Tattoos Taboo for a Muslim?

[Sirius]

Assalamu alaykum

Occult symbols http//www.crossroad.to/Books/symbols1.html

lol so everything is an occult symbol. Even the humble circle made it into the list. Just because people attach certain meanings to tertian shapes, that doesn't mean they take on that meaning.

[Prince]

I don't see how anyone can make tattoos forbidden by this quranic ayah....its a weak interpretation at best

4119 And I will mislead them, and I will arouse in them desires, and I will command them so they will slit the ears of cattle, and I will command them so they will change the creation of Allah." And whoever takes Satan as an ally instead of Allah has certainly sustained a clear loss.

I think cross referencing of words and cross analysis is needed because if Allah wanted to make tattoos forbidden he would have CLEARLY stated so. Would anyone say shaving is forbidden too as that is changing the creation of Allah.

PEACE

[Jack]

^^ I think the 'change in creation' is a psychological change, rather than a physical one. Physical makes no sense here.

So basically, psychological abuse (which COULD be a result of physical abuse) and the like/ "altering" God's creation in a regressive manner.

[Prince]

^^ I think the 'change in creation' is a psychological change, rather than a physical one. Physical makes no sense here.

So basically, psychological abuse (which COULD be a result of physical abuse) and the like/ "altering" God's creation in a regressive manner.

Yes that could possibly be a better interpretation but I feel that the verse best suits CIRCUMCISION. It's something that is still practiced worldwide and the slitting of the cattles ear in the verse could be pointing to this.

PEACE

[Faithful-Jinn]

Upon further thought I'm beginning to think I will go through with finishing my tattoos.

"And I will surely lead them astray, and I will certainly arouse desires in them, and I will definitely order them so they will pierce animals? ears, and I will definitely order them so they will alter Allah?s creation"; and whoever chooses the devil for a friend instead of Allah, has indeed suffered a manifest loss.

Reflecting on this verse I'm thinking it doesn't make sense that any physical changes to the body are meant here though it does mention the piercing of animals' ears because if the verse is meant to prohibit tattoos then it MUST prohibit any and all other forms of body modification from piercings to tattoos to coloring the hair to shaving. Surely those things alter our physical bodies but they can't all be sins. A literal interpretation of this verse is a blanket prohibition against changing the body in any way. I've definitely come to the conclusion that no verse in the Qur'an specifically prohibits tattoos but I will still keep in mind that I may be exceeding the limits and I'll give it a few years before I do my left arm to see if the tattoo bug is still there hehe

And if the hadith have even a hint of basis in truth then I shouldn't worry because another hadith says

(Sahih Muslim Book 32, Number 6220)
This hadith has been transmitted on the authority of Abu Huraira (Radi Allah Anhu) with some addition (and it is this)
"Verily Allah does not look to your bodies nor to your faces but He looks to your hearts,"
And he pointed towards the heart with his fingers.

[harris]

I've definitely come to the conclusion that no verse in the Qur'an specifically prohibits tattoos but I will still keep in mind that I may be exceeding the limits and I'll give it a few years before I do my left arm to see if the tattoo bug is still there hehe

Salam jinn,
Here's wat i was thinking. Although there isn't any verse in the Holy Book that 'specifically' prohibits tattoos, there are other verses that give us an answer to the point in question. Have a look

Do not be like those who left their homes grudgingly, only to show off
"You shall not treat the people with arrogance, nor shall you roam the earth proudly. GOD does not like the arrogant showoffs.

Since tattoos have no specific benefit other than 'showing off', to feel unique and stand apart from the crowd, the Holy Book does prohibit the showing off of ourself. It is better to be modest.
Overall, tattoos are not prohibited in the Quran. However, we need to decide for ourselves what would be socially appropriate not drawing too much attention.

And if the hadith have even a hint of basis in truth then I shouldn't worry because another hadith says

(Sahih Muslim Book 32, Number 6220)
This hadith has been transmitted on the authority of Abu Huraira (Radi Allah Anhu) with some addition (and it is this)
"Verily Allah does not look to your bodies nor to your faces but He looks to your hearts,"
And he pointed towards the heart with his fingers.

