Peacemaking and Peacemakers in the Great Reading
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he did not give a reason, not even an assumed one.
he didnt say it was about peace, he said he thought it was a peaceful thing to do. Try to read and understand before jumping in with what you assume was said.Read the link that he posted .
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then you should have quoted the link and not the words he said as you were answering them.
ok my " " yay
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Salam David
The omission is mine. The derivative of SLM with the misunderstanding is in the verse you quoted (4816) which is yuslimu_n. This word is not translated as ?submit to god? by sectarian or otherwise. Here the Nomads are being informed that they will have to fight together with the Messenger and the believers another group of people who are powerful but if this group of people surrender then it will not be necessary to fight them.
The Quran puts forward a complete system of adherence to one God with all associated beliefs, advises, rules, activities, prohibitions and punishments, good deeds and rewards. The Quran says this system/deen is complete and names this system as Islam. What Quran teaches is this system of submission/surrender to one god as it is clear from 4130.
Pickthall When his Lord said unto him Surrender! he said I have surrendered to the Lord of the Worlds.
Making peace with others, living a peaceful life or making peace with one?s self are important aspects of adhering to this system but they form only part of this system taught to us by Gods message and not the whole.
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Hi There, former1
The discussion on the meaning of Islam and Muslim is too complex for a believer/follower of false tales which are anti God, anti Islam and anti Muhammad. I havent been on the thread for sometimes so I checked up few of your previous posts and I didnt have to scroll more than 3 posts, surprise, I found you to be a hadithists. Confirming my assumption... where all that anger and stupidity of yours is pouring forth from....and surely you are no reformer.
Since the discussion at hand and the story related to Sulaiman in the Quran is too complex for you or your kind to handle I will give you below 4 Sahih Hadith from infallible Bukhari and all 4 narrated by infallible Abuhuraira for you to ponder over activities of Sulaiman of Hadith literature. While you are at it please find out from your ulema answers for the burning quetions you guys normally fret so much over such as how long the night was, how many minutes spent with each lady, were there any showers, changing sheets or foreplay involved in between etc. Also few posts below your challenge on authentic and false hadith, so go figure which one of the sahihs below "are" the real thing.
I seek protection from my lord from the devils who attribute such false stories to His honorable Messengers and I seek His forgiveness.
Bukhari Vol.4, Book 055, Hadith # 635.
Narated By Abu Huraira The Prophet said, "Solomon (the son of) David said, 'Tonight I will sleep with SEVENTY ladies each of whom will conceive a child who will be a knight fighting for "Allah's Cause.' His companion said, 'If Allah will.' But Solomon did not say so; therefore none of those women got pregnant except one who gave birth to a half child." The Prophet further said, "If the Prophet Solomon had said it (i.e. 'If Allah will' he would have begotten children who would have fought in Allah's Cause." Shuaib and Ibn Abi Az-Zinad said, "Ninety (women) is more correct (than seventy)."
Bukhari Vol. 8, Book 78, Hadith # 634.
Narated By Abu Huraira Allah's Apostle said, "(The Prophet) Solomon once said, 'Tonight I will sleep with NINETY women, each of whom will bring forth a (would-be) cavalier who will fight in Allah's Cause." On this, his companion said to him, "Say Allah willing!" But he did not say Allah willing. Solomon then slept with all the women, but none of them became pregnant but one woman who later delivered a half-man. By Him in Whose Hand Muhammad's soul is, if he (Solomon) had said, 'Allah willing' (all his wives would have brought forth boys) and they would have fought in Allah's Cause as cavaliers."
Volume 4, Book 52, Number 74i Narrated Abu Huraira
Allah's Apostle said, "Once Solomon, son of David said, '(By Allah) Tonight I will have sexual intercourse with one hundred (or ninety-nine) women each of whom will give birth to a knight who will fight in Allah's Cause.' On that a (i.e. if Allah wills) but he did not say, 'Allah willing.' Therefore only one of those women conceived and gave birth to a half-man. By Him in Whose Hands Muhammad's life is, if he had said, "Allah willing', (he would have begotten sons) all of whom would have been knights striving in Allah's Cause."
Volume 9, Book 93, Number 561 Narrated Abu Huraira
Allah's Prophet Solomon who had sixty wives, once said, "Tonight I will have sexual relation (sleep) with all my wives so that each of them will become pregnant and bring forth (a boy who will grow into) a cavalier and will fight in Allah's Cause." So he slept with his wives and none of them (conceived and) delivered (a child) except one who brought a half (body) boy (deformed). Allah's Prophet said, "If Solomon had said; 'If Allah Will,' then each of those women would have delivered a (would-be) cavalier to fight in Allah's Cause." (See Hadith No. 74 A, Vol. 4).
