Is God a Man?
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god is not a Man. god not limited to Dimensions.
If your God is not limited to dimensions, how did he speak to Moses? How did he do anything? Your concept of God is more of an idol representation of an abstract concept.
The God in the Quran is a real entity that has an ego and a a body that doesn't need food and water(Samad).
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The anthropomorphic nature of Allah brings the Jesus/God debate to an absolute end.
Jesus was a man who didn't call himself Allah and he ate food with his mother. Allah is a proper noun of an immortal man who does not need to be fed. This reasoning is found in the Quran.
Combining, we could speculate that Allah, Adam and Jesus looked like each other. Two eat and one doesn't. Two have the holy spirit and one doesn't. Nice puzzle.
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You can speculate that the Sun does not really exist and it is a figment of one's imagination. Because that is exactly what it is, pure speculation!
Just like your speculation, that God is a man.
It's back to the Greek mythology for you buddy.
Now pay homage to Zeus.
Peace
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You can speculate that the Sun does not really exist and it is a figment of one's imagination. Because that is exactly what it is, pure speculation!
Just like your speculation, that God is a man.
It's back to the Greek mythology for you buddy.
Now pay homage to Zeus.
Peace
You are going nowhere...I am just trying to get to the more accurate speculation according to the Quranic text.
Zeus be blessed.
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I'll save you the trouble.
Read Surah 112.
It explains it in real simple and easy to understand terms.
Now pay homage to Hades.
Peace
Surah 112 just says that God was all alone in the beginning and no one helped him to create the heavens and the earth. It also states that God is 'samad' or the one who doesn't need sustenance from someone. But looking at the other verses, you will see that God is like a man, not exactly, but have a similar shape. Surah 112 does little to resolve the issue.
And Hades can kiss my......whatever. laugh
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(1121)
Qul huwa Allahu ahadun
1121 Say He is Allah, the One and Only;(1122)
Allahu alssamadu
1122 Allah, the Eternal, Absolute;(1123)
Lam yalid walam yooladu
1123 He begetteth not, nor is He begotten;(1124)
Walam yakun lahu kufuwan ahadun
1124And there is none like unto Him.Pay close attention to the last verse. I know it can be difficult, but trust me, it really is not that difficult.
How dare you blaspheme against your Greek god!
Now pay homage to Apollo.
Peace
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God is a being conceived as the perfect, omnipotent, omniscient originator and ruler of the universe, the principal object of faith and worship in monotheistic islam religions.
God is Lord, the alpha and omega, has always been and will be everlasting. Since God is our creator, creator of man, woman and all earthly creatures great and small, therefore void of being descriptive into being either man or woman.
Now pay homage to Thor
peace to allsun peace -
(1121)
Qul huwa Allahu ahadun
1121 Say He is Allah, the One and Only;(1122)
Allahu alssamadu
1122 Allah, the Eternal, Absolute;(1123)
Lam yalid walam yooladu
1123 He begetteth not, nor is He begotten;(1124)
Walam yakun lahu kufuwan ahadun
1124And there is none like unto Him.Sure enough, the best description comes from Allah.
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Dear Zulu12, nomis and Ayyub,
Surah 112 states there is none comparable to him. Thats it. It says nothing about whether God is anthropomorphic or not. The rest of the Quranic verses shows you that God is a man but with superpowers. I told you your concept of God doesn't make sense. An all-pervasive God can't be interacted with because the moment you interact with him he must get out of his absoluteness first and limit himself to listen to you.
The Quran attacks the idols because they either represent people that are long dead while Allah is alive or represent forces of nature that have no will or consciousness.
Funny, Abraham smashed the idols because they can't speak. Does your absolute zero point God talk? Does time and space talk?
Pay homage to Allah.
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Dear Rami
What part of 'And there is none like unto Him' don't you understand. As I said before, this sentence relates to physical, emotional, spiritual and knowledgeable plus every other concept imaginable. If God was a man, then the sentence would read 'And there IS like unto Him' because God would be like a man. One other member went as far as stating that God is a man but is immortal rather than a mortal. If that was the case then the following ayat would also be invalid
6103 No human vision can encompass Him, whereas He encompasses all human vision for He alone is unfathomable, all-aware.
Or is one saying that an immortal man is so special that he cannot be seen as well as not die. Immortal means exempt from death. It does not mean invisible. So if God was a man who was immortal, the only difference between mortal man and immortal man would be the death part. We should be able to see him. Right?
