Peacemaking and Peacemakers in the Great Reading
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Salam David
There is an interesting thread by Ayman on this subject "introduction to peacefulness" here http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=13069.0.
The Queen of Sheba was running her kingdom peacefully. She was so peaceful Sulaiman never even heard of her. She did not plan to attack or capture Sulaiman?s Kingdom and she was not a threat. When Sulaiman sent the letter to the Queen she sent a messenger with gifts, which I found to be quite a peaceful thing to do. Sulaiman returned the gift and threatened to attack her if she does not march to him.
I personally did not find Sulaiman to be very peaceful.
Every derivative of the root SLM will not include the meaning peace, surrender or surrender to God.
Interestingly one of the Hebrew meanings for the corresponding word is allegiance.
You didn't see how the prophet Solomon actually aimed to close the chance of no war, but make an open door to peace. Anti-peace makers open the door to war and close the door to peace.
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Just one observation about the verses in Arabic, if you don't know Arabic very well please don't write it . as I see this whole verses are full of mistakes and you took your verses from this website
http//www.makaremshirazi.org/persian/library/book.php?bcc=27038&itg=43&bi=285&s=ct >> which is not an Arabic website and the verses there are full of grammatical mistakes let alone spelling mistakes .
the verses are like that
(27) (2 (29) (30) (31) (32) (33) (34) (35
(36) (37) .
(41) (42) (43) (44)
About your translations of the word of "Islam" , sorry to say that the word it is not about peace or peacemaking .
the word "" is a wide peace . And it is also a way of salutation.
the word "" is peace with "fatha" in the "Sin" and "Shada", and typically the use of this world sometimes according to a tention between two nations or a war between two nations who they look for peace. So we say ""
the word "" with "Kasra'ah" in the "Sin" and "Shada " means an armistice .
the word "" means the one who submit to God , because of the act of "" which means(to surrender+to submit+to give up+to back+ to return+ to give your attention+to resign+to succumb...etc ) to the creator.
the word "" means the one who (does, brings, loves, likes, makes) peace .
the word "" means Surrender to God's commands and prohibitions . It is not peacemaking as you claimed.
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Peace all,
6835
From this verse, we can see how "al-muslimeen" are contrasted with "al-moujrimeen"; as "moujrim" is referring to a criminal, opposed to ?muslim? meaning a peacemaker.
Background
- What is deen according to your understanding? Can we implement deen? in http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9597108.0
- What is "islam" in english? in http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9391.0
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When Sulaiman sent the letter to the Queen she sent a messenger with gifts,
You don't know the reason of sending Gifts, so you must not assume .
which I found to be quite a peaceful thing to do. Sulaiman returned the gift and threatened to attack her if she does not march to him.
The sending of gifts was not about peace, try to read the verses and to be specific the dialogue in Quran between the woman and her nation .
Solaiman peace be upon him Threatened to attck because they don't pay attention to his letter which was Islam . They don't want to enter to Islam instead of that she tried to send gifts to see his tendencies (is he looking for their kingdom and settling it and making them slaves or is he looking for peace as he said in his letter ) . after giving a flying opinion try to understand firstly and don't jump.
I personally did not find Sulaiman to be very peaceful.
Really!!!!! and why God chose him to be a prophet ? do you know that prophets are infallible ? .
Sending a letter in the first a place means that he was looking for peace, and the letter was peaceful instead of reading it very careful and trying to know the position of this king on earth(the prophet+king), She sent gifts to this king who was giving everything and he is not in need for these gifts and her aims were to say that we're also in a peace so please try to be away from our kingdom and try to leave us alone, and we all know that he was a prophet, so he must call for "The is no god but God".
Every derivative of the root SLM will not include the meaning peace, surrender or surrender to God.
haha, that's was funny . The real word is ""(Salman) which means the person who is always safe or the one woh is always secure . and the word "" is a (-) zoom of the word (Salman)/ in Arabic language when we want to zoom a word we add a "" in the middle of the word for two reasons one for Irony or mockery , the second reason is for reducing the power of word (look at salman, I said the one who is always safe and there is no one on earth is always safe so we reduce the power of the word to solaiman to say that he is safe only not always ).
Interestingly one of the Hebrew meanings for the corresponding word is allegiance.
is that interesting ???? I don't think so .
P.S You don't know the language of Arabs, so please stop assuming and speaking about the word and their meanings(you'll mislead people).
