Help needed: Husband and wife, as equals?
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Salaam,
Many feel that in Islam, the man is in a higher position than the wife. It seems such a view can be easily gathered by a certain way of reading AQ. It would be good to have a counter argument against this.
I'd like a convincing argument against this. Something no traditionalist/male chauvinist would have an answer for.
Please post verses in favor/against this view.
Thanks in advance for all your help.
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Salam Jack,
The best answer for this is 30/21, I feel
And among His Signs is this, that He created for you mates from among yourselves, that ye may dwell in tranquillity with them, and He has put love and mercy between your (hearts) verily in that are Signs for those who reflect.
The word 'zawj' here shows something which is complementary to each other. There is no notion of authoritarianism here at all.
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Peace Jack,
in my experience, it is not possible to convince someone who wants to read some sort of female inferiority out of the Qur'an (or any other scripture, for that matter) otherwise. Their understanding is usually based on their own preconceptions and a twisted / patriarchal view of the world. They will cite 434 and then go into long-winded explanations about men being more able to make decisions, earn money and "lead". They will say that women, by nature, are guided by emotions and hormones and men are guided by logic and intellect. Thus, they claim, women have been created to nurture children and do housework, i.e. stick to tasks "that require emotions and not clear thinking", while men have been created to work, make decisions, lead, advise and so on.
There is no arguing with people who have such a distorted view of the world and are not willing to open their eyes to the reality around them.
However, you might find some arguments in this text interesting or helpful
Women in Society Economic Rights
This chapter addresses economic rights of Muslim women. These rights are derived from the Quran, however the interpretation of these rights as well as their application (or lack of application) in some Muslim countries often results in some controversy.
The interpretation of verse 434 and the latter portion of verse 2233 could prevent a women's participation in the job market or promote justice and harmony.
Men shall take full care of women with the bounties which God has bestowed more abundantly on the former (men), than the latter (women) and with what they may spend out of their possessions. (434)
No human being shall be burdened with more than he is well able to bear neither shall a mother be made to suffer because of her child, nor, because of his child, he who has begotten it. And the same duty rests upon the heir. (2233)
An article titled "Islam and Women's Work" published in ALJUMUAH magazine is an example of the interpretation of these verses to prevent women from entering the job market. This article analyzes a woman's development in stages and finds that in each stage she should be in the care of an adult male. These stages are
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While she is a child, she is under the care of her father.
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After she marries, the responsibility falls on her husband.
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If she has neither a father nor a husband, the responsibility of her care falls on her brother.
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If she has no male relative, the obligation falls upon the Muslim community.
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When articles as such are published what is our responsibility as Muslim women? Obviously it is to challenge this view with research having the whole context of the Quran in mind. Upon reading the above one questions why a woman requires a male to take care of her. If one assumes that the above scenario is Islamically correct then one can conclude that
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Males are naturally superior to females.
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It is a obligation for a male to be financially responsible for his family.
However these conclusions are at odds with other verses of the Quran.
Amina Wadud-Muhsin in her book Qur'an and Women studies verse 434 in relation to other verses in the Quran. Since there is no verse in the Quran that speaks about male physical or intellectual superiority, Wadud-Muhsin believes that the part of the verse "God has bestowed more abundantly on the former (male)" pertains to inheritance. This interpretation is derived from verse 411 "the share for a male is twice that for the female." This "preference" in 434 therefore is related to inheritance or a material gain. Thus, the male is not naturally superior to the female.
Is the male obligated to be financially responsible for the female? The interpretation of verse 2233 in the context of all the other verses of the Quran is about mutual respect and harmony. The initial part of this verse states
And the mothers may nurse their children for two whole years, if they wish to complete the period of nursing; and it is incumbent upon him who has begotten the child to provide in a fair manner for their sustenance and clothing. (2233)
This verse reveals that the decision of weaning the child for two years is an option for the mother not a command. This decision is based on the wife and husband's mutual respect for a harmonious relationship. In a situation in which both of the married couple's financial contribution is needed to maintain an existence, a wife's insistence that the only husband should provide for their livelihood would jeopardize the harmony of marriage described in the Quran
And among His wonders is this He creates for you mates out of you owen kind, so that you might incline towards them, and He engenders love an tenderness between you in this, behold, there are messages indeed for people who think. (3021)
Thus, the males responsibility to financially care for the women applies to a specific situation (when the mother weans her child) and the premise that a women should be cared for by a male throughout every stage of her development is false and not supported by the Quran.
