Why has been Western Civilization successful?
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All civilisations have succeeded at one point or another. Wester civilization has not succeded till very, very recently and we do not know how long that is going to last. It doesn't look very good. Also it would have to be looked at criticlly how it has succeeded, upon a lot of damage to others and upong a lot of suffering ot the pople till very recently in historical terms, and even now its success is restricted to certain countries. And I understand success as the ability to bring prosperity to the people at large and well being. Well being for everybody only came very recently to western civilisation, and even then with a lot of wars all over the place imposd on other civilisations.
It is all according to th glass you look through. At any rate that kind of view of history is like saying we are at the end of the match and we hav won. But if we really are t the end of the match that means that the success of western civilisations has brought about that end of things, which of course is not such a success, or if we are not at the end of things, then still we cannot talk about such a success, success is when it lasts, and that we do not know that it will last more than a century. Again and unfortunately it dosn't look good, we are regressing at gigantic pace and we are accepting regression like sheep. Rather than get bloated about success, it would do us good to be far more self-critical.
Salaam
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Thanks all, for your views. There are many reasons for success of Western civilization. However, the fact is that this civilization for which prototype today is USA. It,s success can not and should not only be considered as having just only the financial well being; although it is a by product of the real success. The real success is in.
- Leadership in knowledge,
- Leadership in social justice. Granted not perfect, by any measures; but still the best in the rest.
Please see my post real pillars of Islam.
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9600493.0Combined this with 1033
Surah 103 3
Except those, who have safeguarded and secured themselves with deeds free of corruption, full of justice, honesty, and by creating a state of order. So remember, to enjoin one another in acts suitable to requirements of wisdom, justice, reality and facts; as well as to continue to enjoin one another to be patient, and to endure in these attributes.
Be honest without prejudice and see, who is at top.
Additionally, it points out that worship is not the means of success nor required by our Rabb. Otherwise Muslim would have been at top in knowledge and social justice, streaming out of these rituals. But unfortunately reality speaks louder than words. Please wake up, before it is too late.
Peace,
Badar
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However, the fact is that this civilization for which prototype today is USA.
Mh, sorry, but I don't see the USA as the prototype of Western civilization.
The term "Western culture" is used very broadly to refer to a heritage of social norms, ethical values, traditional customs, religious beliefs, political systems, and specific artifacts and technologies. Specifically, Western culture may imply
a Graeco-Roman Classical and Renaissance cultural influence, concerning artistic, philosophic, literary, and legal themes and traditions, the cultural social effects of migration period and the heritages of Celtic, Germanic, Romanic, Slavic and other ethnic groups, as well as a tradition of rationalism in various spheres of life, developed by Hellenistic philosophy, Scholasticism, Humanisms, the Scientific Revolution and Enlightenment, and including, in political thought, widespread rational arguments in favour of free thought, human rights, equality and democratic values averse to irrationality and theocracy.
a Biblical-Christian cultural influence in spiritual thinking, customs and either ethic or moral traditions, around Post-Classical Era.
Western European cultural influences concerning artistic, musical, folkloric, ethic and oral traditions, whose themes have been further developed by Romanticism.The concept of western culture is generally linked to the classical definition of the Western world. In this definition, Western culture is the set of literary, scientific, political, artistic and philosophical principles which set it apart from other civilizations. Much of this set of traditions and knowledge is collected in the Western canon.
The term has come to apply to countries whose history is strongly marked by European immigration or settlement, such as the Americas, and Australasia, and is not restricted to Western Europe. Central Europe is also regarded as an original constituent of Western culture.
http//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Western_culture
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We are taking about the almighty creator's path, keep that in mind. The creator creates a universe 96 billion lightyears in diameter, with everything working in perfect precision but then you expect that God can't write down a book to guide a bunch of insignificant specks on a small speck out of the whole thing?
I am talking about your ability to doubt and its essential function in human life. I don't think God needs to doubt.