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You don't know the reason of sending Gifts, so you must not assume .
he did not give a reason, not even an assumed one.The sending of gifts was not about peace, try to read the verses and to be specific the dialogue in Quran between the woman and her nation .
he didnt say it was about peace, he said he thought it was a peaceful thing to do. Try to read and understand before jumping in with what you assume was said. -
he did not give a reason, not even an assumed one.
he didnt say it was about peace, he said he thought it was a peaceful thing to do. Try to read and understand before jumping in with what you assume was said.Read the link that he posted .
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then you should have quoted the link and not the words he said as you were answering them.
ok my " " yay
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Salam David
The omission is mine. The derivative of SLM with the misunderstanding is in the verse you quoted (4816) which is yuslimu_n. This word is not translated as ?submit to god? by sectarian or otherwise. Here the Nomads are being informed that they will have to fight together with the Messenger and the believers another group of people who are powerful but if this group of people surrender then it will not be necessary to fight them.
The Quran puts forward a complete system of adherence to one God with all associated beliefs, advises, rules, activities, prohibitions and punishments, good deeds and rewards. The Quran says this system/deen is complete and names this system as Islam. What Quran teaches is this system of submission/surrender to one god as it is clear from 4130.
Pickthall When his Lord said unto him Surrender! he said I have surrendered to the Lord of the Worlds.
Making peace with others, living a peaceful life or making peace with one?s self are important aspects of adhering to this system but they form only part of this system taught to us by Gods message and not the whole.
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Hi There, former1
The discussion on the meaning of Islam and Muslim is too complex for a believer/follower of false tales which are anti God, anti Islam and anti Muhammad. I havent been on the thread for sometimes so I checked up few of your previous posts and I didnt have to scroll more than 3 posts, surprise, I found you to be a hadithists. Confirming my assumption... where all that anger and stupidity of yours is pouring forth from....and surely you are no reformer.
Since the discussion at hand and the story related to Sulaiman in the Quran is too complex for you or your kind to handle I will give you below 4 Sahih Hadith from infallible Bukhari and all 4 narrated by infallible Abuhuraira for you to ponder over activities of Sulaiman of Hadith literature. While you are at it please find out from your ulema answers for the burning quetions you guys normally fret so much over such as how long the night was, how many minutes spent with each lady, were there any showers, changing sheets or foreplay involved in between etc. Also few posts below your challenge on authentic and false hadith, so go figure which one of the sahihs below "are" the real thing.
I seek protection from my lord from the devils who attribute such false stories to His honorable Messengers and I seek His forgiveness.
Bukhari Vol.4, Book 055, Hadith # 635.
Narated By Abu Huraira The Prophet said, "Solomon (the son of) David said, 'Tonight I will sleep with SEVENTY ladies each of whom will conceive a child who will be a knight fighting for "Allah's Cause.' His companion said, 'If Allah will.' But Solomon did not say so; therefore none of those women got pregnant except one who gave birth to a half child." The Prophet further said, "If the Prophet Solomon had said it (i.e. 'If Allah will' he would have begotten children who would have fought in Allah's Cause." Shuaib and Ibn Abi Az-Zinad said, "Ninety (women) is more correct (than seventy)."
Bukhari Vol. 8, Book 78, Hadith # 634.
Narated By Abu Huraira Allah's Apostle said, "(The Prophet) Solomon once said, 'Tonight I will sleep with NINETY women, each of whom will bring forth a (would-be) cavalier who will fight in Allah's Cause." On this, his companion said to him, "Say Allah willing!" But he did not say Allah willing. Solomon then slept with all the women, but none of them became pregnant but one woman who later delivered a half-man. By Him in Whose Hand Muhammad's soul is, if he (Solomon) had said, 'Allah willing' (all his wives would have brought forth boys) and they would have fought in Allah's Cause as cavaliers."
Volume 4, Book 52, Number 74i Narrated Abu Huraira
Allah's Apostle said, "Once Solomon, son of David said, '(By Allah) Tonight I will have sexual intercourse with one hundred (or ninety-nine) women each of whom will give birth to a knight who will fight in Allah's Cause.' On that a (i.e. if Allah wills) but he did not say, 'Allah willing.' Therefore only one of those women conceived and gave birth to a half-man. By Him in Whose Hands Muhammad's life is, if he had said, "Allah willing', (he would have begotten sons) all of whom would have been knights striving in Allah's Cause."
Volume 9, Book 93, Number 561 Narrated Abu Huraira
Allah's Prophet Solomon who had sixty wives, once said, "Tonight I will have sexual relation (sleep) with all my wives so that each of them will become pregnant and bring forth (a boy who will grow into) a cavalier and will fight in Allah's Cause." So he slept with his wives and none of them (conceived and) delivered (a child) except one who brought a half (body) boy (deformed). Allah's Prophet said, "If Solomon had said; 'If Allah Will,' then each of those women would have delivered a (would-be) cavalier to fight in Allah's Cause." (See Hadith No. 74 A, Vol. 4).
