Quran vs quranists
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Thereformer1,
thanks for the verses except you have one problem why does "hikma = sunnah hadith" Shafi was the first to assert such a claim.
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=8803.0 look at this hadith, telling you the wisdom is the Quran not hadith, isnt that a contradiction in fiqh?I have never read the claims of Sahfi and I've searched for the verse myself then I looked for it in some interpretation from some old and new scholars and as I said I was shocked because I found the same result and it is that Hikma is sunnah which by definition in hadith .
The word "HIKMA" in arabic has a lot of meanings other than wisdom . So think for the link and I hoped the best for you . Now it's up to you to follow what God said or what Satan said .
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- Verily, All?h is not ashamed to set forth a parable even of a mosquito or so much more when it is bigger (or less when it is smaller) than it. And as for those who believe, they know that it is the Truth from their Lord, but as for those who disbelieve, they say "What did All?h intend by this parable?" By it He misleads many, and many He guides thereby. And He misleads thereby only those who are Al-F?siq?n (the rebellious, disobedient to All?h).
well, this an example from God, the believers will understand the example . The non believers and the hypocrites they will not and asking its meanings .
I understand that in this verse He is saying people like YOU have to use hadith to understand the parable. This is not a good example for promoting hadith.- He grants Hikmah to whom He pleases, and he, to whom Hikmah is granted, is indeed granted abundant good. But none remember (will receive admonition) except men of understanding.
Can you please me with any interpretation and comprehension of the verse from your side ?
he grants some with wisdom and some not, those that are granted wisdom will have abundant good and those that are not granted wisdom will be forever looking fo meanings in other books to explain.
side note I have a complaint that in your original post you have added words to Gods Book that were not there in the original Arabic, and you should know that.
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I have never read the claims of Sahfi and I've searched for the verse myself then I looked for it in some interpretation from some old and new scholars and as I said I was shocked because I found the same result and it is that Hikma is sunnah which by definition in hadith .
The word "HIKMA" in arabic has a lot of meanings other than wisdom . So think for the link and I hoped the best for you . Now it's up to you to follow what God said or what Satan said .
As has already been pointed out Allah gave the wisdom (Hikma) to Jesus and many other prophets, that is NOT the sunnah of Muhammed but is the wisdom given by Allah. Your logic says Allah gave the sunnah of Muhammed to Jesus which is not true
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I have never read the claims of Sahfi and I've searched for the verse myself then I looked for it in some interpretation from some old and new scholars and as I said I was shocked because I found the same result and it is that Hikma is sunnah which by definition in hadith .
The word "HIKMA" in arabic has a lot of meanings other than wisdom . So think for the link and I hoped the best for you . Now it's up to you to follow what God said or what Satan said .
see above, Wisdom has a lot of meanings in English too. Seems you are not sure what the English word Wisdom actually means. It does not mean sunnah of muhammed and if you need to to apply to sunnah of anything then its the sunnah of Allah.
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I did a root search for / ha-ka-ma and came across several verses that use the word / hekma.
I can see that -- if you're intent on doing so -- you might interpret hekma as sunna in particular verses where it's used in conjunction with Mohammed. However, the word is used throughout the Qur'an, and in some verses it would not make any sense at all to translate it as hadith or sunna of Muhammad.
Thank you so much for your research, that shows that you want to understand .
ha-ka-ma= Hakama which means a person who is allowed to judge because of a specific criteria of justice in his heart or people say him as juste man .
we say in arabic " " means "this person is Hakim" the word Hakim means two things that this person wisdom or this person knows how to judge because of some qualities of wisdom in his judgement .
So basically this word never can't be juste words alone, it is deeds and reports .
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I've searched for the verse myself then I looked for it in some interpretation from some old and new scholars and as I said I was shocked because I found the same result and it is that Hikma is sunnah which by definition in hadith .
But there are verses that don't make sense if you replace "hikma" with "Muhammad's sunna / hadith". I will do that in some ayat below in order to illustrate what I mean.
Or do they envy mankind for what Allah hath given them of his bounty? but We had already given the people of Abraham the Book and Muhammad's sunna, and conferred upon them a great kingdom.
"And Allah will teach him (Jesus) the Book and Muhammad's sunna, the Law and the Gospel
By Allah's will they routed them; and David slew Goliath; and Allah gave him power and Muhammad's sunna and taught him whatever (else) He willed.
We strengthened his kingdom, and gave him (David) Muhammad's sunna and sound judgment in speech and decision.
"This is what we rehearse unto thee of the Signs and the Message of Muhammad's sunna."
Then will Allah say "O Jesus the son of Mary! Recount My favour to thee and to thy mother. Behold! I strengthened thee with the holy spirit, so that thou didst speak to the people in childhood and in maturity. Behold! I taught thee the Book and Muhammad's sunna, the Law and the Gospel and behold! ...
