"O, that' s just how to the lunar calender works"
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Salam,
Please help me clarify this. I have seen my friendz and family fast in all months of the year. Some year they fast in the heat of summer in July, and some years they fast in the coldest of weather in December. To my limited understanding, I believe fasting has been decreed for us in the month of "ramadhan." And also I believe it's within this month that "the night of decree" occurs. When exactly this month is, what is meant by this "month", and when the night of decree is, as I know, is a topic still open to debate.
But what I fail to understand is why can't the millions of people who fast at various seasons throughout their lifetime, realize that this month of ramadan can't be simulataneously in the winter and summer. That this month (and the night of decree within this month) can't be on a winter in one year and summer in another year. It can only be on EITHER summer or winter. So if I believe the month of ramadan (just a random example) is in the month of July where you can see flowers everywhere you look, no matter what calender you use, eihter lunar, solar, or make up your own calender, You can change the name of the month, to any variable X of your choice, but the fact is, In month July or X, it will be hot and there will be flowers outside. If there are no flowers, and it's cold outside, then this cannot be ramadan.
How do people justify fasting every single month or seasons(spring, summer, fall, winter) and still think it's ramadan every time ? Is my logic flawed somehow? And anyone I've asked so far has said "it's a lunar calender thing." Of course, I'm making the assumption that the person has not moved out of a particular georgraphical region and is observering ramadan in a different month/season every year. Thank's for your help.
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Salam,
Please help me clarify this. I have seen my friendz and family fast in all months of the year. Some year they fast in the heat of summer in July, and some years they fast in the coldest of weather in December. To my limited understanding, I believe fasting has been decreed for us in the month of "ramadhan." And also I believe it's within this month that "the night of decree" occurs. When exactly this month is, what is meant by this "month", and when the night of decree is, as I know, is a topic still open to debate.
But what I fail to understand is why can't the millions of people who fast at various seasons throughout their lifetime, realize that this month of ramadan can't be simulataneously in the winter and summer. That this month (and the night of decree within this month) can't be on a winter in one year and summer in another year. It can only be on EITHER summer or winter. So if I believe the month of ramadan (just a random example) is in the month of July where you can see flowers everywhere you look, no matter what calender you use, eihter lunar, solar, or make up your own calender, You can change the name of the month, to any variable X of your choice, but the fact is, In month July or X, it will be hot and there will be flowers outside. If there are no flowers, and it's cold outside, then this cannot be ramadan.
How do people justify fasting every single month or seasons(spring, summer, fall, winter) and still think it's ramadan every time ? Is my logic flawed somehow? And anyone I've asked so far has said "it's a lunar calender thing." Of course, I'm making the assumption that the person has not moved out of a particular georgraphical region and is observering ramadan in a different month/season every year. Thank's for your help.
Cause they dont use their brains '(
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Cause they dont use their brains '(
You're the only who doesn't use their brain, and you are extremely ignorant and presumptuous. I can't believe you call yourself a Muslim yet can be this misinformed and still act like you know the answers. Truly sickening and pathetic, you should be ashamed.
To the OP, please don't take offense to that, I wasn't speaking to you and I know you were just asking and honest and legitimate question, but you are completely wrong in all of your assumptions. For some reason, you assume that a lunar calendar has 365 days in a year. If that were the case, then YES, Ramadan would always correspond to the seasons, every year, but it does not.
However, the lunar calendar only has 354 days in a year. Yet, it still has 12 months. 11 days shorter than a solar year. This means that for every 3 years, the lunar month of Ramadan "moves up" a month compared to the solar calendar. Therefor, over the course of 9 years, Ramadan switches to an earlier season altogether. Over about 36 years (approx), the entire year is cycled through, and the cycle starts again.
I hope now you can understand how Ramadan can change seasons now. The lunar and solar year do not line up perfectly, and every year the month of Ramadan starts 11 days earlier compared to the solar calendar.
BTW I think its great that you are spending your time and money to volunteer and help actually TEACH children, the Quran, not just how to say it. Very admirable and brave.
Peace.
