New and Ignorant: Salat
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I am new to Islam. I have been searching for some time for a direction for my faith. I have read up on and visited several christian denominations and never felt like I was at a home. During this time I always looked at Islam but struggled with the the beliefs outside of the Quran. Not too long ago I came across the Quran Alone Islam and suddenly couldn't get it or the Quran out of my mind. I tried to read up on it, but being a typical white American in a rural WA state I wasn't able to grasp much of what I was and am reading.
Today I perfomed my first salats. I tried to follow the helpful information in one of the articles on this site (http//www.free-minds.org/salat). My first salat was okay, but during the second one I began to cry with joy. I have never done this before when I prayed, I was amazed. Thank you to all who post on here, it is helpful.
Here is where I need a question answered, and here is where my arrogance comes out. When it is time for a contact prayer do I need to do it exactly at the prayer times I find, or between that prayer time and the next prayer time? I don't want to get into or start an agrument about how many prayers a day, so lets say if my first prayer time fajr is at 300 am and shorook is at 533 am. When do I perform the fajr salat? At 300? Near 300? Halfway between? Please help, thanks.
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Welcome.
Dawn is mentioned in 2187 as the distinction between the light of day contrasted with the dark of night. You could try for it around that time, starting before the actual daybreak I would think.
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Peace,
Welcome to the forum and Islam Buck, pray whenever you want, dont get stuck in ritualistic detail, its good to pray and be consistent and to pray sincerely, dont worry too much about the details, I usually pray in between the hours, not exactly on them, sometimes I can pray 5 times a day, sometimes i miss a few , somedays I dont even pray, I feel bad about it but I just tell GOd im sorry next time I pray and ask him to guide me even closer to him in truth, I think of it like an engine with 5 cylinders, when I pray 5 times I feel like im running on all cylinders and everyhting feels good, sometimes im only running on one or two and I usually feel that way too. Our backgrounds are pretty similar, im a mixed race american born and raised, was catholic for 35 years, didnt like or understand the traditional Islam i was learning then I found GOd alone Quran alone and have felt at home ever since, oh,, I also cry once in awhile when I pray, I just never told anyone. Hope to become friends.
Kurt
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Thank you for your comments. I thought I was on the correct path but just wasn't sure. Coming from a christian background I am learning not just Islam but the vocabulary that goes along with it.
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I am new to Islam. I have been searching for some time for a direction for my faith. I have read up on and visited several christian denominations and never felt like I was at a home. During this time I always looked at Islam but struggled with the the beliefs outside of the Quran. Not too long ago I came across the Quran Alone Islam and suddenly couldn't get it or the Quran out of my mind. I tried to read up on it, but being a typical white American in a rural WA state I wasn't able to grasp much of what I was and am reading.
Today I perfomed my first salats. I tried to follow the helpful information in one of the articles on this site (http//www.free-minds.org/salat). My first salat was okay, but during the second one I began to cry with joy. I have never done this before when I prayed, I was amazed. Thank you to all who post on here, it is helpful.
Here is where I need a question answered, and here is where my arrogance comes out. When it is time for a contact prayer do I need to do it exactly at the prayer times I find, or between that prayer time and the next prayer time? I don't want to get into or start an agrument about how many prayers a day, so lets say if my first prayer time fajr is at 300 am and shorook is at 533 am. When do I perform the fajr salat? At 300? Near 300? Halfway between? Please help, thanks.
Salam, Peace,
Prayer= invoke God at any time, in any position see 3191, 4103, 1012
To get connected we use "the cable"=Habl see 3103Salat what?
Salat= Link/bond/connection
salat why?
2014, 2945
Salat when?
at specific time see 4103, 11114, 1778
Salat how?
by beeing concienscious of what you are reciting 443
to be clean 56
before starting 1698
by Reading the Book 1778, 17110
middle tone 17110
after the Reading invoke God 4103Peace
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Salam, Peace,
Prayer= invoke God at any time, in any position see 3191, 4103, 1012
To get connected we use "the cable"=Habl see 3103
Salat what?
Salat= Link/bond/connection
salat why?
