New and Ignorant: Salat
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pEACE THS! THANK YOU FOR YOUR WELL-THOUGHT OUT AND DETAILED REPLY! I DO NOT ENTER INTO SUJOOD BECAUSE I HAVE TO DO MY PRAYERS SITTING-I AM DISABLED. BUT MORE DETAILED WHAT I MEAN IS, THROUGHOUT THE DAY, IS IT "OK" TO JUST SAY, TO YOURSELF, NOT OUT LOUD-HELLO ALLAH, THANK YOU FOR THIS DAY, AND WHATEVER GOOD THING MAY HAVE JUST HAPPENNED TO ME, LIKE, I JUST GOT A 100 ON AN EXAM, FOR EXAMPLE...(I AM A STUDENT) INCIDENTALLY, I DEVOUR THE QUR'AN-SINCE I AM NOT AN ARABIC SPEAKER AT ALL, AND LEARNED THE ARABIC FOR PRAYERS PHONETICALLY, I HAVE READ 3 OF THE 7 VERSIONS OF THE QUR'AN THAT I CURRENTLY HAVE AT HOME. I USED TO BE A PHILOSOPHY MAJOR, AND I LOVE REFLECTING ON READINGS AND DIGGING TO THE BOTTOM OF THINGS! IN OTHER WORDS, I GUESS MY QUESTION IS, IS THERE ROOM FOR AN INFORMAL, COMPLETELY PERSONAL RELATIONSHIP WITH GOD, OUTSIDE OF THE OBLIGATORY PRAYER TIMES AND RITUALS? JUST TO SAY "HELLO GOD, I AM THINKING OF YOU AND THANK YOU RIGHT NOW"...THIS IS REALLY IMPORTANT, BECAUSE MY SON HAS AUTISM, AND I NEED TO KNOW IF I CAN TEACH HIM THIS OR NOT, BECAUSE WHEN WE WERE CHRISTIAN, WHEN ANY GOOD THING HAPPENNED TO US, WE WOULD IMMEDIATELY, I WOULD SAY, AUTOMATICALLY BLURT OUT "OH THANK YOU THANK YOU GOD FOR THIS........(WHATEVER IT WAS)!!! WE ARE VERY HAPPY MUSLIMS NOW AS WELL.... sun group
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pEACE THS! THANK YOU FOR YOUR WELL-THOUGHT OUT AND DETAILED REPLY! I DO NOT ENTER INTO SUJOOD BECAUSE I HAVE TO DO MY PRAYERS SITTING-I AM DISABLED. BUT MORE DETAILED WHAT I MEAN IS, THROUGHOUT THE DAY, IS IT "OK" TO JUST SAY, TO YOURSELF, NOT OUT LOUD-HELLO ALLAH, THANK YOU FOR THIS DAY, AND WHATEVER GOOD THING MAY HAVE JUST HAPPENNED TO ME, LIKE, I JUST GOT A 100 ON AN EXAM, FOR EXAMPLE...(I AM A STUDENT) INCIDENTALLY, I DEVOUR THE QUR'AN-SINCE I AM NOT AN ARABIC SPEAKER AT ALL, AND LEARNED THE ARABIC FOR PRAYERS PHONETICALLY, I HAVE READ 3 OF THE 7 VERSIONS OF THE QUR'AN THAT I CURRENTLY HAVE AT HOME. I USED TO BE A PHILOSOPHY MAJOR, AND I LOVE REFLECTING ON READINGS AND DIGGING TO THE BOTTOM OF THINGS! IN OTHER WORDS, I GUESS MY QUESTION IS, IS THERE ROOM FOR AN INFORMAL, COMPLETELY PERSONAL RELATIONSHIP WITH GOD, OUTSIDE OF THE OBLIGATORY PRAYER TIMES AND RITUALS? JUST TO SAY "HELLO GOD, I AM THINKING OF YOU AND THANK YOU RIGHT NOW"...THIS IS REALLY IMPORTANT, BECAUSE MY SON HAS AUTISM, AND I NEED TO KNOW IF I CAN TEACH HIM THIS OR NOT, BECAUSE WHEN WE WERE CHRISTIAN, WHEN ANY GOOD THING HAPPENNED TO US, WE WOULD IMMEDIATELY, I WOULD SAY, AUTOMATICALLY BLURT OUT "OH THANK YOU THANK YOU GOD FOR THIS........(WHATEVER IT WAS)!!! WE ARE VERY HAPPY MUSLIMS NOW AS WELL.... sun group