Anyway, getting back to your erroneous point, God Himself has given you His descriptive attribute in Chapter 112 but you still cannot see it. When I see your responses, an ayat comes to mind
1514 Yet even had We opened to them a gateway to heaven and they had ascended, on and on, up to it, -
1515 they would surely have said, "It is only our eyes that are spellbound! Nay, we have been bewitched!,As verse 112 is too short and hard for you to understand, I give you something easy
37149 AND NOW ask them to enlighten thee Has thy Sustainer daughters, whereas they would have sons? -
37150 or is it that We have created the angels female, and they have witnessed ? -
37151 Oh, verily, it is out of their own falsehood that some people assert, -
37152 ?God has begotten ?; and, verily, they are lying , -
37153 ?He has chosen daughters in preference to sons?! -
37154 What is amiss with you and your judgment? -
37155 Will you not, then, bethink yourselves? -
37156 Or have you, perchance, a clear evidence ? -
37157 Produce, then, that divine writ of yours, if you are speaking the truth! -
37158 And some people have invented a kinship between Him and all manner of invisible forces although these invisible forces know well that, verily, they shall indeed be arraigned -
37159 limitless is God in His glory, above anything that men may devise by way of definition!Don't think too hard in case you get a headache.
Finally, I have been paying homage to Allah SWT from the day I was born and will do so until the day I die.
Now pay homage to Krishna.
Peace
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Peace Zulu12,
This debate is ages old. It is not new. It rages through many religions. Anyway, how do you respond to Ahmed Bilal's assertion about the two hands?
Peace,
Rami
It's an expression. Same expression in the English language... If you built a house yourself, you say "I built it with my own 2 hands". It's just the way of saying you did it yourself, no help.
...Or you could take everything literally, as you have a habit of doing...
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It's an expression. Same expression in the English language... If you built a house yourself, you say "I built it with my own 2 hands". It's just the way of saying you did it yourself, no help.
...Or you could take everything literally, as you have a habit of doing...
So this is metaphorical? OK then how was God speaking to Iblees? Was this conversation real or is it just a dialogue adapting the interactions between the primordial forces of nature? I can play metaphor. It is very easy.
There is also another thing regarding the hands of God, he will fold the heavens by his right hand. Why not the left? Why say right metaphorically speaking?
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I would like to add a challenge to the mystics who oppose the anthropomorphic nature of God.
Read the following verse
So when Moses came to Our appointed time, and his Lord spoke to him, he said "My Lord, let me look upon you." He said "You will not see Me, but look upon the mountain, if it stays in its place then you will see Me." So when his Lord revealed Himself to the mountain, He caused it to crumble; thus Moses fell unconscious. When he awoke, he said "Glory be to You, I repent to You and I am the first of those who believe."
The verse is revealing, God went unto the mountain, this mean God is not omnipresent. So when he reached the mountain, the mountain was crushed. This proves God is contained within time and space. This is impossible for a mystical omnipresent God. See also God telling Moses, if the mountain stays, you WILL see me. If God was omnipresent and invisible by nature, he would have told Moses you can't see me not you WILL NOT. You CANT.
Peace.
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Figure of speech is when a word or phrase is used in a non-literal sense. Similar to these ayats
1671 And on some of you God has bestowed more abundant means of sustenance than on others and yet, they who are more abundantly favoured are unwilling to share their sustenance with those whom their right hands possess, so that they might be equal in this respect. Will they, then, God's blessings deny?
What possessions does one physically hold in their right hands? Is your house, bank account, vehicles, bonds, investments, assets etc held with the right hand. No it is a figure of speech.
1728 And if thou turn aside from those seeking to obtain thy Sustainer's grace and hoping for it, at least speak unto them with gentle speech.
1729 And neither allow thy hand to remain shackled to thy neck, nor stretch it forth to the utmost limit , lest thou find thyself blamed , or even destitute.
Was the hand physically shackled to the neck?
3355 it is no sin for them before their fathers, or their sons, or their brothers, or their brothers? sons, or their sisters? sons, or their womenfolk, or such as their right hands may possess. But remain conscious of God - for, behold, God is witness unto everything.
Once again, are assets physically owned by the right hand? No it is a figure of speech.
3665 On that Day We shall set a seal on their mouths but their hands will speak unto Us, and their feet will bear witness to whatever they have earned .
Can hands speak? No. But on this occasion they physically will so it is not a figure of speech.
4126 NOW THOSE who are bent on denying the truth say ?Do not listen to this Qur?an, but rather talk frivolously about it, so that you might gain the upper hand!?
