Why Prophet Mohammad (S), cannot be Rasool?
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When I was a boy, I shot a gopher and tried to skin it.
I wanted its tail... I don't know why. Someone taught me that this was proper male behaviour, most likely,
and I believed them. Because I was a boy.So, as I am sitting there, in the dirt, with my little boy's knife... wondering why the legs were still twitching
after I had surely killed the poor creature, I finally managed to rip the fur completely off the tail,
'til there was nothing left of it.I almost want to laugh.
But it's not funny. It's a sickening story that haunts me to this day
and one of the many reasons I do not hunt, in my adult life. -
The word Rasool is from Arabic triliteral root of .
Word Rasool is deverbal noun, also called ?the nomina verbi?, or . Let us understand, first what these terms mean?
?These all imply or refer to abstract substantives, which express the action, passion or state indicated by corresponding verbs, without any reference to object, subject or time". (Arabic Grammar, by William Wright 3rd revised Ed. Vol. 1 Page 110 Rem 195).
This deverbal noun is on measure/ of , from root of
Hence, from verbal root , meaning ?He became easy in pace? (Arabic Lexicon by E Lane, Vol. 1 Page1081). Now put this meaning into die of deveral noun with its definition in mind; which implies no referance to an object, subject, or time, would mean ?something (which could neither be an object, subject or have time relationship) to make pacing (in life) easy?.
Since the very definition of the word cannot include anything which implies or allude to, an object or subject or time. Hence, a humanbeing cannot fit this definition. However, timeless principles to make pacing in life easy, could fit this definition. Where are these principles, all around us? Additionally, also written/hidden in the book know as Quran.
The nouns derived from Verbal Nouns are Nouns just like any other noun. When used in a sentence, they have the capacity to become the subject, the predicate, the object of a verb, possessive, and anything else.
And who told you or where you read that Rasool is a "verbal noun"?
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The nouns derived from Verbal Nouns are Nouns just like any other noun. When used in a sentence, they have the capacity to become the subject, the predicate, the object of a verb, possessive, and anything else.
And who told you or where you read that Rasool is a "verbal noun"?
Peace, referances are given. Please, look up to find out your answers.
The highlights above are from me.
EXACTLY. You said it, Noon. And here is my two-cents worth.
The Qur?aan was originally revealed NOT as a written, but as a verbal/oral scripture and NOT instantaneously, but gradually over a span of around 22, 23 years. The Prophet himself wrote the verses down right after their revelations as they were revealed through time and preserved them until his death.
At the time those around the Prophet memorized the verses of The Qur?aan. Then after more than two decades after the prophet?s death, they decided to arrange The Qur?aan into a book in order to send copies to new Muslim communities far away.
In spite of all this, for centuries, The Qur?aan was still being taught verbally/orally by memorizing, and the main reason was the rarity of literate people/scribes and also lack of convenient and efficient media/paper to write on. Then through time as the invention of better media became available, the written Qur?aan, among other books also became readily available.
Saying all that, the early written copies of The Qur?aan did not look anything close to what we have on hand today. There were no punctuations, written vowels, and even dots associated with the letters of the alphabet. These were invented and evolved through long periods of time.
The conclusion
The Qur?aan is BASED on verbal/oral, but NOT written communication. GOD, time and time again emphasizes to the Prophet through the book to just recite the verses to the people. Some of the outstanding verses regarding this issue are 7516-19, inclusive.
The Qur?aan, at the time, was sent down to a community of mainly illiterate people in their own daily spoken and quite simple language. See 96 for clarification.
Our analysis/interpretation of the verses of The Qur?aan MUST NOT be based on the written, but must be based on its Original verbal/oral form, in its ORIGINAL language.
We must be very careful and wary of the translations of The Qur?aan in other languages and always refer the translation to the ORIGINAL language. This is true about any language translated to another. The translation never communicates the meaning of the original language exactly the same.
Now if someone tries to involve the relatively NEW and conventional and EXOTIC rules of GRAMMAR, and what not, to the simple and easy to understand language of the Qur'aan, then that is too bad.
