What about non-Muslims that believe in God?
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Salam and Peace!
When a non-Muslim declares to believe in Allah, he is no more a non-Muslim.
He is a Muslim.To be saved on The Judgement Day, one needs to believe in Allah, The Judgement Day, and do righteous deeds.
-----Certainly, those who believe (in the Quran), and those who are Jews, and Christians, and Sabaeans, whoever believed in Allah and the Last Day and did righteous deeds, shall then have their reward with their Lord, and there shall be no fear upon them, nor shall they grieve. (262)
Believing in Allah---Or---Having Iman in Allah-----is the toughest thing.
Even the people of the last ummah don't have Iman in Allah,---that is why Allah mentioned in the above Verse about the people of the last ummah even.-----They only claim to have Iman in Allah, but they don't really have Iman in Allah. -
What about non-Muslims that believe in God?
What about Mushriks that believe in God?
We all know mushriks during the time of Mohammad also believed a certain Al-Elah (Allah). Considering this fact, I may easily take the following ayat, and claim salvation for all the mushriks who were against Mohammad
6511 A messenger who recites to you God's revelations, which are clear, to lead those who believe and work righteousness out of the darkness into the light. Anyone who believes in God and does good works, He will admit him into paradises with rivers flowing beneath; they abide therein forever. God has granted for him an excellent reward.
Is there any difference between arab mushriks and christians & jews. Don't they both reject Quran to be the word of Allah ??
262ers do not respect the message of Quran, and they just believe what they want to believe.
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Salam and Peace!
What about Mushriks that believe in God?
We all know mushriks during the time of Mohammad also believed a certain Al-Elah (Allah). Considering this fact, I may easily take the following ayat, and claim salvation for all the mushriks who were against Mohammad
6511 A messenger who recites to you God's revelations, which are clear, to lead those who believe and work righteousness out of the darkness into the light. Anyone who believes in God and does good works, He will admit him into paradises with rivers flowing beneath; they abide therein forever. God has granted for him an excellent reward.
Is there any difference between arab mushriks and christians & jews. Don't they both reject Quran to be the word of Allah ??
262ers do not respect the message of Quran, and they just believe what they want to believe.
One who is a mushrik, is a mushrik.
And he is a mushrik, because he does not have Iman in One Ilah.
He takes others also as Ilah.
He only claims to have Iman in Allah, but he ties up his hopes with ghairullahs.These Ilah could be the Prophet, the Sahaba, Sufees, religious scholars, one's own dirty desires, etc.
Allah has announced that He will not forgive Shirk, whatsoever!
Those in 262, if they have Iman in Allah as The Only Ilah, and The Judgement Day,---and then do the righteous deeds, they will be forgiven. And they will never be mushrikeen.
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salam rahenijaat1
my post is not about salvation of mushriks but about interpretition of 262.
a mushrik also has iman in god and in afterlife and apparently there are righteous mushriks having families,ethic values, responsibilities etc...people of far east or even majority of christians who associate Jesus to Allah are good examples of faithful mushriks.
on the other hand, in ayat 262, "not associating partners to Allah" is not mentioned as a minimum requirement for salvation. then one must choose one of the 2 suggestions below
1- either 262 alone is not giving minimum requirements for salvation
2- or faithful and righteous mushriks will also get salvation (which clearly contradicts with Quran)
if you 262ers took the whole message of Quran instead of a single ayat (262) you would easily see that for salvation one must believe in the book and follow the orders in it.
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Salam and Peace, ggg!
...people of far east or even majority of christians who associate Jesus to Allah are good examples of faithful mushriks.
Faithful!!!---to whom?
Faithful to Allah???-----No, not at all, since he is mushrik, so he is not faithful to Allah.
He is faithful,-----but to the partner he sets up with Allah.
He may even be faithful to himself.my post is not about salvation of mushriks but about interpretition of 262.
a mushrik also has iman in god and in afterlife and apparently there are righteous mushriks having families,ethic values, responsibilities etc...people of far east or even majority of christians who associate Jesus to Allah are good examples of faithful mushriks.
You say that a mushrik has Iman in Allah.
Do we know what is Iman in Allah in The Light of Al-Quran?