A conflict arises when the interpretation of verses 434 and 2233 are limited to these verses alone without consideration for the whole Quran. In this case it is viewed as the superiority of males over females or a gender-based division of labor. This division of labor entitles the male to be the "provider" and "protector" and the woman to lead a private life and solely be the source of love, affection and care. This interpretation is not consistent with other verses of the Quran
Whereas anyone-be it man or woman-who does of good deeds and is a believer withal, shall enter paradise, and shall not be wronged by as much as the groove of a date-stone. (4124)
Men shall have a benefit from what they earn, and women shall have a benefit from what they earn. (432)
These verses address men and women in equal terms. Wadud-Muhsin concludes that, "The Quran does not strictly delineate the roles of women and the roles of men to such an extent as to propose only a single possibility for each gender."This analysis is supported by a Bukhari hadith from Kitab al-nafqat Aswad bin Yazeed narrates that I asked Ayesha What was the norm of the Prophet at home? She (Ayesha) replied he used to work for his family at home. Then, when he heard the adhan (call to prayer) he would step out. The hadith supports the fact that there is no gender-based division of labor for a married couple. The couple mutually decides what is best for their household having the harmony of their family in mind.
Even though there is no command for a division of labor in the Quran, in today's global economy, as men's horizons and occupational choices widen, women's in some Muslim counties remain comparatively narrow. What has prevented women from moving into the new activities opened by the global economy? In some Muslim countries political instability coexists with extreme conservative ideologies regarding women. Afghanistan is an example where once women were allowed to contribute to sustaining economic growth and development. Afghan women in small numbers joined public life in the 1920's with the support of King Amanullah and Queen Soraya. Queen Soraya addressed a gathering of women in the celebration of the 7th anniversary (1926) of independence stating
"Do not think, however, that our nation needs only men to serve it. Women should also take their part as women did in the early years of Islam. The valuable services rendered by women are recounted throughout history from which we learn that women were not created solely for pleasure and comfort. From their examples we learn that we must all contribute toward the development of our nation and that this can not be done without being equipped with knowledge..."
Ironically, 70 years after Queen Soraya's speech the struggle and efforts that the previous generation made to gain political and economic rights for women is threatened. Today, a woman's basic right to vote, to pursue an education, and to join the job force is threatened by the Taliban, a political group that gain the control of the country and run the government by their "Islamic" code. Noor Mohammed, a senior member of the Taliban's Centeral Committee states, "We categorically refuse to let women vote or participate in politics..." Taliban's insistence on secluding women from public life is derived from Saudi Arabia's interpretation of the Quran. This interpretation is colored by Saudi Arabia's cultural ideology. To gain financial rewards Taliban emulates Saudi Arabia's orthodox view that restricts a women's right to vote and participate in public life. Taliban's political power depends on oppressing woman.
Similarly in Iran, in an attempt to balance the national budget both civil services and private sectors have excluded women from the job market by preferentially retiring female employees and not taking new staff. The Head of the political and Ideological Section of the defense industries, Hojatoleslam Motbahri, explains his position "In principle I'm against all employment for women outside their home...In my opinion basically the access of women to the factory floor is against the laws of nature...Besides if women are employed by industry and the public sector, they will displace men and close their employment opportunities." Economic growth requires the full participation of the labor force. Total exclusion of women from the job force means not utilizing half the energy that leads to economic growth.
Interestingly enough, even with strong principles such as women work "being against the laws of nature," economic realities have taken their own path in Iran. In the city of Mazandaran, female workers spend long working hours at the local textile factory. The Director of the Cotton and Weaving factory explains, "Women's work is much finer. If you take thread winding men produce about 500 kg for every 650 kg produced by women." In this case women are hired because their service produces more profit and is an illustration of the impractical and unrealistic point of the "laws of nature argument."