Peace,
KhalilSo you mean to say the written book called Quran is not at all trust worthy, because it does not match with your perception of oral tradition? Also all archieves of language, by great Arab scholars of the past, are just worth a crap?
Peace,
Badar
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Allah told the 'laws of the universe' to have some food
23/51 O messengers, eat from the good foods and work righteousness. Indeed, I, of what you do, am Knowing
Can you at least provide more fa3ool examples?
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Peace, referances are given. Please, look up to find out your answers.
It is not correct. Neither the reference says what you are trying to conclude nor there is response to what I have said. Kindly read the passage you are quoting once again. He did not say that Rasool is a verbal noun. From where you got it, and then are trying to build up hypothesis.
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Allah told the 'laws of the universe' to have some food
23/51 O messengers, eat from the good foods and work righteousness. Indeed, I, of what you do, am Knowing
Can you at least provide more fa3ool examples?
Peace, only from written script. Because it is the only tangible thing, to look to. Not the sounds that die as soon as are uttered from mouth.
337
Badar
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It is not correct. Neither the reference says what you are trying to conclude nor there is response to what I have said. Kindly read the passage you are quoting once again. He did not say that Rasool is a verbal noun. From where you got it, and then are trying to build up hypothesis.
Dear Mazhar, you know enough Arabic to understand, what this means. But since you asked for it. Please read carefully the link here. In word Rasool what is the Wazon.
http//www.studyquran.org/LaneLexicon/Volume3/00000249.pdf
Peace,
Badar
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Dear Mazhar, you know enough Arabic to understand, what this means. But since you asked for it. Please read carefully the link here. In word Rasool what is the Wazon.
http//www.studyquran.org/LaneLexicon/Volume3/00000249.pdf
Peace,
Badar
Peace Badr,
I know you have clearly understood the falsity of original thought you initiated the thread with, but I fail to comprehend why are you twisting and deivating from the main point. I am not talking about pattern/wazan, I pointed out in red that after reading the definition of Verbal noun, you jumped to that conclusion and starting applying that on the word Rasool. I asked you to first verify whther Rasool is a verbal noun which you are still avoiding.
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The Qur?aan was originally revealed NOT as a written, but as a verbal/oral scripture and NOT instantaneously, but gradually over a span of around 22, 23 years. The Prophet himself wrote the verses down right after their revelations as they were revealed through time and preserved them until his death.
At the time those around the Prophet memorized the verses of The Qur?aan. Then after more than two decades after the prophet?s death, they decided to arrange The Qur?aan into a book in order to send copies to new Muslim communities far away.
In spite of all this, for centuries, The Qur?aan was still being taught verbally/orally by memorizing, and the main reason was the rarity of literate people/scribes and also lack of convenient and efficient media/paper to write on. Then through time as the invention of better media became available, the written Qur?aan, among other books also became readily available.
Because of this fact, with every new verse/Surat the sequence and flow of the text in Book form was getting altered. If compilation in the form of Book was not done simultaenously, how could anyone compile it later on?
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Peace Badr,
I know you have clearly understood the falsity of original thought you initiated the thread with, but I fail to comprehend why are you twisting and deivating from the main point. I am not talking about pattern/wazan, I pointed out in red that after reading the definition of Verbal noun, you jumped to that conclusion and starting applying that on the word Rasool. I asked you to first verify whther Rasool is a verbal noun which you are still avoiding.
Peace. Dear Mazhar you are just not willing to accept the obvious. Which is okay, you'r choice. , a measure of verbal noun. Please see Wright's Grammar 3rd revised edition, Vol 1, page 112, Wason/Measure #32 other eamples given there are
Here is the link for you,
http//www.ghazali.org/arabic/WrightArabicGrammarVol1.pdf
Badar
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Peace. Dear Mazhar you are just not willing to accept the obvious. Which is okay, you'r choice. , a measure of verbal noun. Please see Wright's Grammar 3rd revised edition, Vol 1, page 112, Wason/Measure #32 other eamples given there are
Here is the link for you,
http//www.ghazali.org/arabic/WrightArabicGrammarVol1.pdf
Badar
Dear I know all these weights/patterns/Wazan. It is not the issue. Pl attend to my query.