According to my understanding of Al-Quran,
Iman in Allah is to have Iman in The Tauheed (Oneness) of Allah.
To believe that no Messenger or any othere being is a partner of Allah in His Attrubutes.
To fear Allah. To have trust in Allah. To have full confidence in Allah.
And finally, to tie up all hopes with Allah alone, and with no one else.A mushrik sets up partner with Allah in His Attrubutes.
This shows that he does not fear Allah. He has no trust in Allah. He has no confidence in Allah.
That is why he ties up his hopes with someone else, other than Allah.
So, he calls upon the partner, along with Allah.-----"Allah is the Ever Living, there is no god except Him. So call upon Him, (being) sincere to Him in religion. All the praise be to Allah, the Lord of the worlds." (4065)
This clearly means that a Shirk-doer, even of the muslim ummah, has no Iman in Allah.
Such a shirk-doer will never be forgiven. This is Allah's Decision.There could be people in mushrikeen, doing good deeds.
But since he has no Iman in Allah, because of his shirk,-----therefore his good deeds are not for Allah, and not to please Allah.
For his good deeds, a mushrik will be rewarded in this worldly life. He will get nothing in The Hereafter.-----"Whoever should desire what hastens away (worldly life), We hasten for him therein what We will, for whom We intend. Then We have appointed for him Hell. He will (enter to) burn therein, condemned, rejected." (171
-----"And whoever desires the Hereafter and strives for it with the effort due to it, while he is a believer, then it is those whose effort shall be appreciated." (1719)
Contemplate, in this piece of the above Verse-----"while he is a believer"-----
He must be a believer, means a momin.-----A momin can never be a mushrik.-----And a mushrik can never ever be a momin.Because a mushrik has no trust in Allah, therefore his good deeds are for sure, for the partner he sets up with Allah, or to please himself.
Then how can he ever, or, why will he ever hope for his reward from Allah in Whom he has no Iman?Only a momin who believes in Allah, and has full trust and confidence in Him, will be rewarded, because he does good deeds only to please his Allah, and not to please the Prophet or dead pious people, or even himself.
-----"(Those) who fulfill (their) vows, and they fear a Day whose evil shall be wide spread.
-----And who feed with food, for the love of Him, the poor, and the orphan, and the captive.
-----(Saying) ?We feed you only for the sake of Allah, we neither seek from you any reward, nor thanks.?
-----?Indeed, we fear from our Lord a Day, frowning, distressful.?
-----So Allah shall save them from the evil of that Day and give them radiance and joy." (76 7-11))===================================================================
on the other hand, in ayat 262, "not associating partners to Allah" is not mentioned as a minimum requirement for salvation. then one must choose one of the 2 suggestions below
1- either 262 alone is not giving minimum requirements for salvation
2- or faithful and righteous mushriks will also get salvation (which clearly contradicts with Quran)
-----"Certainly, those who believe (in the Quran), and those who are Jews, and Christians, and Sabaeans, whoever believed in Allah and the Last Day and did righteous deeds, shall then have their reward with their Lord, and there shall be no fear upon them, nor shall they grieve." (262)
Good brother!
The above Verse is giving full meaning without any flaw or contradictions.---All Priase be to Allah alone!!!Read this piece of the Verse---"whoever believed in Allah"---
This has already been discussed that whoever commits shirk, do not believe in Allah alone. He sets up partner with Allah, and so he has two or more gods.
How can such a person be a momin of Allah?Contemplate,-----Allah is not saying---"whoever believed in Allah and believed in the partners he sets up with Allah"---
No,---rather Allah has made it clear like daylight, that ---"whoever believed in Allah"---if you 262ers took the whole message of Quran instead of a single ayat (262) you would easily see that for salvation one must believe in the book and follow the orders in it.
Following Al-Quran is for the one who receives The Message and understands it. He will have to follow Al-Quran at all cost. e.g. The Muslim Ummah, and others who are given a call to Allah's Quran.
But the one who is unaware of Al-Quran, for him is 262.
Peace!
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You need to figure out what a Sabien is, in order to interpret that verse properly.
There are many different ways to see it.... to spell it, even.To see 'monotheism'.... and 'polytheism' correctly.... it's more than meets the eye.