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pEACE THS! THANK YOU FOR YOUR WELL-THOUGHT OUT AND DETAILED REPLY! I DO NOT ENTER INTO SUJOOD BECAUSE I HAVE TO DO MY PRAYERS SITTING-I AM DISABLED. BUT MORE DETAILED WHAT I MEAN IS, THROUGHOUT THE DAY, IS IT "OK" TO JUST SAY, TO YOURSELF, NOT OUT LOUD-HELLO ALLAH, THANK YOU FOR THIS DAY, AND WHATEVER GOOD THING MAY HAVE JUST HAPPENNED TO ME, LIKE, I JUST GOT A 100 ON AN EXAM, FOR EXAMPLE...(I AM A STUDENT) INCIDENTALLY, I DEVOUR THE QUR'AN-SINCE I AM NOT AN ARABIC SPEAKER AT ALL, AND LEARNED THE ARABIC FOR PRAYERS PHONETICALLY, I HAVE READ 3 OF THE 7 VERSIONS OF THE QUR'AN THAT I CURRENTLY HAVE AT HOME. I USED TO BE A PHILOSOPHY MAJOR, AND I LOVE REFLECTING ON READINGS AND DIGGING TO THE BOTTOM OF THINGS! IN OTHER WORDS, I GUESS MY QUESTION IS, IS THERE ROOM FOR AN INFORMAL, COMPLETELY PERSONAL RELATIONSHIP WITH GOD, OUTSIDE OF THE OBLIGATORY PRAYER TIMES AND RITUALS? JUST TO SAY "HELLO GOD, I AM THINKING OF YOU AND THANK YOU RIGHT NOW"...THIS IS REALLY IMPORTANT, BECAUSE MY SON HAS AUTISM, AND I NEED TO KNOW IF I CAN TEACH HIM THIS OR NOT, BECAUSE WHEN WE WERE CHRISTIAN, WHEN ANY GOOD THING HAPPENNED TO US, WE WOULD IMMEDIATELY, I WOULD SAY, AUTOMATICALLY BLURT OUT "OH THANK YOU THANK YOU GOD FOR THIS........(WHATEVER IT WAS)!!! WE ARE VERY HAPPY MUSLIMS NOW AS WELL.... sun group
you will often hear muslims say 'Alhamdulillah' after just about EVERYTHING, this means Thank God. Grace before food is 'Bismillah ar-Rahman ar-Raheem, OR In the Name of God the Most Benificent the Most Merciful, same thing diff language but you are thanking Him and eating this in the name of God, like blessing your food and making it haram.
I think other things you are referring to is called 'Du'a' which you could be told are 'specific' things or little prayers, but IMO they are not that and are just what you say really, praising God for the blessings He has given you today, anything like that is OK and very much allowed, just dont go saying 'Thanks be to Jesus' and you're fine ;D But praise God all day long and thats fine, nothing wrong in that and its actually what Quran says. -
bravo oh my gosh! Salaam Ayisha! that's the word i was trying to write, but couldn't think of! it's chatting with God throughout the day! incidentally, even though my son is autistic, he too phonetically learned Al-Fatiha in arabic, Subhan-Allah, Allahu Akbar, subhana rabiyal aziim, etc. we both really enjoy the obligatory prayers! we don't know if it's right or not, but we state the intention of our prayers first, then we say "Dear Allah, thank you for all the blessings and mercies of this day. then we launch into Allahu Akbar, the Bismillah, etc. he loves the whole process of the prayer rug. only washing is troublesome, autistic kids are known to have washig troubles, but i make him do it anyway... sunthanks so much for your response! Salaamz!
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rotflSalaamz again Ayisha! Ha! "Just don't thank Jesus"!!! U have a great sense of humour! Your posts made my day today! I'm still the tired mom, but at least had some great laughs while learning something too! Salaam! By the way, I already know "Alhamdullilah", Insha-Allah, and others, but can u tell me please, what "Masha-Allah" means? I have heard it several times, but don't know the meaning of it. We always say Bismillah over our food, perhaps you could give me a little "collection" of single sentence sayings like this that we can learn for everyday use? group Salaam!
