Former unsure christian to islam
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Hello bucklateral,
It's great to hear something like your journey to Quran. Please just keep reading The Quran (The Reading), just convert yourself into your nature. Your nature is God's signature. Actually there is no relationship between Quran and this Islam thing. This Islam thing is a mix of Jewish principles + Arabian Culture + Pagan rituals.
Set thou thy face then, as a true convert, towards the Faith which God hath made, and for which He hath made man. No change is there in the creation of God. This is the right Faith, but the greater part of men know it not. (3030)
Regards
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I grew up in small city in WA state and in christian church. Though I went to church and believed in God I really didn't understand much of what I was hearing. When I attended church I often found myself daydreaming about this or that. I struggled with religion for most of my life, but my belief in god was strong. When I was in college I enjoyed going to different christian denominations to see what they have to offer. In all of them I struggled with the message. Every once and a while I would look into Islam, but it was difficult for me to understand it. I was confused how the Quran and hadiths were both of the same religion. As I continued to look into religions I would always keep looking at Islam, and then one day I came across a wikipedia article that had two or so lines about Quran alone. I read those two lines and immediately felt a connection. I started searching it on the internet and became hooked. I read the websites, the Quran, articles, and more of the Quran. I began to get a feeling I hadn't had before.
A few days ago I made my first post on this site and asked about salat. I received great comments that have helped me a great deal. I am still learning and have many questions. I see many words and sayings on this website and I have no idea what they mean, or only a very basic understanding. I am also trying to find a way to learn arabic since I want to read the Quran in its original language, and help me with the words on many Islam sites.
I am not sure if I am a Muslim, a muslim, or just a follower of Islam, and to tell you the truth I don't think I really care what title my belief may have. My concern now is to grow my submission to God.
It really doesn't matter what you call yourself. If you believe in one God and one God only, then you are a God-aloner whether you are a God-alone Christian or a God-alone Muslim, there is very little difference between the two.
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Rev.John
It really doesn't matter what you call yourself. If you believe in one God and one God only, then you are a God-aloner whether you are a God-alone Christian or a God-alone Muslim, there is very little difference between the two
and what is that very little difference?
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Rev.John
and what is that very little difference?God-alone Christians follow the message Jesus brought us from God and God-alone Muslims follow the message Muhammad brought us from God. (although the messages were almost the same).
God-alone Muslims celebrate Ramadan, God-alone Christians do not
God-alone Muslims and God alone Christians celebrate the sabbath on different days.
God-alone Muslims follow the Quran without hadiths, God-alone Christians follow the bible without the add-ons
God-alone Christians eat pork.
Etc
But you know all this
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dear John, this cannot be called a "very little" difference.
But I was talking about, which you mentioned without detailGod-alone Christians follow the message Jesus brought us from God and God-alone Muslims follow the message Muhammad brought us from God
Do the God alone Christians consider Muhammad as Last Messenger of Allah?
Muslims Do consider Issa as Messenger of Allah!Any way I know how hard it is to preach God-alone in Christian Countries, Who consider Jesus as Son of God,
so Hail to you handshake -
dear John, this cannot be called a "very little" difference.
But I was talking about, which you mentioned without detail
Do the God alone Christians consider Muhammad as Last Messenger of Allah?
Muslims Do consider Issa as Messenger of Allah!Any way I know how hard it is to preach God-alone in Christian Countries, Who consider Jesus as Son of God,
so Hail to you handshakeNot necessarily the last messenger, but most do consider him to be a messenger/prophet of God. As for my term "little difference". I do think they are not important differences as they are mainly just "procedural" differences and I was meaning that there was very little difference between the actual beliefs.
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THe important path is submitting to GOD alone, belief in the last day and belief in the prophet and messengers. I think thats a major similarity.
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Where is that similarity? Mulslims do accept, but most of the Christians donot!
I'm talking about GOD alone Christians.