The authority of the father of cats who has quoted more hadiths than is humanly possible (unless he lived 24/7 with the Prophet and had a voice recorder) is best left forgotten. Instead of being a servant of GOD, he seems to have had other plans

http//rlv.zcache.com/from_the_cats_fathers_day_card-p1370559323403396978g3x_325.jpg

Peace

[Prince]

Salam jinn,
Here's wat i was thinking. Although there isn't any verse in the Holy Book that 'specifically' prohibits tattoos, there are other verses that give us an answer to the point in question. Have a look

Do not be like those who left their homes grudgingly, only to show off
"You shall not treat the people with arrogance, nor shall you roam the earth proudly. GOD does not like the arrogant showoffs.

Since tattoos have no specific benefit other than 'showing off', to feel unique and stand apart from the crowd, the Holy Book does prohibit the showing off of ourself. It is better to be modest.

Evidence please? Going by your logic I guess make up would fall into this category or do you place an exception to that? The verse in question talks about walking the earth proudly which one cannot place a blanket prohibition on things, this is a big mistake unfortunately abused by scholars and the like.

Arrogance is something that is WITHIN you not OUTSIDE of you.

PEACE

[harris]

Evidence please? Going by your logic I guess make up would fall into this category or do you place an exception to that? The verse in question talks about walking the earth proudly which one cannot place a blanket prohibition on things, this is a big mistake unfortunately abused by scholars and the like.

Arrogance is something that is WITHIN you not OUTSIDE of you.

PEACE

Salaam Prince,

I still believe the quoted verse (311 means outside appearance as well. I'll tell you why.

The Holy Book tells us there is even an OUTSIDE difference between people who are arrogant and those who are modest in sura 3359
O prophet, tell your wives, your daughters, and the wives of the believers that they shall lengthen their garments. Thus, they will be recognized (as righteous women) and avoid being insulted.

If outer appearance did not affect modesty, why the instruction on garments? I wouldn't wanna comment on 'make-up' as it is an individual's freedom to make themselves look attractive (as long as they're not screaming for attention). But going over the top without any apparent reason (which includes tattoos, piercing and plastic surgery) certainly needs to be pondered about.

http//1.bp.blogspot.com/_ZgtAuULcmcQ/SgxsePiiIuI/AAAAAAAAAGc/7b7UrPnnZ8U/s400/grandma+with+tattoos+on+her+entire+body.jpg

http//www.tattootattoo.info/up/neck-tattoo-1123629979878.jpg

http//www.hypnotiqueolmecpunch.org/Images/Strange%20Cat%20Woman.jpg

http//bloodlessness.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/02/extreme_piercings_female-corset-piercing.jpg

http//www.extremefunnyhumor.com/pics/embedded-tattoos_4.jpg

I guess simple small tattoos can't be really classified as immodest. But as seen in the cases above, where do we draw the line?
But i'm no judge. The Holy Book has given us enough breathing space, so judge for yourself.

In the end, Allah knows best.
Peace.

[Emil]

Since tattoos have no specific benefit other than 'showing off', to feel unique and stand apart from the crowd, the Holy Book does prohibit the showing off of ourself. It is better to be modest.
Overall, tattoos are not prohibited in the Quran. However, we need to decide for ourselves what would be socially appropriate not drawing too much attention.
Peace

PEOPLE!!

Jeez......learn the history of tattoos before having an opinion about if it is prohibited or not according to the Quran. Tattoos are much much more than what you think, OK? It is just in the last 20 years the meaning of tattoos have been diluted, now becoming trendy.