Link <http//www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/fundamentals/hadithsunnah/bukhari/>
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Peace everyone,
Any translation I offer will surely be unrefined, but we're looking at very basic words here.
"Salam" means peace, not surrender. Look at how the great reading uses these words
salam (peace) --> aslama (to make peace) --> muslim (peacemaker)
husna (goodness) --> ahsana (to do good) --> muhsin (good doer)
salih (correct) --> aslaha (to make correct) --> muslih (one who corrects)
garam (crime) --> agrama (to commit crime) --> mugrim (criminal)There's nothing theoretical about the composition of these words.
"Those who surrender" makes less sense than "peacemakers", because people who surrender will never fight, not even in defense. But peacemakers do fight in defense.
320 Say to the people of the book and the commoners, "Would you make peace?" If they make peace then they are guided.
Then, faith can begin
4914 The nomads said, "We have believed." Say, "You have not believed; but say 'We have made peace' so that faith will enter your hearts."
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Hi There, former1
Hi War, ner( in Arabic it is fire ) so you by adding to it War it will be "flamer" .
The discussion on the meaning of Islam and Muslim is too complex for a believer/follower of false tales which are anti God, anti Islam and anti Muhammad.
Hahah, is too complex what a joke >>>>>> I'm native speaker of Arabic . And your false translation of the words have been detected by me . So as I said before keep your ignorance of the Arabic language to your parents and mislead the way you want . I can challenge you, so be carefull ( we don't take knowledge from Ignorants) .
As I see the only person that he is Anti-(God, Islam, Muhammed peace be upon him) is you . You don't know the language so you'll not understand the message, so by definition you're just hallucinating that you're a follower . You don't respect the prophet you said "Muhammed" without peace be upon him, so you must know that Muhammed peace be upon him is the one who God chose to give this Quran . These things show one thing that the only person that follow a false tales is you .
where all that anger and stupidity of yours is pouring forth from....and surely you are no reformer.
they said "when a retarded speaks about wisdom, the wise should kill himself " . As I see you have took Islam from right ...and surely you are a flamer (see above).
Since the discussion at hand and the story related to Sulaiman in the Quran is too complex for you or your kind to handle
Aha , Really !!! and who are you to interpret a verse ? and how do you can interpret a verse ? are Angels visiting you and interpret the verses for you ? I think I should remind you that Quran is an Arabic, so the first persons allowed to give the meanings are the arabs theirselves.
I seek protection from my lord from the devils who attribute such false stories to His honorable Messengers and I seek His forgiveness.
Ah, intersting you have distorted what God said (he ordered us to seek protection from Satan) and you're seeking refuge from human which is a creature like you and God has glorified this kind of creature.
Bukhari Vol.4, Book 055, Hadith # 635.
Narated By Abu Huraira The Prophet said, "Solomon (the son of) David said, 'Tonight I will sleep with SEVENTY ladies each of whom will conceive a child who will be a knight fighting for "Allah's Cause.' His companion said, 'If Allah will.' But Solomon did not say so; therefore none of those women got pregnant except one who gave birth to a half child." The Prophet further said, "If the Prophet Solomon had said it (i.e. 'If Allah will' he would have begotten children who would have fought in Allah's Cause." Shuaib and Ibn Abi Az-Zinad said, "Ninety (women) is more correct (than seventy)."
Bukhari Vol. 8, Book 78, Hadith # 634.
Narated By Abu Huraira Allah's Apostle said, "(The Prophet) Solomon once said, 'Tonight I will sleep with NINETY women, each of whom will bring forth a (would-be) cavalier who will fight in Allah's Cause." On this, his companion said to him, "Say Allah willing!" But he did not say Allah willing. Solomon then slept with all the women, but none of them became pregnant but one woman who later delivered a half-man. By Him in Whose Hand Muhammad's soul is, if he (Solomon) had said, 'Allah willing' (all his wives would have brought forth boys) and they would have fought in Allah's Cause as cavaliers."
Volume 4, Book 52, Number 74i Narrated Abu Huraira
Allah's Apostle said, "Once Solomon, son of David said, '(By Allah) Tonight I will have sexual intercourse with one hundred (or ninety-nine) women each of whom will give birth to a knight who will fight in Allah's Cause.' On that a (i.e. if Allah wills) but he did not say, 'Allah willing.' Therefore only one of those women conceived and gave birth to a half-man. By Him in Whose Hands Muhammad's life is, if he had said, "Allah willing', (he would have begotten sons) all of whom would have been knights striving in Allah's Cause."
