What about non-Muslims that believe in God?
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look i'm going to give you my last words
Alhamdulillah!!! bravoany one not believing in the prophet peace be upon him is not going to be ok after his death , God has swore by the life of the prophet " Al-Hijr72. Verily, by your life (O Muhammad م, in their wild intoxication, they were wandering blindly. "
Who said because we dont follow made up hadith that we dont 'believe' in the prophet?? Of course we believe in the prophet, we are muslims. ???
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Who said because we dont follow made up hadith that we dont 'believe' in the prophet?? Of course we believe in the prophet, we are muslims. ???
You are saying that the prophet is only for deliver the message, so your faith is not as it is supposed to be .
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You are saying that the prophet is only for deliver the message, so your faith is not as it is supposed to be .
Allah said that actually, im sure you know the verses so I wont post them for the millionth time as im sure you will manage to twist them to mean something totally different in line with hadith. My faith is my business, it is not the same as yours because mine comes from Allah and Quran.
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Allah said that actually, im sure you know the verses so I wont post them for the millionth time as im sure you will manage to twist them to mean something totally different in line with hadith. My faith is my business, it is not the same as yours because mine comes from Allah and Quran.
Yes, I know the verse from fifth grade .
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I am of the opinion that the criteria for salvation for "any human" is given in Surah Al-Asr (103) where God himsels swears by time. It is simple to understand
- By the token of time
- Mankind is in Loss
- Except Those who believe, Those who do righteous deeds, Those speak the truth, and those who are patient
Belief in this verse is simply to believe in one GOD alone without any partners whatsoever. I dont think salvation requires any spiritual connection with any of the prophets or messengers. For e.g Unitarian christians dont believe Jesus was God or son of God. They believe in ONE GOD only and that Jesus was sent by that God as a messenger. Having said this, if these people are not following their life the way it is prescribed in the Quran, they will be questioned about it but as long as they fulfill the requirements given in verse 4, they are on the right path.
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if you know the verses why do you ignore them then and claim something else?
I am not ignoring the and if I have said why you'll be creating threads and insulting me, so I prefer from now and over avoid speaking with you in Quran as it seems that you don't differ black from white .
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I am not ignoring the and if I have said why you'll be creating threads and insulting me, so I prefer from now and over avoid speaking with you in Quran as it seems that you don't differ black from white .
You are the one creating threads all over this board and insulting people. You have to avoid speaking to me and a few others because you are fighting a losing battle here and you will never win any argument against Quran Only. And if you think for one second that because you dont reply that I will stop finding holes in your arguments you are very very mistaken.
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You are the one creating threads all over this board and insulting people. You have to avoid speaking to me and a few others because you are fighting a losing battle here and you will never win any argument against Quran Only. And if you think for one second that because you dont reply that I will stop finding holes in your arguments you are very very mistaken.
Yes , go ahead find mistakes, I'll learn from them . But are you going to learn from your ignorance ? No .
As for win, I already won .
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For that you need to reflect what that "creed" was (or can be), which the "Jews" and the "Christians" desired the addressee to follow in order to be appeased.
To me that creed seems to be "my way or the highway" or "either you are with us or against us"... i.e. enforcing on others one's own ego/demons/traditions/gods.
Dear abdalquran
Please explain the harmony of 262 and 385 and whilst you are at it, what would you say about this ayat
2135 AND THEY say, "Be jews" - or, "Christians" - "and you shall be on the right path." Say "Nay, but the creed of Abraham, who turned away from all that is false, and was not of those who ascribe divinity to aught beside God."
Furthermore
2120 For, never will the jews be pleased with thee. nor yet the Christians, unless thou follow their own creeds. Say "Behold, God's guidance is the only true guidance." And, indeed, if thou shouldst follow their errant views after all the knowledge that has come unto thee. thou wouldst have none to protect thee from God, and none to bring thee succour.
Peace
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Its interesting to read everyone's opinions. I think that anyone who believes in God and only God will be saved. I don't think that a non-Muslim who believes in God only 'will burn in hell'. I believe this, because the Quran says, see below. It is as clear as day.