"islam" is one of several possible models of this path, all that remains is to test which one is the correct model. Keep in mind there is a difference between "islam" and "Islam", the latter being a post-quranic construct. I am not talking about any kind of religion but rather a mode of thinking/approach to life. A religion such as "Islam" entails things like "worship" for some illogical reason whereas the "islam" in the quran explicitly promotes logical/free thinking and good behaviour patterns that are consistent.
What test would you propose or agree to? I am not yet adept to differentiate the two I/i slams I suspect that that is not a general view but your specific view. Your islam seems to be rational thought, if that is what you mean by it then let's call it rational thought because unfortunately it is to easy to confuse two words such as Islam and islam.As such, you NEVER will be wrong if you have the correct "islam", if you are obeying the true path of the almighty how can you go wrong? But when you serve other men in "Islam" who themselves are faulty, then there is much room for error.
I am afraid for the world that there are so many that are confident in this way. Humans are faulty, conceiving of God accurately is impossible and as such we fall into heresies now and then and necessarily and inevitably stray from the path unless God guides us back. As such, doubt and cautious behaviour should rule our temperament and often times when we doubt and check our path we find the right way to go again.One thing people must keep in mind is that objective reality (the reality supposedly created by "Allah" is invulnerable to any kind of tests you can throw at it. You will never find a flaw, all observers of reality, if they tell the truth, will see the exact same thing. For example, suppose there are 10 people in a room. They all leave and split in separate ways and you ask each of them, how many people were in the room? The answer will be "10" from every single one of them, there is no room to distort this. You check CCTV footage, there are indeed 10 people in the room. You look at the room with the people in it, from the outside, via an infrared heat camera, you will count ten heat signatures. You analyse the DNA traces on the floor of the room, you will find 10 distinct persons were in that room. You analyse the markings on the walls/floors and eventually yet again, you will count that there were 10 people in the room.
Unless one person shook the hands of another 11th person and then touched the wall or whatever.... Over confidence has been the downfall of so many in history. Pride comes before the fall.Now if such a simple example as this can be questioned from every single direction concievable then do you think the path of the Almighty cannot? If anything, it is flawless. If you are afraid of people questioning your faith, that implies you have made a massive idiotic emotional and eternal investment into something you have no idea about, irrespective of what that faith is. If I went to buy Enron stock and I said "kill the kafir who doesn't think Enron stock is good" against all reason, then do you think I am a smart one? Even if I have 1300/2000/3000 years of research and a massive amount of people to back me up?
I agree that people should not be afraid to have their faith questioned. I think you are saying that since you have bought Enron stock then you should promote Enron stock? I didn't understand this and what your exact point was. Sorry. -
All civilisations have succeeded at one point or another. Wester civilization has not succeded till very, very recently and we do not know how long that is going to last. It doesn't look very good. Also it would have to be looked at criticlly how it has succeeded, upon a lot of damage to others and upong a lot of suffering ot the pople till very recently in historical terms, and even now its success is restricted to certain countries. And I understand success as the ability to bring prosperity to the people at large and well being. Well being for everybody only came very recently to western civilisation, and even then with a lot of wars all over the place imposd on other civilisations.
It is all according to th glass you look through. At any rate that kind of view of history is like saying we are at the end of the match and we hav won. But if we really are t the end of the match that means that the success of western civilisations has brought about that end of things, which of course is not such a success, or if we are not at the end of things, then still we cannot talk about such a success, success is when it lasts, and that we do not know that it will last more than a century. Again and unfortunately it dosn't look good, we are regressing at gigantic pace and we are accepting regression like sheep. Rather than get bloated about success, it would do us good to be far more self-critical.
Salaam
I think we are at the end of a match but we can still regress. If you read the news today the Dalai Lama declares himself a Marxist. http//www.smh.com.au/world/dalai-lama-leaves-his-marx-on-the-worlds-financial-capital-20100521-w1ux.html
I note this because there are still so, so, so, so many that believe that socialism and utopias are possible to achieve on Earth. Paradise/Heaven are concepts for after this life. If we are right then we all here believe that such paradises only occur and exist because God is in control and not man. Ultimately Jesus was correct in his parable of the good Samaritan, it is up to us as individuals to help each other, to choose to cross the street and pick our fellow man up.