Muslim men and women can apply the rights given by the Quran to revolutionize the status quo in Western societies. In the United States work at home is viewed as unproductive. According to the United Nations System of National Accounts (UNSNA) because no exchange of money takes place in a woman work at home, her work is not considered a value for the GNP (Gross National Product). If a professional woman stays home with her children up to certain time, her choice is an "unproductive activity". Accordingly, if she does not accumulate enough credit toward her social security benefits, she will not qualify to receive such benefits in her old age or in case she is disabled. If her choice is to stay at home to raise her children and perform housework, it should be considered as a contribution to the GNP. This would entitle her to social security benefits. Such a view is consistent with the economic rights given to women in the Quran.
Women were given rights in the Quran to contribute to the economy by owning and selling property 1400 years ago. Verse 432 emphasizes the equality of men and women in the economical growth of a society.
Men shall have a benefit from what they earn, and women shall have a benefit from what they earn. (432)
This verse, aside from giving women the right to earn, supports the economic theory of "equal pay for equal work.'' The core of this theory is that women and men should be compensated by the work they perform regardless of gender. The Quran addresses this issue by referring to both genders and stating that each be compensated by their work. If it was intended that women receive less than men it would have been explicit. This is a concept that even in today's Western society has not completely been adopted. In a recent study Working Women magazine reported that although women's salaries in the United States are starting to catch up with men's in recent years, still women earn 5 to 15 cents less on the dollar than men working in a similar job.
The rights that are given to women in the Quran are not theoretical without any application. In Iran Islamist women activists used texts supported by the Quran to demand a law to provide wages for housework. Accordingly in 1991 a law was passed under which a man divorcing his wife must first pay her housework wages. Furthermore, historically, the Quraish women such as Khadija bint Khuwaylid and Sawdah bint Zam'ah (wives of Prophet Muhammad) are examples of women who were mothers and nurturers as well as active participants in the economy of their society. Khadija was a business women whose wealth and business property gave the Prophet ease of circumstances and freedom from the cares of daily life to accomplish his mission. Similarly, Sawdah derived her income from her leather work industry. None of the Prophet's wives inherited anything from him so they were cared for by the state or they derived their own income. The examples of Khadija and Sawdah are important because they shed light on women's active participation in the economy during the Prophet's era.
Islamic texts and the information of the early Islamic society and the rights given to women in the Quran are strong tools needed to fight the misogynist views now promoted to serve political and cultural stereotypes that are at odds with the intentions of the Quran.
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Woman's Role in Contemporary Society
Rhodes University
Muslim Students Association Islamic Week 1994
The role of woman, her position and status in society, and her nature have been issues of debate and discussion informed by religion, tradition and culture, misogyny, feminism and ? many times ? downright ignorance and bigotry.
I am a Muslim and Muslims seek guidance from Allah through his book, the Qur'an, and His messenger Mohammed (pbuh). Muslims believe that the word of Allah is supreme and takes precedence over all traditions cultures.
The Muslim Youth Movement in its struggle towards realising its goals of establishing a just order based on the Divine Will and promoting the values and principles of Islam felt that the area of gender needed redressing. We therefore established the Gender Desk.
As the head of the MYM Gender Desk and on the many campaigns we undertake - like getting women to the mosques, struggling for a just Muslim Family Law system or simply insisting that the woman's voice be heard - I am often asked by people who are not Muslim why I do what I do; why struggle for the rights of women - and particularly Muslim women. What happened in my past that drove me to this?
The answer is simple we respond to the injunction of the Qur'an to "enjoin what is right and forbid what is wrong", as we did when faced with the terrible injustices of apartheid and oppression on the basis of race and class.
In discussing the role of women in contemporary society I have divided my talk into three parts
- The perceptions of woman within contemporary Muslim societies.
- The status, position and role of woman in the Qur'an and in early Islam from where we derive our aspirations.
- Some of the challenges facing us in contemporary society - more specifically, in South Africa.
You might have heard at some time or the other that Islam teaches that women are "inferior" and "unequal" to men. Women are described as weak, inferior, inherently evil (it is the nature of woman to promote fitnah (mischief)), we have deficient intellectual capabilities and are spiritually lacking. Furthermore, these evaluations have been used to claim that women are unsuitable for performing certain tasks, or for functioning in some ways in society.