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You're the only who doesn't use their brain, and you are extremely ignorant and presumptuous. I can't believe you call yourself a Muslim yet can be this misinformed and still act like you know the answers. Truly sickening and pathetic, you should be ashamed.
To the OP, please don't take offense to that, I wasn't speaking to you and I know you were just asking and honest and legitimate question, but you are completely wrong in all of your assumptions. For some reason, you assume that a lunar calendar has 365 days in a year. If that were the case, then YES, Ramadan would always correspond to the seasons, every year, but it does not.
However, the lunar calendar only has 354 days in a year. Yet, it still has 12 months. 11 days shorter than a solar year. This means that for every 3 years, the lunar month of Ramadan "moves up" a month compared to the solar calendar. Therefor, over the course of 9 years, Ramadan switches to an earlier season altogether. Over about 36 years (approx), the entire year is cycled through, and the cycle starts again.
I hope now you can understand how Ramadan can change seasons now. The lunar and solar year do not line up perfectly, and every year the month of Ramadan starts 11 days earlier compared to the solar calendar.
BTW I think its great that you are spending your time and money to volunteer and help actually TEACH children, the Quran, not just how to say it. Very admirable and brave.
Peace.
Yes im asham of you yes
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You're the only who doesn't use their brain, and you are extremely ignorant and presumptuous. I can't believe you call yourself a Muslim yet can be this misinformed and still act like you know the answers. Truly sickening and pathetic, you should be ashamed.
To the OP, please don't take offense to that, I wasn't speaking to you and I know you were just asking and honest and legitimate question, but you are completely wrong in all of your assumptions. For some reason, you assume that a lunar calendar has 365 days in a year. If that were the case, then YES, Ramadan would always correspond to the seasons, every year, but it does not.
However, the lunar calendar only has 354 days in a year. Yet, it still has 12 months. 11 days shorter than a solar year. This means that for every 3 years, the lunar month of Ramadan "moves up" a month compared to the solar calendar. Therefor, over the course of 9 years, Ramadan switches to an earlier season altogether. Over about 36 years (approx), the entire year is cycled through, and the cycle starts again.
I hope now you can understand how Ramadan can change seasons now. The lunar and solar year do not line up perfectly, and every year the month of Ramadan starts 11 days earlier compared to the solar calendar.
BTW I think its great that you are spending your time and money to volunteer and help actually TEACH children, the Quran, not just how to say it. Very admirable and brave.
Peace.
Salam,
Thank you for helping me clarify things. I want to clarify to you I don?t assume the lunar calender is 365 days. If you refer to my earlier post, you will see I don?t even refer to a lunar or a gregorian calender. What I was using is just plain simple logic. This logic prevails no matter what calender you use, even if you make up your own! So yes, I can see how the current islamic calender will lead you to have fasting at various seasons over time.But what I was asking is, is that logical? It is completely logical for the acutal month of ?ramadan? as defined by the islamic calender to occur in summer, fall, winter, spring. I see this. The islamic calender is set this way. But what I fail to see is how can the actual ?revelation of the quran = fasting time? change seasons? Allah has revealed the quran in a certain month and that certain month surely has to fall into a certain season. Whatever that season is should equate to the time of fasting. Do you follow me? If Allah revealed the quran during summertime, NOTHING CAN CHANGE THIS FACT. Islamic calender can change ?the month of ramadhan? to any season, but the fact that quran decesended during the summer when it was HOT outside cannot change. If the quran was revealed when it was winter, NOTHING CAN CHANGE THIS FACT. And therefore, even if the ?month of ramadhan? changes, the night of revelation and the season of revelation must remain the same and it is in this season we need to be fasting. Do you see what I?m saying? Please, if my logic is flawed, help me.