Tattooing is an artform. It has a very complex and complicating symbolism that is very difficult to understand. The original tattoos were used to identify Roman slaves and soldiers in case they escaped or deserted. The latin word for tattoo is "stigma" which means shameful mark. When emperor Konstantin became christian many of the pagan traditions were banned. For some odd reason tattooing was banned as well. It was not many hundreds of years later when sailors came home covered in tattoos from places far away that the artform as we know it took shape. The word "tattoo" comes from Tahitian "taw-taw" where young men had to endure the pain in order to be considered adult men.
For the Europeans, tattoos had symbolic meanings. They could show where you came from, where you been, what kind of person you were. Some tell a story about you, some tell others what to do with your body once you die. You know what a spiderweb represents? You used to be in prison. A dagger? You killed someone. What about the japanese Yakuza? Every tattoo on their bodies have a meaning.The three dots you sometimes see on old guys hands? that comes from the great US depression in the thirties. How about sailor's tattoos? Well they got tattooed instead of buying souveniers. Your skin could not get stolen, nor was it heavy to carry.

The reason behind the modern tattoo art form was never beautification. It was symbolism of who you were. So is it haram?

Arab women used to tattoo themselves in order to become more beautiful. Is using your beauty to get what you want haram? They also believed tattoos were magical, enabling them to become pregnant. Is being supersticious haram?

Today's tattooing is a mix using European style tattoos with the intent of the Arab women. Well, most people's tattoos anyway..

Harris has a point. If you are getting a tattoo to "show off", then it is not so good. If you are doing it because the tattoo you are getting really means something to you, then by all means.

[Prince]

Salaam Prince,

I still believe the quoted verse (311 means outside appearance as well. I'll tell you why.

The Holy Book tells us there is even an OUTSIDE difference between people who are arrogant and those who are modest in sura 3359
O prophet, tell your wives, your daughters, and the wives of the believers that they shall lengthen their garments. Thus, they will be recognized (as righteous women) and avoid being insulted.

If outer appearance did not affect modesty, why the instruction on garments? I wouldn't wanna comment on 'make-up' as it is an individual's freedom to make themselves look attractive (as long as they're not screaming for attention). But going over the top without any apparent reason (which includes tattoos, piercing and plastic surgery) certainly needs to be pondered about.

Salaam harris.

My comment was in regards to arrogance not modesty so I don't know why you've jumped from one to another to prove a point?! There's no question that some messengers i.e Solomon have enjoyed vast kingdoms but yet were righteous proving my point that arrogance/being proud is WITHIN you and we are told not have that ATTITUDE.

In regards to modesty yes there are verses that talk about modest dress but that is not what we are talking about but since you mentioned the verse above I have to point out that the verse talks about being insulted imho and not in regards to (as righteous women) because it's not there in arabic.

However I do agree modesty is linked to dress code which does vary throughout nations. I have noticed many posts and in the world on male interpreting how women should dress etc. But the fact remains these verses are for women from God and no one has any right to interpret them except women on their own individual basis. peace

PEACE

[Jack]

Harris, do you work for Fox news? The sensationalist images are eerily familiar.

Idea post mime images to make some random, off-tangent point about 'make-up'.

[savage_carrot]

Idea post mime images to make some random point about 'make-up'.

I'd totally love a thread about mimes and make-up.

Wait, that wasn't the point was it...nvm D

[harris]

Harris, do you work for Fox news? The sensationalist images are eerily familiar.

Idea post mime images to make some random, off-tangent point about 'make-up'.

Okkk.... i get the point Jack.... guess i'm still a bit "traditional" in some aspects compared to all those tattoo sportin, vodka gulpin, lip-piercin, tough macho men out there... giveup

but me workin for Fox news? pleeeeeez! i'd rather be a hermit laugh

[harris]

If you are getting a tattoo to "show off", then it is not so good. If you are doing it because the tattoo you are getting really means something to you, then by all means.

Emil, you took the words ryt outta my mouth-- U DA MAN!

peace.

[Faithful-Jinn]

Salam jinn,
Here's wat i was thinking. Although there isn't any verse in the Holy Book that 'specifically' prohibits tattoos, there are other verses that give us an answer to the point in question. Have a look

Do not be like those who left their homes grudgingly, only to show off
"You shall not treat the people with arrogance, nor shall you roam the earth proudly. GOD does not like the arrogant showoffs.

