muslims? No one, I mean NO ONE, has the right to judge what it is within our hearts except God. Frankly, your debate screams arrogance. Why? Because you think what you believe is the right one. You believe because you speak Arabic, everyone else must be inferior to you.
As I said previously we can be wrong, you can be right. But there is also a possibility (as high as the former one), that you are wrong, and we are right. Do not be arrogant and dismiss others' belief just because they are not born Arabic. It's not the language skills that matter, it is one's ability to attain knowledge. So please, stop acting like you are holier than us.
One more thing, I said it to other member as well, and I do hope think about it the absolute truth is GOD, and what we humans do are based on belief and speculations. We are humans and we are bound to commit mistakes. So for the love of God, do not act like you are THE absolute. Do not judge our level of 'muslim'-ness , because that is up to God. We are not wrong, but you THINK we are wrong. And we are not right, we THINK we are right. Only God knows.
Please bear in mind 4911.
Salaam.Wa Alaykom Asalam,
Look I'm not trying to defeat you or as you said to be arrogant, but the truth is the lack of your knowledge(guys here, including you) is abvious whether it is about ahadith or about Qur'an, and we all agree that only God knows, but when he gave you a mind to think and a heart to feel the passion of thinking, you must do something or you'll be trapped in only God knows your whole life.
I want just trying to show people here that rejecting hadith (hadith Sahih and hadith Hassan) is not a good thing and it's not necessary what I think because after all is what the prophet said and what his friends said about "Quranists" .
as Omar bno Al khatab said " the sunnah followers know better the book of Allah", let alone the saying of the prophet that we will see these kind of people (I think I've seen them) so it was for them a state of future, but for me is a state of present.
we all agree that the absolute truth is God, is that mean that the prophet is not one of the absolute truth from God?
( (1) (2) (3) ... (52) (53) (54) ((55
I don't know maybe I'm wrong or maybe not, but surely the percentage of being wrong is 20% and of being not 80%.
-
Hm. Well, I've read various books about this subject and they were quite different.
different in what exactely ?
LOL. You have had no problem being rude to people before, so now suddenly you are concerned about offending me? rotfl peace
well, if you considered being frank a rude thing, that shows that I've made the right choice for not telling you my opinion.
Anyway ... it's not that important, I was just curious because it was a strange statement. Plus, I haven't really seen that much Islamic behaviour in Egypt, so I was wondering what you meant by it. But if you don't want to explain, that's fine.
Curiosity kills voodoo
You don't know the guy and haven't read any of his books, but despite of this you know what he is saying? o
You said that he was mentionning that the big clash is between Muslims theirselves not between Muslims and the west, so I've said that what this guy said is not new for me .
-
Salaam,
Thereformer1, I previously stated that I sincerely wished that peace be upon you, and that I hope the 'Sunnis' and the 'Quranists' can live in peace regardless what they believe in. However, I must say, that I take offense when you say the people in this website, which will by default include me, are the enemies of Islam. Tell me, do you have the RIGHT to judge other Muslims? No one, I mean NO ONE, has the right to judge what it is within our hearts except God. Frankly, your debate screams arrogance. Why? Because you think what you believe is the right one. You believe because you speak Arabic, everyone else must be inferior to you.
As I said previously we can be wrong, you can be right. But there is also a possibility (as high as the former one), that you are wrong, and we are right. Do not be arrogant and dismiss others' belief just because they are not born Arabic. It's not the language skills that matter, it is one's ability to attain knowledge. So please, stop acting like you are holier than us.
Well said. http//img229.imageshack.us/img229/5072/smilingplanet.gif
-
-
Well said. http//img229.imageshack.us/img229/5072/smilingplanet.gif
ah Leyna, I see that you didn't answer my question do you pray five times a day?
-
Salaam.
The truth is it's not that we lack knowledge, it is more like you THINK we lack knowledge because our parameters of making judgment are different to yours. So that will mean, by the way, any evidence that you present to us will be rendered incredible because we do not follow hadiths. If you want to make arguments, please use Qur'anic verses to support them, as we all have been doing. But then again, you won't take the verses as sufficient, because you need to use the words of men to explain God's words because He isn't clear enough.
Look, what I'm saying is, everything that you have said regarding the truth, is based on what you think. And has it occurred to you that you may not be the right one? Leave God to decide and leave us strive for the cause of God. And you won't see us stoning to death, declaring wars here and there; you'll see that we will strive peacefully.