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Peace everyone,
Bucklateral, welcome, and why i see this thread as titled "New and Willing To Learn" )
Hanifa47, i thought the correct term for someone like you is difabled? Because we are disabled in something and enabled in something else, aren't we? ) So you and i we're both difables! (well, i'm often incapable of sanity so i should be counted in)
Masha Allah means "Allah has willed". May be expressed when you witness something great, something terribly graceful, or something miraculous happened/happening in your life. And by miraculous i mean someone like your boy )
Please use whatever language that you and your son are comfortable with. Learning a language in order to understand what being said is one thing. Experiencing the understanding is however, the more essential thing. In other words, saying "Thank You God", with all the graceful experiences you've accumulated over your past life, will yield and recall similar experience as saying "Alhamdulillah". Different words, similar vibes.
Personally, I'd rather assist someone to understand the meaning of AlFatiha, than to teach the phonetics. I'd use simple language, as he/she understands or uses daily. Not the perfect meaning possible, just something that is tangible to the person. I don't want my future kids to grow up with the concept of "praying in Arabic" in place of Salat. I want them to experience Salat. And unless i end up with an Arabic-native wife, we'll do Salat in our own language. Isn't language a tool (for us to communicate), not the communication itself?
On Salat, i also want to remind (to myself most of all) that beyond the obligatory, timed Salat, there are these continuous bonds, connections with your Beloved One (2153-157) for us to seek, hunt, chase... (something that i keep on missing, yet i keep on being reminded). Of course, performing and maintaining the timed Salat is an important half of the how-to-get-there, the other being Sabr (literally patience, perseverance).
So, yeah, keep talking to your Love (inside yourself, not out loud). Because if you don't, i wonder how else can Allah talk to you?
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group Peace to you San! thank you so much for your reply! Yes, our timed Prayer is a bit of a "language cocktail". We were told the Al-Fatiha "must" be prayed in Arabic, so we learned it phonetically, while at the same time memorizing it's meaning in the English versions i have, and initially, we were praying entirely in English, because at that time too, that's back in January, when I converted, I felt it was more important to know WHAT we were praying than HOW. Even now, we still say (after Subhana Rabiyal Azim) "God responds to those who praise Him" in English, and after Subhana Rabiyal Allah, we still finish the rakat in English, because combining my son's Autism, and my not being good remembering other languages at all, it was either this dual-language version, or continue reading from papers i had printed out-we chose our version, because the two of us figure that since we know for sure our beloved God is omniscient, omnipotent, all merciful and all forgiving, he can certainly understand English. Also, I have a real moral/spiritual problem with the idea that God would want good things for his servants, and yet would not accept the sincere, heartfelt, thankful prayers of a very special teen and his forgetful mom. He knows we love him and thank Him for everything, because in the Qur'an it clearly states He "knows what is in your chest", so we think He knows we are sincerely grateful and humble and so forth. I get so scared though, when all these serious Muslim converts tell me if it's not in Arabic it won't be accepted...which is why i initially began my internet search for people like the ones here on free minds, and was so happy to find this place; initially i really was convinced by my muslim neighbor that satan was working on me because i was "deviating" from the "real Islam"....so now, we just don't really tell her anymore how we pray or anything..and we do give, maybe less formally, but we have another neighbor that is financially even more low-budget than we are, so we give her meat and tuna and stuff after i do my monthly shopping-she has 4 kids, so i believe i am on the right path-zakat was never a problem for me anyway, because people i know tell me my son and i are generous to the point of stupidity..i have raised him to never, ever be selfish with anything you have, because ultimately, it's not yours anyway-God gave you it to share. so, there you are, that is how we are. yay thanks again so much for your wonderful reply! peace!