Since tattoos have no specific benefit other than 'showing off', to feel unique and stand apart from the crowd, the Holy Book does prohibit the showing off of ourself. It is better to be modest.
Overall, tattoos are not prohibited in the Quran. However, we need to decide for ourselves what would be socially appropriate not drawing too much attention.

The authority of the father of cats who has quoted more hadiths than is humanly possible (unless he lived 24/7 with the Prophet and had a voice recorder) is best left forgotten. Instead of being a servant of GOD, he seems to have had other plans

http//rlv.zcache.com/from_the_cats_fathers_day_card-p1370559323403396978g3x_325.jpg

Peace

I agree with what you're saying it's the reason I stopped wearing earrings all the time I felt I was being too flashy and I realized that I enjoyed the complements from the ladies too much better to be humble and ugly than attractive and proud. And I don't give much weight to hadith was just showing an example of how hadith can say completely opposite things.

Still not sure if my earrings were an outright sin in themselves but the things they led to may have been sins (complements, flirting, causing girls to look at me) and the same may be said of tattoos. They might not be a sin in themselves but the results of having visible tattoos may be a sin. Like now I make sure to cover up almost every time I leave the house for the sake of modesty so if you weren't a close friend of mine you wouldn't even know I had ink. I'm definitely conscious of the fact that what I'm doing may count against me on judgment day though I think the pictures shown of people with ridiculous tattoos on their face and just really taking it overboard doesn't really do the normal person with tattoos justice none of us is trying to look like a lizard or walking around outside in a bikini to show off our tattoos those pictures all show people taking it to the extreme....

The fact of the matter is it's beautifying yourself so I don't see too much of a problem with tattooing it is probably a sin but on that note so is make-up, hair coloring, piercings, certain methods of hygiene to make yourself more attractive, and countless other things we do to make our appearance look better for others. A tattoo can easily be covered with clothes so just because someone has tattoos doesn't necessarily mean they're a show-off or immodest.

[Jack]

Okkk.... i get the point Jack.... guess i'm still a bit "traditional" in some aspects compared to all those tattoo sportin, vodka gulpin, lip-piercin, tough macho men out there... giveup

but me workin for Fox news? pleeeeeez! i'd rather be a hermit laugh

Are you claiming all tattoo sportin' people are 'vodka gulipin, lip-piercin, macho men'?

To those who say they are against tattoos because it's considered 'showing off', please produce your definition of 'showing off'. Have you ever dressed nicely for an occasion? That's showing off. Why buy a new-model car? That's showing off. Why have a nice wedding reception? Showing off. Look nice for a girl maybe? Show off!
It's all about perception/intention/purpose.

For the record, I have no tattoos.

I am just saying the logic you employ is not that different from that of fox news. Sensationalist images, show images out of context to make a preconceived point, and the clear bias. You are not arguing with reason, but with emotion.

[Emil]

Are you claiming all tattoo sportin' people are 'vodka gulipin, lip-piercin, macho men'?

To those who say they are against tattoos because it's considered 'showing off', please produce your definition of 'showing off'. Have you ever dressed nicely for an occasion? That's showing off. Why buy a new-model car? That's showing off. Why have a nice wedding reception? Showing off. Look nice for a girl maybe? Show off!
It's all about perception/intention/purpose.

For the record, I have no tattoos.

I am just saying the logic you employ is not that different from that of fox news. Sensationalist images, show images out of context to make a preconceived point, and the clear bias. You are not arguing with reason, but with emotion.

Jack

Do you buy a Porsche because you want to lengthen your manhood or do you buy it because it is a really really good car? Larger penis please Show off
Do you have a really nice and posh wedding because you want to show everybody you can afford it or has it been a dream since you were a little boy? I got more money than you Show off
Do you comb your hair and smell nice because chicks dig it or are you doing it so the one girl you are secretely in love with will notice you? I get all the honey Show off
Do you get a tattoo because you wanna be macho and cool or because the symbol representents something to you? I am macho and drink vodka til I puke and I got the tats to prove it Show off

There is a difference between show off and enjoying life. And show off doesnt work without jealousy, remember that.