Link <http//www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/fundamentals/hadithsunnah/bukhari/>
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Peace everyone,
Any translation I offer will surely be unrefined, but we're looking at very basic words here.
"Salam" means peace, not surrender. Look at how the great reading uses these words
salam (peace) --> aslama (to make peace) --> muslim (peacemaker)
husna (goodness) --> ahsana (to do good) --> muhsin (good doer)
salih (correct) --> aslaha (to make correct) --> muslih (one who corrects)
garam (crime) --> agrama (to commit crime) --> mugrim (criminal)There's nothing theoretical about the composition of these words.
"Those who surrender" makes less sense than "peacemakers", because people who surrender will never fight, not even in defense. But peacemakers do fight in defense.
320 Say to the people of the book and the commoners, "Would you make peace?" If they make peace then they are guided.
Then, faith can begin
4914 The nomads said, "We have believed." Say, "You have not believed; but say 'We have made peace' so that faith will enter your hearts."
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Hi There, former1
Hi War, ner( in Arabic it is fire ) so you by adding to it War it will be "flamer" .
The discussion on the meaning of Islam and Muslim is too complex for a believer/follower of false tales which are anti God, anti Islam and anti Muhammad.
Hahah, is too complex what a joke >>>>>> I'm native speaker of Arabic . And your false translation of the words have been detected by me . So as I said before keep your ignorance of the Arabic language to your parents and mislead the way you want . I can challenge you, so be carefull ( we don't take knowledge from Ignorants) .
As I see the only person that he is Anti-(God, Islam, Muhammed peace be upon him) is you . You don't know the language so you'll not understand the message, so by definition you're just hallucinating that you're a follower . You don't respect the prophet you said "Muhammed" without peace be upon him, so you must know that Muhammed peace be upon him is the one who God chose to give this Quran . These things show one thing that the only person that follow a false tales is you .
where all that anger and stupidity of yours is pouring forth from....and surely you are no reformer.
they said "when a retarded speaks about wisdom, the wise should kill himself " . As I see you have took Islam from right ...and surely you are a flamer (see above).
Since the discussion at hand and the story related to Sulaiman in the Quran is too complex for you or your kind to handle
Aha , Really !!! and who are you to interpret a verse ? and how do you can interpret a verse ? are Angels visiting you and interpret the verses for you ? I think I should remind you that Quran is an Arabic, so the first persons allowed to give the meanings are the arabs theirselves.
I seek protection from my lord from the devils who attribute such false stories to His honorable Messengers and I seek His forgiveness.
Ah, intersting you have distorted what God said (he ordered us to seek protection from Satan) and you're seeking refuge from human which is a creature like you and God has glorified this kind of creature.
Bukhari Vol.4, Book 055, Hadith # 635.
Narated By Abu Huraira The Prophet said, "Solomon (the son of) David said, 'Tonight I will sleep with SEVENTY ladies each of whom will conceive a child who will be a knight fighting for "Allah's Cause.' His companion said, 'If Allah will.' But Solomon did not say so; therefore none of those women got pregnant except one who gave birth to a half child." The Prophet further said, "If the Prophet Solomon had said it (i.e. 'If Allah will' he would have begotten children who would have fought in Allah's Cause." Shuaib and Ibn Abi Az-Zinad said, "Ninety (women) is more correct (than seventy)."
Bukhari Vol. 8, Book 78, Hadith # 634.
Narated By Abu Huraira Allah's Apostle said, "(The Prophet) Solomon once said, 'Tonight I will sleep with NINETY women, each of whom will bring forth a (would-be) cavalier who will fight in Allah's Cause." On this, his companion said to him, "Say Allah willing!" But he did not say Allah willing. Solomon then slept with all the women, but none of them became pregnant but one woman who later delivered a half-man. By Him in Whose Hand Muhammad's soul is, if he (Solomon) had said, 'Allah willing' (all his wives would have brought forth boys) and they would have fought in Allah's Cause as cavaliers."
Volume 4, Book 52, Number 74i Narrated Abu Huraira
Allah's Apostle said, "Once Solomon, son of David said, '(By Allah) Tonight I will have sexual intercourse with one hundred (or ninety-nine) women each of whom will give birth to a knight who will fight in Allah's Cause.' On that a (i.e. if Allah wills) but he did not say, 'Allah willing.' Therefore only one of those women conceived and gave birth to a half-man. By Him in Whose Hands Muhammad's life is, if he had said, "Allah willing', (he would have begotten sons) all of whom would have been knights striving in Allah's Cause."