Those who believe, and those who are Jewish, and the Sabiens, and the Nazarenes*; whoever of them believes in God and the Last Day and does good works, then they will have nothing to fear nor will they grieve.
I once had a converstation with a Muslim person, and when I asked if my family (who are non-Muslim but believe in God) would go to heaven, the person would not say yes. I was bewildered as how someone who believes in God and does good things as humanely as possible would not get accepted into heaven because they're not Muslim.
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Its interesting to read everyone's opinions. I think that anyone who believes in God and only God will be saved. I don't think that a non-Muslim who believes in God only 'will burn in hell'. I believe this, because the Quran says, see below. It is as clear as day.
Those who believe, and those who are Jewish, and the Sabiens, and the Nazarenes*; whoever of them believes in God and the Last Day and does good works, then they will have nothing to fear nor will they grieve.
I once had a converstation with a Muslim person, and when I asked if my family (who are non-Muslim but believe in God) would go to heaven, the person would not say yes. I was bewildered as how someone who believes in God and does good things as humanely as possible would not get accepted into heaven because they're not Muslim.
By that translation itself then surely it is self-evident from the first couple of words that all who genuinely believe in/submit to the creator are going to be guided.
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I once had a converstation with a Muslim person, and when I asked if my family (who are non-Muslim but believe in God) would go to heaven, the person would not say yes. I was bewildered as how someone who believes in God and does good things as humanely as possible would not get accepted into heaven because they're not Muslim.
That person is probably a 'Muhammadan' insofar as he believes that one needs to follow and adhere to 'Muhammad's rules' in order to be saved.
You should've asked him, if a Muslim (dont say Muhammadan to him please) murders innocent people, can he still go to heaven? The answer may surprise you!
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Peace,
In Qur'an verses 262 and 569 we are told that 'Those who believe/protect', those that follow the Jewish faith, those that follow Jesus (al-Nazara) and those that are from other traditions (al-Saba'een those that shift as the stars), that all these who believe in God, in a Judgment of their deeds, and uphold and create Peace and Justice, that all these people will be accepted by God (they do not to have fear or grieve).
262 Surely those who acknowledge, and those who are Jewish, and the Nazarenes, and those who follow other religions, any one of them who acknowledge God and the Last day, and uphold and create Peace and Justice (amilu saliha), they will have their reward with their Lord, with no fear over them, nor will they grieve.
Many commentators say that verse 262 is abrogated by 319 and 385 which states that God will only accept al-Islam as a Din/obligation/religion/behaviour, but Qur'anic commentator al-Tabarsi correctly says that Divine promises cannot be abrogated (P. 282-283, volume 1, al-Tabarsi, Majma al-Bayan fi Tafsir al-Qur?an (1070)), the concept of abrogation in the Sunni theory can only be applied to laws, not promises. Also al-Tabari in his Jami al-bayan fi ta'wil al-Qur'an (P. 155-156, volume 2) says that excluding righteous non-Muslims from God's Mercy contradicts His Justice.
What is mostly forgotten is that verse 569, which is almost exactly the same as 262 was revealed AFTER verse 385, which shows that abrogation is not possible with these verses.
So the debate is about what does al-Islam entail, the name of a religion, or a universal behaviour that is based on a few basic concepts which can be done by almost all humans, regardless of their religious affiliation? The word Islam is formIV (aslama) of the Arabic root salama, which is connected to peace, wholeness, welfare, wellbeing, and in formIV has the connation of inclining, accepting and surrendering to these concepts. To understand if islam refers to a specific religion, we must look at how formIV of salama is used in the Qur'an.
Verse 320 says
320 If they debate with you, then say, "I have peacefully accepted myself to God (aslamtu wajhiyalillahi), as well as those who follow me." In addition, say to those who were given the book and the Gentiles "Have you accepted peace (aaslamtum)?" If they have incline to peace (aslamoo) then they are guided; but if they turn away, then you are only to deliver. God is watcher over the servants.
When we look at verse 383 we see that EVERYTHING that exists surrenders to God
383 Is it other than God's system/obligation (Deeni Allahi) that they desire, when those in the heavens and the earth have inclined to peace/acceptance (aslama) to Him voluntarily or by force? To Him they will be returned.