And a Nazarene, for all that.Nazareth didn't even exist during the timeline given for Christianity.
They say.... out of 72 sects, one will be right.
It's not a game of math, it's a riddle for those seeking enlightenment.Dates all the way back to Babylon and the 72 seperate tongues.
There are several levels of "one".
Any number of dimensions which compose a single point.It can't be wrapped in a dogmatic world view.
A single ceremony.Peace.
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Salaam ggg and all,
if you 262ers took the whole message of Quran instead of a single ayat (262) you would easily see that for salvation one must believe in the book and follow the orders in it.
262
Believing in Allah could be understood easily, but believing in means also believing in THE BOOK. Please see 692
692
692 And this is a Book which We have sent down, blessed and confirming what is between his hands, that you may warn the Mother of Cities and those around it. Those who believe in the Hereafter believe in it, and they are maintaining their prayers.
Besides this one more thing is there in 262 " ", how is it possible without The Book?
May Allah guide us all to His only path pr
Mohammed M. Khan -
I think that God is forgiving. If one believes slightly wrong, God may forgive some of that error. And not punish by hell-fire. But I don`t believe it will be a high rank in heaven either.
Association is wrong. And while I do not completely understand jinn yet, I believe they are related to thought processes. The mind is alive, so if one has a concept of a God, in ones mind that is wrong, that will take the form of jinn (atleast that is how it seems to me atm) and these will eventually delude you, by thought or impulses. If you do enough error, your own mind will degrade you, and you will have a low opinion of yourself. The logical extreme of this is completely mindlessness, going against one own nature, in favour of the jinn. In probably what is a complete state of confusion, and wrong belief. Association is of Satan. Satan follows his desire. So at this stage, there is probably promiscuity, and no particular preference for whatever might be in that of following ones desire.
Most sane people will probably stop long before this. However it is only those, with belief in a wrong faith, that will continue. These are the dwellers of hell-fire.
edit well, either take the form, or summon.
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^^^
Oh, so is that what it's all about--"a high rank in heaven"?
(By the way, why give Satan the credit for what we are responsible for?)
Actually, what is most interesting is... in this scenario you guys are pulling, the "non-Muslims" are not of your responsibility, are they? Not in this life. Not in the next. So, why are you so concerned... Could it be the "L" word?
@Truestar, has it ever crossed your mind that if you could love them the way you do (with pure love), what would the love of the Most Loving be for them?
Our human minds are very limited, yet how could we be so sure in determining the future of others, judging lives as we see fit. So the question is for those who would quote the Quran verses after verses to justify the "burning in hell In The Name Of God", or "a lower rank in heaven" etc etc ...
Will you leave this matter to the person him/herself and the Creator? Are you yourself in "heaven" already?
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Heaven is the supreme achievement (Quran).
Your comment on Satan, I dont understand.
I don`t understand your comment on "L" word either.
Love is an ambiguous term. I suggest you use compassion, or desire, wherever appropriate.
I believe the human mind has infinite potential. And what you call determining the future of others, is exactly what God does in the Quran, with good news for the believers and a warning to the associators. This is on a level, that even children can understand. What severe limitation are you talking about?
You refer back to your question, and I have answered that. Since you qoute me, I guess the question was for me.
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@Paradox Uncreated
Oh no, not everything i said is directed at you, just the first two sentences, actually. Forgive me for any confusion.
Regarding "high rank" or "low rank", i have an idea why not look closer into their lives right now, see the works they (the so-called "non-Muslims" are doing, their energy, the people whose lives are being affected/influenced by them etc (and therefore look closer into their lives too and so on and so on)... that should give us a better sense of how they would 'fit into' this heaven we are talking about, don't you think so? )
Regarding satan, well, metaphorically speaking, a "satan" is a potential that exists in every human. So, Human is the one who could potentially follow his desire (not that i label 'desire' as an absolute negative word, but just to keep it in sync with your wording). This is just my opinion, see if it rings with you or leave it. In other words, angelic or satanic. Metaphors.
Love is an ambiguous term. I suggest you use compassion, or desire, wherever appropriate.
