43:18 Women not able to give clear expression to an argument in disputation ?
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dear sister, don't tease him please! we are having a discussion here. thanks
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Friends, how do you see this verse
http//www.submission.org/efarsi/arabic/Surat43_files/43_18.gifWhat! that which is made in ornaments and which in contention is unable to make plain speech!Is God speaking the mind of the then Arabs, or, if we read it with that verse where "two women are needed for the evidence", God is telling us something of His creation?
I see it differently to that.
043.015 Yet they attribute to some of His servants a share with Him (in his godhead)! truly is man a blasphemous ingrate avowed!
043.016 What! has He taken daughters out of what He himself creates, and granted to you sons for choice?
043.017 When news is brought to one of them of (the birth of) what he sets up as a likeness to (Allah) Most Gracious, his face darkens, and he is filled with inward grief!
043.018 Is then one brought up among trinkets, and unable to give a clear account in a dispute (to be associated with Allah)?
043.019 And they make into females angels who themselves serve Allah. Did they witness their creation? Their evidence will be recorded, and they will be called to account!it looks to me that God is warning about making sons and daughters different when they are both His creation and equal, its man that makes them unequal and raises girls like dolls or angels assuming they have no brains but are there for beauty only. verse 18 is saying because a girl is raised does that mean she cannot give a clear account in dispute.
Thats how it reads to me but im sure others may see something different there.
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How about this translation
Is then one brought up among trinkets, and unable to give a clear account in a dispute (to be associated with Allah)?
I can give you the meaning of the verse but I should stop my fingers from typing because I'll receive questions and questions which they will exhaust me
Like Asad and many others are you also taking it as referring to a girl, despite being Arab?
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peace,
Asad
4318 ?What! one who is to be reared for the sake of ornament?" and thereupon he finds himself torn by a vague inner conflict.I don't know how accurate is that translation but I like that! Thanks
I recommend reading Asad's notes along with his translation. I use quranix.net
You will find the pronoun "huwa" is masculine, which completely refutes any reference after the "and" (highlighted in bold for you) referring back to the female. Hence thereformer1's translation is completely null and void.
It is not the first time translations have got it completely wrong. I personally find errors in translations almost every time I study a verse, some of them are minor but some significant.
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I see it differently to that.
it looks to me that God is warning about making sons and daughters different when they are both His creation and equal, its man that makes them unequal and raises girls like dolls or angels assuming they have no brains but are there for beauty only. verse 18 is saying because a girl is raised does that mean she cannot give a clear account in dispute.
Thats how it reads to me but im sure others may see something different there.oh my God !!!!! the verse is not about what you said at all . so Farrrrrrr
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http//haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/043.%20Az%20Zukhraf/43.17a.gif
And when anyone of them is congratulated with news of that which he illustratively ascribed for Ar'Reh'maan,
http//haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/043.%20Az%20Zukhraf/43.17b.gif
his face is veiled blackish. And he is in state of disconcert;
http//haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/043.%20Az%20Zukhraf/43.18.gif
could the one who/son is brought up in the demonstrative pomp and show? And he/the father of newly born daughter is in the vague self arguing perplexity/duality of thoughts of choosing from two alternatives.Verb Imperfect; Third Person; Singular; Masculine; Passive. Root
http//haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/043.%20Az%20Zukhraf/043.%20B%20Az%20Zukhraf.htmSee in what thoughts he is plunged
http//haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/016.%20An%20Nahl/016.%20C1.gif
And when anyone of them is congratulated with news of daughter's birth, his face is veiled blackish. And he is in state of disconcert.
http//haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/016.%20An%20Nahl/16.59.gif
He hides from people considering that as disgrace with what he was congratulated, contemplating
http//haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/016.%20An%20Nahl/16.59a.gif
should he retain the disgrace at the cost of humiliation or conceal that disgrace in the mud.http//haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/016.%20An%20Nahl/016.%20C%20An%20Nahl.htm#1659a
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Then please grant us your wisdom oh great sheikh hail
first you promise that you won't further question!
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You will find the pronoun "huwa" is masculine, which completely refutes any reference after the "and" (highlighted in bold for you) referring back to the female. Hence thereformer1's translation is completely null and void.
don't worry , I've just suggested from him to see different translations, I'm not an english man, so basically I don't need Quran in english .