Volume 9, Book 93, Number 561 Narrated Abu Huraira
Allah's Prophet Solomon who had sixty wives, once said, "Tonight I will have sexual relation (sleep) with all my wives so that each of them will become pregnant and bring forth (a boy who will grow into) a cavalier and will fight in Allah's Cause." So he slept with his wives and none of them (conceived and) delivered (a child) except one who brought a half (body) boy (deformed). Allah's Prophet said, "If Solomon had said; 'If Allah Will,' then each of those women would have delivered a (would-be) cavalier to fight in Allah's Cause." (See Hadith No. 74 A, Vol. 4).First of all the 4 hadiths are similar, and the difference are in the number of the wives of Solaiman .
Second of all your answer is in Quran "( (23) ً"
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this is warner
not fireMuhammed was a warner, he came to warn people.
of the 4 hadith you were asked which is sahih and which is not, all you have done is said they are the same but for the number of women. They are ALL SAHIH hadith and ALL by the great abu huraira. Now doesnt that tell you something? How can they ALL be right? Doesnt this make you question abu huraira? doesnt this rule out ALL the other hadith he narated as he cant seem to really remember how many women for this ONE subject?
If not then you are truely among the lost
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peace David,
By "theoretical possibility" I meant what Bro Ayman put forward is theoretically possible. I am not averse to this view, in fact, in a recent article I wrote and have linked to several times, I gave this understanding as an option.
The main problem is, as it stands, the evidence that has been put forward so far is inconclusive. I have also read Bro Ayman's article on it.
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He is Allah, besides Whom there is no god; the King, the Holy, the Giver of peace, the Granter of security, Guardian over all, the Mighty, the Supreme, the Possessor of every greatness Glory be to Allah from what they set up (with Him).
Momin is translated as "believer" but if we translate it as in above verse, our behaviour/role in a society changes dramatically!
I read it as Muman not Mumin and translated it as Trusted. I like your rendering better. I will inshallah make note of it.
Peace,
Edip -
the evidence that has been put forward so far is inconclusive.
Peace Wakas,
Let's put it to a test, then. In the great reading, a "muhsin" is a good doer, one who executes "husna". Can this be done without faith? Do atheists and polytheists ever do anything good? Likewise, a "muslih" is one who takes corrective action, one who executes "salih". Can this be done without faith? Do atheists and polytheists ever take corrective action? Naturally, any good they do goes to waste if it's not done for the god. But, goodness and correction are universal concepts that can be understood and executed by anyone.
So what about "surrender"? Should oppressed people surrender? No. They should be peacemakers, but that may involve fighting for the cause of peace. "Surrender" and "submission" mean nothing on their own, they can even mean bad things. Surrendering to oppression is one example, submitting to lust is another. But peace, and peacemaking, are always good. Always. If people make peace for other than the god (to look good, for example), that's their problem, but peacemaking is still the natural obligation.
Now, let's think about it in terms of the time the great reading was sent down. In a multicultural, multi-faith environment, let's say you hear about a new message from the god. According to this new message (227, the god described its adherents, and all previous believers, as peacemakers. Makes good sense, doesn't it? So, the peacemakers want us to join them? Interesting. Now, substitute "surrendering folk" or "submitters" in place of that. What do you have? Unless you add "surrendering to the god" or "submitting to the god", you don't have much. When people heard about "muslimun" they didn't have to ask what it meant, because peace and those who make it are known everywhere by everyone.
I'm just saying that we should think about it using these kinds of tests, but I understand your view that nothing is concrete so far.
Finally, let's compare peacemaking (islam) to faith (iman), shall we?
In the great reading, does anyone wonder about peacemaking/islam? No. But faith is misunderstood or unknown by some
4914 The nomads said, "We have believed." Say, "You have not believed; but say 'We have made peace' so that faith will enter your hearts."
4252 As such, we inspired to you a revelation of our command. You did not know of the book or faith, yet we made it a light with which we guide.
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Are you trying to demonstrate that you can copy and paste definitions offered by sectarians on other public forums?
http//ejabat.google.com/ejabat/thread?tid=765869b02ce2ca93&pli=1
Wonderful...
The best part about your plagiarized breakdown is that it proves that "islam" means peacemaking, not submission/surrender. In order to define "islam" your source used "istaslam", which is a different derivative of the root s-l-m (3726). Very amusing, thank you.
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Are you trying to demonstrate that you can copy and paste definitions offered by sectarians on other public forums?
I gave you this answer to translate it and to understand the difference between the word peacemaking and submission from an Arabic view and then from A Fiqh view . But as I see you like your answer which is not right .
The best part about your plagiarized breakdown is that it proves that "islam" means peacemaking, not submission/surrender. In order to define "islam" your source used "istaslam", which is a different derivative of the root s-l-m (3726). Very amusing, thank you.
