INQUIRY
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Peace David
Thanks for the article.
I am reading Asad's translation (the message) nowadays, and i think this translation is one of the best translations i have read.
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Ironic that Asad is mentioned here, I quote
Asad spoke of Islam thus
"Islam appears to me like a perfect work of architecture. All its parts are harmoniously conceived to complement and support each other; nothing is superfluous and nothing lacking; and the result is a structure of absolute balance and solid composure."
Also
Within the framework of established knowledge of physics and cosmology, our universe could be one of many in a super-universe or multiverse. Linde (1990, 1994) has proposed that a background space-time "foam" empty of matter and radiation will experience local quantum fluctuations in curvature, forming many bubbles of false vacuum that individually inflate into mini-universes with random characteristics. Each universe within the multiverse can have a different set of constants and physical laws. Some might have life of a form different from ours; others might have no life at all or something even more complex or so different that we cannot even imagine it. Obviously we are in one of those universes with life.
Victor J. Stenger -
I just finished reading Asad's autobiography a few days ago. He came from a unique perspective (born into a Jewish family, lived in Europe, well traveled in Muslim countries, journalist/observer, met many leaders, learnt Arabic, spent time with Bedouins, completely emersed himself in the people), hence probably why his translation is so different and one of the best. His main advantage was perhaps he brought the Western "scientific/rational" mind and combined this with the spiritual embrace he found in the East. However, one trait often not discussed that is crucial in order to understand/translate The Quran is the translator's heart the orientation of their inner compass. Examples of this are evident throughout his autobiography.
Of course, no translation is perfect.
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I guess if you're married and want to spend eternity with your spouse, this will be the case, insha'allah. http//foolstown.com/sm/dan.gif
The handsome boys are for those of us who are not married, like me. There's gotta be fairness, right?
Disclaimer This post is tongue-in-cheek!Peace,
Respectfully.I guess you're right.
Being a 32-year-old virgin, i always imagine a mansion with plenty of ladies .....Peace.
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Being a 32-year-old virgin, i always imagine a mansion with plenty of ladies .....
Peace Alen,
Exactly - it's what you imagine. However, the god says that only those with blurriness in their hearts seek to know the original meaning of allegories like mansions and spouses. As a guy who remained chaste until marriage, but got married at 20, let me assure you that the god's paradise is a lot better than our earthly reproductive activities. Sometimes we build up sex to be this earth-shattering thing, especially with Hollywood these days.
As per 3217, we truly are mentally unable to imagine the happiness of the end time.
37 He is the one who descended on you the book.
From it are judging signs that are the origin of the book,
and others that are allegorical.
So in the case of
(1) Those in whose hearts there is blurriness, they pursue what is allegorical from it (the book) desiring the "fitnah"/trial/affliction and desiring its (the book's) original interpretation.
And none knows its (the book's) original interpretation except the god. And,
(2) Those who are firmly grounded in knowledge say "We have faith in it (the book), both (types of signs) are from our Lord."
And none remembers other than those with intellectual faculties.So, if I make any definite claims to know the original meaning behind the allegories of the great reading, I'd have to keep myself in check and blame myself for the blurriness in my own heart. Another important reason we must keep our sexual fantasies from interfering with our interpretation of the glorious reading (al-quran al-magid) is that the book is intended for audiences young and old. When we teach children about the signs of the god, we better remind them of 37 so that they too can appreciate the allegories of the book. Naturally, we would not be telling little kids about "mansions full of ladies", especially since monogamy is the normal way of life down here on earth.
Allow me to use one final example the "rivers of intoxicants" mentioned in the wise reading (al-quran al-hakim). They're allegorical, obviously, so we would teach ourselves and our offspring that they're merely a symbol. If we start hyping up intoxicants and equating them with the god's paradise - literally - then our children may want to experiment with drugs in their youth, to "get a taste of paradise", so to speak. I don't have to tell you about how easy it is to get drugs in the UK - it's just as easy where I'm from (Canada) and where I live now (USA).
In brief, there is a real danger in interpreting allegories literally, especially for our youth. If I am lucky enough to have or adopt a child, I don't want him/her craving orgies because I made allegories into literal things for him. Furthermore, I don't want people (virgins) to get a false impression about sex. Mountains will not trans-locate, the skies will not tear apart, and it will not rain for 40 days and 40 nights after your wedding night. Sex is nothing compared to the paradise (frds). I believe the god has prepared for us something beyond our wildest imaginations, and sex will pale in comparison.
Peace,
-David
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let me assure you that the god's paradise is a lot better than our earthly reproductive activities. Sometimes we build up sex to be this earth-shattering thing, especially with Hollywood these days.
Furthermore, I don't want people (virgins) to get a false impression about sex. Mountains will not trans-locate, the skies will not tear apart, and it will not rain for 40 days and 40 nights after your wedding night.