2014, 2945
Salat when?
at specific time see 4103, 11114, 1778
Salat how?
by beeing concienscious of what you are reciting 443
to be clean 56
before starting 1698
by Reading the Book 1778, 17110
middle tone 17110
after the Reading invoke God 4103
PeacePeace,
Respect.All this what bro herbman has said is very important and aalso you should know that we all support you and may God bless you, brother. If you are honest and sincere, trust me, God will guide you, God willing.
welcome welcome to the forum, brother.
Please, be patient, it will work.
Peace.
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peace HI TO ALL! I AM 47, HAVE BEEN ONE OF THOSE "CRADLE CATHOLICS" SINCE BIRTH, UNTIL THIS PAST JANUARY, WHEN I DID SHAHADAH. PLEASE, PLEASE, TELL ME, FROM WHAT YOU HAVE STUDIED SO FAR, WHAT IS THE "OBLIGATORY" NUMBER OF PRAYER TIMES ACCORDING TO THE KORAN? MY SON AND I FOUND THREE.....THE REASON THIS IS SO IMPORTANT IS NOT OUT OF LAZINESS TO DO MORE, BUT I JUST WANT TO BE SURE I AM NOT MISLEADING MY CHILDREN....I DO NOT WANT TO BE ONE OF THOSE SPOKEN OF IN KORAN THAT HAS INTENTIONALLY MISLED SOMEONE. I DO NOT, ALSO, READ HADITH, AS I BELIEVE THEM TO BE SIMILAR TO CATHOLIC "TRADITIONS", AND HAVING NOTHING TO DO WITH LIVING LIFE "SOLA SCRIPTURA", WHICH IS WHAT I AM TRYING TO DO AS A SINGLE MOTHER WITH SPECIAL NEEDS KIDS. I WANT TO MAKE SURE I HAVE PASSED THE FAITH DOWN TO THEM CORRECTLY, IT IS A BIG CONCERN. sun
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Selam hanifa47
I suggest reading some articles on this website about salat and also using search option. There is no agreement as yet on how salat is performed from what I have read or what it really is. Some say it is a ritual prayer known as namaz and it is performed 2 or 3 or 5 times a day and some say it is not a ritual prayer. Also, read an alternative view on this site http//mentalbondageinthenameofgod.wordpress.com/
May Allah guide you and your children to the right path.
Peace
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hypno Salaamz again. see, that's where it's so confusing! coming from the catholic church, i am used to "talking" to God whenever I want, i.e. there is established prayer, i.e. at mass, confession, so forth, but having been an avid reader of the Bible, it says so many times to pray all day, or pray often, or similar, so, i, being disabled and at home alot, used to just "talk" with God thru the day, and say quick thank-you's when good things took place. i do not know if this is allowed for me anymore, as the prayers, whether 5 or 3, seem so ritualistic! don't get me wrong, i love reciting the Al-Fatiha and all, but it seems there is no room in "traditional" islam for just "being" with God, because even du'ua has prescribed ways to do it! ugh.....i just want a relationship with God for myself and my kids! -\
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Salaam Hanifa47 and Welcome.
You can pray/talk to God however and whenever you wish.
3191 Those who remember God while standing, and sitting, and on their sides, and they ponder in the creation of the heavens and the earth "Our Lord you did not create this without purpose, be You glorified, spare us the retribution of the Fire!"
2152 Therefore remember Me, I will remember you, and be thankful to Me, and do not be ungrateful to Me
An excellent resource for the study of salat
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9598319.0
A belated welcome to you as well, bucklateral
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In addition to the above verse, see
And when My servants ask you about Me, then I am near answering the calls of those who call to Me. So let them respond to Me and believe in Me that they may be guided.
One can du'aa / call / petition / pray to God anytime, however if you are referring to the regular/timed salat/bond, then that is different. See links already given.
