Is there anybody willing to deny this?
-
Be a Jew, Christian, Muslim, Atheist or Hindu or anybody. Is there anybody willing to deny this verse?
Certainly, One who is not a Deity for adoration and worship, is my sustainer, maintainer, accomplisher and foster and so is yours. Consequently, you shall feel free from his slavery. This is the path, which is original and most straight, undeviating and unceasing.
Peace,
Badar
-
I might ... but I don't know what it says and which ayah it is. And of course I don't disagree with everything in the Koran.
I am a native English speaker but I don't understand your translation.
"Certainly, One who is not a Deity for adoration and worship,"
(The 'not' confuses me. Is it saying the One is a deity for adoration and worship or not a deity for adoration and worship?)"is my sustainer, maintainer, accomplisher and foster and so is yours."
(no questions)"Consequently, you shall feel free from his slavery."
(What makes a person feel free from his slavery? Whose slavery?)This is the path, which is original and most straight, undeviating and unceasing.
(no questions)Sincerely, I don't understand what was said to comment. Maybe if I know the ayah I can look at other translations.
-
Salaam Wootah,
it is clear, your confusion is in your inability to accept what is written as correct, you as a Christian base your entire religion upon the concept of a personified God, this being the only God form, that wishes your adoration and worship , 'Certainly, One who is NOT a Deity for adoration and worship, is my sustainer, maintainer, accomplisher and fosterer and so is yours. Consequently, you shall feel free from this slavery. This is the path, which is original and most straight, undeviating and unceasing.'.
The slavery is the worship and adoration of a personified God. Allah is not a God, and does not want worship nor adoration.
-
Salaam Wootah,
Hi!it is clear, your confusion is in your inability to accept what is written as correct, you as a Christian base your entire religion upon the concept of a personified God, this being the only God form, that wishes your adoration and worship , 'Certainly, One who is NOT a Deity for adoration and worship, is my sustainer, maintainer, accomplisher and fosterer and so is yours. Consequently, you shall feel free from this slavery. This is the path, which is original and most straight, undeviating and unceasing.'.
OK so you are saying that Allah is not for adoration and worship. That was hard for me to believe as I do think the opposite. Hence my question. Hence your analysis.
The slavery is the worship and adoration of a personified God. Allah is not a God, and does not want worship nor adoration.
Allah is not God? But what are Muslims doing when they go to the Mosque. Aren't they worshipping Allah? /confused.
Do you know what Ayah he was referring to?
-
Salaam Wootah,
it doesn't really matter which ayat it is; these simple statements run throughout the Qur'an, the traditional translations do not apply the correct rules of grammar that were used at the time of the Rasul Muhammad.
The consequent corruption and diachronic dissolution of Islam into its modern form being the result of these distortions of grammar.
Islam is not a religion, Allah is not a God, Muslims are extremely rare, what you see in mosques has little to do with Islam, but a great deal to do with Christianity, Judaism, and Zoroastrianism.
-
Salaam Wootah,
it doesn't really matter which ayat it is; these simple statements run throughout the Qur'an, the traditional translations do not apply the correct rules of grammar that were used at the time of the Rasul Muhammad.
The consequent corruption and diachronic dissolution of Islam into its modern form being the result of these distortions of grammar.
Islam is not a religion, Allah is not a God, Muslims are extremely rare, what you see in mosques has little to do with Islam, but a great deal to do with Christianity, Judaism, and Zoroastrianism.
Wow I love free minds. To be honest I would defend anyone here that really values what free minds stands for. What do you believe so I can understand where you are coming from? I clearly thought you were a Muslim or Koran alone Muslim.
So the ayah doesn't come from the Koran? All I want to know is the context. If there is none then fine.
-
wootah, just in case you didnt know....
Abdun Nur and his Friends believe that There is No such thing as God, or Allah-(as we all know it)....
Basically He believes that the Arabic Shahadah "la-illaha-illala/There is No God but Allah" is Incorrect and is "Mental Confusion".Rather they believe that the Correct Shahada is "La-illaha-illala/There is No GOD (only) Allah.
Which then they go on to belive that "Allah" actually means "The One who is NOT GOD"...instead of "The God".God according to Abdun and his Friends is a Mental Confusion type of Concept that is bad. They believe basically that there is only a Single Conciousness who is in reality and creates reality apart of reality etc....Quantum Physical non Physical Dictum within dictum of the scientifical dictum universal reality consiouness.