[Leyna]

To those who say they are against tattoos because it's considered 'showing off', please produce your definition of 'showing off'. Have you ever dressed nicely for an occasion? That's showing off. Why buy a new-model car? That's showing off. Why have a nice wedding reception? Showing off. Look nice for a girl maybe? Show off!
It's all about perception/intention/purpose.

Exactly. Some people seem to feel that beautifying yourself in any way is wrong, but that seems quite extreme to me. We are born with a sense of beauty and aesthetics, nothing wrong with enjoying beauty in nature, people, clothes, colors etc.

Besides, the Qur'an states that God gave us clothes for covering but also for beautification

O ye Children of Adam! We have bestowed raiment upon you to cover your shame, as well as to be an adornment to you. ?
(726)

[BornAgain]

Just to add to the discussion. I agree that there is nothing wrong with beautifying oneself, but I believe we have to consider the social values when we adorn ourselves (in order to meet the modesty standard). In some countries, tattoos may look very intimidating and immodest, hence why I think it will be better to avoid it. Whereas in other countries, not so much.

So it's not really whether the type of adornment/jeweleries/accessories/clothing that matter is okay, it's not as black and white. I think we have to consider the environment where we live in, whether it is an acceptable code of dressing. Just my two cents.

[Emil]

Just to add to the discussion. I agree that there is nothing wrong with beautifying oneself, but I believe we have to consider the social values when we adorn ourselves (in order to meet the modesty standard). In some countries, tattoos may look very intimidating and immodest, hence why I think it will be better to avoid it. Whereas in other countries, not so much.

So it's not really whether the type of adornment/jeweleries/accessories/clothing that matter is okay, it's not as black and white. I think we have to consider the environment where we live in, whether it is an acceptable code of dressing. Just my two cents.

I agree BornAgain up to a point. If you want to roam naked in the streets and you happen to live in a society where that is considered really rude, then you should refrain from it....or move.....to Sweden.....we are all naked all the time.

I got to tell you a story....My wife comes from a conservative muslim country and she is sunni. She moved to Sweden about five years ago. Two years ago we went to the beach for the first time in her life. Being in Sweden there were of course women sunbathing topless. In the car going home from the beach she was very quiet so I asked her what was wrong. She asked me if I had noticed two women lying quite close to us. I said yes. She said they were topless. I said yes. She told me that she had studied the men walking by those two women under 3 hours and not one single man had looked at the women in an improper way. I said but yes of course, those two women were topless because they didn't want a tanline, not because they wanted others to see their boobs. She said ok I understand that but can a man tell the difference? I saw my chance to "enlighten" her about God Alone so I said "Of course, because a man sees righteousness and modesty not in a woman's clothes, but in her appearance." My wife had a hard time grasping this idea, because all her life she was told that she must cover up because 1. That is how to be modest and righteous 2. Men cannot control their emotions so Allah told women to cover up.

Surely one cannot look intimidating and immodest without society setting the norm of what is intimidating and immodest. What you BornAgain are referring to is what society says, not Allah.
There is no compulsion in religion, surely there should be no compulsion in how we dress? The guidelines (or rules if you may) given to us by Allah are modesty and righteousness. We are not to use materialistic things to make ourselves better in the eyes of others. We are not to use our beauty as a tool to get what we want. The statements we make with our make up/jewellry/tattoos should come from within us, not society norms. We should enjoy putting on nice clothes and feel beautiful, but the enjoyment is for us only. It is not to be that we need others to recognise us as beautiful.
We should let people have the freedom to express themselves. Without expression, how else are we to find our path? We should teach our young the words of Allah, that beauty comes from within and you have to be proud and thankful and hold your head up high. In Allah's eyes we are not judged for what we look like, but for who we are.