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group Peace to you San! thank you so much for your reply! Yes, our timed Prayer is a bit of a "language cocktail". We were told the Al-Fatiha "must" be prayed in Arabic, so we learned it phonetically, while at the same time memorizing it's meaning in the English versions i have, and initially, we were praying entirely in English, because at that time too, that's back in January, when I converted, I felt it was more important to know WHAT we were praying than HOW. Even now, we still say (after Subhana Rabiyal Azim) "God responds to those who praise Him" in English, and after Subhana Rabiyal Allah, we still finish the rakat in English, because combining my son's Autism, and my not being good remembering other languages at all, it was either this dual-language version, or continue reading from papers i had printed out-we chose our version, because the two of us figure that since we know for sure our beloved God is omniscient, omnipotent, all merciful and all forgiving, he can certainly understand English. Also, I have a real moral/spiritual problem with the idea that God would want good things for his servants, and yet would not accept the sincere, heartfelt, thankful prayers of a very special teen and his forgetful mom. He knows we love him and thank Him for everything, because in the Qur'an it clearly states He "knows what is in your chest", so we think He knows we are sincerely grateful and humble and so forth. I get so scared though, when all these serious Muslim converts tell me if it's not in Arabic it won't be accepted...which is why i initially began my internet search for people like the ones here on free minds, and was so happy to find this place; initially i really was convinced by my muslim neighbor that satan was working on me because i was "deviating" from the "real Islam"....so now, we just don't really tell her anymore how we pray or anything..and we do give, maybe less formally, but we have another neighbor that is financially even more low-budget than we are, so we give her meat and tuna and stuff after i do my monthly shopping-she has 4 kids, so i believe i am on the right path-zakat was never a problem for me anyway, because people i know tell me my son and i are generous to the point of stupidity..i have raised him to never, ever be selfish with anything you have, because ultimately, it's not yours anyway-God gave you it to share. so, there you are, that is how we are. yay thanks again so much for your wonderful reply! peace!
Oh this makes me angry! If you dont point your toes and hands to the kabba your prayer isnt accepted, if you dont place your hands correctly on your knees your prayer wont be accepted, if you sneeze the devil is inside you, if you close your eyes your prayer wont be accepted, if a wisp of hair is showing it wont be accepted etc etc etc, so much BS I have heard over the years all man made and none of it from God! I have also seen some brothers who would be quick to tell me these things actually answering their mobile phones in the MIDDLE of a prayer!
I have a funny big toe, it wont bend when I kneel without pain, then I broke another toe on the same foot and I had been struggling with praying and although I am reciting all I could think about was the pain in my foot! The past few days I have not pointed my toes at the kabba while kneeling and managed to pray for longer while concentrating on what I was saying and stayed and had a good old chat with Him! I think however you do it as long as you are sincere in the connection with Him and not fogetting that to worry about your hands being pointing right, then who is anyone on this earth to say 'it wont be accepted'?
God knows all languages so praying in Arabic when you have no idea what you are saying is stupid. MANY MANY non Arab speakers can recite the entire Quran, but have no idea what it is they are saying! What is the point in that? God GAVE the words in Arabic, He doesnt just want people to recite the same words back to Him He wants us to UNDERSTAND them, FEEL them.
One of my grandsons is Autistic, I know the hard work you must have put into raising your son but it sounds like you have done a damn good job of it. Praise God in ANY way you want and can, its not supposed to be hard, its easy as falling of a ladder (how I broke the toe) bravo
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bravo Peace Ayisha! Thanks so much for your support! Yes, I, too was confronted with the devil being everywhere-this neighbor sat at my house and read me hadith about with which foot to enter the bathroom, what to say while in the bathroom, whith which foot to exit the bathroom, what to say then, and in the end, to ask forgiveness of God for going to poo in the first place...!!! WHAT? If God is who He says He is, and I believe that He Is, then, when he created us, he knew we would have to poo! So, why am I asking his forgiveness for doing something natural that he created me to do? Same with period! How would my having period make praying "unlawful" for me? Especially if I use tampons? I prayed anyway... about my son-yes, it was alot of work, and at one point, I thought he would not be able to learn the Al-Fatiha at all, but then we had a small reminder from Allah that all things are possible for him-I woke my son up for dawn prayer, and was handing him the paper upon which i had written and the printed out the phonetic arabic of the prayer, and he said to me 'oh, I don't need it mom", so I asked but bud, how are you going to do prayers this morning? and he answered, "oh, I saw the Al-Fatiha prayer words in a dream last night, so I know I can say it", and you bet, he sure did! While I was still bumbling through "Maaaliki Yaumid deen" on my printed sheet, he was off and running and he did it absolutely perfectly! so i just let him lead the prayers that morning! he was absolutely beaming when we finished, and said "see, Allah likes me because he sent me the prayer in my head during the night", and now I am sure we were supposed to be Muslims." There is a saying in Latvian (our native language) that says "children speak the words of God", and vice versa, that "God listens to children first", oh how true, especially in my son's case, because for him, the autism presents several learning disabilities, and one of them is forgetfulness-he simply can not usually memorise stuff. Yes, Im good at falling off things as well! ;D. Now that I'm less ambulatory because of my illnesses, I';m alot safer...ha ha ha....Peace to You!
