Surah 75:27
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Do you know what "unlettered" means? People who cannot read and write, illiterate, uneducated etc.
Qur'aan is not saying that amongst them are people who cannot read and write. And I have not seen anywhere that an ARAB uses the word Ummi to suggest to anybody that he does not know reading and writing. Bring some quote from somewhere. And consult some dictionaries to know its original and true meanings.
Quran IS saying that amongst them are people who cannot read or write, some are ignorant, illiterate and uneducated, that is exactly what its saying.
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The Literal translation is And from them (are) illiterates/belonging to a nation they do not know The Book except (as) wishes/desires/lies and that they are except assuming/ supposing .
Ali translation is And there are among them illiterates, who know not the Book, but (see therein their own) desires, and they do nothing but conjecture.
Illiterate here you have translated as 'And among Bani Iesraa'eel are such commoners', The next word al Kitab is saying they knew not the book. = they were illiterate, uneducated and didnt know the book.
True Arabs hate using extra words, if the first word meant unlettered, illiterates the next sentence becomes superfluous and wastage of words, a think abhorred by Arabic language. The word is specific Al Kitab not book. Perhaps 90% of Muslim population does not have the knowledge of Al Kitab-Qur'aan except what they have orally heard from others, are they unlettered, illiterates?
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True Arabs hate using extra words, if the first word meant unlettered, illiterates the next sentence becomes superfluous and wastage of words, a think abhorred by Arabic language. The word is specific Al Kitab not book. Perhaps 90% of Muslim population does not have the knowledge of Al Kitab-Qur'aan except what they have orally heard from others, are they unlettered, illiterates?
what do you mean by extra words ? and did you know Arabs ? . Let me remind you that the people who tranlated the meaning of Quran are not Arabs. We know that Quran God sent it Arabic, so we must not translate it, we can give you the meaning of the verse but we can not translate the verse, it is forbidden.
and where did you get this statistics "90% of Muslim population does not have the knoweldge of Al Kitab"? Are you living one of them ?
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True Arabs hate using extra words, if the first word meant unlettered, illiterates the next sentence becomes superfluous and wastage of words, a think abhorred by Arabic language. The word is specific Al Kitab not book. Perhaps 90% of Muslim population does not have the knowledge of Al Kitab-Qur'aan except what they have orally heard from others, are they unlettered, illiterates?
I dont quite understand what you mean by this. This is talking about 2 things, unlettered/illiterate AND they didnt know the book. One can be unlettered/illiterate and still know the Book, remember it wasnt in written form anyway, it was recited, one can recite but not read, as the prophet did.
Its not about the Arabs using extra words, these are Allah's words and He wasnt Arab, true or otherwise. The words are there in Arabic that mean unlettered/illiterate AND didnt know the book. Al Kitab IS 'The Book'.
One can also be 'lettered/literate' but NOT know the book. The verse is clear that there were those who were illiterate AND did NOT know the Book.
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I dont quite understand what you mean by this. This is talking about 2 things, unlettered/illiterate AND they didnt know the book. One can be unlettered/illiterate and still know the Book, remember it wasnt in written form anyway, it was recited, one can recite but not read, as the prophet did.
They were given the Book in written down form.
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They were given the Book in written down form.
But what was the point in that when they couldnt read, were illiterate? if they were given a book and they couldnt read it then there is no blame on them for anything, which is not the case in these verses. ???
how could they have been given the Book, this is Quran we are talking about as The Book, how could they have been given it, In written form, while it was still being revealed?
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But what was the point in that when they couldnt read, were illiterate? if they were given a book and they couldnt read it then there is no blame on them for anything, which is not the case in these verses. ???
how could they have been given the Book, this is Quran we are talking about as The Book, how could they have been given it, In written form, while it was still being revealed?
Where are you dear roaming about. The verse is talking about the People of Book, Jews the posterity of Israel, and they were given Book in written form.
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Where are you dear roaming about. The verse is talking about the People of Book, Jews the posterity of Israel, and they were given Book in written form.
but you said those who were not given the book earlier, thats how you have translated it. I am still talking about 278 here.
Your translation
And among Bani Iesraa'eel are such commoners who do not know the Book, except wishful/hopeful hearsay/conjectural myths made known and popular in society
and/as such that they do nothing except conjecturing/supposing/assumingSeems its YOU that are using extra unnecessary words here.
The verse from Ali
And there are among them illiterates, who know not the Book, but (see therein their own) desires, and they do nothing but conjecture.Now you are saying they were given the book but were 'commoners' who just ignored it. They couldnt READ it, they were illitrate.
