Quran vs quranists
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Consider 1912 "O John, you shall uphold the scripture, strongly." We endowed him with wisdom, even in his youth.
Just to clarify something you did take it in a wrong way . In this verse God didn't say wisdom .
(12) (13) (14) (15) .
The word is "Hokma" not "Hikma" which is wisdom . so Hokma here not wisdom .
Hokma that came in the verse means comprehend the laws and giving the knowledge and govern between people in a right manner.
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Does that mean you admit that you have been lying? hmm
No, that means that God knows if I lied or if I didn't . God knows what's in my heart . So thanks for your care.
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Listen, you want to play this game, fine...let me show you how it's done and after that, if you don't stop playing dense, you have only yourself to blame.
You didn't ask me about wisdom in youth but I did ask you . You brought up the verse but you didn't ask me . I'm the one who asked you. So are you going to answer or just say I don't know and I try to explain.
I did ask you about wisdom in youth that is why I brought the verse up (duh) I brought up the verse to ask you to explain, it's obvious. I'm the one who asked you so are you going to answer or just say I don't know and I try to explain.Is there a thing we know what does not mean ? things are always with meaning, so when you answer the question by yes or not , tell me how ?
Yes there are things we know what does not mean. Things are always with meanings that is why we know what does not mean. Why is a toasting fork? (hur dur) So when you answer my question by yes, or not, tell me how what.Can you tell me How everyone whith its own wisdom ?
Can you tell me how everyone not?The word is "Hokma" not "Hikma" which is wisdom . so Hokma here not wisdom .
Hokma that came in the verse means comprehend the laws and giving the knowledge and govern between people in a right manner.
judgment/arbitration yes...now, in your own words, how would someone endowed with god given wisdom ("every prophet with their own wisdom", make judgements/arbitrate/govern between people in a right manner? Like a dumb duck? Or a wise human? It obviously follows that he could analyse and use reasoning, had sound judgement/wisdom. Use your head!
(apologies to those with a sane bent of mind reading the above)....Th1 what comes after is not for the likes of you, just stick to the above, thanks.
Apparently wisdom/authority/judgement/guidance given to someone "even in his youth" implies that it is
a) not something that is normally present at that age. Thus, the contrast given.
b) is something that points towards utilising the scripture in part, hence the "you shall uphold the scripture, strongly". Extracting wisdom/guidance from situations/environment/what is around and within, exercising sound judgement. Through god given faculties of experiencing, reasoning, understanding, assimilating, etc going through a process that results in wisdom/sound judgement.This applies to everyone, everywhere. Anyone can go through the process and God willing achieve wisdom. Sadly, elitist snobs act as if it was some secretive magical ritual that took place via mystical means and lesser/sub humans can never achieve wisdom, unless it's the freakin' ulema. They have it in spades. Oh yes.
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Further proof that hikmah=al-kitab=ayat of Allah
2/231When ye divorce women, and they fulfil the term of their ('Iddat), either take them back on equitable terms or set them free on equitable terms; but do not take them back to injure them, (or) to take undue advantage; if any one does that; He wrongs his own soul (now please observe the syntax)
wala tattakhithoo ayati Allahi huzuwan Do not take signs of Allah as jest
waothkuroo niAAmata Allahi AAalaykum and remember God's favour on you
wama anzala AAalaykum mina alkitabi waalhikmati and what Allah desended on you from al-kitab and al-hikmah
yaAAithukum bihi he instructs you with IT (not the dual 'bihima'
And fear Allah, and know that Allah is well acquainted with all thingsSo here Allah talks about his SIGNS. Don?t take them in mockery but rather remember his bounties. And he descends to you from the book and al-hikmah and instructs you WITH IT. Why is it not with them? Because the book and al-hikmah are two sides of the same coin but both are the signs of Allah.
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Listen, you want to play this game, fine...let me show you how it's done and after that, if you don't stop playing dense, you have only yourself to blame.
The one who plays here is you . you brough up the verse but you didn't ask ? swear by God that you have asked me there. I'm the one who asked and the post is there .
Look I know your trick, this is not the first time . I've stopped you before . And I can do it again .
I did ask you about wisdom in youth that is why I brought the verse up (duh) I brought up the verse to ask you to explain, it's obvious.
Ah now, you bact to the real thread .
So thanks for admiting that wisdom is not the scripture . can I ask you this question "why would God gave him wisdom in his youth ? "
P.S every prophet with its own wisdom .
This is your post, and there is no question from you about the verse .
I'm the one who asked you so are you going to answer or just say I don't know and I try to explain.
OK ,explain . Let me remind you that the verse already translated wrong .
