4:34
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An excellent explanation and deduction from a person I believe is Dr. Gadidut S. Adiosoma (not one hundred percent sure) about why verse 434 does not mean BEAT your wife, but DRIVE HER OUT (as a last resort.)
Even Dr. Khalifa's translation for this is "beat her"
The page I took this from also has an article on usury but I did not read it and do not know what he is discussing, this thread is about verse 434 and whether it really means beat your wife or something else.
Whomever wrote this article and clarified this, May God be pleased with him.
http//www.quran.org/unarticles.txt
"Verse 434 of the Quran orders believers to beat their wives; so, Islam is
a male dominant religion." Many of us have heard this criticism from
Christians, atheists, agnostics, etc. Personally, every time I read 434, I
felt that something was wrong. How does God, the Most Wise order us to beat
our women? What kind of solution is that? It is in contrast to the verses
in which God describes marriage"Among His signs is that He created for you spouses from among yourselves,
in order to have tranquility and contentment with each other. He places in
your heart love and care towards your spouses. In this, there are signs for
people who think." (3021)Obviously, this mixed messages have bothered many contemporary translators
of the Quran. To avoid the moral and intellectual problems, they tried to
soften the word "beat" when they translate the verse 434. For instance,
Yusuf Ali uses a merciful parentheses after "beat" to save women". . . As to those women on whose part you fear disloyalty and ill-conduct,
admonish them (first), (next), refuse to share their beds, (and last) beat
them (lightly). . ." (434)Many tried to "beat" around the bush to "beat" the problem generated by the
"beat" of 434.When I finished the Turkish translation (1991), this verse was on the top
of my orange list to study carefully. Whenever I encounter a problem
regarding the understanding of a Quranic verse, I remember 20114 and pray
accordingly "Most Exalted is God, the only true King. Do not rush into
(understanding) the Quran before it is revealed to you, an say, 'My Lord,
increase my knowledge.'"Almost all of the translations have mistranslated the four key words or
terms of this particular verse. These are "Qawwamune," "Faddallallahu
ba'dahum ala ba'd," "Nushuzehunne," and "Fadribuhunne." In our late book,
"Errors in Turkish Translations" (Istanbul, 1992) we have discussed the
real meaning of these words and the motivation and reasons for
mistranslating them. Here, we will focus on the last word, "Fadribuhunne."A Famous Multi-Meaning Word
The problem comes from the word "Idribuhunne" which we used to translate as
"beat them". The root of this word is "DaRaBa". If you look at any Arabic
dictionary you will find a long list of meanings ascribed to this word.
That list is one of the longest list in whole Arabic dictionary. It can be
said that "DaRaBa" is the number-one multi-meaning word in Arabic. It has
so many different meanings, we can find numerous different meanings
ascribed to it in the Quran.To travel, to get out 3156; 4101; 3844; 7320; 2273
To strike 260,73; 7160; 812; 2077; 2431; 2663; 3793; 474
To beat 850; 4727
To set up 4358; 5713
To give (examples) 1424,45; 1675,76,112; 1832,45; 2435; 3028,58;
3678; 3927,29; 4317; 5921; 6610,11
To take away, to ignore 435
To condemn 261
To seal, to draw over 1811
To cover 2431
To explain 1317As you see, in Quran alone we can witness the verb "DaRaBa" having at least
ten different meanings. "DaRaBa" has also other meanings which are not
mentioned in the Quran. For example, in the Arabic language, you do not
print money--you "DaRaBa" money, you do not multiply numbers--you "DaRaBa"
numbers, you do not cease the work--you "DaRaBa" the work. In Turkish we
have many verbs similar to DaRaBa, such as "tutmak", "calmak", "vurmak"
etc. In English we have two verbs which are almost equivalent to "DaRaBa".