The prophetS (note the plural form) were sent by the absolute Truth, the God. They were warners and deliverers of God's message. I respect them equally and I do not elevate one's status over another. They all bore the same burden and they'll all be rewarded. However, I believe that the muhaditheen or the scholars are not the absolute. For my spiritual guidance, I do not make binding what is not from The Absolute. The Qur'an was sent down by God, the Absolute, that is what I follow. The hadiths were written by men and judged by men, who are not absolute, and by that, I do not take their words and opinions as religiously binding.
I don't know maybe I'm wrong or maybe not, but surely the percentage of being wrong is 20% and of being not 80%.
Still, the possibility exists, as nothing is absolute. We're all gambling our fate with what we believe in. Hey I can be wrong and you can be right. I don't see why you'll have problems with that. At least when I burn in hell, you won't join me there .
Salaam.
-
I don't know maybe I'm wrong or maybe not, but surely the percentage of being wrong is 20% and of being not 80%.
Peace,
Umm that's quite a bold statement. What makes you think you're more likely to be right than wrong?
-
Do you think and believe that all hadith mentioned as Sahih by learned Bukhari ar Sahih and Hassan or some of them you reject as false and untrue?
well, that's depend on how you see the Sahih and how you see the Daef , there are a rules of seeing the daef but there are rules of seeing the Sahih, the conditions of seeing the Sahih are five and the conditions of seing Al Hadith Al Hassan which two things Al-Hadith Al Hassal li Dateh and Al Hadith Al-Hassan li Ghayreh . the rules of seing the hadith Adaef which is differ from Madhab to Madhab and they divise it into 6 parts of using it. without knowing these basics about hadith, you should not reject anything of it.
-
Salaam.
The truth is it's not that we lack knowledge, it is more like you THINK we lack knowledge because our parameters of making judgment are different to yours. So that will mean, by the way, any evidence that you present to us will be rendered incredible because we do not follow hadiths. If you want to make arguments, please use Qur'anic verses to support them, as we all have been doing. But then again, you won't take the verses as sufficient, because you need to use the words of men to explain God's words because He isn't clear enough.
Look, what I'm saying is, everything that you have said regarding the truth, is based on what you think. And has it occurred to you that you may not be the right one? Leave God to decide and leave us strive for the cause of God. And you won't see us stoning to death, declaring wars here and there; you'll see that we will strive peacefully.
The prophetS (note the plural form) were sent by the absolute Truth, the God. They were warners and deliverers of God's message. I respect them equally and I do not elevate one's status over another. They all bore the same burden and they'll all be rewarded. However, I believe that the muhaditheen or the scholars are not the absolute. For my spiritual guidance, I do not make binding what is not from The Absolute. The Qur'an was sent down by God, the Absolute, that is what I follow. The hadiths were written by men and judged by men, who are not absolute, and by that, I do not take their words and opinions as religiously binding.Wa Alaykom-Asallam,
you see that's why I said lack of knowledge . because as I said every post of mine was not ahadith, they were all jusification from Qur'an (the only hadith is the hadith in the thread).
and you know why I said lack of knowledge because no one from you can choose a good verse to justify .
why I said lack of knowledge none of you can interpret the verse in a good way .
why I said lack of knoweldge because you're in a position of weakness where I know things better than you .
why I said lack of knowledge because an relative thing can turn to absolute .
why I said lack of knowledge your parameters are not so strong as you pretending they are ....etc.
Still, the possibility exists, as nothing is absolute. We're all gambling our fate with what we believe in. Hey I can be wrong and you can be right. I don't see why you'll have problems with that. At least when I burn in hell, you won't join me there .
Salaam.I don't want from you to born in Hell, A Muslim should warn his brother in Islam .
-
Peace,
Umm that's quite a bold statement. What makes you think you're more likely to be right than wrong?Salamo Alaykom,
well, for one reason " the community of Sunnah people know better God's book " . what Quranists can't stand and afford.
-
Salaam,
I'm sorry to say, you scream out arrogance right now! As I said, YOU THINK we lack knowledge. It's all in YOUR head. But what YOU think is not necessarily the Truth. We might lack knowledge about God, but who are you to make that judgment? The absolute is God, the rest is relative. Please Brother, show humility for once and bear in mind 1737.
Personally to me, people of knowledge are the ones who do not think they know better. People of knowledge are the ones who think there are more things to learn and reflect, the ones who think their knowledge is less than sufficient. I do not think I have more knowledge than you do; I only do what my heart tells me to do, through continuous study and constructively discussing with open minded people.
I'm off to bed, but I have questions (off-topic) that I'd like you to answer. But please answer it after thinking for some time
- What is Islam to you?