Yes there are things we know what does not mean. Things are always with meanings that is why we know what does not mean. Why is a toasting fork? (hur dur) So when you answer my question by yes, or not, tell me how what.
Hahah, you ask why ? and you said answer by "Yes" or "No" .
Can you tell me how everyone not?
Answer my question, I'll answer yours .
judgment/arbitration yes...now, in your own words, how would someone endowed with god given wisdom ("every prophet with their own wisdom", make judgements/arbitrate/govern between people in a right manner? Like a dumb duck? Or a wise human? It obviously follows that he could analyse and use reasoning, had sound judgement/wisdom. Use your head!
(apologies to those with a sane bent of mind reading the above)....Th1 what comes after is not for the likes of you, just stick to the above, thanks.
Apparently wisdom/authority/judgement/guidance given to someone "even in his youth" implies that it is
a) not something that is normally present at that age. Thus, the contrast given.
b) is something that points towards utilising the scripture in part, hence the "you shall uphold the scripture, strongly". Extracting wisdom/guidance from situations/environment/what is around and within, exercising sound judgement. Through god given faculties of experiencing, reasoning, understanding, assimilating, etc going through a process that results in wisdom/sound judgement.
This applies to everyone, everywhere. Anyone can go through the process and God willing achieve wisdom. Sadly, elitist snobs act as if it was some secretive magical ritual that took place via mystical means and lesser/sub humans can never achieve wisdom, unless it's the freakin' ulema. They have it in spades. Oh yes.Evryone will visit this forum and read this thread, he will see your outrage and your nonsense.
First of all there is no word in the verse means wisdom .
second of all I explained to you the verse .
Third of all I didn't talk about "Ulema".
Blow your cover .
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Further proof that hikmah=al-kitab=ayat of Allah
2/231When ye divorce women, and they fulfil the term of their ('Iddat), either take them back on equitable terms or set them free on equitable terms; but do not take them back to injure them, (or) to take undue advantage; if any one does that; He wrongs his own soul (now please observe the syntax)
wala tattakhithoo ayati Allahi huzuwan Do not take signs of Allah as jest
waothkuroo niAAmata Allahi AAalaykum and remember God's favour on you
wama anzala AAalaykum mina alkitabi waalhikmati and what Allah desended on you from al-kitab and al-hikmah
yaAAithukum bihi he instructs you with IT (not the dual 'bihima'
And fear Allah, and know that Allah is well acquainted with all things
So here Allah talks about his SIGNS. Don?t take them in mockery but rather remember his bounties. And he descends to you from the book and al-hikmah and instructs you WITH IT. Why is it not with them? Because the book and al-hikmah are two sides of the same coin but both are the signs of Allah.Yes, you're right (and what Allah desended on you from al-kitab and al-hikmah
yaAAithukum bihi he instructs you with IT. Al-Aitha is from Quran not from HIKMA . YaAAithu is not instruct because prophet not in need of instructing you using Quran because Quran is full of clear instructions .The word in Arabic is " " and it doesn't mean "instruct you with it " and I explained why . The word in english is to give you lessons from it through explaining the mode of many stories in it or through the meaning of verses .Like surah Yusuf the Aitha and lessons in it are tolerance and patient of Yusuf .
So the "Aitha" is from Quran not from HIKMA, HIKMA has its own modes like independant ligeslations and translations of the words of Quran into deeds and Af-al . The verse is clear in arabic that HIKMA is not Quran in this thing which is "Ai-Al-AITHA"
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Further proof that hikmah=al-kitab=ayat of Allah
2/231When ye divorce women, and they fulfil the term of their ('Iddat), either take them back on equitable terms or set them free on equitable terms; but do not take them back to injure them, (or) to take undue advantage; if any one does that; He wrongs his own soul (now please observe the syntax)
wala tattakhithoo ayati Allahi huzuwan Do not take signs of Allah as jest
waothkuroo niAAmata Allahi AAalaykum and remember God's favour on you
wama anzala AAalaykum mina alkitabi waalhikmati and what Allah desended on you from al-kitab and al-hikmah
yaAAithukum bihi he instructs you with IT (not the dual 'bihima'
And fear Allah, and know that Allah is well acquainted with all thingsSo here Allah talks about his SIGNS. Don?t take them in mockery but rather remember his bounties. And he descends to you from the book and al-hikmah and instructs you WITH IT. Why is it not with them? Because the book and al-hikmah are two sides of the same coin but both are the signs of Allah.
Nice aq
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The one who plays here is you . you brough up the verse but you didn't ask ? swear by God that you have asked me there. I'm the one who asked and the post is there .
Look I know your trick, this is not the first time . I've stopped you before . And I can do it again .