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the only requirement in islam is to believe in one God and submit to Him. it doesnt matter whether u do that through the quran or any other way u want to..God is the ultimate Guide.. u do not need to believe in quran and the prophet muhammad to be a muslim...its a bonus if u do ...but not a basic requirement. this submission to God is wat makes us similiar..not the common prophets or scriptures.
peace -
the only requirement in islam is to believe in one God and submit to Him. it doesnt matter whether u do that through the quran or any other way u want to..God is the ultimate Guide.. u do not need to believe in quran and the prophet muhammad to be a muslim...its a bonus if u do ...but not a basic requirement. this submission to God is wat makes us similiar..not the common prophets or scriptures.
peaceYou are a misguided person, brother!
Just answer me where do you got the above statement
"this submission to God is wat makes us similiar"? -
You are a misguided person, brother!
Just answer me where do you got the above statement
"this submission to God is wat makes us similiar"?Raajah, you are misguided, brother! Their (the christians) SUBMISSION to God IS what makes us similar. For other similarities please see below (not my work, just copy-paste from a christian website.)
Bucklateral welcome group
Qur'an 3513
He merges Night into Day, and he merges Day into Night, and he has subjected the sun and the moon (to his Law) each one runs its course for a term appointed. Such is Allah your Lord to Him belongs all Dominion. And those whom ye invoke besides Him have not the least power.
Genesis 114
Then God said, "Let there be lights in the expanse of the heavens to separate the day from the night,
and let them be for signs and for seasons and for days and years;Qur'an 132
Allah is He Who raised the heavens without any pillars that ye can see is firmly established on the throne (of authority). He has subjected the sun and the moon (to his Law)! Each one runs (its course) for a term appointed. He doth regulate all affairs, explaining the signs in detail, that ye may believe with certainty in the meeting with your Lord.
Genesis 11,2
In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. The earth was formless and void, and darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was moving over the surface of the waters.Qur'an 133,4
And it is He who spread out the earth, and set thereon mountains standing firm and (flowing) rivers and fruit of every kind He made in pairs, two and two He draweth the night as a veil o'er the Day. Behold, verily in these things there are signs for those who consider! And in the earth are tracts (diverse though) neighbouring, and gardens of vines and fields sown with corn, and palm trees - growing out of single roots or otherwise watered with the same water, yet some of them We make more excellent than others to eat. Behold, verily in these things there are signs for those who understand!
Genesis 19-12
Then God said, "Let the waters below the heavens be gathered into one place, and let the dry land appear''; and it was so. God called the dry land earth, and the gathering of the waters He called seas; and God saw that it was good. Then God said, "Let the earth sprout vegetation plants yielding seed, and fruit trees on the earth bearing fruit after their kind with seed in them''; and it was so. The earth brought forth vegetation, plants yielding seed after their kind, and trees bearing fruit with seed in them, after] their kind; and God saw that it was good.Qur'an 4137
Among His Signs are the Night and the Day, and the Sun and the Moon. Do not prostrate to the sun and the moon, but prostrate to Allah, Who created them, if it is Him ye wish to serve.
Genesis 13-5
Then God said, "Let there be light''; and there was light. God saw that the light was good; and God separated the light from the darkness. God called the light day, and the darkness He called night. And there was evening and there was morning, one day.Qur'an 4112
So He completed them as seven firmaments in two Days, and He assigned to each heaven its duty and command. And We adorned the lower heaven with lights, and (provided it) with guard. Such is the Decree of (Him) the Exalted in Might, Full of Knowledge.
Genesis 114-18
Then God said, "Let there be lights in the expanse of the heavens to separate the day from the night, and let them be for signs and for seasons and for days and years; and let them be for lights in the expanse of the heavens to give light on the earth''; and it was so. God made the two great lights, the greater light to govern the day, and the lesser light to govern the night; He made the stars also. God placed them in the expanse of the heavens to give light on the earth,
and to govern the day and the night, and to separate the light from the darkness; and God saw that it was good.Qur'an 5038
We created the heavens and the earth and all between them in Six Days, nor did any sense of weariness touch Us.