No, it doesn't mean peacemaking, the root of the verb is " " and it is a derivative of the first root of this word which is " " . You don't know the Arabic language so stay away from giving wrong interpretation of the arabic words .
if you think that you do know Arabic, I'm challenging you .
what is really funny and amusing is finding people speak chinese language, but someone jumps from the crowd and say no it is japanes language or korean language.
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the root of the verb is " "
What you're saying is total nonsense. "The root of the verb is 'istaslam'" is like saying "The root of the verb is TO SURRENDER", which is already a verb and not a root at all. You're arrogance drove you to copy and paste some bogus jurisprudence from the same hoodlums and marauders that effectively distorted every other aspect of the truth in lying about the great reading. Nice work.
The source you ripped off states, and I quote ...
"Islam in the language is Istaslam" = "Islam in the language is surrender"
This proves my point. In order to define "islam" according to the sectarian view, you have to use a different derivative of s-l-m. You completely evaded the fact that in the great reading the word "islam" is the action of "salam"
"Salam" means peace, not surrender. Look at how the great reading uses these words
salam (peace) --> aslama (to make peace) --> muslim (peacemaker)
husna (goodness) --> ahsana (to do good) --> muhsin (good doer)
salih (correct) --> aslaha (to make correct) --> muslih (one who corrects)
garam (crime) --> agrama (to commit crime) --> mugrim (criminal)Surrender is meaningless on its own, while peacemaking is not.
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What you're saying is total nonsense. "The root of the verb is 'istaslam'" is like saying "The root of the verb is TO SURRENDER", which is already a verb and not a root at all. You're arrogance drove you to copy and paste some bogus jurisprudence from the same hoodlums and marauders that effectively distorted every other aspect of the truth in lying about the great reading. Nice work.
The source you ripped off states, and I quote ... "Islam in the language is Istaslam" = "Islam in the language is surrender"you don't know nothing about Arabic . The word Islam is the act of giving up(emotionaly and physically) to your creator.
The only nonsense I see is what you said . I'm a native speaker of Arabic not you and I've learned it from primary school and I'm still let me remind you I've studied my language 12 years let alone that I heard it every day.And of course you're not going to show me my language .
This proves my point. In order to define "islam" according to the sectarian view, you have to use a different derivative of s-l-m. You completely evaded the fact that in the great reading the word "islam" is the action of "salam"
Islam is "Inkiyade li Awamere lahi wa nawahih" means " means Surrender to God's commands and prohibitions ".Typically in english is the act of "(to surrender+to submit+to give up+to back+ to return+ to give your attention+to resign+to succumb...etc ) to the creator which make its origin from the verb "" and his derivative " " .
Surrender is meaningless on its own, while peacemaking is not.
it's meaningless for you as a non-speaker of arabic . Peacemking is a word created by your own desires, Satan is whispering in your ears.
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Peace brother Wakas,
Also, I do not think your rendering of Solomon's story is entirely correct, e.g.
No. The message she receives tells them "come to me/Me as muslimeen".
Maybe there is no mention of "peace" because this is not even relevant?
Are you sure? See M. Asad's understanding, www.quranix.net
Is this likely considering Solomon was unaware of who they were? 2722-28. He did not even know how they would react to his letter. Also, not only did Sheba not react in a hostile manner, her action throughout was not of a war-mongerer.Here is what the people of the queen said
Here is the meaning of the word "ba's" in the passage (from Lisan Alarab)
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Translation
"Ba's" is extreme in war, war, torture.So "ulu ba's"/ would literally mean "those with extreme war", "those with war", "those with torture". Doesn't sound peaceful to me. It sounds like they were literally a warring nation. So instead of becoming a peacemaking nation they decided to give Solomon a bribe to let them be a bully. The queen's statement actually shows that she only cared about the elite and not her people.
It is like if back at school the bully bribed you with a pack of gum if you tried to stop him from being a bully and beat up other kids.
Peace,
Ayman
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Here is the meaning of the word "ba's" in the passage (from Lisan Alarab)
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Translation
"Ba's" is extreme in war, war, torture.So "ulu ba's"/ would literally mean "those with extreme war", "those with war", "those with torture". Doesn't sound peaceful to me. It sounds like they were literally a warring nation.
I didn't know this, hence my poor translation. This strengthens the point regarding 4816
4816 Say to the nomads who stayed behind, "You will be called on to a people of extreme war, to fight them, unless they make peace."
It's not good enough for them to surrender, they have to "make peace" and give up their warmongering. What if they surrender and stockpile armaments in the meantime? Making peace is something that lasts, so the peacemakers/muslimun use their strength against tyranny. Solomon was a wonderful example. As far as I know, the name comes from the Hebrew Shlomo, related to Shalom, meaning one who is of peace, right?
Peace,
-David