These are "strike" and "beat".Webster's Dictionary gives fourteen meanings to the verb "strike" hit
(against); ignite; (of snake) bite; (of plants) (cause to) take root;
attack; hook (fish); sound (time) as bell in clock etc.; affect; arrive at,
come upon; enter mind of; discover (gold, oil etc.); dismantle, remove;
make (coin); cease work as protest or to make demands. The same dictionary
gives eight meanings to the verb "beat" strike repeatedly; overcome;
surpass; stir vigorously with striking action; flap (wings); make, wear
(path); throb; sail against wind.In the beginning of this article (underlined) I deliberately used "beat" in
three different meanings in a single statement just to show the variety of
meanings in a single word. In English, when we order someone to "beat it"
we mean "get out". Similarly in Arabic, when we order someone with the
commend form of "DaRaBa", that is "iDRiB", we mean "get out".How Can We Find The Appropriate Meaning
When we encounter a multi-meaning word, we select the proper meaning
according to the context, forms, and common sense. For instance, if we had
have translated "DaRaBa" in 1317 as "beat" instead of "explain", the
meaning would be ridiculous". . . God thus beats the truth and falsehood." (1317)
Another example of mistranslation of "DaRaBa" can be found in the
translation of 3844. All the translations (except Dr. Khalifa's
translation) inject a male-made story to justify their silly translation.
Here is how Yusuf Ali translates the verse about Job"And take in the hand a little grass, and strike therewith and break not
(the oath)."
Yusuf Ali, in the footnote narrates the traditional story "He (Job) must
have said in his haste to the woman that he would beat her he is asked now
to correct her with only a wisp of grass, to show that he was gentle and
humble as well as patient and constant."However, without injecting this story, we can translate it as the following
"Now, you shall travel the land to fulfill your pledge (that is to deliver
the message)." We found him steadfast. What a good servant! He was a
submitter." (3844)Let's turn back to 434
Additionally, the word "Nushuz" which is generally translated as
"opposition" has another meaning which can be translated as degrees of
disloyalty ranging from flirtation to sexual liaison. If we study 434
carefully we will find a clue that leads us to translate that word as
"flirting or cheating" or "extramarital affair" (Any word or words that
reflect the range of disloyalty in marriage). The clue is the phrase before
"Nushuz" as reads ". . . and observe God's commandments, even when alone
in their privacy." This phrase emphasizes the importance of loyalty in
marriage life.Furthermore, the same word "Nushuz" is used in 4128, but it is used to
describe the misbehavior of husbands not wives as was in 434. So, the
traditional translation of "Nushuz", that is, "opposition" will not fit
here. In vertical relations, "opposition" cannot be a double-edged
behavior. So, translators try to avoid this contradiction by ascribing
just the opposite meaning of "opposition", i.e., "oppression" in verse
4128. However, the meaning of "Nushuz" as "disloyalty" is appropriate for
both cases described in 434 and 4128.A Coherent Understanding
When we read 434 we should not understand "idribuhunne" as "beat those
women". We must remember that this word has many meanings. God gives us
three ways of dealing with extra-marital-affair. In the beginning stage of
such misbehavior husband should start from giving advice. If it does not
work and she goes further and commit a proven adultery, that time husband
has the right to strike them out (434 & 651).Let's present our suggestion for the translation of verse 434
"Men take care of women, since God has endowed each of them with certain
qualities and men spend from their financial resources. The righteous women
are obedient (to God) and during the absence (of their husband) they honor
them according to God's commandment. As for those women whom you are
experiencing a fear of disloyalty from, you shall first advice them, then
(if they continue) you may desert them in bed, then you may strike them
out. If they obey you then don't transgress against them. God is Most High,
Supreme (434).Beating women who are cheating is not an ultimate solution; but "striking
them out" from your house is the best solution. And it is fair too. -
I strongly recommend www.Quran434.com
As far as I am aware, it is the only study that resulted in an answer that was in complete harmony with the internal examples of The Quran.
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I strongly recommend www.Quran434.com
As far as I am aware, it is the only study that resulted in an answer that was in complete harmony with the internal examples of The Quran.
Yes, the article I provided states as well that to beat your wife would be contradictory when contrasted with other verse(s) which call for compassion and restraint and to treat one's wife with respect. I'm glad that this person brought this to light as with the person who composed the article you posted, may God be pleased with them both.
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My understanding of the verse is that Idribuhunne means to tell them that you want to divorce them. Telling them that in fact satisfies all the meanings for the root. It hurts, it causes divide, it separates, it hits the heart etc etc.
"Hit her" is an appropriate translation. Of course we must note quran 419. If you hit her physically, it would fail quran 419. The person would have to end up going towards quran 243-9 if he physically accused her and hit her.
voodoo
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My understanding of the verse is that Idribuhunne means to tell them that you want to divorce them. Telling them that in fact satisfies all the meanings for the root. It hurts, it causes divide, it separates, it hits the heart etc etc.