And thus explains that Aslama isn't about a religion, but about a behaviour which entails a few basic concepts.
This is why verse 2111-112 rejects that salvation is based on adhering to a specific religion
2111-112 And they claim, "None will enter Paradise unless he is a Jew or a Christian." This is nothing but their wishful thinking. Say, "Bring your proof if you are truthful." No, whosoever inclines to peace with his whole being for God (aslama wajhahu lillahi), while being a person who improves the state of mankind (muhsinun); he will have his reward with his Developer. There will be no fear over them, nor will they grieve.
We can see a direct relation of the above verses with verses 262 and 569, as they all reject the idea that following a specific religion will make you be accepted by God. The only way not to 'have fear or grief', is at the minimum following the basic concepts of pursuing Peace in the name of God and improve the state of mankind. Both 262, 569 and 2111-112 talk about accepting God, about doing good to mankind (saliha creating peace and justice in 262, 569 and being a person that does good, muhsinum, in 2112) and the understanding of a Judgment (2112 talks about reward, 262 and 569 about the Era of the Hereafter yaum al-Akhira), all of these will take away fear and grief.
We see the same in 4133
4133 Who is better in saying than one who invites to God, and perform deeds that create justice and peace (amilu saliha), and says "I am one of those who gives over to peace (al-Muslimin)."
This is why the Din of God is a natural instinct in mankind as it is not about specifics of any religion, but built in morality
3030 Therefore, devote yourself to the right behaviour/way of life (al-Dinu hanifan). Such is the natural aim (fitrat) of God's creation of humans. And God's law of creation never changes. This is the true way of life (al-Dinu al-Qayyimu) but most people do not know.
We see in 364 that God sees the People of the Book as Muslims if they accept these three basic concepts
- Only serve God.
- Do not associate anything with God.
- Do not take each other as a Rabb/Lord/Master, meaning ALL people are equal and cannot dominate the other based on following a certain religion.
364 Say, "O People of the Book , let us come to a common statement (kalimatin sawain) between us and between you; that we do not serve except God, and do not set up anything at all with Him, and that none of us takes each other as lords (arbaban) beside God." If they turn away, then say, "Bear witness that we have given over to peace and wholeness (muslimun)."
Muhammad Shahrour correctly says
?The verse says ?O People of the Book!? because Jews and Christians were addressed like this during the time of the Prophet! It also contains the ?common terms? shared by them and Muhammad?s followers worship none but God, no shirk and no idolatry, that is, they all rejected rububiyya among themselves. It ends with the admission that if they are not happy about this, they ?at least? should bear witness that he (i.e. Muhammad) is a prophet and that they (i.e. his followers) are (still) al-Muslimeen. But why did Muhammad want to testify that he and his followers are al-Muslimeen? Because he believed that Jews and Christians were themselves Muslims and he saw himself as one of them, even though later on he wanted them to join al-Iman, while he allowed them to keep their faith in Allah?s tauhid (unicity).?
(Page 358, The Qur?an, Morality and Critical Reason; The Essential Muhammad Shahrur by Andreas Christmann and Muhammad Shahrur (2009))In the Qur'an, a clear difference is made between al-Islam and al-Iman. In verse 3335 there is a difference made between al-Muslimun and al-Muminoon, in 4914 we see how al-Islam (aslamna) precedes al-Iman (right after the universalistic verse 4913), showing Al-Iman is a higher stage of al-Islam, but not a separate field or framework.
There are people who will remain in stage 1 (al-Islam) without accepting directly each other's religion or specifics, while the people who believe in ALL Revelations, from the Veda's to the Bible to the Qur'an, these people are in the stage 2 (al-Iman) and have become al-Muninun, people who believe and create security.
This is why al-Salat (4103) and al-Zakat (4162, 231-4) and 'struggling in God's way' (2216) and believing in all the previous Revelations (24, 4136) is only demanded from al-Muminun (the believers/protectors), and not from Muslims who only need to accept God and Judgment and work for peace and righteousness as stated in 262 and 569. But the Qur'an does discuss with the people from other religions not to reject the Qur'an (241) and to believe in it. The Qur'an first acknowledges all the people who follow the basics of 262, and encourages them to uphold the basic values (6151-153) which makes them Muslims, and at the same time it then tries to convince them of the truthful origins of the Qur'an so that they become believers (al-Muminun).