Invite (all) to the Way of thy Lord with Muhammad's sunna and beautiful preaching; and argue with them in ways that are best and most gracious for thy Lord knoweth best, who have strayed from His Path, and who receive guidance.magic.'
Mature Muhammad's sunna; but (the preaching of) Warners profits them not.
How did you came up with your conclusion (that hekma = sunna / hadith) when you thought about the following verses? confused
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Wisdom is a deep understanding of people, things, events or situations, resulting in the ability to choose or act to consistently produce the optimum results with a minimum of time and energy. Wisdom is the ability to optimally (effectively and efficiently) apply perceptions and knowledge and so produce the desired results. Wisdom is comprehension of what is true or right coupled with optimum judgment as to action. Synonyms include sagacity, discernment, or insight. Wisdom often requires control of one's emotional reactions (the "passions" so that one's principles, reason and knowledge prevail to determine one's actions.
One with Wisdom, is WISE
We're talking about wisdom from God and it is always behind the word " the book=Quran" . And it came equal to the book and the Gospel and the Torah . and It is for all prophets . As we know Ibrahim has sunnah, Mussa has sunnah too, Aissa has sunnah as well, and the list is too long , this is the meaning of wisdom in Quran , there other parts in Quran where it stated that wisdom is just wisdom. But when it came equal to his book, sorry it means something else .
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ha-ka-ma= Hakama which means a person who is allowed to judge because of a specific criteria of justice in his heart or people say him as juste man .
we say in arabic " " means "this person is Hakim" the word Hakim means two things that this person wisdom or this person knows how to judge because of some qualities of wisdom in his judgement .
I know what it means. Doing a root search implies that you look up the various meanings.
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But there are verses that don't make sense if you replace "hikma" with "Muhammad's sunna / hadith". I will do that in some ayat below in order to illustrate what I mean.
Hikma means everything that prophet did and said(every prophet has his own sunnah), whether it is Hadith or act, so it is wisdom. or if you're not agree with me ? please prove that wisdom means wisdom ? and what is wisdom for you ?
and why it is behind the book of Allah when the verses are about the prophet ?How did you came up with your conclusion (that hekma = sunna / hadith) when you thought about the following verses? confused
Look, I've searched for all the words in Quran that mentioned "HIKMA" and I found that the verses that speaks about the prophet always the HIKMA came behind the book of Allah, and in some verses equal to the Gospel and the Torah. And is a verse, it came alone and the verse was about the prophet .
If you look careful about the verse that God metioned a prophet with HIKMA, you'll find that it is never came behind his message (of any prophet) and God in thoses verses was talking about another type of HIKMA not the same one that has been mentioned in the verses that speak about the prophet Muhammed peace be upon him .
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Sorry, I don't understand your question at all. Of course wisdom is not "just words". Wisdom is wisdom. confused
OK, I think you have read the verses where Loqman spoke to his son and the words of wisdom that he said to his son . Are they just words ?
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I understand that in this verse He is saying people like YOU have to use hadith to understand the parable. This is not a good example for promoting hadith.
Hey, please I've done with insulting people or people insult me , keep the conversation clean . And by the way I'm not talking about any hadith , I've pointed out that HIKMA means sunnah which is by definition in Hadith , if you disagree with me proof why Wisdom in the verses that speak about the prophet came after the book of Allah and equal to Gospel and Torah ?
he grants some with wisdom and some not, those that are granted wisdom will have abundant good and those that are not granted wisdom will be forever looking fo meanings in other books to explain.
Is that really what came in the verse ? can you just give me a little proof that God said that people without wisdom searching in other books to explain ? is it forbidden to search about explanation from other books ?
side note I have a complaint that in your original post you have added words to Gods Book that were not there in the original Arabic, and you should know that.
I didn't add anything, this is translation of a person and he translated the word HIKMA the same as I found it , is not that coincidence ?
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I will say one thing, "hikma" is "hikma" and "sunnah of muhammad" is "sunnah of muhammed". Where they meet, you would be correct to assume they are equivalent. However substituting a word for a different word in the quran is a lie against Allah and deserves a painful yet just retribution.
Also, the ahadeeth are vastly lacking in any so called "hikma". It's like saying mouse means "cat", indeed if you put your so-called "cat" around other cats, your "cat" shall not survive very long D
Any hikma taught by Allah is perfect in its consistency, utterly lacking contradiction in any way shape or form.
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As has already been pointed out Allah gave the wisdom (Hikma) to Jesus and many other prophets, that is NOT the sunnah of Muhammed but is the wisdom given by Allah. Your logic says Allah gave the sunnah of Muhammed to Jesus which is not true
Yes, the deeds and the words of Jesus are still practicing by the real christians and it is for that specific time and Quran told us about this kind of HIKMA .
But because Quran came with another ligeslations and laws not existing in what Jesus did at that time, so Typically this sunnah will change because of the difference of laws in Quran .