Volume 9, Book 93, Number 561 Narrated Abu Huraira
Allah's Prophet Solomon who had sixty wives, once said, "Tonight I will have sexual relation (sleep) with all my wives so that each of them will become pregnant and bring forth (a boy who will grow into) a cavalier and will fight in Allah's Cause." So he slept with his wives and none of them (conceived and) delivered (a child) except one who brought a half (body) boy (deformed). Allah's Prophet said, "If Solomon had said; 'If Allah Will,' then each of those women would have delivered a (would-be) cavalier to fight in Allah's Cause." (See Hadith No. 74 A, Vol. 4).First of all the 4 hadiths are similar, and the difference are in the number of the wives of Solaiman .
Second of all your answer is in Quran "( (23) ً"
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this is warner
not fireMuhammed was a warner, he came to warn people.
of the 4 hadith you were asked which is sahih and which is not, all you have done is said they are the same but for the number of women. They are ALL SAHIH hadith and ALL by the great abu huraira. Now doesnt that tell you something? How can they ALL be right? Doesnt this make you question abu huraira? doesnt this rule out ALL the other hadith he narated as he cant seem to really remember how many women for this ONE subject?
If not then you are truely among the lost
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peace David,
By "theoretical possibility" I meant what Bro Ayman put forward is theoretically possible. I am not averse to this view, in fact, in a recent article I wrote and have linked to several times, I gave this understanding as an option.
The main problem is, as it stands, the evidence that has been put forward so far is inconclusive. I have also read Bro Ayman's article on it.
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He is Allah, besides Whom there is no god; the King, the Holy, the Giver of peace, the Granter of security, Guardian over all, the Mighty, the Supreme, the Possessor of every greatness Glory be to Allah from what they set up (with Him).
Momin is translated as "believer" but if we translate it as in above verse, our behaviour/role in a society changes dramatically!
I read it as Muman not Mumin and translated it as Trusted. I like your rendering better. I will inshallah make note of it.
Peace,
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the evidence that has been put forward so far is inconclusive.
Peace Wakas,
Let's put it to a test, then. In the great reading, a "muhsin" is a good doer, one who executes "husna". Can this be done without faith? Do atheists and polytheists ever do anything good? Likewise, a "muslih" is one who takes corrective action, one who executes "salih". Can this be done without faith? Do atheists and polytheists ever take corrective action? Naturally, any good they do goes to waste if it's not done for the god. But, goodness and correction are universal concepts that can be understood and executed by anyone.
So what about "surrender"? Should oppressed people surrender? No. They should be peacemakers, but that may involve fighting for the cause of peace. "Surrender" and "submission" mean nothing on their own, they can even mean bad things. Surrendering to oppression is one example, submitting to lust is another. But peace, and peacemaking, are always good. Always. If people make peace for other than the god (to look good, for example), that's their problem, but peacemaking is still the natural obligation.
Now, let's think about it in terms of the time the great reading was sent down. In a multicultural, multi-faith environment, let's say you hear about a new message from the god. According to this new message (227, the god described its adherents, and all previous believers, as peacemakers. Makes good sense, doesn't it? So, the peacemakers want us to join them? Interesting. Now, substitute "surrendering folk" or "submitters" in place of that. What do you have? Unless you add "surrendering to the god" or "submitting to the god", you don't have much. When people heard about "muslimun" they didn't have to ask what it meant, because peace and those who make it are known everywhere by everyone.
I'm just saying that we should think about it using these kinds of tests, but I understand your view that nothing is concrete so far.
Finally, let's compare peacemaking (islam) to faith (iman), shall we?
In the great reading, does anyone wonder about peacemaking/islam? No. But faith is misunderstood or unknown by some
4914 The nomads said, "We have believed." Say, "You have not believed; but say 'We have made peace' so that faith will enter your hearts."
4252 As such, we inspired to you a revelation of our command. You did not know of the book or faith, yet we made it a light with which we guide.
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Are you trying to demonstrate that you can copy and paste definitions offered by sectarians on other public forums?
http//ejabat.google.com/ejabat/thread?tid=765869b02ce2ca93&pli=1
Wonderful...
The best part about your plagiarized breakdown is that it proves that "islam" means peacemaking, not submission/surrender. In order to define "islam" your source used "istaslam", which is a different derivative of the root s-l-m (3726). Very amusing, thank you.