Basically...They believe there is NO GOD, while not being Athiests. (if you can imagine that).
So, there is a Creator who Creates and who does not want Worship, Prayer, or any type of love or adoration.
(because according to them them that is Mental Confusion)...So basically, Just live your life, Read his Translation of the Quran, Dont use Money, Dont Support Mental Confusion, Dont Pray, Dont worship god and do Charity.
Plain and simple. thats basically his points.Look I just saved you 10 hours of Argument in only 5 mins! wooo hoo!
and here is the Thread just incase you want to verify it for yourself.
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9599046.0was my Conclusion Correct bkanwar2?
-
Look I just saved you 10 hours of Argument in only 5 mins! D wooo hoo!
and here is the Thread just incase you want to verify it for yourself.
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9599046.0was my Conclusion Correct bkanwar2?
Thank you, thank you, thank you
-
So basically, Just live your life, Read his Translation of the Quran, Dont use Money, Dont Support Mental Confusion, Dont Pray, Dont worship god and do Charity.
Plain and simple. thats basically his points.Look I just saved you 10 hours of Argument in only 5 mins! D wooo hoo!
and here is the Thread just incase you want to verify it for yourself.
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9599046.0was my Conclusion Correct bkanwar2?
Peace, not at all. You are getting it all wrong. What it shows that following ones ancestors blindly, is wrong. The message is for real but completely lost due corruptions and natural evolutions of language. Hence, my call is based upon the biggest prophetic tradition against priestly tradition. Tradition of change, rejecting bad traditions and adopting the tradition of enhancing knowledge. Hence, achieving a belief based upon knowledge. This leads to rejection of priestly traditions of status-co, ignorance and stagnation.
Call for joining hands to revive the real message and lead all humanity towards fulfilling it's purpose of creation. One such purpose appears to be enhancement of knowledge for collective betterment of humanity. As well peace and harmony between all those, who share the same end points, irrespective of their beliefs and modes of rituals or traditions and customs.
Badar
-
well I apperciate the sincerity, however the Messege (you reffer to) is a little beyond my rational.
I dont think I am able to comprehend even the little concepts you talk about.I've read Abdun's Articles and the Threads on freeminds... and basically The above post I did is what I understand or think about what you are trying to say.
Its a little too complex for me. -
Peace,
Yes, I deny it -- the interpretation posted is atrocious and contradictory.
http//www.islamawakened.com/Quran/43/64/
2139 say do you dispute with us in God and He is our Lord and your Lord?
-
I think you meant this ayat
351 "Verily, God is my Sustainer as well as your Sustainer; so worship Him this is a straight way."
or did you mean this one
1936 And "Verily, God is my Sustainer as well as your Sustainer; so worship Him this (alone] is a straight way."
or this one ( o)
4364 ?Verily, God is my Sustainer as well as your Sustainer; so worship Him this is a straight way!?
You will see that all 3 ayats mean exactly what they say. There is no red herring here. Which is what you tried to do in the first place when you initiated the thread.
The question that you need to ask yourself is why on earth would Muslims of all people on this earth, deny this ayat when it makes perfect sense and is an Article of Faith?
Nice try though!
Peace
-
For me, God is the English translated monotheistic word for Allah SWT. The last time I checked, tt is a term used to define the creator and supreme ruler of the universe. I do not make a big deal out of it. God is God. Period. There is absolutely nothing further to add. Either one can accept or they don't. If you want to search for an alternative, then please be my guest.
Additionally, if you on the other hand also believe that the term God should not be used in the English language to define Allah SWT or The Supreme Being etc etc, then that is your prerogative. Over a billion Muslims and numerous scholars/translators all around the world don't seem to have a problem with the term God!
I leave you with this beautiful ayat which is self explanatory even for the die hard's.
17110 Say "invoke God, or invoke the Most Gracious by whichever name you invoke Him, His are all the attributes of perfection. And be not too loud in thy prayer nor speak it in too low a voice, but follow a way in-between;
Peace
-
Very reasonable discussion.
Few other points of concern-
There is a pre Islamic Abdullah which was likely Abd Illah, which would then mean Abd to a diety which is meant to be worshiped and praise. If you take it that sense, it would fit, but not otherwise.
