Is gender-mixed salat in the Mosque forbidden in The Quran?
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So your intention to pray can be so easily distracted in a Mosque at the sight of a woman? That sir is sad.
What is more sad, madam, is your continued sexist rhetoric. My contention is that women can be distracted by Enrique-esque men, just as much as men being distracted by Beyonce-esque women. You only seem to like criticizing men because somewhere along your developmental psychology you thought man-bashing was the definition of being a feminist.
For you to write off that I have claimed 'it is a very special place where people go to pray' and nothing more shows your convictions are not too strong and could be so easily swayed away from God to your base desires.
That's exactly what I'm saying. Now tell me why I'm wrong.
You liken worship and prayer to learning at college or going to a club and expect everyone is the same, they are not.
I liken free-mixing to free-mixing. You, however, can't tell me why free-mixing would result in certain behaviour in college but not the same in the mosque, other than a wishy-washy kind of concept that the masjid is a magical place where nafs and human biology disappears.
It is only men on here that have a problem with the presence of women in the Mosque claiming this would disrupt their intention to prayer or worship. I see no women with that problem and I have already agreed that yes women have desires but it seems we can control and manage those much better than you men can when it comes to a choice between an attractive man and worship or prayer, I choose God over any man any day and many femal muslims are the same. maybe its to do with being able to multitask and prioritize I dont know but priority in the Mosque is God, not an attractive man or woman
.When did you become a spokesperson for women? Your views are sexist. You continue to claim that only men are distracted by women because a) ?I see no women with that problem? and b) ?it seems we can control and manage blah blah?. For a), you have not observed every woman and her behaviour and feelings when praying in front of men so what you ?see? is no gauge for truth whatsoever. For b), what something ?seems? to you doesn't make it a reality either. How many women have you seen praying in-between men for you to spout this tripe?
Then it would be wise for them to move away from the distraction, correct their mind and get back onto the reason for being there wouldnt it?
Uha, by which time they may have missed the congregational prayer. Which wouldn't have happened if they were praying separately. But you don't care about those people. For you, it makes no difference that some people who are easily distracted are staying away from the mosque. The mosque, for you, is an elitist institution where only the most pious come to swan around.
I also recognize that not everyone is like me, I haven't got this far in life assuming they were.
Your comments suggest otherwise.
yes men and women are attracted to each other but women dont seem to be attracted to every man just because hes a man,
Strwawman. Where have I said that every woman is attracted to every man she comes across? More importantly, your other strawman is that Muslims believe every man is attracted to a woman just because she's a woman. Which is false.
this doesnt seem to be the case in what you are saying and just having the presence of a woman in a Mosque will tip you off what your mind is supposed to be on, which is GOD.
Yet again, another strawman. You would save yourself an awful lot of typing if you read and digested the argument being presented. Women are allowed in the mosque according to both the Qur'an and hadith. So no one is claiming the presence of a woman in the mosque will cause a distraction. Go back and read my posts to see what it is I'm objecting to. I'm all for debate, just without the redundancy.
I didnt say that they should get lost. Yes Islam aims to make it as easy as possible but that doesnt mean barring women from the mosque to make it easy for the men.
Strawman.
If some have a problem controlling their base desires then that is their problem they need to deal with instead of removing what causes their base desires to rise when they should be praying or concentrating on God.
So get lost, basically.
I have no arguements with you on that, it can be done with men one side and women the other where both are able to see and take part in the prayer together. This is not what happens though even in Mosques that do have women as the women are either stuck in a back room or upstairs or behind a curtain because they distract the men, not because the men distract them.
If you have no arguments with that, why are you arguing with me? What do you think I'm arguing for?
then one or both should move from what or who is distracting them.
This might work on whatever planet your living on (btw what's your internet speed like over there?) but here on Earth, a distraction such as being attracted to someone doesn't disappear when you move a few steps to the left, or fall back a couple of rows. The distraction can play on your mind for an extended time, if the initial impression was strong enough.
No that is not my attitude at all as I am the one saying they should NOT forsake the benefit of prayer and you are the one saying prayer is practically impossible with a woman in a close proximity to you, even to the point of being vain and boastful enough to claim YOUR presence will distract any woman!
Yes, but you're suggesting that if some distractions get the best of a man or a woman in the mosque that they should leave. You're perfectly happy to allow this, for the sake of being allowed to stand next to a man and pray. You could avoid the above with a degree of separation, which you won't concede.
And as for my presence distracting any woman... don't hate the playa, hate the game!
yes good for me and hubby but believe it or not Islam is not for everyone
Yes it is.
and does require some discipline, some fight hard with that discipline so to pass it off as 'normal' does not help when it is not 'normal' for everyone to have desires at the sight of the opposite sex in prayer!
Strawman. Where have I said everyone has desires at the sight of the opposite sex?
I have many times been here on boats moored on the Nile and when the call to prayer is called many of the men pray on the boats or in the street. There are many attractive men here but the very LAST thing on my mind is that when I see them praying. I love to watch them and I think it is a most beautiful sight, the last thing I think of is what a nice arse they have as it rises to the air!
And it is arrogant and foolish to think that your personal experience is representative of people everywhere.
I am posting here in the question 'is gender-mixed salat forbidden in the Quran' and no it is not forbidden, in fact it is called for as has been pointed out before. For me personally I dont care if they are segregated inside or not as I am able to control myself,
If you don't care either way, what are you arguing with me for?
I do not agree that women should be banned from the mosque as many are just because they distract men like yourself, it is you that needs to correct yourself, not those who distract you be removed.
Strawman. Where have I said I get distracted by women during prayer? The one who needs correcting is you, but the arrogance you've displayed thus far makes me think that you won't manage.
I would also like to point out that it is the segregation itself that is causing the distraction problem for men.
Completely unfounded.
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Women not going to the mosque at all?
No, women should be going to the mosque.
Everyone praying in the main space, but women on one side and men on the other?
Men in the front and women in the back?
These two are fine, I would like to see this more.
Men in the main hall and women in a separate space?
Women in the main hall and men in a separate space?
I would only endorse this if the main hall was very small.
Good point.
In general, I have observed that gender segregation creates exactly the sort of problems it is supposedly meant to eliminate.
Care to explain this?
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There is one mosque in Maadi where the imam actually yelled at the women, telling them they had no business coming to the mosque and should stay home instead of posing a temptation to the men.
http//www.imagebanana.com/img/q6owvuis/033102bad_1_prv.gif
He is s right women place is in hell they are not allowed in mosque and paradise. Can someone book a seat for me in hell next to a beautiful lady??
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Mushu
My contention is that women can be distracted by Enrique-esque men, just as much as men being distracted by Beyonce-esque women. You only seem to like criticizing men because somewhere along your developmental psychology you thought man-bashing was the definition of being a feminist.
Now that was a Bulls EYE.
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O Maryam! you stand for your Sustainer Lord and you prostrate ; and bow along with those who bow (in congregational prayer/Ass-sa'laat)?
She is a lady who is being asked to bow alongwith/in the company of bowing men.
and you people bow down along with those who bow down.
Surat-2 Ayat 43
see Mazhar post http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9601114.msg259202#new bravo
Now THAT is a bullseye laugh