Thus women are barred from mosques and excluded from other Muslim institutions. The "intermingling of the sexes" is frowned upon on the basis that women create fitnah. The Muslim identity of a woman is restricted and limited to her dress code.
Specific functions and roles have been attributed to each sex; the function of woman is often confined to her reproductive ability. It is known that her primary function is to be mother and wife. And that she would be lacking in her Islamic duty if she in any way did not fulfil this role in accordance with how society defines it.
Since it is the responsibility of males to provide for females, women are liberated from all social, political and economic obligations. They are freed from all these burdens so they can enjoy the joys of housework and child-bearing and caring. And this is regarded as the special status that Islam has accorded woman, thus liberating her from oppression and suppression over 1400 years ago.
Some traditionalists are of the opinion that "according to strict Islamic injunctions, it is not obligatory for a woman to cook food for her husband or children or wash their clothes or even suckle the infants. A woman may refuse to do all these things without this being made ground for legal complaint against her. If she undertakes these duties it is out of sheer grace." Nevertheless, they stress that man and woman's roles are complementary and the most important role the women plays is in the family unit.
The same traditionalists also believe that her primary role is that of a mother and wife and that she needs not venture from the home and the darkest corners of her home are best for her. They also limit her freedom to exercise her will and choice.
It is ironical that all of them claim that Islam liberated women 1400 years ago. They claim that Islam gave women the right to equal education and civil and economic rights, but at the end of their analysis they come to the conclusion that a woman's place is in her husband's home and that she should be obedient to him and the male elite.
How on earth can she enjoy any liberty if she lacks knowledge, is confined to her home and has minimal control over her life.
We need to ask Are these the teachings of Islam or have they been concocted by some people in order to maintain control over a sector of society so that they alone can benefit optimally. It is our duty as Muslims to refresh people's memories and look to our Glorious Qur'an and our glorious past. Let us look at the status and position and role of women in Qur'an and early Islam.
The fundamental principle of Islam is Tauhid - the unity of the human race under the sovereignty of the One and Only, Universal Divine Allah. Islam's message of peace affirms the equality of all human beings, and rejects all discrimination on the basis of race, class and gender.
Yes, Allah is the Sovereign and we succumb to Him and put aside our preferences, prejudices, and traditions and culture which are secondary to Allah's injunctions.
The Qur'an declares the absolute moral and spiritual equality of men and women.
"For Muslim men and Muslim women, for believing men and believing women, for devout men and devout women, for true men and true women, for men and women who are patient and constant, for men and women who humble themselves, for men and women who give in charity, for men and women who fast (and deny themselves), for men and women who guard their chastity, and for men and women who engage much in Allah's praise, for them has Allah prepared forgiveness and great reward." (Sura 3335)
This passage makes a clear statement about the absolute equality of the human moral condition and identical spiritual and moral obligations placed on all individuals regardless of sex. Incidentally, this is one of the passages that addresses women directly. It is related that the women asked the Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) about why the Qur'an addressed only men when women too accepted God and His prophet. This question occasioned the revelation of the Qur'anic verses explicitly addressing women as well as men - a response that unequivocally shows Muhammad's (pbuh) and Allah's readiness to hear women. Thereafter the Qur'an explicitly addressed women a number of times.
I would like to read Sura 3195 to you
"And their Lord has accepted of them, and answered them 'Never will I suffer to be lost the work of any of you, male or female. You are members, one of another Those who have left their homes, or been driven out therefrom, or suffered harm in My Cause, or fought or been slain, verily, I will blot out from them their iniquities, and admit them into gardens with rivers flowing beneath. A reward from the presence of Allah, and from His presence is the best of rewards.'"
Allah clearly tells us here that we are members of one and the same human race, and therefore equal to one another.
We read in the Qur'an that taqwa (God-consciousness) is the only distinguishing factor between human beings.
"O humankind! We created you from a single (pair of a) male and a female, and made you into nations and tribes, that you may know each other (not that you may despise each other). Verily the most honoured of you in the sight of Allah is the most righteous (or God-conscious) of you. And Allah has full knowledge and is well acquainted (with all things)." (Sura 4913)
And taqwa ? "God consciousness" ? is definitely not determined by gender!