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http//haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/043.%20Az%20Zukhraf/43.17a.gif
And when anyone of them is congratulated with news of that which he illustratively ascribed for Ar'Reh'maan,
http//haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/043.%20Az%20Zukhraf/43.17b.gif
his face is veiled blackish. And he is in state of disconcert;
http//haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/043.%20Az%20Zukhraf/43.18.gif
could the one who/son is brought up in the demonstrative pomp and show? And he/the father of newly born daughter is in the vague self arguing perplexity/duality of thoughts of choosing from two alternatives.Verb Imperfect; Third Person; Singular; Masculine; Passive. Root
http//haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/043.%20Az%20Zukhraf/043.%20B%20Az%20Zukhraf.htmSee in what thoughts he is plunged
http//haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/016.%20An%20Nahl/016.%20C1.gif
And when anyone of them is congratulated with news of daughter's birth, his face is veiled blackish. And he is in state of disconcert.
http//haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/016.%20An%20Nahl/16.59.gif
He hides from people considering that as disgrace with what he was congratulated, contemplating
http//haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/016.%20An%20Nahl/16.59a.gif
should he retain the disgrace at the cost of humiliation or conceal that disgrace in the mud.http//haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/016.%20An%20Nahl/016.%20C%20An%20Nahl.htm#1659a
Mazhar brother, is that your sacred duty to give loooooong and looooong links to your website with each and every translation of yours?
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Mazhar brother, is that your sacred duty to give loooooong and looooong links to your website with each and every translation of yours?
Qur'aan explains the meanings of the words as well as clearly and distinctly elaborates the concepts discussed in it. Linkage of the verses explaining each other will take you to the correct answer. Just see how clearly the point was described yet people have been saying, many reputed scholars included, that women are weak in arguing and in support bring this verse which has nothing to do with women, a newly born baby rather. Link of continued verses is given to help read the context in continuation, for the one interested to read.
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Qur'aan explains the meanings of the words as well as clearly and distinctly elaborates the concepts discussed in it. Linkage of the verses explaining each other will take you to the correct answer. Just see how clearly the point was described yet people have been saying, many reputed scholars included, that women are weak in arguing and in support bring this verse which has nothing to do with women, a newly born baby rather. Link of continued verses is given to help read the context in continuation, for the one interested to read.
ok, fair enough, but just make sure you split the link in 3 to 4 lines please. thanks
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Like Asad and many others are you also taking it as referring to a girl, despite being Arab?
this is not for you Mazhar
"Look , I will answer someone really wants to understand and learn and give also what he knows."Mazhar
the verse is talking about the girl as they described it (the Arabs before) as a incomplete inside and oustide and she became complete when she wear jewellery and things for her beauty and she didn't get the right to speak or dispute and if someone agree with her and defend her, he will be with God according to their famous saying ( we got boys, and God got girls referring by girls to the angels ).
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the verse is talking about the girl as they described it (the Arabs before) as a incomplete inside and oustide and she became complete when she wear jewellery and things for her beauty and she didn't get the right to speak or dispute and if someone agree with her and defend her, he will be with God according to their famous saying ( we got boys, and God got girls referring by girls to the angels ).
not much different to what I said really, although I did say it is a warning that this is wrong.
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this is not for you Mazhar
"Look , I will answer someone really wants to understand and learn and give also what he knows."Mazhar
the verse is talking about the girl as they described it (the Arabs before) as a incomplete inside and oustide and she became complete when she wear jewellery and things for her beauty and she didn't get the right to speak or dispute and if someone agree with her and defend her, he will be with God according to their famous saying ( we got boys, and God got girls referring by girls to the angels ).
But dear the red underlined word is a Verb Imperfect; Third Person; Singular; Masculine; Passive. Root which is obviously not talking about a newly born girl but is describing a general fact and psyche of majority of fathers about newly born sons. And the person who is in vague perplexity of thought is a particular person because of "Huwa" referring to one whom news of daughter's birth is given. How can one stretch the words of Allah to make them match to the perception of one's own wishful desire?
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But dear the red underlined word is a Verb Imperfect; Third Person; Singular; Masculine; Passive. Root which is obviously not talking about a newly born girl but is describing a general fact and psyche of majority of fathers about newly born sons. And the person who is in vague perplexity of thought is a particular person because of "Huwa" referring to one whom news of daughter's birth is given. How can one stretch the words of Allah to make them match to the perception of one's own wishful desire?
No, you misunderstood .
the red underlined word is referring to the young girls.