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Salam Hanifa47
You can pray to god whenever we want. For example, you can pray to god to show you a solution to a problem. This is called dua'. For instance in one verse, Zachariah prayed to God
Quran 338
It was then that Zachariah implored his Lord; he said My Lord, grant me from You a good progeny. You are the hearer of prayer.At the same time, we shouldn't only pray and take contact with god in bad times. We should be concious of god both in good times and bad times
Quran 4149
Man does not tire in praying for good things. But if adversity touches him, he is disheartened, desperate! -
Peace Hanifa,
don't get me wrong, i love reciting the Al-Fatiha and all, but it seems there is no room in "traditional" islam for just "being" with God, because even du'ua has prescribed ways to do it!
Well firstly, the verses mentioned by Jack are important. Remembrance (dhikr) is an important part of the Reading. This has engendered many traditions in the Middle East that, while they are not in the Quran, are evolved from its teachings, such as mentioning God frequently in speech.
But more specifically to your problem, it seems to me from what you wrote that you aren't aware that this personal phase you speak of is generally done by Muslims in the sujood part of the prayer.
The traditional prayer has the recitation of the Opening (al-Fatiha) in the beginning of every phase, whilst standing. Following that is a recitation of (or reading right from) - the Quran.Then the last phase where you put your head to the floor, that is when the personal connection is strongest and you can pray freely and speak your mind, just like in du'aas. You will frequently see people praying in mosques elongating this last phase, and I do it all the time as well.
My own interpretation of prayer is
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The repetition of prayer 3 or more times a day reinforces a connection and behaviour. The discipline is being reinforced on a regular basis, and it is very hard to do wrong when you know you have to connect with God in a few hours.
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The recitation or reading from the Quran during these prayers is a way to ensure that people keep reading from it and learning from it. If more people chose to read during prayer instead of reciting only (which is acceptable in sectarian Islam but rarely done) then perhaps they would have more knowledge of the book!
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The performance of the actions in the prayer is reminiscent of yoga and is a good way for people (especially the elderly) to stretch their muscles and keep blood circulating.
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The performance of the prayer in congregation (and this will be obvious to anyone who has worked in a Muslim nation) is that it is the Great Equalizer. One minute you are working in an office, and the next minute the guy who cleans the toilets is standing shoulder to shoulder with the CEO. I view this as an extremely important part of the prayer as it removes the boundaries that society places on itself.
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The performance of prayer in congregation strengthens communities. Again, anyone who has lived in a Muslim nation knows that people who pray regularly at their local mosque meet their neighbours frequently and the performance of the prayer becomes a community activity, where people will visit each other for tea after it, for example. Like the Church experience in the US, expect repeated more frequently.
A lot of people on this forum may disagree with those points, but I believe that nothing in this religion is asked of us without reason, and those are the principles that I've observed in prayer over the years.
PS I've been known to tear up a few times in prayer as well and view it as completely normal. Ironically to many people in this forum who loathe sectarian Muslims, there is a common tradition in both Sunnism and Shiism of crying during prayer...although this has been exaggerated at times to unnecessary levels.
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hypno Salaamz again. see, that's where it's so confusing! coming from the catholic church, i am used to "talking" to God whenever I want, i.e. there is established prayer, i.e. at mass, confession, so forth, but having been an avid reader of the Bible, it says so many times to pray all day, or pray often, or similar, so, i, being disabled and at home alot, used to just "talk" with God thru the day, and say quick thank-you's when good things took place. i do not know if this is allowed for me anymore, as the prayers, whether 5 or 3, seem so ritualistic! don't get me wrong, i love reciting the Al-Fatiha and all, but it seems there is no room in "traditional" islam for just "being" with God, because even du'ua has prescribed ways to do it! ugh.....i just want a relationship with God for myself and my kids! -\
Salam Hanifa, I 'talk' to God all the time, I thank Him all the time no matter where I am or what im doing, not just in prayer. I lay in bed and 'chat' to Him, I sit and 'chat' to Him and I ask Him stuff. Ok it may seem pretty one sided, but is it though? ;D
The salat is a ritual but that doesnt mean dont do it, it is asked for in Quran and it is your time for God but you can still have time with God all day long, He is all aware of everything and doesnt have to stop off listening to someone else to listen to you.