"Hit her" is an appropriate translation. Of course we must note quran 419. If you hit her physically, it would fail quran 419. The person would have to end up going towards quran 243-9 if he physically accused her and hit her.
voodoo
Thank you for your input, it is appreciated, and thank you for directing me to these verses of which I had previously not read.
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Yes, the article I provided states as well that to beat your wife would be contradictory when contrasted with other verse(s) which call for compassion and restraint and to treat one's wife with respect.
You are partly right. The article you posted only resolves part of the harmony of the internal examples. It fails or leaves unresolved 4128 and 581-4. As I said, as far as I'm aware, the study of Quran434.com is the only study which resulted in an answer that was in complete harmony. I strongly recommend reading the study.
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Actually I just realised the article you posted (by Edip Yuksel) is critically flawed
If it does not
work and she goes further and commit a proven adultery, that time husband
has the right to strike them out (434 & 651).434 does not interject a proven adultery halfway through, it begins with a fear/suspected disloyalty and does not change. Anything to the contrary is a significant and perhaps unacceptable assumption/extrapolation. Then there is the problem of authority involvement/arbitration trying to reconcile a husband with a wife who is a proven adulterer, when The Quran says adulterers are for adulterers etc and states the punishment for such an act.
Beating women who are cheating is not an ultimate solution; but "striking
them out" from your house is the best solution. And it is fair too.See above.
I will email Edip the study of Quran434.com for his feedback.
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Actually I just realised the article you posted (by Edip Yuksel) is critically flawed
434 does not interject a proven adultery halfway through, it begins with a fear/suspected disloyalty and does not change. Anything to the contrary is a significant and perhaps unacceptable assumption/extrapolation. Then there is the problem of authority involvement/arbitration trying to reconcile a husband with a wife who is a proven adulterer, when The Quran says adulterers are for adulterers etc and states the punishment for such an act.
See above.
I will email Edip the study of Quran434.com for his feedback.
yes I came across that verse the other day, about adulterers for adulterers and the believers are forbidden from marrying them. Thank you for your thorough analysis. I will not lie, I was only interested in the part about the word in dispute and was not paying much attention to the rest of the article. Thank you for pointing this out. So to paraphrase, it most probably means cite them/involve the authorities as the third step?
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yes I came across that verse the other day, about adulterers for adulterers and the believers are forbidden from marrying them. Thank you for your thorough analysis. I will not lie, I was only interested in the part about the word in dispute and was not paying much attention to the rest of the article. Thank you for pointing this out. So to paraphrase, it most probably means cite them/involve the authorities as the third step?
You know, one of my faults is that at times I am impatient and tactless and rush things. Often on tests I would receive comments that I failed to read the instructions. This is something that I will pray to the all mighty to help me with. I apologize for annoying you for not giving the article a thorough and careful analysis and I will pray to God to help me with this, as well as thank him for blessing me with interactions with those who's wisdom I am fortunate enough to come across.
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yes I came across that verse the other day, about adulterers for adulterers and the believers are forbidden from marrying them. Thank you for your thorough analysis. I will not lie, I was only interested in the part about the word in dispute and was not paying much attention to the rest of the article. Thank you for pointing this out. So to paraphrase, it most probably means cite them/involve the authorities as the third step?
Well in my society marriage is equal and that is the basis that you start from. If one wishes to protect their assets they can get pre-nuptial agreements but then again why get married at all?
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Well in my society marriage is equal and that is the basis that you start from. If one wishes to protect their assets they can get pre-nuptial agreements but then again why get married at all?
Salaam,
I always wonder about people who sign pre-nuptial agreements before they get married. Do they marry while thinking about the possibility of a divorce? When I marry someone, I'd like to think that I'll spend the rest of my life with him ). That is the ideal situation off course.
Personally, I think the signing of such agreements means that you don't fully trust your partner. As you have said, why get married at all?
Salaam.
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Salaam,
I always wonder about people who sign pre-nuptial agreements before they get married. Do they marry while thinking about the possibility of a divorce? When I marry someone, I'd like to think that I'll spend the rest of my life with him . That is the ideal situation off course.
Personally, I think the signing of such agreements means that you don't fully trust your partner. As you have said, why get married at all?
Salaam.
trust but verify and hope for peace but prepare for war
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Salaam,
I always wonder about people who sign pre-nuptial agreements before they get married. Do they marry while thinking about the possibility of a divorce? When I marry someone, I'd like to think that I'll spend the rest of my life with him  . That is the ideal situation off course.