-
Allah was likely replaced for Illah in common spoken language and accepted as a word for GOD, as it is believed that GOD is a diety for worship and praise, more in the worldy, king like manner.
3)The link provided below and other evidence point that Allah and Illah cannot be the same, grammatically and linguistically.
Now coming back to Linguistic resources, below are the links for review from Lane's lexicon that clearly shows nobody knows the real root or source of this word. How come if it is, and was such a fundamental concept; there is so much uncertainty about it as a word? Please review second page with care. There is no way that any Arabic grammar rules seem to explain this word in this reference.http//www.studyquran.org/LaneLexicon/Volume1/00000119.pdf
http//www.studyquran.org/LaneLexicon/Volume1/00000120.pdf-
It may be acceptable, if you would take Allah as a replacement word, which would mean "God" in Arabic language in a generic term. If not so, and it is insisted that it be used as a proper noun, then it poses a fundamental issue as to why a proper name in a specific language. If you carefully analyse all the words, known as names of God in Qur'Aan, you will realise that they all are in fact attributes and not used as proper nouns, and attributes can be translated in any language. As we know that the message of Qur'Aan and the attributes can be translated into any language, but Allah cannot be. Hence it is difficult to conceive that our creator will pick a proper noun for himself in a specific langauage, unless he is using this term in a more generic term, which is less likely.
-
If word Allah means, as explained by Badar with the help of Lanes, then it would make more common sense understanding, as our Creator is for the people of any and all languages.
-
If Allah is in fact not a proper noun, then all ritualistic practices, which start with this name becomes fabricated and man made. If Allah on the other hand is generic for God in Arabic, then people should be allowed and be able to use any generic word in their languages used for God/Allah, as long as it does not point to a particular creation of God including any human figure.
-
Use of any language describing all other names (attributes) of God, therefore has never been an issue, but we cannot find an equal translation of word Allah in any language, as it does not carry an attribute. All other words, including Rabb, can be easily described in what ever language you want to describe it, and no one, in the right frame of mind can have an issue or even an arguement, as all attributes of God described, should make extremely good and understandable sense to any human, unless someone just want to say no for the sake of saying no.
I am not still sure as to what is right and what is not, but such Question always loom in the mind. I love my Rabb the most, and am always praying to him to make the path described by him, more easily visible to us, so we could lead a better life, and not just the life of blind following.
Pece to all
-
-
For me, God is the English translated monotheistic word for Allah SWT. The last time I checked, tt is a term used to define the creator and supreme ruler of the universe. I do not make a big deal out of it. God is God. Period. There is absolutely nothing further to add. Either one can accept or they don't. If you want to search for an alternative, then please be my guest.
Additionally, if you on the other hand also believe that the term God should not be used in the English language to define Allah SWT or The Supreme Being etc etc, then that is your prerogative. Over a billion Muslims and numerous scholars/translators all around the world don't seem to have a problem with the term God!
I leave you with this beautiful ayat which is self explanatory even for the die hard's.
17110 Say "invoke God, or invoke the Most Gracious by whichever name you invoke Him, His are all the attributes of perfection. And be not too loud in thy prayer nor speak it in too low a voice, but follow a way in-between;
Peace
Peace, unlike Arabic word Allah, which traditionalist claim to be a proper name of the entity behind all of Universe. The English word god is a title, given to same entity. This title implies that this entity is a deity worthy for worship, sacrifice etc. Please see link for detailed explanation of word god. Is this what you mean, when say "god is god".
http//wahiduddin.net/words/name_god.htm
Thanks, kn for reasoned response again.
Badar -
Dear bkanwar2
When I am talking or writing about Allah SWT in the English language, I have absolutely no problem using the term God in order to get a point across which relates to Allah SWT as the Lord of the Worlds, the Almighty, the Supreme, the Creator, the Omnipotent, the Omniscient, the One and Only, the Merciful, the Beneficent or any other of His attributes. Like I said before, for me, God is God when utilising the English language.
I really am not going to investigate, lose sleep or debate until 'the cows come home' regarding the term God in the English language. It really is a simple concept.
Once again
17110 Say "invoke God, or invoke the Most Gracious by whichever name you invoke Him, His are all the attributes of perfection. And be not too loud in thy prayer nor speak it in too low a voice, but follow a way in-between;
Peace