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bravo Peace Ayisha! Thanks so much for your support! Yes, I, too was confronted with the devil being everywhere-this neighbor sat at my house and read me hadith about with which foot to enter the bathroom, what to say while in the bathroom, whith which foot to exit the bathroom, what to say then, and in the end, to ask forgiveness of God for going to poo in the first place...!!! WHAT? If God is who He says He is, and I believe that He Is, then, when he created us, he knew we would have to poo! So, why am I asking his forgiveness for doing something natural that he created me to do? Same with period! How would my having period make praying "unlawful" for me? Especially if I use tampons? I prayed anyway... about my son-yes, it was alot of work, and at one point, I thought he would not be able to learn the Al-Fatiha at all, but then we had a small reminder from Allah that all things are possible for him-I woke my son up for dawn prayer, and was handing him the paper upon which i had written and the printed out the phonetic arabic of the prayer, and he said to me 'oh, I don't need it mom", so I asked but bud, how are you going to do prayers this morning? and he answered, "oh, I saw the Al-Fatiha prayer words in a dream last night, so I know I can say it", and you bet, he sure did! While I was still bumbling through "Maaaliki Yaumid deen" on my printed sheet, he was off and running and he did it absolutely perfectly! so i just let him lead the prayers that morning! he was absolutely beaming when we finished, and said "see, Allah likes me because he sent me the prayer in my head during the night", and now I am sure we were supposed to be Muslims." There is a saying in Latvian (our native language) that says "children speak the words of God", and vice versa, that "God listens to children first", oh how true, especially in my son's case, because for him, the autism presents several learning disabilities, and one of them is forgetfulness-he simply can not usually memorise stuff. Yes, Im good at falling off things as well! ;D. Now that I'm less ambulatory because of my illnesses, I';m alot safer...ha ha ha....Peace to You!
That made me cry! God bless you both
My grandson is 9 now and still doesnt speak a word '(
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Amin IronSky. Al Quran does not tell us the method of prayer. The ritual that is known and practiced by many is a tradition more than divinely ordained. God, in fact, is not all that enthralled by ritual. The Prophet Jesus railed against the empty ritualism of the Temple. In fact, God tells us through the Psalmist, the Prophet David, that He desires a contrite and broken heart when we approach Him in our prayer. God also desires for us to express gratitude and praise for His action in our lives. Meditating upon His qualities, expecially His mercy and His sustaining us in our lives, is another way of 'making contact' in our prayers. What the 5 prayer per day tells me is that we are to be connected to God throughout our day. However, to insist that one needs to do prayers in a specific manner, at specific times per day, which seem to change everyday if one follows a prayer schedule, it to miss the point. Salat is a manner of living our days in a prayerful manner, connected to God; clinging to God out of love and devotion. God is closer to us than our jugular vein. He knows what is in our hearts. If ritual salat, as prescribed by those who take things literally and by those who mock/compel others to pray as they do, takes our hearts out of the equation. It becomes more of an obligation or a duty to uphold rather than a free expression of our love and devotion to God. Which do you think is the more sincere manner of praying to our One and only God?