Which is the upper hand. The left or the right? And which is the lower hand?
Rami my friend, you must learn to differentiate between literal and metaphorical statements within the correct context. When God mentions creating with His hand or having the dominions resting in His hands or rolling up the heavens with His hand, are all figures of speech and not some secret message indirectly telling mankind that God is really a man. And yes you are right, this is an age old argument where Muslims believe and accept that God is like no other, and non Muslims believe God is man incarnate.
Anyway, I'm done on this subject.
Peace
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Figure of speech is when a word or phrase is used in a non-literal sense. Similar to these ayats
1671 And on some of you God has bestowed more abundant means of sustenance than on others and yet, they who are more abundantly favoured are unwilling to share their sustenance with those whom their right hands possess, so that they might be equal in this respect. Will they, then, God's blessings deny?
What possessions does one physically hold in their right hands? Is your house, bank account, vehicles, bonds, investments, assets etc held with the right hand. No it is a figure of speech.
1728 And if thou turn aside from those seeking to obtain thy Sustainer's grace and hoping for it, at least speak unto them with gentle speech.
1729 And neither allow thy hand to remain shackled to thy neck, nor stretch it forth to the utmost limit , lest thou find thyself blamed , or even destitute.
Was the hand physically shackled to the neck?
3355 it is no sin for them before their fathers, or their sons, or their brothers, or their brothers? sons, or their sisters? sons, or their womenfolk, or such as their right hands may possess. But remain conscious of God - for, behold, God is witness unto everything.
Once again, are assets physically owned by the right hand? No it is a figure of speech.
3665 On that Day We shall set a seal on their mouths but their hands will speak unto Us, and their feet will bear witness to whatever they have earned .
Can hands speak? No. But on this occasion they physically will so it is not a figure of speech.
4126 NOW THOSE who are bent on denying the truth say ?Do not listen to this Qur?an, but rather talk frivolously about it, so that you might gain the upper hand!?
Which is the upper hand. The left or the right? And which is the lower hand?
Rami my friend, you must learn to differentiate between literal and metaphorical statements within the correct context. When God mentions creating with His hand or having the dominions resting in His hands or rolling up the heavens with His hand, are all figures of speech and not some secret message indirectly telling mankind that God is really a man. And yes you are right, this is an age old argument where Muslims believe and accept that God is like no other, and non Muslims believe God is man incarnate.
Anyway, I'm done on this subject.
Peace
I don't deny the above mentioned examples of figure of speech. What about God coming to the mountain?
Plus it doesn't have to be God is a MAN but God is indeed limited in time and space. Otherwise, he can't act, hear or speak.
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Peace Rami,
I would like to add a challenge to the mystics who oppose the anthropomorphic nature of God.
Read the following verse
So when Moses came to Our appointed time, and his Lord spoke to him, he said "My Lord, let me look upon you." He said "You will not see Me, but look upon the mountain, if it stays in its place then you will see Me." So when his Lord revealed Himself to the mountain, He caused it to crumble; thus Moses fell unconscious. When he awoke, he said "Glory be to You, I repent to You and I am the first of those who believe."
The verse is revealing, God went unto the mountain, this mean God is not omnipresent. So when he reached the mountain, the mountain was crushed. This proves God is contained within time and space. This is impossible for a mystical omnipresent God. See also God telling Moses, if the mountain stays, you WILL see me. If God was omnipresent and invisible by nature, he would have told Moses you can't see me not you WILL NOT. You CANT.
I was just getting ready to address this, bro. That passage, if nothing else, PROVES that Allah must have some type of physical form, within the realm of time and space. He can't "go to the mountain" if He's OMNIPRESENT - that doesn't make any sense. He can't speak to Moses if He's not a real Being. If He's some type of unreal entity, how could He appoint prophets and messengers? How could He send angels? How could He author books? In order to do that, One must be REAL.
On the issue of nothing being "comparable" to Allah, that must be seen in context. Allah is referred to as the "BEST KNOWER", implying that He has KNOWLEDGE. Now, does that mean humans are incapable of attaining knowledge, since this would make them comparable to God? Absolutely not! It simply means they can't reach the highest point of knowledge, having the knowledge of everything. Allah is referred to as being "merciful". Does that mean humans can't show mercy? The ruler in Egypt was even referred to in the Qur'aan as "rabb"/lord. Does that mean he is comparable to Allah, simply because they are both "lords"? The answer is an emphatic NO! That man is not comparable to God, being that he can never reach the level or supremacy of God. He can have some of the same characteristics and physical traits - he just can't manifest the supreme qualities of Allah on the same magnitude. There is nothing in the Qur'aan that says, or even implies, that Allah doesn't have a physical body.