No, the one who plays here is you. I brought up the verse but you didn't answer? swear by a raccoon that I didn't bring up the verse. I'm the one who brought up the verse and the post is there. I know your latest trick, this is ages old. I've eaten ice cream before and I'll eat it again. So there.This is your post, and there is no question from you about the verse .
That is not my post. My post has a verse in it.OK ,explain . Let me remind you that the verse already translated wrong .
I have already explained, let me remind you that you can't comprehend.Hahah, you ask why ? and you said answer by "Yes" or "No" .
Hahah this is exactly what we see when we read your posts!Answer my question, I'll answer yours .
I've answered your question, answer mine.Evryone will visit this forum and read this thread, he will see your outrage and your nonsense.
Everyone will visit this forum and read this thread and see that you can't read. This part isn't addressed to you D.First of all there is no word in the verse means wisdom .
First of all, read. my. post. no, really. I mean it. READ.second of all I explained to you the verse .
second of all, no you didn't. I did.Third of all I didn't talk about "Ulema".
Third of all, the village idiot is crying because you beat him 10-0 in the vote for his place at the town square. -
This is your post and there is no question, you just brought up the verse and you don't even read it so when I asked, you just shocked and tried to find a way to run .
Interesting how such a big fat mysterious issue has been made of "the wisdom different from wisdom" in the quran.
Consider 1912 "O John, you shall uphold the scripture, strongly." We endowed him with wisdom, even in his youth.
Yeah, he was given a collection of his own best actions/mannerisms/rules/laws/etc for the rest of his ordained life (leatherbound with gold accents) for future pious believers to follow, in his youth...other than the scripture obviously.
You have admited first of all that wisdom is not scripture. So the thread is right , Wisdom is the deeds and the sayings and the ligeslations and the instructions that the prophet will give to the nation by definition sunnah by defintion registered in Hadith. So we must follow hadith and study it too (already done) . have a nice day carrot .
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No, the one who plays here is you. I brought up the verse but you didn't answer? swear by a raccoon that I didn't bring up the verse. I'm the one who brought up the verse and the post is there. I know your latest trick, this is ages old. I've eaten ice cream before and I'll eat it again. So there.
That is not my post. My post has a verse in it.
I have already explained, let me remind you that you can't comprehend.Hahah this is exactly what we see when we read your posts!I've answered your question, answer mine.
Everyone will visit this forum and read this thread and see that you can't read. This part isn't addressed to you . First of all, read. my. post. no, really. I mean it. READ.
second of all, no you didn't. I did.
Third of all, the village idiot is crying because you beat him 10-0 in the vote for his place at the town square.Keep trying to hide your face, the truth is there, everyone knows the truth .
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This is your post and there is no question, you just brought up the verse and you don't even read it so when I asked, you just shocked and tried to find a way to run .
Yeah. Hey, you know what? Not everyone is like you, you're amongst an elite group of people, so you can stop projecting your m.o. onto others.You have admited first of all that wisdom is not scripture.
there is just so much mucking about you can do without reading and understanding people's posts. Then come the consequences. Repent now before it's too late.Wisdom is the deeds and the sayings and the ligeslations and the instructions that the prophet will give to the nation by definition sunnah by defintion registered in Hadith. So we must follow hadith and study it too (already done) .
If one keeps repeating something, it doesn't make it the truth.Keep trying to hide your face, the truth is there, everyone knows the truth .
Yes like
YaAAithu is not instruct because prophet not in need of instructing you using Quran because Quran is full of clear instructions .
If the quran is so full of clear instructions as you admit, why do you need anything else?And he descends to you from the book and al-hikmah and instructs you WITH IT. Why is it not with them? Let's answer doing the thereformer1 Duh.
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Yes, you're right (and what Allah desended on you from al-kitab and al-hikmah
yaAAithukum bihi he instructs you with IT. Al-Aitha is from Quran not from HIKMA . YaAAithu is not instruct because prophet not in need of instructing you using Quran because Quran is full of clear instructions .As usual, you RIP OUT a few words from the ayah. You failed to see the part about 'laa tattakhidhoo AYAT ALLAHI huzuwan'. That shows that it is in fact the ayat of Allah.
The Quran is full of clear instructions? Good. That means we don't need anything to 'explain' it.
The word in Arabic is " " and it doesn't mean "instruct you with it " and I explained why . The word in english is to give you lessons from it through explaining the mode of many stories in it or through the meaning of verses .Like surah Yusuf the Aitha and lessons in it are tolerance and patient of Yusuf
.Ok, so al-itha is for Quran. Good. So why does it say al-kitab wal hikmah ya3ihukum bihi. Why not Al-hikmah wal-kitab ya3ithukum bihi. Putting al-hikmah between al-kitab and al-itha shows your opinion doesn't fit.