The Ali translation also was 'know' not, it is not tranlsated as 'knew' not which would imply 'past' as in a previous book, this is talking about THIS book, Quran as you also said earlier.
I think I need to lie down.
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but you said those who were not given the book earlier, thats how you have translated it. I am still talking about 278 here.
Your translation
And among Bani Iesraa'eel are such commoners who do not know the Book, except wishful/hopeful hearsay/conjectural myths made known and popular in society
and/as such that they do nothing except conjecturing/supposing/assumingYou are mixing up the things 278 and 320 and 7157. 278 is only talking about Bani Israel. 320 talks about two groups, the People of the Messenger and those who were given earlier the Book, Bani Israel.
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why it is not false ? first he wrote "cry" and there is no word there means cry, the second thing he wrote "who is the magician?" and there is no mentioning of any magician in the verse neither in the whole chapter, so it is False.
Saying that someone was making a false translation implies they were willfully making a lie against the quran. That's a big accusation. Do you have evidence that someone was willfully doing so?
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I've said I'm Arab, yet you're asking for a substandiated .
I've said that I've looked for it in "Ibn Abbass" the best interpreters of Quran, yet you're saying that he is guilty .
Are you with a mental disease ? . Let me remind you that every word in your translation in your website is wrong. and one more thing you shouldn't translate Quran word by word.
You're not Arab and you jump giving false statements, you gave interpretation from your own understandings and your own desires and you can't even differ between two words have the same letters. please give it a break. I've had enough of your posts and you will mislead people with you .
Unless you are a scholar of arabic and the quran, your arabic is of your own opinion and your own people.
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Saying that someone was making a false translation implies they were willfully making a lie against the quran. That's a big accusation. Do you have evidence that someone was willfully doing so?
No, I didn't say he was lying but making a mistake can be too dangerous for someone following his translation, and translate the verses of Quran in a wrong way, is too dangerous for him and for the people that will read his translation.
By the way it's forbidden translate Quran word by word and verse by verse, the translator must just give you the meaning of the verse but not translate the verse.
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Unless you are a scholar of arabic and the quran, your arabic is of your own opinion and your own people.
well, I've studied Arabic from birth to now and about Quran I found no problem in understanding the verses and its meanings and the message that God wanted to deliver, let alone that I have the book of the best and the famous interpreters of Quran.
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well, I've studied Arabic from birth to now and about Quran I found no problem in understanding the verses and its meanings and the message that God wanted to deliver, let alone that I have the book of the best and the famous interpreters of Quran.
wow reading and studying from the cradle, im impressed hail ;D
why, and where, is it 'forbidden' to translate Quran word for word?
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wow reading and studying from the cradle, im impressed hail ;D
Is that your new way of verbal Irony ?
why, and where, is it 'forbidden' to translate Quran word for word?
Because you should realize that, for all Muslims, the text you are reading is quite literally the voice of God; because the Qur'an is the direct speech of God in Arabic, translation of the work is seen as blasphemy, as an unforgivable tampering with God's own speech. In addition to this the translators will expand the word of God and make mistakes and the verse will take different meanings (look at the huge number of translator), let alone that some sentences with a difficult grammar and situation and the translator will be wrong in his translation because Grammar play a good rule in the meaning of the verse. That's why you should just translate the meaning of the verse not the verse word by word .
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Is that your new way of verbal Irony ?
No I dont think that's irony D
Because you should realize that, for all Muslims, the text you are reading is quite literally the voice of God; because the Qur'an is the direct speech of God in Arabic, translation of the work is seen as blasphemy, as an unforgivable tampering with God's own speech. In addition to this the translators will expand the word of God and make mistakes and the verse will take different meanings (look at the huge number of translator), let alone that some sentences with a difficult grammar and situation and the translator will be wrong in his translation because Grammar play a good rule in the meaning of the verse. That's why you should just translate the meaning of the verse not the verse word by word .
I totally understand this is the word of God, I have no doubts about that. I dont agree that 'translation' is blesphemay though as Quran IS for all and God knows ALL cannot speak Arabic, so for us lesser mortals not born Arabic speaking we have to have a 'translation' of those words. Translating 'the meaning' is more of a blasphemy if you think about it, as we are getting the 'translators' meaning of the words. Looking at, and trying to understand the actual 'words' in Arabic does give a better understanding 'of the meaning' though.
I asked also where it was forbidden, you answered why but not where, seems the answer is that it is not forbidden in Quran so does that mean you are making haram that which God did not make haram?