Genesis 21-3
Thus the heavens and the earth were completed, and all their hosts. By the seventh day God completed His work which He had done, and He rested on the seventh day from all His work which He had done. Then God blessed the seventh day and sanctified it, because in it He rested from all His work which God had created and made.Qur'an 1528,29
Behold! thy Lord said to the angels "I am about to create man from sounding clay from mud molded
into shape; when I have fashioned him (in due proportion) and breathed into him of My spirit fall ye down in obeisance unto him.
Genesis 27
Then the Lord God formed man of dust from the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living being.Islam
Similar verses to the 10 Biblical CommandmentsQur'an 253
And remember We gave Moses the Scripture and the Criterion (between right and wrong) There was a
chance for you to be guided aright.
Qur'an 7145
And We ordained laws for him in the tablets in all matters, both commanding and explaining all things, (and said) "Take and hold these with firmness, and enjoin thy people to hold fast by the best in the precepts
Exodus 2412
The Lord said to Moses, "Come up to Me on the mountain and stay here, and I will give you the tablets of stone, with the law and commands I have written for their instruction."
Deuteronomy
413 He declared to you His covenant, the Ten Commandments, which He commanded you to follow and then wrote them on two stone tablets.Qur'an 1723
Thy Lord hath decreed that ye worship none but Him . . .
Qur'an 2163; 2255; 32; 36; 318; 362; 487; 573; 6102; 6106; 759; 765; 773; 785; 7158; 931; 9129; 10;90; 1114; 1140; 1161; 1184; 1330; 1602; 18110; 208 2014; 2098; 2125; 2187; 2323; 2332; 23116; 2726; 2838; 2870; 2888; 353; 37035; 3865; 396; 403; 4062; 4065; 448; 4719; 6413; 739
La illa ha illa Allah
Exodus 203
You shall have no other gods before MeQur'an 1723
Thy Lord hath decreed that ye worship none but Him, and that ye be kind to parents. Whether one or both of them attain old age in thy life, say not to them a word of contempt, nor repel them, but address them in terms of honour.
Exodus 2012
Honour your father and your mother, that your days may be long in the land which the Lord your God gave you.
Qur'an 1733
Nor take life which Allah has made sacred . . .
Exodus 2013
You shall not kill
Qur'an 1732
Nor come nigh to adultery for it is a shameful (deed) and an evil, opening the road (to other evils).
Exodus 2014
You shall not commit Adultery
Qur'an 2188
And do not eat up unjustly the property of each other among yourselves nor convey their cases to the authorities for devouring unlawfully some portion of the property of the people knowingly.
Exodus 2015
You shall not steal.
Qur'an 242
And cover not truth with falsehood, nor conceal the Truth when ye know (what it is).
Exodus 2016
You shall not bear false witness against your neighbour.
Qur'an 432
And in no wise covet those things in which Allah Hath bestowed His gifts more freely on some of you than on others . . .
Exodus 2017
You shall not covet your neighbour's house; you shall not covet your neighbour's wife or his male servant or
his female servant or his ox or his donkey or anything that belongs to your neighbour.Qur'an 422-24
422 And marry not women whom your fathers
married, except what is past It was shameful and odious, an abominable custom indeed.
423 Prohibited to you (for marriage) are your
mothers, daughters, sisters;
father's sisters, mother's sisters;
brother's daughters, sister's daughters; foster-mothers foster-sisters;
your wives' mothers;
your step-daughters under your guardianship, born of your wives to whom ye have gone in, no prohibition if ye have not gone in;
(those who have been) wives of your sons proceeding from your loins;
and two sisters in wedlock at one and the same time, except for what is past;
for God is Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful;
424 Also (prohibited are) women already married, except those whom your right hands possess. Thus hath God ordained (prohibitions) against you. Except for these, all others are
lawful . . . and God is All-knowing, All-wise.Leviticus 186-18
6 No one is to approach any close relative to have sexual relations. I am the Lord.
7 Do not dishonour your father by having sexual relations with your mother. She is your mother; do not have relations with her.
8 Do not have sexual relations with your father's wife; that would dishonour your father.
9 Do not have sexual relations with your sister, either your father's daughter or your mother's daughter, whether she was born in the same home or elsewhere.