Yes, i have made it specific to "pure love" in the following point being addressed to the topic starter who set out the context (i.e. family) )
The rest was not addressed to you specifically. However, you bring a very interesting point
I believe the human mind has infinite potential.
Yes. Very agreeable. Potential being the keyword. That is, not all is known at once.
And what you call determining the future of others, is exactly what God does in the Quran.
Exactly. Should we use this information to judge others with? I think you already know what i'm saying though.
What severe limitation are you talking about?
The limitation of not knowing perfectly the exact nature of the chosen path of any specific human, that is.
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It`s a bit difficult, because being completely non-muslim, is impossible. One is born muslim, and many carry with them natural belief in their life, regardless of what they label themselves. That is why, I believe, the Quran uses the word "associator", because they associate with God, rather than completely disbelieve.
About Satan, I believe in the Quranic statement, that satan is a jinn. I think you should really accept this Quranic logic, because it is very central to Islamic teachings.
"Pure Love" .. ) I am reading your signature, and realizing you are a romantic. Is not God the best? Why worship/love anything else?
About judging.. in the Quran are guidelines.
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Believing in Allah could be understood easily, but believing in means also believing in THE BOOK. Please see 692
692
692 And this is a Book which We have sent down, blessed and confirming what is between his hands, that you may warn the Mother of Cities and those around it. Those who believe in the Hereafter believe in it, and they are maintaining their prayers.
Besides this one more thing is there in 262 " ", how is it possible without The Book?
May Allah guide us all to His only path pr
Mohammed M. KhanGreetings and Peace, all group
No snark intended, but I must disagree with you that the Book is required for belief based on clear verses in AQ.
2140 Or do you say that Abraham and Ishmael and Isaac and Jacob and the Patriarchs were Jewish or Nazarenes? Say Are you more knowledgeable or is God? Who is more wicked than the one who conceals a testimony with him from God? God is not unaware of what you do.
367 Abraham was neither a Jew nor a Nazarene, but he was a monotheist who submitted; he was not of the polytheists.
Abraham (peace upon him and all Prophets) did not have any book. I find no Guidance in AQ requiring any book. Further, as AQ 2130 testifies
And who would abandon the creed of Abraham except one who fools himself? We have selected him in this world, and in the Hereafter he is of the righteous.
AQ 33 states
He sent down to you the Book with the truth, authenticating what is between his hands; and He sent down the Torah and the Gospel.
AQ is a blessing (from ALLAH!), but ultimately it is a tool--a tool to be used for the purpose of guiding those who would be guided--to ALLAH. AQ even states that it is not the only Guidance (AQ 33, see above).
Rain means wet streets, but wet streets don't necessarily mean rain. Those who follow AQ are like rain. Wet streets are like the righteous. ALLAH knows best, and without doubt knows who is righteous.
May ALLAH see fit to guide all seekers.
peace
~Abdul-Hadi
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Salaam All,
Religion/DEEN is nothing but one?s LIFESTYLE. The way we spend our lifetime from the time we wake up from our daily rest to the time we go back to sleep again. This sounds a bit weird of a definition, but something to think about.
Islam, on the other hand, is the NAME of a certain and SPECIFIC lifestyle. The said lifestyle, i.e., ISLAM, has been defined throughout The Qur?aan in detail. See 2177 for full definition.
According to The Qur?aan, we are responsible for our ACTIONS only, during our life of this world.
According to The Qu?aan, whosoever that believes in GOD, THE LAST DAY, and leads a RIGHTEOUS, constructive LIFESTYLE, should not be fearful of anyone or get sad about anything. See 262 and 569.
Saying all that, and after all, the ultimate judgment belongs to GOD Himself. Our only responsibility toward our fellow humans is just to promoting virtue and preventing from vice, only when possible and in a peaceful manner. See 3104.
Peace,
Khal -
Salam bro,
You say that a mushrik has Iman in Allah.
I say a mushrik has Iman to (a certain) god i.e. a mushrik is not an atheist.
Iman in Allah is to have Iman in The Tauheed (Oneness) of Allah.
Iman in Allah is firstly believing and accepting the divinity of Quran. All other ideas like tauheed etc. are teachings of Quran. Mushriks aren't mushriks because they are faithless but because they reject Quran's message.