Everyone thinks if only we were all Muslim there would be no more problems, but the history of the caliphates and the intrigue there shows what happens. Or all Christian there would be no more problems, but the history of the Roman Catholic Church and its abuses shows what happens. Everyone thinks if only we had a good king then there would be no more problems but the history of European monarchies shows the awful abuse of that system. Everyone thinks if only we were communist and shared resources equitably there would be no more problems but the 20th century is a history of atheist communism and fascism devastating the world.
So what is left? Democracy, freedom of speech and morality. Popular elections that limit any one person's ruler-ship. Doing the right thing day by day, moment by moment and making a choice to be an individual is the only system that works. The rest are pipe dreams and yes we can regress back to them as it appears we are to me.
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Thanks all, for your views. There are many reasons for success of Western civilization. However, the fact is that this civilization for which prototype today is USA. It,s success can not and should not only be considered as having just only the financial well being; although it is a by product of the real success. The real success is in.
- Leadership in knowledge,
- Leadership in social justice. Granted not perfect, by any measures; but still the best in the rest.
Please see my post real pillars of Islam.
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9600493.0Combined this with 1033
Surah 103 3
Except those, who have safeguarded and secured themselves with deeds free of corruption, full of justice, honesty, and by creating a state of order. So remember, to enjoin one another in acts suitable to requirements of wisdom, justice, reality and facts; as well as to continue to enjoin one another to be patient, and to endure in these attributes.
Be honest without prejudice and see, who is at top.
Additionally, it points out that worship is not the means of success nor required by our Rabb. Otherwise Muslim would have been at top in knowledge and social justice, streaming out of these rituals. But unfortunately reality speaks louder than words. Please wake up, before it is too late.
Peace,
Badar
I agree with this post. There has to come a time for each individual where they look up at their surroundings and decide if it is evidence for or against what they believe.
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Why has been Western Civilization successful?
Maybe, because of they have being Christians..
582 Thou shalt surely find the most violent of all men in enmity against the true believers, to be the Jews, and the idolaters And thou shalt surely find those among them to be the most inclinable to entertain friendship for the true believers, who say, we are Christians. This cometh to pass, because there are priests and monks among them; and because they are not elated with pride.
Being "Muslim" today and being submitter/believer in Quranic terms are not same things.
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I have been grappling with this question for a long time. I found my answer here
Surah 103 1
Many of the time, -
Surah 103 2
- Surely, you pretend to forget us; certainly ending up in diminution or total loss in business of life.
Surah 103 3
Except those, who have safeguarded and secured themselves with deeds free of corruption, full of justice, honesty, and by creating a state of order. So remember, to enjoin one another in acts suitable to requirements of wisdom, justice, reality and facts; as well as to continue to enjoin one another to be patient, and to endure in these attributes
In traditional sense of the Sura we are told, that after swearing by time our Rabb is telling us that all humans are in loss. Except, those who believed and did some good deeds. I do not have to elaborate on things of belief; we all know them very well. Furthermore, we all know that no body in Western civilizations has same beliefs as we do. But they are at the top of world. How come? Logical conclusion is that our beliefs are not what they should be.
Now the above Sura makes it abundantly clear, that even although the core of belief is Not forgetting Rabb. Which if forgotten will leading to diminution or total loss of results of business of life, is even less important. When it come to be secure and safeguarded. Conducting oneself with ?deeds free of corruption, full of justice, honesty, and by creating a state of order. So remember, to enjoin one another in acts suitable to requirements of wisdom, justice, reality and facts; as well as to continue to enjoin one another to be patient, and to endure in these attributes? is the most important.
Peace,
BadarPeace,
Respect.I'd say it's because The West is open minded or let's say more open minded then let's say the Eastern Europe. I say this becuase I'm from there and from the young age, I'v enoticed the huge and clear differnces between the two. Amazing!
While Eastern Europe argues about small and sometimes totally unimportant things, The Western part of the world is making progress but certain individuals should be doing little bit more good then they are. God knows best.
Peace.