Another interesting fact about women in the Qur'an is that Allah relates instances when woman received wahy (revelation). Oftentime the assertion is made that there has never been a female prophet. To that I say that there is no conclusive evidence that there did not exist a woman prophet. And yes, women have received wahy. Allah sent a messenger who carried Allah's message to Mary (pbuh)
"She placed a screen (to screen herself) from them; then We sent her our angel, and he appeared before her as a man in all respects. She said 'I seek refuge in The Most Gracious from you (come not near) if you are conscious of Allah.' He said 'No, I am only a messenger from your Lord, (to announce) to you the gift of a holy son.'" (Sura 1917-19)
Allah also "spoke" to the mother of Musa
"And We revealed to Musa's mother, saying 'Give him suck, then when you fear for him, cast him into the river and do not fear nor grieve; surely We will bring him back to you and make him one of the messengers.'" (Sura 287).
And, in the Qur'an we read the story of Bilqis, the Queen of Sheba. Most Muslims hold leadership as improper for women. The Qur'an uses no terms to imply that leadership is inappropriate for a woman. On the contrary, the Qur'anic story of Bilqis celebrates both her political and religious practices
"But the Hoopoe tarried not far he (came up and) said 'I have compassed (territory) which you have not compassed, and I have come to you from Sheba with tidings true. I found (there) a woman ruling over them and provided with every requisite; and she has a magnificent throne..." (Sura 2722-23).
These verses and the verses following them tell us of a wise woman; a woman who recognises the goodness in the Propeht Sulaiman (Solomon) just from his letter to her; a woman who rules her people through consultation; a woman who readily recognises and accepts the Truth when Solomon presents it to her.
What is interesting is that Allah, The Most Wise, has not specified any particular role for all men or all women. The Qur'an does not propose or support a singular role or single definition of a set of roles, exclusively, for each gender across every culture.
This thus allows individuals the freedom to decide on their functions and roles best suited to their contexts. This must, of course, be done by maintaining fairness and equality through mutual consultation, mercy, consideration and compassion between those affected by the decision.
Women do have a special and exclusive function; and that is procreation. The Qur'an elevates this special function in Sura 4 Verse 1
"O humankind! Reverence your Guardian-Lord... reverence Allah, through whom you demand your mutual (rights), and (reverence) the wombs (that bore you)."
Another aspect that engenders the equal worth of individuals is that the Qur'an does not set value for particular deeds between men and women. Note verse 195 in Sura 3
"Never will I suffer to be lost the work of any of you, male or female. You are members, one of another."
In contemporary society this is not so. Much more value is attached to the work that men do. Domestic work is not less of a good deed than going out of the house to work. I believe that there is space in Islam to actually attach monetary value to domestic work done by wives. Indeed, some classical scholars have stated that women should be paid even for breastfeeding their own children! And if the criteria for valuing any function is monetary value then we should insist that all these functions should also have monetary values attached to them.
History
Let us now take a step back into our history and look at the various roles our sheroes played in the societies they lived in. I admit I will be focusing on and emphasising the active and assertive roles they played. We have been taught well about what is traditionally considered to be pious about our early Muslim sisters. But what about the other roles they played?
Women were actively involved in warfare.
Umm 'Umara was known for her effectiveness with weapons. The Prophet (pbuh) commented that she was better than many men. Umm 'Umara fought in many battles and she lost her hand in one of them.
Umm Hakim single handedly disposed of seven Byzantine soldiers in the battle of Marj al- Saffar.
In one expedition against a Persian seaport the women, led by Azdah bint al-Harith turned their veils into flags, marching in martial array to the battlefield. They were mistaken for fresh reinforcements, which struck fear into the hearts of the enemy, and this contributed - at a critical moment - to the victory of the Muslims.
Religion
Women of the first Muslim community attended the mosque, took part in religious services on feast days, and listened to Muhammad's (pbuh) discourses. They were not just passive listeners and docile followers, but actively participated in discussion and questioned, confronted and challenged.