Following Al-Quran is for the one who receives The Message and understands it.
But the one who is unaware of Al-Quran, for him is 262.
I think you are wrong since 262 adresses all believers, not the ones among them who are unaware of Al_Quran. (262 "Certainly, those who believe, and those......... "
Quran do not tell us about the salvation of unawares of Al-Quran, because this info is unnecessary for the awares of Al-Quran and inaccessible for the unawares of Al-Quran. ;D
Surely salvation is guaranteed by totally following Quran, which is not possible for fallible human-beings, but we muslims still hope salvation due to the mercy of Allah.
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Salaam brother Abdul-Hadi,
I did not understand the purpose of aayaats quoted by you. Can you please clarify them and explain me how they are in relation to the topic?
Abraham (peace upon him and all Prophets) did not have any book. I find no Guidance in AQ requiring any book. Further, as AQ 2130 testifies
Ibrahim (AS) and all other Prophets were having 'The Book' i.e., AlKitaab.
Ibrahim - 683
Is-haaq, Ya'qoob, Noah, Dawood, Sulaimaan, Ayyoob, Yousuf, Moosa, Haroon - 684
Zakariyya, Yahya, E'isa, Ilyas - 685
Isma'eel, AlYasa'a, Younus, Looth - 686
From there fathers, children and brothers - 687
If they do shirk, they would have lost what they have done - 688
These are the ones who got 'AL KITAAB' + 'AL HIKMAH' + 'AL NABUWWAT' - 689May Allah guide us all to His true path pr
Mohammed M. Khan -
Salaam brother Abdul-Hadi,
I did not understand the purpose of aayaats quoted by you. Can you please clarify them and explain me how they are in relation to the topic?
Wa Alaikum as-Salam Brother Khan
I quoted AQ 2140 and 367 to show that Abraham (peace upon him and all prophets) was neither a Jew nor a Christian. He could not be (not only because AQ says so!) but also because the Holy Texts related to people called Jews or Christians did not exist at that time. So then...if neither the Torah, Mosaic law, the Bible, the Gospel, nor AQ existed, I pose the following questions in relation to your post Ibrahim (AS) and all other Prophets were having 'The Book' i.e., AlKitaab.
Which Book might that be? Abraham (peace upon him and all prophets), came long before Moses. Any Book in existence at that time was neither the Torah, the Bible, nor AQ. In English, what Book is AL KITAAB?
By my understanding, AL KITAAB refers to "People of the Book", not a specific Holy Text--and any person chosen for Guidance, even if they had not recieved a Book, is to be considered a AL KITAAB. Guidance is Guidance--it doesn't and didn't matter if it was conveyed through a Book or not.
683 And such was Our argument that We gave Abraham over his people; We raise the degree of whom We please. Your Lord is Wise, Knowledgeable.
684 And We granted him Isaac and Jacob, both of whom We guided; and Noah We guided from before; and from his progeny is David, and Solomon, and Job, and Joseph, and Moses, and Aaron. It is such that We recompense the good doers.
685 And Zachariah and John, and Jesus, and Elias; all were from the upright.
686 And Ishmael and Elisha and Jonah and Lot; and each We have preferred over the worlds.
687 And from their fathers and their progeny and their brothers We have also chosen; and We
guided them to a straight path.688 Such is the guidance of God, He guides with it whom He pleases of His servants. And if they set up partners, then all that they had worked would fall away from them.
689 Those to whom We have given the Book, and the law, and the prophethood, if they reject it, then We will entrust it to a people who will not reject it.
Are you sure that 689 says "These" and not "Those"?
The overall purpose was to state that nothing in Allah's creation is reserved for any person solely because of any manmade label. AQ 262 is not the only way of confirming this. I feel that it is wrong to claim exclusivity where none exists--and neither rewards nor punishments are ours to bestow or deny! Isn't this one of the problems with Judaism, that it claimed exclusivity for its adherents?
If I am mistaken, I look forward to increasing my knowledge and understanding.
May ALLAH see fit to grant us all useful knowledge, and Guide all seekers.
peace
~Abdul-Hadi