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But what I was asking is, is that logical? It is completely logical for the acutal month of ramadan as defined by the islamic calender to occur in summer, fall, winter, spring. I see this. The islamic calender is set this way. But what I fail to see is how can the actual revelation of the quran = fasting time change seasons? Allah has revealed the quran in a certain month and that certain month surely has to fall into a certain season. Whatever that season is should equate to the time of fasting. Do you follow me? If Allah revealed the quran during summertime, NOTHING CAN CHANGE THIS FACT. Islamic calender can change the month of ramadhan to any season, but the fact that quran decesended during the summer when it was HOT outside cannot change. If the quran was revealed when it was winter, NOTHING CAN CHANGE THIS FACT. And therefore, even if the month of ramadhan changes, the night of revelation and the season of revelation must remain the same and it is in this season we need to be fasting. Do you see what Im saying? Please, if my logic is flawed, help me.
Your whole basis on logic is based on what you consider to be a "year". If you consider a year to be the time that spring starts every year, then that's fine. However, what is considered to be a year in one calendar is not always considered a year in another calendar. For instance, Ramadan would still shift seasons over a thousand years if you were using a 365 day calendar if you didn't also include an extra day in the year every 4 years (leap year). You also forget the fact that in Saudi Arabia, summer starts rather early. It's not like they really have "4 seasons". Its harder to tell when one starts and ends.
You are assuming that all calendars must match up with the seasons, year after year. However, the Islamic calendar is based off of the moon. It actually makes sense that they were using a calendar based off the moon. For a solar calendar, it requires lots of record keeping. You have to basically have a written calendar somewhere to look at. The ancient Arabs would sometimes spend months at a time traveling in caravans. It makes much more sense for them just to be able to look at the moon and know when a new month starts... No record keeping required. The Quran said that the moon was given to us for keeping time. It becomes kind of complicated when you switch to a solar calendar, instead you end up just counting days to keep track of time.
I hope you understand that a 365 day calendar wasn't really logical or practical for the ancient Arabs. Your perception of what a "year" is is only in your head. A year doesn't necessarily mean that the seasons align to a month every year. It's all completely arbitrary, you could consider 30 days to be a "year" if you want to invent your own calendar. It makes no sense for muslims to keep a separate calendar just so they can know what day exactly to start Ramadan every year, so it will "match with the seasons".... Why not use the lunar calendar that they use normally anyway?
Why does a year have to match exactly with the seasons? These are all western ideas which sound logical now that we have printed calendars in every house, but don't seem so logical when you look at the fact that the lunar calendar was popular because of it's simplicity and because it relied on empirical observations which anyone could calculate as long as there's a clear sky.
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Peace ST,
Why does a year have to match exactly with the seasons? These are all western ideas which sound logical now that we have printed calendars in every house, but don't seem so logical when you look at the fact that the lunar calendar was popular because of it's simplicity and because it relied on empirical observations which anyone could calculate as long as there's a clear sky.
Every person in the world naturally knows that the year has to match with the seasons. I don't think that farming, hunting, raising livestock, herding sheep, going to the beach, wearing heavy clothing and all sorts of things that we time with the seasons are "western ideas". On the other hand, a lunar calendar is completely useless. In fact, the arabs never used a purely lunar calendar prior to Umar instituting it. Certainly, the Arab nomads were very aware of the seasons and had to accurately keep track of them in order to know when to move from one grazing area to another depending on the season. Same thing for the Arab farmers, the Arab traders, the Arabs who went out to the sea, etc.
The god clearly tells us that the year is solar and tells us exactly how to determine the year
17.12. We have made the night and the day as two signs the sign of the night We have obscured, while the sign of the day we have made visible so that you may seek favors from your Lord, and so that you may know the number of years and the calculation, and We have explained all things in detail.
The only way one can use the night and day to know the number of years is to take the year as the interval between shortest/longest day/night and the next shortest/longest day/night. In other words, the year is solar and it is the interval between summer solstice and the next summer solstice or the winter solstice and the next winter solstice. This will always be true no matter if 100 years passed or 100 Million years passed.
Peace,
Ayman
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the night of revelation and the season of revelation must remain the same and it is in this season we need to be fasting. Do you see what I?m saying? Please, if my logic is flawed, help me.
Peace Madhoshi04,
Indeed, the blessed night in which all things were clarified is important.
443-4 We have descended it in a blessed night - we were warners - in it (the night) every matter of wisdom was clarified.