This practice continued even in 'Umar's time - when he was caliph. It is reported that when 'Umar attempted to limit the dowry in a khutbah in the mosque, a woman challenged his ruling and 'Umar conceded that "the woman is correct and 'Umar is wrong".
Talking about the mighty 'Umar, strong-headed and strong-willed... He never forbade his own wife to attend the mosque because he knew that this was a betrayal of the Prophet's teaching. In fact, he tried some dubious means to discourage her. He once hid in an alley and frightened her to illustrate the danger of women being harassed by the hypocrites while they were going to mosque. He was not successful; his wife continued on her way to the mosque!
Woman participated in political activities.
When Makkah was recaptured by the Muslims (Fath Makkah) many woman came to give their allegiance to Islam. They refused to offer their allegiance to 'Umar and insisted that they wanted to give it to the Prophet (pbuh) himself. The Prophet conceded and this was at a public assembly of men and women.
Women like Asma bint Abu Bakr were active in the workforce. She shared the responsibility of supporting her family with her husband by working away from her home.
Women were given the responsibility of running the affairs of the State. A woman - Shifa bint 'abd Allah - was appointed controller of the market of Madinah by the Prophet. She was reappointed by 'Umar when he became caliph.
The Prophet left it in the hands of his wife Umm Salamah to advise the Muslims to forgo the haj and to rather sign the treaty of Hudaibiyya.
'Aisha, the prophet's wife, was a reporter of many of the Prophet's traditions. She also addressed the congregation at the mosque and led an army in battle.
In the private domain women also exercised their rights.
They enjoyed the freedom of stipulating their demands in their marriage contract. An illustrious example is the story of Sukayna, the great-grand-daughter of the Prophet, daughter of Husayn. In her marriage contract she stipulated that she would not obey her husband and denied her husbands had the right to practise polygamy. She brought a case against one of her husbands who had violated her rule of monogamy. The judge was obliged to hear her case.
Yet when we attempt to assert ourselves as Muslim women we are accused of being influenced by the West, and attempting to cause divisions and putting Muslims and Islam to disrepute.
The renowned author Fatima Mernissi, says in Women and Islam that such a person is "one who misunderstands his own cultural heritage. The vast and inspiring records of Muslim history so brilliantly completed for us by scholars such as Ibn Hisham, Ibn Hajar, Ibn Sa'ad and Tabari speak to the contrary.
"We Muslim women can walk into the modern world with pride, knowing that the quest for dignity, democracy, and human rights, for full participation in the political and social affairs of our country, stems from no imported Western values, but is a true part of Muslim tradition.
"Women fled aristocratic tribal Mecca by the thousands to enter Medina, the Prophet's city in the 7th century, because Islam promised equality and dignity for all, for men and women, masters and servants. Every woman who came to Medina when the Prophet was the political leader of the Muslims could gain access to full citizenship, the status of sahabi, companion of the Prophet. Muslims can take pride that in their language they have the feminine of that word, sahabiyat, women who enjoyed the right to enter into the councils of the Muslim umma, to speak freely to its Prophet-leader, to dispute with men, to fight for their happiness, and to be involved in the management of military and political affairs. The evidence is there in the works of religious? history, in the biographical details of sahabiyyat by the thousands who built Muslim society side by side with their male counterparts."
Source
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Salaam,
Many feel that in Islam, the man is in a higher position than the wife. It seems such a view can be easily gathered by a certain way of reading AQ. It would be good to have a counter argument against this.
I'd like a convincing argument against this. Something no traditionalist/male chauvinist would have an answer for.
Please post verses in favor/against this view.
Thanks in advance for all your help.
no way to refute that myth(if it is) with words. Work on action plan.