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see above, Wisdom has a lot of meanings in English too. Seems you are not sure what the English word Wisdom actually means. It does not mean sunnah of muhammed and if you need to to apply to sunnah of anything then its the sunnah of Allah.
For the second time . We're talking about another kind of wisdom not existing in your english vocabulery or in you Oxford dictionary . The word wisdom is after the mentionning of word the book of Allah and it is from him to every prophet, but in the verses where God mentioned Muhammed peace be upon him was after his mentioning his book and for the other prophet was without mentioning the book .
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So, Mr Reformer,
Would this "hikma" sent down by Allah the all-knowing, all-powerful contradict itself in any way?
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I know what it means. Doing a root search implies that you look up the various meanings.
So, what is your answer of the questions above ?
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I will say one thing, "hikma" is "hikma" and "sunnah of muhammad" is "sunnah of muhammed". Where they meet, you would be correct to assume they are equivalent.
First of all you admit that Hikma and sunnah of prophet are equivalent . let me ask you this question .
Is Good said that he will protect this HIKMA ? if Yes how ? if No how ?
However substituting a word for a different word in the quran is a lie against Allah and deserves a painful yet just retribution.
I think it is not a lie, and I didn't substitute any word for a different word in Quran . I gave you what I found from my opinion and what I found from other opinions and it was the same thing from old scholars to new scholars plus the arabic language, let me remind you that language can't lie neither I can use it for lie, maybe someone will use it to decept but this deception is just for the ignorant, someone with a little bit of knowledge will know this kind of deception and detecte it . I said look for yourself and you'll that the verses where the HIKMA is behind the book of Allah in verses that speak about the prophet .
Also, the ahadeeth are vastly lacking in any so called "hikma". It's like saying mouse means "cat", indeed if you put your so-called "cat" around other cats, your "cat" shall not survive very long D
I think ahadeeth have already classified and they have also their own science. About lacking in any so called "hikma" sorry I have to dispoint you , some ahadeeth are for ligeslation and some are with wisdom, great wisdom . You can look for the palm and the muslim and read some wisdom from the prophet, in addition to this you can look the wisdom of the prophet in calling Muslim and the way he describe a muslim .
And about you mous being a cat, just bring to me one hadith that can hold your signification "mouse being cat" and please it must be with sanad Sahih or the hadith is Sahih . not here you can make another Thread if you want
Any hikma taught by Allah is perfect in its consistency, utterly lacking contradiction in any way shape or form.
Just give me one proof that hadith Sahih or Isnaad sahih is utterly . In another thread please that if you want.
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So, Mr Reformer,
Would this "hikma" sent down by Allah the all-knowing, all-powerful contradict itself in any way?
I've asked you a question, is God said in Quran that he will protect this "HIKMA" ? if Yes how ? if No how?
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We're talking about wisdom from God and it is always behind the word " the book=Quran" . And it came equal to the book and the Gospel and the Torah . and It is for all prophets . As we know Ibrahim has sunnah, Mussa has sunnah too, Aissa has sunnah as well, and the list is too long , this is the meaning of wisdom in Quran , there other parts in Quran where it stated that wisdom is just wisdom. But when it came equal to his book, sorry it means something else .
Yes I know what we are talking about. the Wisdom is IN the Book. Yes Moses had sunnah and there are verses warning you what the people of Moses did in following other than the book from God, there are also verses telling you what the people did in following Jesus and not the Book of God, they went as far as making Jesus God.
All prophets had wisdom, they were wise, and they got their wisdom from Allah and it came with the books and in the books. It is not a separate thing, it is the message, the books from Allah.
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Hikma means everything that prophet did and said(every prophet has his own sunnah), whether it is Hadith or act, so it is wisdom. or if you're not agree with me ? please prove that wisdom means wisdom ? and what is wisdom for you ?
and why it is behind the book of Allah when the verses are about the prophet ?
that is the oddest thing to say, 'please prove that wisdom means wisdom' ???
Because Allah gave the prophet the Book and the wisdom IN the book.Look, I've searched for all the words in Quran that mentioned "HIKMA" and I found that the verses that speaks about the prophet always the HIKMA came behind the book of Allah, and in some verses equal to the Gospel and the Torah. And is a verse, it came alone and the verse was about the prophet .
Allah did not give the prophets, ANY prophets the sunnah apart from the sunnah of ALLAH, this is in Quran, it tells you this. They all followed the sunnah of Allah. the wisdom is IN the books. the Torah and Gospel and Quran are all THE BOOK. one message, one God. Any verse that Allah mentions wisdom and prophet will be because all prophets had wisdom, they were wise.If you look careful about the verse that God metioned a prophet with HIKMA, you'll find that it is never came behind his message (of any prophet) and God in thoses verses was talking about another type of HIKMA not the same one that has been mentioned in the verses that speak about the prophet Muhammed peace be upon him .
wisdom is wisdom but if you are trying to raise one prophet higher than another you are going against Allahs book.