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Dear I know all these weights/patterns/Wazan. It is not the issue. Pl attend to my query.
Dear Mazhar, please take few deep breaths. Think for few days and then relook. Your qurey has been addressed very well. Once more, word is made from root Ra-Siin-Lam in the measure of Verbal noun . Which is given as a measure of verbal noun, form #32 in Wright's book, with referance. Verbal nouns definition is given in the same book at page 110.
Peace,
Badar
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Dear Mazhar, please take few deep breaths. Think for few days and then relook. Your qurey has been addressed very well. Once more, word is made from root Ra-Siin-Lam in the measure of Verbal noun . Which is given as a measure of verbal noun, form #32 in Wright's book, with referance. Verbal nouns definition is given in the same book at page 110.
Peace,
Badar
Teachers call that student as stupid who shows himself to be superbly intelligent by passing judgments after just knowing elementary definition of something.
About verbal noun you read this?These all imply or refer to abstract substantives, which express the action, passion or state indicated by corresponding verbs, without any reference to object, subject or time". (Arabic Grammar, by William Wright 3rd revised Ed. Vol. 1 Page 110 Rem 195).
You thought, decided this
Word Rasool is deverbal noun, also called ?the nomina verbi?, or .This deverbal noun is on measure/ of , from root of
And on this presumption you devised the theory
Since the very definition of the word cannot include anything which implies or allude to, an object or subject or time. Hence, a humanbeing cannot fit this definition. However, timeless principles to make pacing in life easy, could fit this definition. Where are these principles, all around us? Additionally, also written/hidden in the book know as Quran.
I was just trying to make you realize at your own the inbuilt stupidity in your thread by asking you to first find whether is or not.
Nun de plume also tried to make you realize the fault in your theory which suggests on the basis of definition of Verbal noun that a humanbeing cannot fit this definition.
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What I had read was that is Noun from . Nowhere I have seen it referred as .
The Nouns derived from on the pattern of are hyperbolic participle the one that enacts the base meaning intensively/extensively.
This presumption does not stand when we see the use of word in Qur'aan
Since the very definition of the word cannot include anything which implies or allude to, an object or subject or time. Hence, a humanbeing cannot fit this definition. However, timeless principles to make pacing in life easy, could fit this definition. Where are these principles, all around us? Additionally, also written/hidden in the book know as Quran.
http//www.haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/017.%20Al%20Israa/17.94.gif
And nothing prevented people that they believe/accept when the Guidance/Book of Allah came to them
http//www.haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/017.%20Al%20Israa/17.94a.gif
except that they said to people, "Has Allah appointed a human being as Messenger?"Chapter 17
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What is your conclusion now, please share.
Dear Mazhar, conclusion about the word is already given above in my starting post.
Other conclusion, current translations of Quran and hence understandings are far from real. This is due to lexical, semantic and grammatical shifts in the language. These are likely both unintentional, due natural phenomenon of change in language. An intentional component can not excluded when stakes are so high.
For believers in Rabb, and the message it is imperative, to put collective efforts to restore the message in it's original form. This can be done with the help of preserved archives of language.
Peace,
Badar
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Back to square 1. Alas "grammer therapy" did not work. May Allah help.
Dear Mazhar, I should leave it, as it is. But since there are people reading this thread, for their sake. I am going to address this. With the hope that you might understand as well. Although, I already know that, this just will remain my wish.
is a Musdari noun, formed at a Musdari Waazan of . It will become under Ajwaf/Naaqis verbs rules. When preceeding Harkaat is a fetha, Waw changes to Alif. If it is Dumma, it will remain as Waw. Like is the case in . In . Ta/ha is added as either female marker or sign of intensification. This is my last post in response to you, on this topic.
Peace,
Badar