Ive seen families (in Pakistan) where women are breadwinners and they dominate their families, generally these are the men who are breadwinners. When did the condition of women changed in the west? after the industrial revolution when women started working and now that women are far more carrier oriented than ever before, so the myth of men in higher role (breadwinners) will die eventually. I think quran see both gender in the same role
432 Shakir
And do not covet that by which Allah has made some of you excel others; men shall have the benefit of what they earn and women shall have the benefit of what they earn; and ask Allah of His grace; surely Allah knows all things.Interesting Video ;D
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peace Leyna, all,
Whilst I agree with the conclusions/gist of the articles, the first one has some minor errors, or perhaps misleading points. I recommend studying the specific analysis at www.Quran434.com
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Many feel that in Islam, the man is in a higher position than the wife. It seems such a view can be easily gathered by a certain way of reading AQ
Not only in Islam, but in all the mentionable religons of the world, MEN are at higher position than the WOMEN, in SOME SPECIFIC SITUATIONS, to paint this as "many feel in Islam" is an intellectual crime, it should be "many feel that in almost all religons in the world,,"
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Not only in Islam, but in all the mentionable religons of the world, MEN are at higher position than the WOMEN, in SOME SPECIFIC SITUATIONS, to paint this as "many feel in Islam" is an intellectual crime, it should be "many feel that in almost all religons in the world,,"
This is because as Quran tells you that MEN get a hand in to change the meanings. It is well known this has happened in Judaism and Christianity, Christianity followed Judaism in that manner when the Church had a hand in deciding what was in or out of the Bible in 325AD. Man is the one that needs to feel superior to women and will change whatever God says on the subject out of fear of women. Man need to control woman, he was given no rights by God to do this, its his nature to want to control even to the point of ignoring God or twisting His words to suit.
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Ayisha
This is because as Quran tells you that MEN get a hand in to change the meanings. It is well known this has happened in Judaism and Christianity, Christianity followed Judaism in that manner when the Church had a hand in deciding what was in or out of the Bible in 325AD. Man is the one that needs to feel superior to women and will change whatever God says on the subject out of fear of women. Man need to control woman, he was given no rights by God to do this, its his nature to want to control even to the point of ignoring God or twisting His words to suit.
We should not follow conjecture and heresay.
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Not always Raaajah. you must keep in mind context and not simple battling it out with the sexes.
you might finds this interesting
"...bima (with what) faddalaAllahu (God preferred) baAAdahum (some of them) AAala (over/above/on) baAAdin* (others)..." *masculine
This likely refers to al rijal (the men) as indicated by keeping the same suffix reference later in the sentence, i.e. its logical and contextual flow.
See "baAAdahum AAala baAAdin" / "some of them above others" in 2253 and 1721, and also 653 "baAAdahum bi baAAdin" / "some of them with others", for a comparison.
However, there are three theoretically possible interpretations of this phrase
with what God preferred on some (men/women) over others (men/women)
OR
with what God preferred on some (men) over others (men)
OR
with what God preferred on some (men) over others (men/women)The keyword being "some". Thus, whichever way it is translated it proves the obvious, that not all men are preferred/bestowed equally, and/or not all men are preferred/bestowed more than women. Also, the term "preferred" is general, unless made specific in context, and in this case may refer to distribution of wealth, e.g. inheritance, as mentioned by similar phrasing in 432. Since spending of wealth is mentioned separately, the preference likely refers to the fact that men do not have the physical burden of pregnancy, birth and suckling, hence are in a more favourable position to work/provide, by default.
It should be noted that some traditional commentators interpret this phrasing to suggest men are preferred to women with respect to various things but this is completely disproven by the Arabic itself, as the masculine plural is used in the phrase. The masculine plural in Arabic either refers to an all male group or male+female group, NEVER all female group. To add to this point, the same phrasing is used for preferring some messengers to others and some prophets to others and yet The Quran repeatedly tells us not to make distinction among them. The best person according to The Quran is whoever is the most righteous/pious/God-conscious . It should also be kept in mind that each person will be judged according to how they conducted themselves with what they have been given .
As we can see, The Quran is not stating a fixed rule, i.e. that all men are the maintainers/supporters of women, they are only so if they fulfill the criteria and it is referring to the wider duty of care/responsibility men have as mentioned above.
And read this 987 (Asad) verily, those who have attained to faith, and do righteous deeds - it is they, they who are the best of all creatures.
This doesn't make men in a higher position this shows women could be above men or vice versa, it's personal. Men aren't automatically in a "higher position" the word says "fadhala" (434) it doesn't mean "higher position" afaik closest meaning would be preferred and note it's "some". men don't automatically attain this position.