- What do you think we need to attain paradise? And please do not answer generally, like... following God's commandments and the prophet's Sunnah. Do answer what you do, or have tried, or will commit to do, in order to perfect your deen.
- When you say you want to warn other brothers/sisters in Islam, which is based on your beliefs, what is your reason? Is it that you genuinely care about our fate? Is it because you really want to do it for God? Is it because you really want to establish Peace, which is what Islam is all about?
Or maybe... is it because
You want people to think same way like you do? Is it because you cannot stand seeing people being different from you? Is it because you feel that your identity as a 'Muslim' is threatened? Is it because that you fear that other muslims do not represent the Arabs community hence you will lose your perceived identity?
Salaam.
-
Salamo Alaykom,
well, for one reason " the community of Sunnah people know better God's book " . what Quranists can't stand and afford.
Just can't resist to respond. Again, you're using the word of man, and not the word of God. Using your reason therefore, other prophets who passed away before Muhammad (Isa, Musa, Ibrahim, Ishma'il, Yaqub, etc) did not know better since they were not ahlussunnah wal jama'ah, and they were the people of sunatullah instead. Therefore, what will happen to them? Clearly they were not using the kitabs that the muhaditheen compiled for their spiritual guidance.
Salaam.
-
Salaam,
Wa Alaykom Asallam
I'm sorry to say, you scream out arrogance right now! As I said, YOU THINK we lack knowledge. It's all in YOUR head. But what YOU think is not necessarily the Truth. We might lack knowledge about God, but who are you to make that judgment? The absolute is God, the rest is relative. Please Brother, show humility for once and bear in mind 1737.
there is no reason for stating a verse, I can state hundred and they all will refer to you, so let's cut this thing off the subject.
Personally to me, people of knowledge are the ones who do not think they know better. People of knowledge are the ones who think there are more things to learn and reflect, the ones who think their knowledge is less than sufficient. I do not think I have more knowledge than you do; I only do what my heart tells me to do, through continuous study and constructively discussing with open minded people.
God says "but over all endued with knowledge is One, the All-Knowing."
I'm off to bed, but I have questions (off-topic) that I'd like you to answer. But please answer it after thinking for some time
ok, Have a sweet dreams.
- What is Islam to you?
this is a question can be answered by hundred answer at least....!!!
anyways I'm stating one Islam is the religion that God has chosen for his prophets and their followers, and it's the submission to the Almighty one the God "Allah".
- What do you think we need to attain paradise? And please do not answer generally, like... following God's commandments and the prophet's Sunnah. Do answer what you do, or have tried, or will commit to do, in order to perfect your deen.
I don't think that we need attain paradise because after all it depends in our behaviors over the others people, God can forgive your behaviors over him but he can't forgive your behaviors over his creatures.
you know that I've met people that they said that they need to attain hell, why do you think that you're different from them?
- When you say you want to warn other brothers/sisters in Islam, which is based on your beliefs, what is your reason? Is it that you genuinely care about our fate? Is it because you really want to do it for God? Is it because you really want to establish Peace, which is what Islam is all about?
In fact none of the questions describe why I warn other brothers/sisters in Islam .
Or maybe... is it because
You want people to think same way like you do? Is it because you cannot stand seeing people being different from you? Is it because you feel that your identity as a 'Muslim' is threatened? Is it because that you fear that other muslims do not represent the Arabs community hence you will lose your perceived identity?
Salaam.if you're talking about warning people in this website alone, I must say that none of these answers describe why I want to warn my brothers/sisters in Islam. I've joined this website because I've read some topic in it where some members here take some ahadihs as jokes ( this is my reason of joining this website) my aim of warning them is proving that they are wrong ( I'm not preaching anyone)
ah by the way you talk like we have different beliefs, let me remind you that we have the same beliefs.
-
Just can't resist to respond. Again, you're using the word of man, and not the word of God. Using your reason therefore, other prophets who passed away before Muhammad (Isa, Musa, Ibrahim, Ishma'il, Yaqub, etc) did not know better since they were not ahlussunnah wal jama'ah, and they were the people of sunatullah instead. Therefore, what will happen to them? Clearly they were not using the kitabs that the muhaditheen compiled for their spiritual guidance.
Salaam.we don't talk about past, we are today and today there is sunnah which is two thing sunnah of the prophet and sunnah of Allah, they are the same thing and they go in the same straight line, so using one of them can make this straight line crooked
-
Salamo Alaykom,
well, for one reason " the community of Sunnah people know better God's book " . what Quranists can't stand and afford.
rotfl Please stop! You're just too funny!
Anyways I have better things to do than to debate with an arrogant person like you so.. salam peace