10 Do not have sexual relations with your son's daughter or your daughter's daughter; that would dishonour you.
11 Do not have sexual relations with the daughter of your father's wife, born to your father; she is your sister.
12 Do not have sexual relations with your father's sister; she is your father's close relative.
13 Do not have sexual relations with your mother's sister, because she is your mother's close relative.
14 Do not dishonour your father's brother by approaching his wife to have sexual relations; she is your aunt.
15 Do not have sexual relations with your daughter-in-law. She is your son's wife; do not have relations with her.
16 Do not have sexual relations with your brother's wife; that would dishonour your brother.
17 Do not have sexual relations with both a woman and her daughter. Do not have sexual relations with either her son's daughter or her daughter's daughter; they are her close relatives. That is wickedness.
18 Do not take your wife's sister as a rival wife and have sexual relations with her while your wife is living.Islam -- God (Allah) is recognized as the Creator. Monotheistic -- God is recognized as the Creator.
God is omnipotent, omniscient, immanent within His creation yet transcendent. God is omnipotent, omniscient, immanent within His creation yet transcendent.
God has a unique relationship with humans (master and servant). God has a unique relationship with humans. (master and servant).
God makes agreements or Covenants with humans. God makes agreements or Covenants with humans. -
@ raajah
personally i find it very amusing when ppl label others as misguided. thats a huge thing to claim..for all u know I could be closer to the truth than u may be..and vice versa...so in order fr us all to respect each others opinion lets refrain from such labels.
i dont need to go in lengthy descriptions or quotes frm the quran to suggest that all we need is to believe in One God and pray to him alone. the statement in the quran which claims that believing christian and jews will also be successful in the next life is a strong suggestion towards the statement i made. we all need to believe in the One true God and submit to him. by submission in this case i mean to pray to him and to humble urself in front of Him. God never changes HIs mind..im sure u wud agree to that...the messages he sent throughout history were constant..maybe a bit different in terms of other minor issues like sabbath and dietery requirements etc..but the underlying thing was always believe and worship ONE GOD. that message never changed..why? because that is the ultimate litmus test fr a believer. not whether u follow prophet muhammad, jesus, moses, noah, david, solomon.. books like the holy quran and bible and tanakh were all sent to guide us..some more correctly preserved than others (IMO). i think if u follow the bible as a whole (meaning contextually) u can clearly see Gods signature...there are many monotheistic christians who use the bible as the guide in life...i say good for them...they have the opportunity to read the quran and follow the message in that as well...but as long a sthey believe in one God that is enough................the rest of the things like salat, fasting, pilgrimage evrything is all secondary. Shirk is unpardonable according to the quran, nothing else (if GOd wills)..so logically speaking there has to be a reason fr God making such a statement.
I think we muslims need to take a step back and analyse the quran a bit more inorder to refrain frm becoming too narrow minded inour approach as to wat are the BASIC requirements of a believer/submitter.
personally, i find the quran to be very comprehensive and affective fr me, and i wud recommend people to read it and find guidance from God through it..but then again to each their own ..at the end of the day God is the only one who can guide..even if u read the quran and pray 5 times or watever and fast n do all the things that are "required" of a muslim, theres still no guarantee ur on the right path.Peace brother
btw in case u didnt notice the tiny gender sign near my name, im a sister -
rraza
Peace brother
btw in case u didnt notice the tiny gender sign near my name, im a sisterSorry for that I was "misguided" by "raza".
personally i find it very amusing when ppl label others as misguided. thats a huge thing to claim..for all u know I could be closer to the truth than u may be..and vice versa...so in order fr us all to respect each others opinion lets refrain from such labels.
While you could have been more amused, if you answered my question directly.
i dont need to go in lengthy descriptions or quotes frm the quran to suggest that all we need is to believe in One God and pray to him alone. the statement in the quran which claims that believing christian and jews will also be successful in the next life is a strong suggestion towards the statement i made
There your argument is dead, right there Rubab. Now go back to your first post.
the only requirement in islam is to believe in one God and submit to Him. it doesnt matter whether u do that through the quran or any other way u want to..God is the ultimate Guide.. u do not need to believe in quran and the prophet muhammad to be a muslim
Did you got it? or shall I explain it to you. Hope there is no need to tell why I asked you the above question after reading your first post which was self contradictory.