Just reminded myself of when I was much younger and praying, I always started off with 'God, I know you're very busy but please could you listen to me for just a few minutes' as my concept of God was quite limited as a kid ;D
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pEACE THS! THANK YOU FOR YOUR WELL-THOUGHT OUT AND DETAILED REPLY! I DO NOT ENTER INTO SUJOOD BECAUSE I HAVE TO DO MY PRAYERS SITTING-I AM DISABLED. BUT MORE DETAILED WHAT I MEAN IS, THROUGHOUT THE DAY, IS IT "OK" TO JUST SAY, TO YOURSELF, NOT OUT LOUD-HELLO ALLAH, THANK YOU FOR THIS DAY, AND WHATEVER GOOD THING MAY HAVE JUST HAPPENNED TO ME, LIKE, I JUST GOT A 100 ON AN EXAM, FOR EXAMPLE...(I AM A STUDENT) INCIDENTALLY, I DEVOUR THE QUR'AN-SINCE I AM NOT AN ARABIC SPEAKER AT ALL, AND LEARNED THE ARABIC FOR PRAYERS PHONETICALLY, I HAVE READ 3 OF THE 7 VERSIONS OF THE QUR'AN THAT I CURRENTLY HAVE AT HOME. I USED TO BE A PHILOSOPHY MAJOR, AND I LOVE REFLECTING ON READINGS AND DIGGING TO THE BOTTOM OF THINGS! IN OTHER WORDS, I GUESS MY QUESTION IS, IS THERE ROOM FOR AN INFORMAL, COMPLETELY PERSONAL RELATIONSHIP WITH GOD, OUTSIDE OF THE OBLIGATORY PRAYER TIMES AND RITUALS? JUST TO SAY "HELLO GOD, I AM THINKING OF YOU AND THANK YOU RIGHT NOW"...THIS IS REALLY IMPORTANT, BECAUSE MY SON HAS AUTISM, AND I NEED TO KNOW IF I CAN TEACH HIM THIS OR NOT, BECAUSE WHEN WE WERE CHRISTIAN, WHEN ANY GOOD THING HAPPENNED TO US, WE WOULD IMMEDIATELY, I WOULD SAY, AUTOMATICALLY BLURT OUT "OH THANK YOU THANK YOU GOD FOR THIS........(WHATEVER IT WAS)!!! WE ARE VERY HAPPY MUSLIMS NOW AS WELL.... sun group
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pEACE THS! THANK YOU FOR YOUR WELL-THOUGHT OUT AND DETAILED REPLY! I DO NOT ENTER INTO SUJOOD BECAUSE I HAVE TO DO MY PRAYERS SITTING-I AM DISABLED. BUT MORE DETAILED WHAT I MEAN IS, THROUGHOUT THE DAY, IS IT "OK" TO JUST SAY, TO YOURSELF, NOT OUT LOUD-HELLO ALLAH, THANK YOU FOR THIS DAY, AND WHATEVER GOOD THING MAY HAVE JUST HAPPENNED TO ME, LIKE, I JUST GOT A 100 ON AN EXAM, FOR EXAMPLE...(I AM A STUDENT) INCIDENTALLY, I DEVOUR THE QUR'AN-SINCE I AM NOT AN ARABIC SPEAKER AT ALL, AND LEARNED THE ARABIC FOR PRAYERS PHONETICALLY, I HAVE READ 3 OF THE 7 VERSIONS OF THE QUR'AN THAT I CURRENTLY HAVE AT HOME. I USED TO BE A PHILOSOPHY MAJOR, AND I LOVE REFLECTING ON READINGS AND DIGGING TO THE BOTTOM OF THINGS! IN OTHER WORDS, I GUESS MY QUESTION IS, IS THERE ROOM FOR AN INFORMAL, COMPLETELY PERSONAL RELATIONSHIP WITH GOD, OUTSIDE OF THE OBLIGATORY PRAYER TIMES AND RITUALS? JUST TO SAY "HELLO GOD, I AM THINKING OF YOU AND THANK YOU RIGHT NOW"...THIS IS REALLY IMPORTANT, BECAUSE MY SON HAS AUTISM, AND I NEED TO KNOW IF I CAN TEACH HIM THIS OR NOT, BECAUSE WHEN WE WERE CHRISTIAN, WHEN ANY GOOD THING HAPPENNED TO US, WE WOULD IMMEDIATELY, I WOULD SAY, AUTOMATICALLY BLURT OUT "OH THANK YOU THANK YOU GOD FOR THIS........(WHATEVER IT WAS)!!! WE ARE VERY HAPPY MUSLIMS NOW AS WELL.... sun group