Personally, I think the signing of such agreements means that you don't fully trust your partner. As you have said, why get married at all?
Salaam.
Totally agree.
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Salaam,
I always wonder about people who sign pre-nuptial agreements before they get married. Do they marry while thinking about the possibility of a divorce? When I marry someone, I'd like to think that I'll spend the rest of my life with him ). That is the ideal situation off course.
Personally, I think the signing of such agreements means that you don't fully trust your partner. As you have said, why get married at all?
Salaam.
Considering the divorce rate...it's not the worst idea in the world. Trust goes both ways. If she's indeed not a trophy wife/gold digger, she will gladly sign such an agreement. Most people who get married, expects/hope it will last. But how many HAPPY marriages do last? In many cases, you find out what the REAL person is about, once you live with them for a while.
I am only speaking ideologically here.
Peace
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Well in my society marriage is equal and that is the basis that you start from. If one wishes to protect their assets they can get pre-nuptial agreements but then again why get married at all?
that doesn't explain how she would be entitled to kick you out of a house that she didn't pay for, assuming she didn't.
here let me quote what you replied to so there is no misunderstanding in my reply
"From your house? It is her house as well. Ever thought of that?"
The only way I can see that she would be able to kick you out is if she paid for it in full.
And if there was some kind of sharing in the purchase of the house, then she should not be able to kick you out without compensating you for what you paid, or vice versa. This is just my opinion though.
However this verse was referring to when a man finds out his WIFE his cheating and not vice versa, so I don't even know why you would reply the way you did.
If you wouldn't mind a woman kicking you out of a house that she did not put a penny towards, then that's your prerogative.
I'm not saying its right for a man to cheat but technically I do not believe he should be obliged to leave a house he has paid for no matter what he has done...
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that doesn't explain how she would be entitled to kick you out of a house that she didn't pay for, assuming she didn't.
here let me quote what you replied to so there is no misunderstanding in my reply
"From your house? It is her house as well. Ever thought of that?"
The only way I can see that she would be able to kick you out is if she paid for it in full.
And if there was some kind of sharing in the purchase of the house, then she should not be able to kick you out without compensating you for what you paid, or vice versa. This is just my opinion though.
However this verse was referring to when a man finds out his WIFE his cheating and not vice versa, so I don't even know why you would reply the way you did.
If you wouldn't mind a woman kicking you out of a house that she did not put a penny towards, then that's your prerogative.
I'm not saying its right for a man to cheat but technically I do not believe he should be obliged to leave a house he has paid for no matter what he has done...
I believe there are verses which outline the issue of the dowry which must be compensated/given back when a divorce is taking place. Other than that I don't see why she would be entitled to anything (including a house) which she did not pay for.
I am open to arguments though and different points of view and pointing out things that I may have overlooked
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that doesn't explain how she would be entitled to kick you out of a house that she didn't pay for, assuming she didn't.
here let me quote what you replied to so there is no misunderstanding in my reply
"From your house? It is her house as well. Ever thought of that?"
The only way I can see that she would be able to kick you out is if she paid for it in full.
And if there was some kind of sharing in the purchase of the house, then she should not be able to kick you out without compensating you for what you paid, or vice versa. This is just my opinion though.
However this verse was referring to when a man finds out his WIFE his cheating and not vice versa, so I don't even know why you would reply the way you did.
If you wouldn't mind a woman kicking you out of a house that she did not put a penny towards, then that's your prerogative.
I'm not saying its right for a man to cheat but technically I do not believe he should be obliged to leave a house he has paid for no matter what he has done...
I don't think you understand that people are equal in marriage. A woman typically raises the family and the man typically works to provide but they are equal and the assets they acquire are acquired together. Let's not focus too specifically on the issue because I think my reply is the accurate moral sense of what should be done in divorce. Naturally I agree that we each bring to a marriage different assets and that these should go back to the person that owned them. Houses and businesses and investments are trickier to split. Do not forget that had the woman known that she was getting divorced she would probably have not spent her time as she did and would have worked on acquiring assets and money. And the wife often provides the emotional strength and security the man needed to succeed in his work. Finally if there are children they are best raised by the wife, assuming she is of sound mind and the family home is best for this. But again it is often simpler to sell the house, split the money and move on.