Emil what are you trying to tell?
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Alright then,
You said
"the only requirement in islam is to believe in one God and submit to Him."and I asked where did you get this?
You also said
"u do not need to believe in quran"and i asked where did you get this?
this submission to God is wat makes us similiar
and I asked where did you get this
not the common prophets or scriptures.
Did you noticed? You tell us not to believe in quran, not to believe in common prophets, not to believe in scriptures, but at the same time you are trying to tell us that according to Quran....
we all need to believe in the One true God and submit to him. by submission in this case i mean to pray to him and to humble urself in front of Him.
the statement in the quran which claims that believing christian and jews will also be successful in the next life is a strong suggestion towards the statement i made
.Where did you get this concept? If you donot believe in Scriptures and Common prophets, and in Quran.
The concept of ONE true GOd and to submitt to him is very much Quran and Muhammad, and Musa, and Issa, and Abraham.
Your post is just shows the battle going on in between you.ah , no sorry brother... cud u explain it more clearly?
I prefer Rajah.
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ah ok nw i get wat ur saying
well im a quran alone believer so ofcourse watever my beliefs are they originate from the quran...in fact i came to the hypothesis that u dont need to believe in the quran to be a believer in God after reading the quran..because as i mentioned above, if believing in wat was sent down with prophet muhammad was the only criteria then submitting christians and jews wud not be successful in the hereafter as the quran says. so ofcourse my argument to u was based frm a quranic perspective
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You tell us not to believe in quran, not to believe in common prophets, not to believe in scriptures, but at the same time you are trying to tell us that according to Quran....lol. when did i tell u not to believe in the quran or the common prophets or scriptures? u really need to read and understand instead of just trying to debate and refute sthing i never said.
Where did you get this concept? If you donot believe in Scriptures and Common prophets, and in Quran.
I thnk u overlooked the fact that im a quran alone believer. u seem to like making big claims without focusing on wat the other person is saying.
the only requirement in islam is to believe in one God and submit to Him. it doesnt matter whether u do that through the quran or any other way u want to..God is the ultimate Guide.. u do not need to believe in quran and the prophet muhammad to be a muslim...its a bonus if u do ...but not a basic requirement. this submission to God is wat makes us similiar..not the common prophets or scriptures.
peacei think i shud have highlighted the word NEED when i said u dont NEED to believe in the quran and prophet muhammad to be a muslim and to succeed in the hereafter.
u said
The concept of ONE true GOd and to submitt to him is very much Quran and Muhammad, and Musa, and Issa, and Abraham.
after i had already mentioned in my post
God never changes HIs mind..im sure u wud agree to that...the messages he sent throughout history were constant..maybe a bit different in terms of other minor issues like sabbath and dietery requirements etc..but the underlying thing was always believe and worship ONE GOD. that message never changed..why? because that is the ultimate litmus test fr a believer. not whether u follow prophet muhammad, jesus, moses, noah, david, solomon.. books like the holy quran and bible and tanakh were all sent to guide us..some more correctly preserved than others (IMO).
i think ur trying to say the same thing i already said, its just that instead of reading and understanding it u were more interested in refuting it.
I think we muslims need to take a step back and analyse the quran a bit more inorder to refrain frm becoming too narrow minded inour approach as to wat are the BASIC requirements of a believer/submitter.
personally, i find the quran to be very comprehensive and affective fr me, and i wud recommend people to read it and find guidance from God through it..but then again to each their own ..at the end of the day God is the only one who can guide..even if u read the quran and pray 5 times or watever and fast n do all the things that are "required" of a muslim, theres still no guarantee ur on the right path.i think if u read this text that iv highlited frm my previous post u wud realise that u overlooked the fact that im a muslim who follows the quran. I encourage that in the future if ur trying to refute sthing plz make sure uv gone through it and understood it properly.
peace.