Peace!
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Peace Rami,
I was just getting ready to address this, bro. That passage, if nothing else, PROVES that Allah must have some type of physical form, within the realm of time and space. He can't "go to the mountain" if He's OMNIPRESENT - that doesn't make any sense. He can't speak to Moses if He's not a real Being. If He's some type of unreal entity, how could He appoint prophets and messengers? How could He send angels? How could He author books? In order to do that, One must be REAL.
On the issue of nothing being "comparable" to Allah, that must be seen in context. Allah is referred to as the "BEST KNOWER", implying that He has KNOWLEDGE. Now, does that mean humans are incapable of attaining knowledge, since this would make them comparable to God? Absolutely not! It simply means they can't reach the highest point of knowledge, having the knowledge of everything. Allah is referred to as being "merciful". Does that mean humans can't show mercy? The ruler in Egypt was even referred to in the Qur'aan as "rabb"/lord. Does that mean he is comparable to Allah, simply because they are both "lords"? The answer is an emphatic NO! That man is not comparable to God, being that he can never reach the level or supremacy of God. He can have some of the same characteristics and physical traits - he just can't manifest the supreme qualities of Allah on the same magnitude. There is nothing in the Qur'aan that says, or even implies, that Allah doesn't have a physical body.
Peace!
Total rubbish. The pantheistic concept of God works very well within the quran.
The verse is revealing, God went unto the mountain, this mean God is not omnipresent. So when he reached the mountain, the mountain was crushed. This proves God is contained within time and space. This is impossible for a mystical omnipresent God. See also God telling Moses, if the mountain stays, you WILL see me. If God was omnipresent and invisible by nature, he would have told Moses you can't see me not you WILL NOT. You CANT.
Don't talk rubbish. "Can not" and "will not" are identical statements in the limiting case where they meet (e.g. you CAN NOT travel faster than the speed of light, you WILL NOT travel faster than the speed of light). It does not say anywhere that God translated his physical location to the mountain, it merely implies that the mountain got an increased presence of God within that region and owing to that, it crumbled. That does not change the fact that God is all-pervading in the least, in the same manner that if you have an all pervasive electric field and you increase the intensity of the electric field in some region of space, the entire electric field is not suddenly localised to that space.
2435 Allah is the light of the heavens and the earth; a likeness of His light is as a niche in which is a lamp, the lamp is in a glass, (and) the glass is as it were a brightly shining star, lit from a blessed olive-tree, neither eastern nor western, the oil whereof almost gives light though fire touch it not-- light upon light-- Allah guides to His light whom He pleases, and Allah sets forth parables for men, and Allah is Cognizant of all things.
This verse alone shows that an anthropomorphic concept of God does not work within the framework of the quran. The closest concept is panentheism.
He it is Who has revealed the Book to you; some of its verses are decisive, they are the basis of the Book, and others are allegorical; then as for those in whose hearts there is perversity they follow the part of it which is allegorical, seeking to mislead and seeking to give it (their own) interpretation. but none knows its interpretation except Allah, and those who are firmly rooted in knowledge say We believe in it, it is all from our Lord; and none do mind except those having understanding.
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Total rubbish. The pantheistic concept of God works very well within the quran.
Don't talk rubbish. "Can not" and "will not" are identical statements in the limiting case where they meet (e.g. you CAN NOT travel faster than the speed of light, you WILL NOT travel faster than the speed of light). It does not say anywhere that God translated his physical location to the mountain, it merely implies that the mountain got an increased presence of God within that region and owing to that, it crumbled. That does not change the fact that God is all-pervading in the least, in the same manner that if you have an all pervasive electric field and you increase the intensity of the electric field in some region of space, the entire electric field is not suddenly localised to that space.
This verse alone shows that an anthropomorphic concept of God does not work within the framework of the quran. The closest concept is panentheism.
Your concept is Platonic and more closer to Hinduism. All ancient near eastern religions had the concept of an anthropomorphic God...almost all of the prominent Jewish sages and early Muslim scholars agreed on that concept....it was the influence of the Greeks that made this concept repulsive to the minds of the so called 'reasonable' thinkers like the 'Mutazilites' and Maimonides and most Muslims and Jews today.