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pEACE THS! THANK YOU FOR YOUR WELL-THOUGHT OUT AND DETAILED REPLY! I DO NOT ENTER INTO SUJOOD BECAUSE I HAVE TO DO MY PRAYERS SITTING-I AM DISABLED. BUT MORE DETAILED WHAT I MEAN IS, THROUGHOUT THE DAY, IS IT "OK" TO JUST SAY, TO YOURSELF, NOT OUT LOUD-HELLO ALLAH, THANK YOU FOR THIS DAY, AND WHATEVER GOOD THING MAY HAVE JUST HAPPENNED TO ME, LIKE, I JUST GOT A 100 ON AN EXAM, FOR EXAMPLE...(I AM A STUDENT) INCIDENTALLY, I DEVOUR THE QUR'AN-SINCE I AM NOT AN ARABIC SPEAKER AT ALL, AND LEARNED THE ARABIC FOR PRAYERS PHONETICALLY, I HAVE READ 3 OF THE 7 VERSIONS OF THE QUR'AN THAT I CURRENTLY HAVE AT HOME. I USED TO BE A PHILOSOPHY MAJOR, AND I LOVE REFLECTING ON READINGS AND DIGGING TO THE BOTTOM OF THINGS! IN OTHER WORDS, I GUESS MY QUESTION IS, IS THERE ROOM FOR AN INFORMAL, COMPLETELY PERSONAL RELATIONSHIP WITH GOD, OUTSIDE OF THE OBLIGATORY PRAYER TIMES AND RITUALS? JUST TO SAY "HELLO GOD, I AM THINKING OF YOU AND THANK YOU RIGHT NOW"...THIS IS REALLY IMPORTANT, BECAUSE MY SON HAS AUTISM, AND I NEED TO KNOW IF I CAN TEACH HIM THIS OR NOT, BECAUSE WHEN WE WERE CHRISTIAN, WHEN ANY GOOD THING HAPPENNED TO US, WE WOULD IMMEDIATELY, I WOULD SAY, AUTOMATICALLY BLURT OUT "OH THANK YOU THANK YOU GOD FOR THIS........(WHATEVER IT WAS)!!! WE ARE VERY HAPPY MUSLIMS NOW AS WELL.... sun group
you will often hear muslims say 'Alhamdulillah' after just about EVERYTHING, this means Thank God. Grace before food is 'Bismillah ar-Rahman ar-Raheem, OR In the Name of God the Most Benificent the Most Merciful, same thing diff language but you are thanking Him and eating this in the name of God, like blessing your food and making it haram.
I think other things you are referring to is called 'Du'a' which you could be told are 'specific' things or little prayers, but IMO they are not that and are just what you say really, praising God for the blessings He has given you today, anything like that is OK and very much allowed, just dont go saying 'Thanks be to Jesus' and you're fine ;D But praise God all day long and thats fine, nothing wrong in that and its actually what Quran says. -
bravo oh my gosh! Salaam Ayisha! that's the word i was trying to write, but couldn't think of! it's chatting with God throughout the day! incidentally, even though my son is autistic, he too phonetically learned Al-Fatiha in arabic, Subhan-Allah, Allahu Akbar, subhana rabiyal aziim, etc. we both really enjoy the obligatory prayers! we don't know if it's right or not, but we state the intention of our prayers first, then we say "Dear Allah, thank you for all the blessings and mercies of this day. then we launch into Allahu Akbar, the Bismillah, etc. he loves the whole process of the prayer rug. only washing is troublesome, autistic kids are known to have washig troubles, but i make him do it anyway... sunthanks so much for your response! Salaamz!