Bro, not to put down your experience with sex or anything...I find these statements, in my experience, to be down playing it a bit. Hollywood/environment/peer pressure/what we teach the kids etc aside...sex/sexual attraction is a potent force to be reckoned with and with the right partner and right setting (marriage), it is a many faceted thing which is powerful in it's purpose. Yes, God's paradise is all that and more but sex here and now as well as other things are pretty damn good too. If it is something lawful, then we have a right to enjoy it as long as we don't neglect our responsibilities.
(Generally) We all have natural instincts which also shape us and our behaviour aside from external forces, which are a part of us as a whole here. We control them and use them in the right way and they are successful in helping us achieve benefits/comforts etc. On another similar subject, to tear us apart and say well that's not YOU, that's just your earthly body...your soul is free and perfectly balanced etc is kinda misleading imo. Souls have desires. 21102, 4131 etc
I find OPF's/asad's quote to sum it up quite concise "Imagine the most joyous sensations, bodily as well as emotional, accessible to man indescribable beauty, love physical and spiritual, conscious ness of fulfilment, perfect peace and harmony; and imagine these sensations intensified beyond anything imaginable in this world - and at the same time entirely different from anything imaginable and you have an inkling, however vague, of what is meant by 'paradise'."
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So, if I make any definite claims to know the original meaning behind the allegories of the great reading, I'd have to keep myself in check and blame myself for the blurriness in my own heart. Another important reason we must keep our sexual fantasies from interfering with our interpretation of the glorious reading (al-quran al-magid) is that the book is intended for audiences young and old. When we teach children about the signs of the god, we better remind them of 37 so that they too can appreciate the allegories of the book. Naturally, we would not be telling little kids about "mansions full of ladies", especially since monogamy is the normal way of life down here on earth.
But you are making very definite claims behind the "allegories of the great reading". This has nothing to do with one's " sexual fantasies"; we are told that we will have pure spouses/azwaj . What's the purpose of having a spouse? What are THEY allegorical for?
"Heaven" is an amplification of the good things we receive in this life. Like it or not and whether your experience agrees with this or not companionship-->love-->sex is intended to be an enjoyable experience as long as one doesn't bypass the boundaries. Heaven has no limitations.
It is a place/state where every wish will be granted (1631).
Peace
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The old way to describe a priestess was "virgin".
Anyway, after reading on and on about sex & drugs and whatever....
I don't feel like I've even come close to a modest gaze but, rather, found some cheezy porn
in my email.As long as we're foisting our opinions on people.
fftopicCheers ....anyway.
flap -
Sometimes one just finds cheezy nuggets, that'll totally come in handy someday.
Mazeltov
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Peace,
Yes, God's paradise is all that and more but sex here and now as well as other things are pretty damn good too. If it is something lawful, then we have a right to enjoy it as long as we don't neglect our responsibilities.
As with most things, really depends on one's perception...
"The mind is its own place, and in itself/ Can make a Heaven of Hell, a Hell of Heaven." -- Paradise Lost (poem by Milton)
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Peace,
As with most things, really depends on one's perception...
"The mind is its own place, and in itself/ Can make a Heaven of Hell, a Hell of Heaven." -- Paradise Lost (poem by Milton)
Agreed. Where the problem arises in things like these is when there's just one way it can be when we can't prove it one way or the other.
Peace.
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What's the purpose of having a spouse? What are THEY allegorical for?
Peace Jack,
As per 226, 37 and 7431, I wouldn't be asking those questions, nor would I dare try to conjecture an answer. I don't know what the end time (yawm al-akhir) is like. I can't "see past the flames of hell" for what they really are, nor can I "see through the leaves of the garden" for what's really inside. Hence the use of allegories all throughout the great reading (al-quran al-adhim). I try to keep my heart humble for my creator; when he tells me something is allegorical, I don't venture a guess at its tawil/original meaning.
226 The god is not shy in citing the example of a mosquito, or anything above it. Those who had faith know that it is the truth from their lord, while those who rejected say, "What did the god want with this example?" He sends atray many with it, and he guides many with it. He does not send astray except the corruptors.
37 He is the one who descended to you the book; of it are judging signs which are the essence of the book, and others are allegorical. Those who had blurriness in their hearts will pursue what is allegorical of it, seeking temptation and seeking its original meaning. None knows its original meaning except the god. Those rooted in knowledge say, "We believe in it; all is from our lord."
7431 Those who had sickness in their hearts say, "What did the god want with this example?" As such, the god sends atray whom he willed and guided whome he willed. None knows the soldiers of your lord except he.
We are told that there will be a tree growing in the fire of hell, right? See 3762. We know that trees cannot grow out of fire, so we accept the allegory and humble ourselves for the god. There is something behind that allegory that we do not know. The god knows what we do not.
1760 We did not make the vision we showed you except as a test for the people, and the tree that is cursed in the reading (quran).
I did not make any definitive claims about the meaning of allegories in the great reading, nor would I as per 226, 37, and 7431. There's no shame in sex, nor did I imply that there is, but the end time is unimaginable. Simply put we cannot imagine it. Yes, we will get whatever we want, if we make it. What makes you think you're going to want earthly things? Isn't the god's paradise greater?
Being a 32-year-old virgin, i always imagine a mansion with plenty of ladies .....