Peace,
Welcome to the forum and Islam Buck, pray whenever you want, dont get stuck in ritualistic detail, its good to pray and be consistent and to pray sincerely, dont worry too much about the details, I usually pray in between the hours, not exactly on them, sometimes I can pray 5 times a day, sometimes i miss a few , somedays I dont even pray, I feel bad about it but I just tell GOd im sorry next time I pray and ask him to guide me even closer to him in truth, I think of it like an engine with 5 cylinders, when I pray 5 times I feel like im running on all cylinders and everyhting feels good, sometimes im only running on one or two and I usually feel that way too. Our backgrounds are pretty similar, im a mixed race american born and raised, was catholic for 35 years, didnt like or understand the traditional Islam i was learning then I found GOd alone Quran alone and have felt at home ever since, oh,, I also cry once in awhile when I pray, I just never told anyone. Hope to become friends.
Kurt
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Salaam Hanifa,
Sorry for the delayed reply, but yes, as Ayisha and others have pointed out, saying things to God throughout the day, thanking Him, etc, is a very common practice among Muslims in general and not wrong at all!
Secondly, in my opinion, people who push Arabic on converts are being ridiculous. The concept of God is a universal concept for all people and all time, and in my opinion if you don't understand the Arabic then you should just pray and speak to God in the language you understand and feel comfortable with - and I'm Arab. Learning Arabic as a hobby or to understand the Quran better is one thing, a good thing, but being forced to repeat words that are meaningless to you is not my definition of how to pray and speak with God. Some things, such as hamdulillah, subhan allah, mashallah, etc, are instantly learned, meanings and all, so do not pose a problem. But I cannot see why the fateha should be read out loud in Arabic when you pray..
Personally I also use several languages when praying, as I was brought up in a mixed-language household, and I memorize the Quran more to enhance my memory than anything else. Studying the Reading is for my benefit, and memorizing is a good way to train your memory and keep your mind sharp, that's how I see it.
Anyhow, good luck with all your efforts!
Peace and blessings be on you and your family
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peace sun
Thanks so much for your post! Boy, did it make me feel better! I had been told that i had to at least learn the prayers in Arabic because the Qur'an came down the the Prophet (PBUH) in Arabic....at any rate, we know that one Al-Fatihah in Arabic, we now know what it means from saying it so much, but I certainly will not push my special needs son to learn more Arabic, because I, too, believe that thinking that God must be prayed to in only one language puts human characteristics on God, i.e. he has the same limitations we do, but, in fact, he created everything, including the languages! My son and I just really enjoy doing the prayers, that's all, and we figured it just CAN'T be correct that God would be so mean that he would NOT accept our sincere prayers just because they were not in Arabic! Had the Prophet (PBUH) lived in Spain, and Gibreel would have brought him the message in Spanish, would we all be obliged to read and pray only in Spanish? It bothers me that people try to put God in a tiny, little, human box of limitations, and then make a person feel bad and guilty if they do not agree with this little box-I used tp be a philosophy major, and I never just accept things "because so and so has ruled that way"-we were taught, by our professor, and, I dare say, by the Qur'an as well, to READ and to THINK, so how and why should I just automatically think, "oh, well mullah so and so said it, so it's right"...I can't do that, and I think Qur'an speaks against this SPECIFICALLY so the believers stay on message and DON'T blindly follow human additions to the message God himself sent us. Besides, the Qur'an says it is the "light", and "complete", so, if it's not in the Qur'an, why should I believe it? the Qur'an says this religion is for all mankind...and it says that God was the one who gave us different languages, so, following good logic, if God made all the languages, and God sent us the religion of Islam with it's message of light, and truth, then we should learn and practice it in our language! It does not say in any of my translations that to convert one must also learn the language-it keeps repeating that the chastisement will be for thos who do not BELIEVE, and those who REJECT God, but says nothing about languages. So, my son and I believe with all our hearts, and one would imagine then that hopefully, God does see that we love and appreciate him! Oh, I did not mean to write so much, this has simply been such a source of frustration for me! All the Muslims around me are the traditional ones that feel above you the more words they can say in Arabic...I have to say again, i am SO happy I found this forum to talk with intelligent people who are also sincere believers! Peace to You!
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peace
Same with period! How would my having period make praying "unlawful" for me? Especially if I use tampons? I prayed anyway...
Ditto. All those silly man-made restrictions for menstruating women never made any sense to me at all. http//www.clicksmilies.com/s1106/aetsch/cheeky-smiley-022.gif