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No I dont think that's irony D
so what did you think it ? be frank
I totally understand this is the word of God, I have no doubts about that. I dont agree that 'translation' is blesphemay though as Quran IS for all and God knows ALL cannot speak Arabic, so for us lesser mortals not born Arabic speaking we have to have a 'translation' of those words. Translating 'the meaning' is more of a blasphemy if you think about it, as we are getting the 'translators' meaning of the words. Looking at, and trying to understand the actual 'words' in Arabic does give a better understanding 'of the meaning' though.
Yes, that's why you should just take the meaning in your own language and by learning Arabic you'll take the verse word by word because at this time, you'll approach what you take as a meanings with what God said. Anyways the age of our existence I think make it necessary to translate it like this way and God knows.
I asked also where it was forbidden, you answered why but not where, seems the answer is that it is not forbidden in Quran so does that mean you are making haram that which God did not make haram?
I said it is forbidden from Islamic point of view because you changed the size of the verse and the change of the words also, I didn't say it is Haram. it can be "" and that's what I mean by forbidden. The "" is not the Haram.
about your question where, I think this verse will answer you) ُ (115)
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so what did you think it ? be frank
Lets forget that one as I think we could be here all week trying to sort that out ;DYes, that's why you should just take the meaning in your own language and by learning Arabic you'll take the verse word by word because at this time, you'll approach what you take as a meanings with what God said. Anyways the age of our existence I think make it necessary to translate it like this way and God knows.
To get the 'meaning' in my language is better for me to look at the 'words' in Arabic and the 'translation' in English of those words, that means I can put together those words and their English 'meanings' so I can understand.
There is enough fighting between native Arab speaking 'scholars' what is the 'meaning' in the words anyway, so in a tranlation of the 'meaning' I am getting whoevers 'interpretation' of that 'meaning' and they can all be different as we have seen. Also to translate the 'meaning' of the verses the translator needs to be perfect in Arabic and English to get that 'meaning' across IN English.
I said it is forbidden from Islamic point of view because you changed the size of the verse and the change of the words also, I didn't say it is Haram. it can be "" and that's what I mean by forbidden. The "" is not the Haram.
you said forbidden. now you say forbidden from and Islamic viewpoint. I haven't changed ANYTHING so please dont accuse me of changing the size of the verse or the words. You stated it is forbidden to translate word by word and I asked you why and where.Forbidden = haram
unadvisable = makroohabout your question where, I think this verse will answer you
) ُ (115)
No it doesnt as you have posted the verse number only and not which sura it is from.
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ok found the sura
None can change His words has nothing to do with tranlsating them but has a lot to do with how they are 'manipulated' as they are constantly BY Arab speakers. However it is translated the Arabic words remain the same but there is clear warning that this manipulation of the words has been done before by Jews and Christians. God said the very same thing in Torah that His words will have nothing added to or taken away from, but what came from the tongues of those in charge DID change the words or the meanings, as it does now.
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Lets forget that one as I think we could be here all week trying to sort that out ;D
I just want from you to be frank in what you said as a verbal irony . if you don't want, fine. I'll not blame you.
To get the 'meaning' in my language is better for me to look at the 'words' in Arabic and the 'translation' in English of those words, that means I can put together those words and their English 'meanings' so I can understand.
that's good ,but I prefer take the meanings of the words and let the words of the verse until you learn Arabic.It'll be better for my opinion .
There is enough fighting between native Arab speaking 'scholars' what is the 'meaning' in the words anyway, so in a tranlation of the 'meaning' I am getting whoevers 'interpretation' of that 'meaning' and they can all be different as we have seen. Also to translate the 'meaning' of the verses the translator needs to be perfect in Arabic and English to get that 'meaning' across IN English.
Yes, I agree . But look at Mazhar, he translated the words without even differ between two words in Arabic have the same letters.
you said forbidden. now you say forbidden from and Islamic viewpoint. I haven't changed ANYTHING so please dont accuse me of changing the size of the verse or the words. You stated it is forbidden to translate word by word and I asked you why and where.
Forbidden = haram
unadvisable = makroohok, so I just gave you the wrong word in english but my aim is to say Makrouh(unadvisable). But forbidden is not Haram in our language . forbidden is "" this word is not Haram and it means that it is restricted or banned. The word Haram is too powerful and there no doubt in it.
No it doesnt as you have posted the verse number only and not which sura it is from.
I posted the name of the surah with the number of the verse, the name of surah is an Arabic .
but don't worry here it is 115(Al-Anam=6). "the Word of your Lord has been fulfilled in truth and in justice. None can change His Words. And He is the All-Hearer, the All-Knower."