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rraza
ah ok nw i get wat ur saying
Thanks Allah!
rrazawell im a quran alone believer
You need not to say it, because after atheists the most confused persons ever met are So called Quran alone Muslims.
lol. when did i tell u not to believe in the quran or the common prophets or scriptures? u really need to read and understand instead of just trying to debate and refute sthing i never said.
Let me see, hmmmm, ahhhh, ohhhhh, ok at least I found it, here
...u do not need to believe in quran and the prophet muhammad to be a muslim
Now if one does not "Needs" to believe in Quran and the Prophet Muhammad to be a Muslim, then how could he or she be a Quranist at the first place, And for Muhammad Peace is upon him just read the thread
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=13583.105This cult Quranists or Quran Alone believer has so many sub sects, it really is hard to tell who they are in real. Now we have a Quran Alone believer, who says their is No NEED to believe in Quran to be a Muslim. &
rraza
personally, i find the quran to be very comprehensive and affective fr me, and i wud recommend people to read it and find guidance from God through it.
and would like to see the following result
rraza
..u do not need to believe in quran and the prophet muhammad to be a muslim
rraza
in fact i came to the hypothesis that u dont need to believe in the quran to be a believer in God after reading the quran.
This is what in simple words is being asked from you? How?
Just analyze your whole Hypothesis once again before presenting it to your College as a "thesis" for some degree -
depends on ur definition of muslim. fr me its someone who submits his/her will to God. adam, moses, jesus..all of them were muslims coz they believed in one God. they didnt need the quran or prophet muhammad to be muslims. they just submitted to God and acknowledged Him as the sole Creator. For me thats the basic definition of a muslim or a believer.
u may think that "quranists" are confused and ur entitled to ur opinion.. but atleast we think and dont blindly follow.
I believe in the quran because i choose to believe in it..i dont need it for my "salvation" as u are inferring. my only salvation is my belief in One God,my good deeds and Gods forgiveness.oh, and btw by me sayin u dont NEED to follow the quran and the prophet muhammad to enter jannah im not contradicting myself, nor am i telling u to not follow it...i am merely stating that the choice is urs. if u choose to read it and take guidance frm it then gud fr u..but fr christians and jews who are monothiestic and believe in One God they dont need to change their whole belief system inorder to go to heaven.
This is what in simple words is being asked from you? How?
Just analyze your whole Hypothesis once again before presenting it to your College as a "thesis" for some degreelol i think im writing this fr the third time. if belief in the quran and prophet muhammad is VITAL fr success in the hereafter then the quran wud not have said that believing christians and jews will have no reason to worry in the hereafter. and if u reply to that saying this "belief" is belief in the quran and the prophet then why the need to call them christians? the quran by calling them jews and nazarenes is by default suggesting that even if they stick to the ORIGINAL teachings of their scripture ( which are mainly based on monothiesm) they can be successful. hence they do not NEED to switch over to the quran. it is WONDERFUL if they do ...but not REQUIRED.
if ur suggesting that the quran is imperative fr success on judgment day then wats gonna happen to adam or moses or jesus? coz quran wasnt compiled at that time. abraham didnt need a scripture to tell him that he shudnt worship dummy gods...he knew it in his heart and God guided him. God even calls abraham his friend...and he didnt follow the prophet muhammad and the quran.
so the natural conclusion is it is the belief in ONE GOD that is imperative and essential in Gods eyes. does it matter where u get that message from? not really
i dont call myself a quranist but sure u can give me that name... the holy quran liberates u, it dusnt chain u to itself. it makes u THINK...and it is this thinking capacity that makes ppl on this forum different frm most of the muslim world steeped in tradition and hearsay. u may call that confusion, but i call it liberation of our minds through critical analysis and debate.
and i think ur confusing NEED and CHOOSE. i classify myself as someone who follows the quran only because I CHOOSE to follow it, because it feels right to me. the one message i NEEDED out of the quran was that there is only one God. the rest i follow because i choose to.
how cn i be a follower of quran only if i dont NEED to follow it? simple answer really.. i WANT to follow it.