So the "Aitha" is from Quran not from HIKMA, HIKMA has its own modes like independant ligeslations and translations of the words of Quran into deeds and Af-al . The verse is clear in arabic that HIKMA is not Quran in this thing which is "Ai-Al-AITHA"
Is al-hikmah wahi ghair matlu?
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Yeah. Hey, you know what? Not everyone is like you, you're amongst an elite group of people, so you can stop projecting your m.o. onto others.
there is just so much mucking about you can do without reading and understanding people's posts. Then come the consequences. Repent now before it's too late.Yeah, because your post is like the statu of the inted states, well people can read your post and mine and they can see who is the one who flight and escaped from answering .
About who is going to repent is you, because denying the words of God and distorting Quran and saying Jeez ,here you must repent. I'm not sure that you're Muslim . none of your post has one verse and the only post you did bringing verse from Assaad website with interpretation .
If one keeps repeating something, it doesn't make it the truth.
There your posts, and there mines, people will decide who is the truthful and they already did, look for the posts here from other memebers .
Yes likeIf the quran is so full of clear instructions as you admit, why do you need anything else?
Yes, you need an explanation of these clear instructions, when God said "pray and prostrate" , the prophet came to show us how to pray and how many prayers and how to prostrate and what to say when we're prostrating . or do you have better idea about these clear instructions ?
And he descends to you from the book and al-hikmah and instructs you WITH IT. Why is it not with them? Let's answer doing the thereformer1 Duh.
I've explained to the member why it is not written with them, because the word "yaAAthikum" is for Quran, not for HIKMA, HIKMA is for another purposes .
And I've said that the word in arabic that came in the verse is not instruct .
This is what I said
The word in Arabic is " " and it doesn't mean "instruct you with it " and I explained why . The word in english is to give you lessons from it through explaining the mode of many stories in it or through the meaning of verses .Like surah Yusuf the Aitha and lessons in it are tolerance and patient of Yusuf .
So the "Aitha" is from Quran not from HIKMA, HIKMA has its own modes like independant ligeslations and translations of the words of Quran into deeds and Af-al . The verse is clear in arabic that HIKMA is not Quran in this thing which is "Ai-Al-AITHA"
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Is al-hikmah wahi ghair matlu?
look for the posts here from other memebers .
You must have sight beyond sight.Yes, you need an explanation of these clear instructions
Lmao.Go on, respond to abdal instead of having a paroxysm.
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As usual, you RIP OUT a few words from the ayah. You failed to see the part about 'laa tattakhidhoo AYAT ALLAHI huzuwan'. That shows that it is in fact the ayat of Allah.
'laa tattakhidhoo AYAT ALLAHI huzuwan', do you know that ayaat of allah is everything in the world , one of them is Quran which contains verses ?
God here asked us to not mock in his ayatte which can be everything in the world . Like for example one person insult the face of this one because of a mutation in it , the face of human is one of the ayyat, so don't mock about it.
Ayatt are not just verses .
The Quran is full of clear instructions? Good. That means we don't need anything to 'explain' it.
No that means nothing, being clear in its instructions, does not mean that it didn't need explanation of these clear instructions . When you're driving your car in the road and you see a red light , you stop , so the act of stopping when seeing a red light is an explanation of a clear instruction of code of roads .
Ok, so al-itha is for Quran. Good. So why does it say al-kitab wal hikmah ya3ihukum bihi. Why not Al-hikmah wal-kitab ya3ithukum bihi. Putting al-hikmah between al-kitab and al-itha shows your opinion doesn't fit.
No, it fits because the word is for Quran not for HIKMA, the God make it clear that the Al-itha is for Quran and he let HIKMA for another purposes . He mentioned that the prophet was giving the Book and the Hikma, because Quran contains stories where we can understand and comprehend the "Al-ITHA" . HIKMA is not for that purposes and he let the prophet to show its purposes from their deeds and their sayings and their reports.
Is al-hikmah wahi ghair matlu?
I didn't understand this , please if you want to write a word in arabic, write in arabic .
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sorry, i dont have arabic fonts here.
There are two kinds of wahi
matlu (recited)
ghair matlu (not recited)
is al-hikmah one or the other? thanks.
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sorry, i dont have arabic fonts here.
There are two kinds of wahi
matlu (recited)
ghair matlu (not recited)
is al-hikmah one or the other? thanks.Thanks for clarifying your question . And sorry to say that your classification about Wahi is a little bit wrong .
But I'm going to answer your question, because the subject is not about Wahi .
Al-HIKMA some of it Matlu and some of it ghair matlu . So let me ask you this question what is the ghair matlu ?