This is because as Quran tells you that MEN get a hand in to change the meanings. It is well known this has happened in Judaism and Christianity, Christianity followed Judaism in that manner when the Church had a hand in deciding what was in or out of the Bible in 325AD. Man is the one that needs to feel superior to women and will change whatever God says on the subject out of fear of women. Man need to control woman, he was given no rights by God to do this, its his nature to want to control even to the point of ignoring God or twisting His words to suit.
Not necessarily, in some cases yes. Women also like power. all of us have our weaknesses and battle out shaytan our own ways.
Peace )
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Salaam,
Many feel that in Islam, the man is in a higher position than the wife. It seems such a view can be easily gathered by a certain way of reading AQ. It would be good to have a counter argument against this.
I'd like a convincing argument against this. Something no traditionalist/male chauvinist would have an answer for.
Please post verses in favor/against this view.
Thanks in advance for all your help.Peace be upon you,
with all due Respect.Men and women are equal in Islam.
Women can complain to a man.
Women can talk to a man and even approach them first.
Women can be leaders.2825 So one of the two women approached him, shyly, and said My father invites you to reward you for watering for us. So when he came to him, and told to him the stories, he said Do not fear, for you have been saved from the wicked people.
581 God has heard the woman who has argued with you regarding her husband, and she complained to God. And God hears the argument between you. God is Hearer, Seer.
6610 God puts forth as examples of those who have rejected, the wife of Noah and the wife of Lot. They were married to two of Our righteous servants, but they betrayed them and, consequently, they could not help them at all against God. And it was said Enter the Fire, both of you, with those who will enter it.
6611 And God puts forth as an example of those who believed the wife of Pharaoh. She said My Lord, build a home for me near You in the Paradise, and save me from Pharaoh and his works; and save me from the transgressing people.
6612 And Mary, daughter of Imran, who maintained the chastity of her private part, so We blew into it from Our Spirit, and she believed in the words of her Lord and His Books; and she was of those who were dutiful.
....
2722 But the hoopoe did not stay away long, then he said I have seen what you do not know, and I have come to you from Sheba with news which is certain.
2723 I found them ruled by a woman, and she was given all possessions, and she had a great throne.This is one of those topics that I love discussing with sunnis.
They try to portray the women in sunnism as protected but that's
not what I'm seeing on their faces ....God knows best.
Peace be upon you. -
Alen
Men and women are equal in Islam.
How? they can't be, in any religon of world, let alone Islam.
Alen
Women can complain to a man.
Women can talk to a man and even approach them first.
Women can be leaders.What do these statements have to do with the first one? These even don't support the first.
SarahY
987 (Asad) verily, those who have attained to faith, and do righteous deeds - it is they, they who are the best of all creatures.
So? how do it supports the theory of Feminists, or contradicts the fact that MEN are protectors by default.
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For SaraY
Main Entry pre?fer
Pronunciation \pri-fr
Function transitive verb
Inflected Form(s) pre?ferred; pre?fer?ring
Etymology Middle English preferren, from Anglo-French preferrer, from Latin praeferre to put before, prefer, from prae- + ferre to carry ? more at bear
Date 14th century
1 to promote or advance to a rank or position
2 to like better or best <prefers sports to reading> <prefers to watch TV>
3 to give (a creditor) priority
4 archaic to put or set forward or before someone recommendand who are preferred over whom? Some MEN over MEN, not Women over MEN,
So it is still some MEN within MEN but definately over WOMEN.
I remember a female forum member Elke, who after got convinced that Islam mentions MEn as Guardian of Women, said "I would rather leave this religon" which discriminates, not understanding that if you accept a;; the other commands of Allah than why this one? -
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Raajah why are "SOME" men preferred over some women?
Because Allah choses so..
SaraY
For example you're not better or preferred over a lady simply because you are a man, that's my point. If you were supporting/maintaining her then maybe i'd say you'd be "preferred" in that aspect.
analyse the verse again and you will find out, that they are MEN who are chosen to be supporters/maintainers,
"...bima (with what) faddalaAllahu (God preferred) baAAdahum (some of them) AAala (over/above/on) baAAdin* (others)..." *masculine
This likely refers to al rijal (the men) as indicated by keeping the same suffix reference later in the sentence, i.e. its logical and contextual flow.