Islam is thus a universal pluralistic concept, and Iman is a specific concept which entails more responsibilities. That God acknowledges and accepts two stages of mankind is logical and fits His Mercy.
For a detailed discussion, please see my essay State of Mankind Introduction to Qur'anic Universalism
http//www.deenresearchcenter.com/Portals/0/State%20of%20Mankind%20Quranic%20Universalism%20by%20AYMol%20(3).pdf
This essay is currently being updated and rewritten for publication at the end of this year.
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Salam and Peace!
When a non-Muslim declares to believe in Allah, he is no more a non-Muslim.
He is a Muslim.To be saved on The Judgement Day, one needs to believe in Allah, The Judgement Day, and do righteous deeds.
-----Certainly, those who believe (in the Quran), and those who are Jews, and Christians, and Sabaeans, whoever believed in Allah and the Last Day and did righteous deeds, shall then have their reward with their Lord, and there shall be no fear upon them, nor shall they grieve. (262)
Believing in Allah---Or---Having Iman in Allah-----is the toughest thing.
Even the people of the last ummah don't have Iman in Allah,---that is why Allah mentioned in the above Verse about the people of the last ummah even.-----They only claim to have Iman in Allah, but they don't really have Iman in Allah. -
What about non-Muslims that believe in God?
What about Mushriks that believe in God?
We all know mushriks during the time of Mohammad also believed a certain Al-Elah (Allah). Considering this fact, I may easily take the following ayat, and claim salvation for all the mushriks who were against Mohammad
6511 A messenger who recites to you God's revelations, which are clear, to lead those who believe and work righteousness out of the darkness into the light. Anyone who believes in God and does good works, He will admit him into paradises with rivers flowing beneath; they abide therein forever. God has granted for him an excellent reward.
Is there any difference between arab mushriks and christians & jews. Don't they both reject Quran to be the word of Allah ??
262ers do not respect the message of Quran, and they just believe what they want to believe.
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Salam and Peace!
What about Mushriks that believe in God?
We all know mushriks during the time of Mohammad also believed a certain Al-Elah (Allah). Considering this fact, I may easily take the following ayat, and claim salvation for all the mushriks who were against Mohammad
6511 A messenger who recites to you God's revelations, which are clear, to lead those who believe and work righteousness out of the darkness into the light. Anyone who believes in God and does good works, He will admit him into paradises with rivers flowing beneath; they abide therein forever. God has granted for him an excellent reward.
Is there any difference between arab mushriks and christians & jews. Don't they both reject Quran to be the word of Allah ??
262ers do not respect the message of Quran, and they just believe what they want to believe.
One who is a mushrik, is a mushrik.
And he is a mushrik, because he does not have Iman in One Ilah.
He takes others also as Ilah.
He only claims to have Iman in Allah, but he ties up his hopes with ghairullahs.These Ilah could be the Prophet, the Sahaba, Sufees, religious scholars, one's own dirty desires, etc.
Allah has announced that He will not forgive Shirk, whatsoever!
Those in 262, if they have Iman in Allah as The Only Ilah, and The Judgement Day,---and then do the righteous deeds, they will be forgiven. And they will never be mushrikeen.
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salam rahenijaat1
my post is not about salvation of mushriks but about interpretition of 262.
a mushrik also has iman in god and in afterlife and apparently there are righteous mushriks having families,ethic values, responsibilities etc...people of far east or even majority of christians who associate Jesus to Allah are good examples of faithful mushriks.
on the other hand, in ayat 262, "not associating partners to Allah" is not mentioned as a minimum requirement for salvation. then one must choose one of the 2 suggestions below
1- either 262 alone is not giving minimum requirements for salvation
2- or faithful and righteous mushriks will also get salvation (which clearly contradicts with Quran)
if you 262ers took the whole message of Quran instead of a single ayat (262) you would easily see that for salvation one must believe in the book and follow the orders in it.