The world changed forever on that night, and we can indeed find out when it was in order to abstain from food, drink and sex correctly. I have read and re-read the following article and checked it against the passages of the great reading (al-quran al-adhim) and I would highly reccomend it
http//free-minds.org/timing
Unless the god wills otherwise, I will be fasting according to this method for the first time this summer. For the last 5 years I followed the fabricated "Islamic Calendar", which has no basis in the great reading. May the god have mercy on us all.
Peace,
-David
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first of all let us agree on what a shaher is ,
yes every one tell you it is a month ,well it is not .
all we know is that a shaher is present twelve times in a year.
and it is both lunar and solar.very well.
ok the prophet was told to tell us in the quran about the ahillat ,we need to use them so we know time of haj.good
so what is a shaher. it is the ahillat,but hey wait a minute am i saying that a month is from one ahillah to another.like maybe 26 days no not at all.
a ahillat is the combination of the hillals that is between or around five days. when the moon dies and there are those nights with out the moon then the moon is born again.those nights are what we call a shaher.yes those nights with out a moon.
yes that is a shaher and i will show you why. is is like only about five days.
and we have twelve of them in one year.so that we know the years.
good so it starts with the deiing of the moon to the birth of a new one,now why did allah tell us in the verse in the quran that we should come the homes from the door and not from the back,for if we count the ahiilat from the birth of a new moon then one shaher would be like 26 days but if come from the door of the shaher it will be like only five days.
strange what makes me say that,ok give one more minute.see about ashhur el haram,what could there be that we know them.
bare with me ,so now we know that a shaher is not the moon cycle,but the cycle of the ahillat.great,so how do we know ashhur al haram,we know from quran they are four.in one year four of those shahers have less nights then the ussuall ashhur.yes it is strange they are the shahers that come after the shaher of ramadan.and i will tell you how we know it is ramadan ,give me another minute.
onlythose ashhur all haram are seperate from eachother they like have two ashhur between them that are regular ashhur.in ahshur all haram their nights are only four and the rest of the ashhur have five nights.
so ashhur all haram are about four days long each and they are four.they come in pairs,this is what the test shows and often they are devided by a pair of regular shahers not months dont make the mistake of thinking a shaher is month.
it is a shaher ,the days and nights where one cannot see the mooon between the ahillat.
then we need to know when is ramadan.for it is true that the ashhur all haram start after the shaher of ramadan and that is what i have noticed.so know how do we know that ramadan has started.
or it is the coming shaher .
the quran tells us that the shaher of ramadan is a shaher of bayinat that we will be signaled with many signs to know it is it.
so let us see,since it is only a five night and day shaher as all the other regular shahers then it must be evident during the days that come before it that will give us all those signs.that it will be clear that this month is different.
so let us see together what are those signs.
1-the rain will start to fall again after a long summer.ramadan
2 change of season.
3-plants beggin to grow again.
4-the days stop form getting bigger and they start to get smaller.
5-one big moon in the sky and i mean really big. the biggest you can find all year round.the collor is different too.
6-the sun is different during sun set even after it sets those collors are differnt and the sun have a round shape we can see,with out hurting our eyes.it is also the biggest sun we can ever see.
7- all this in a few days likesome twenty days.or twenty six and can be found together with in that time frame.
6-some call the moon the harvest moon for the fulll moon during that time is full of light,and one can see very clearly.
so we get all those signs and then we know that the time this time when the moon is not there any more for those comming few days it is called the shaher of ramadan.yes five days we are ordered to fast those days without a moon.
during those days is lalayet al qadr.remmember when the quran says,(wa kan kaba qawsayne aw adna)yes between those too cresents when there is no moon to light the night,and there is only darkness it is the shaher.
the thing about those ashhur el hurum and ramadan well they dont change seasons,yes mostly ramadan is in september or october,and the hurum ashhur basically come,in march april and october december.
but do the experiments your selfs dont take my word for it.
inshaalah allah will lead us with the quran and nothing else,every thing else is shurk and will result in many ikhtilaf.
brother please forgive me if i have mistaken or mislead you in any way.
Allah knows best.