Let's not be so shallow. My only point was that instead of sitting around fantasizing about "mansions full of ladies", let's understand the allegorical nature and instead pursue signs that will judge to make this world a better place - in good-doing (ihsan), peacemaking (islam) and faith (iman). The person who mentioned the brothel version of paradise even attributed it to his own advanced virginity, no offense intended, so I can see where it comes from.
Peace,
-David
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My understanding is that we return to the god all alone, as individuals for judgement. Then, we join the righteous of our worldly friends and family, but instead of maintaining those worldly relationships, we will be one family in a different sense altogether. I believe it will be totally different from what we can imagine because of 3217.
I guess you're right.
Being a 32-year-old virgin, i always imagine a mansion with plenty of ladies .....Lighten up, guys, my post was tongue-in-cheeck. I agree with all those posters who think that these verses are to be understood as an allegory.
peace
That said, I found some of the descriptions / explanations I have read on traditional or Salafi websites pretty disgusting. They don't sound like descriptions of paradise but like some dirty old men's phantasies about an eternal brothelhouse. And when being asked why the delights that supposedly expect the believer in paradies are being described in detail for the men but not for the woman, the scholars reply that women get "something similar", but due to their modesty and shyness God refrained from explaining them in detail.
) ) )
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And moreover then what was the need for doing this
Even if "abkara" was about virginity in the passage, it would still be an allegory. However, "abkara" probably refers more to the women of the god's paradise as being foremost in virtue/enlightenment/honor/goodness/etc. The word refers to the early morning in about a dozen passages (e.g. 341, 489). So how can it describe a woman? Just as the morning is the first light, women of that description are first in obtaining the god's light.
Peace,
-David
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Question If a woman is killed as a martyr for the sake of Allaah, how does the hadeeth ?The shaheed will be married to seventy-two hoor al-?iyn? apply to her?
Answer Praise be to Allaah.
We put this question to Shaykh ?Abd-Allaah ibn Jibreen, may Allaah preserve him, who answered as follows
This number is only for men. A woman will have only one husband in Paradise, and she will be satisfied with him and will not need any more than that.
The Muslim woman ? who is not influenced by the claims of those who propagate permissiveness and knows that she is not like men in her make-up and nature, because Allaah has made her like that ? does not object to the rulings of Allaah or feel angry. Rather she accepts what Allaah has decreed for her. Her sound nature tells her that she cannot live with more than one man at a time. So long as she has entered Paradise, she will have all that she desires, so she should not dispute now about the delights and rewards that her Lord has chosen for her, for your Lord does not treat anyone unjustly. If she is one of the people of Paradise, then she is included, like men, in the words of Allaah (interpretation of the meaning)
?Trays of gold and cups will be passed round them; (there will be) therein all that inner-selves could desire, and all that eyes could delight in and you will abide therein forever?
We ask Allaah for al-Firdaws, the highest part of Paradise. May Allaah bless our Prophet Muhammad.
http//www.islam-qa.com/en/ref/11419
;D ;D ;D
One of the best things that people long for in the Hereafter is, for men, the women of Paradise, namely al-hoor al-?iyn, and for women there is an equivalent delight. By His great wisdom, Allaah has not mentioned what the women will have as the equivalent of al-hoor al-?iyn for men, and that is due to modesty and shyness. How can He encourage them to seek Paradise by mentioning something that they are too shy and modest to mention or speak about themselves? So He has simply hinted at it ...
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Ibn al-Qayyim said
Allaah describes them as being ?guarded in pavilions?, i.e., they are prevented from making a display of themselves before anyone except their husbands. They are guarded for their husbands and they do not go out of their houses, and they restrain themselves for them and do not desire anyone else. And Allaah describes them as ?QaasiraatutTarf
they said, (it means) they will be busy deflowering virgins. Ibn ?Abbaas (may Allaah be pleased with him) said, according to a report narrated from him, that ?busy in joyful things? means listening to stringed instruments. Abu Haatim said he misheard the phrase iftidaad al-abkaar (deflowering virgins) and thought it was samaa? al-awtaar (listening to stringed instruments). In fact the correct phrase is iftidaad al-abkaar (deflowering virgins). (Ibn Katheer, 3/564)
http//www.islam-qa.com/en/ref/10053
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Wow Leyna. I didn't realise it was that bad!
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Even if "abkara" was about virginity in the passage, it would still be an allegory. However, "abkara" probably refers more to the women of the god's paradise as being foremost in virtue/enlightenment/honor/goodness/etc. The word refers to the early morning in about a dozen passages (e.g. 341, 489). So how can it describe a woman? Just as the morning is the first light, women of that description are first in obtaining the god's light.
Peace,
-David
But the problem is that it is the second direct object of the verb, and this is different not to be misunderstood with the word denoting morning . The word denoting Virginity is also used twice with reference towomen; and placing these two words together would also indicate the difference between both the two. Virginity is virginity, I don't know what could be allegorical in it.
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It would be hilarious if it wasn't so...downright creepy! They actually go with this stuff don't they, I find that scary as hell.
