Help needed: Husband and wife, as equals?
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Not only in Islam, but in all the mentionable religons of the world, MEN are at higher position than the WOMEN, in SOME SPECIFIC SITUATIONS, to paint this as "many feel in Islam" is an intellectual crime, it should be "many feel that in almost all religons in the world,,"
This is because as Quran tells you that MEN get a hand in to change the meanings. It is well known this has happened in Judaism and Christianity, Christianity followed Judaism in that manner when the Church had a hand in deciding what was in or out of the Bible in 325AD. Man is the one that needs to feel superior to women and will change whatever God says on the subject out of fear of women. Man need to control woman, he was given no rights by God to do this, its his nature to want to control even to the point of ignoring God or twisting His words to suit.
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Ayisha
This is because as Quran tells you that MEN get a hand in to change the meanings. It is well known this has happened in Judaism and Christianity, Christianity followed Judaism in that manner when the Church had a hand in deciding what was in or out of the Bible in 325AD. Man is the one that needs to feel superior to women and will change whatever God says on the subject out of fear of women. Man need to control woman, he was given no rights by God to do this, its his nature to want to control even to the point of ignoring God or twisting His words to suit.
We should not follow conjecture and heresay.
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Not always Raaajah. you must keep in mind context and not simple battling it out with the sexes.
you might finds this interesting
"...bima (with what) faddalaAllahu (God preferred) baAAdahum (some of them) AAala (over/above/on) baAAdin* (others)..." *masculine
This likely refers to al rijal (the men) as indicated by keeping the same suffix reference later in the sentence, i.e. its logical and contextual flow.
See "baAAdahum AAala baAAdin" / "some of them above others" in 2253 and 1721, and also 653 "baAAdahum bi baAAdin" / "some of them with others", for a comparison.
However, there are three theoretically possible interpretations of this phrase
with what God preferred on some (men/women) over others (men/women)
OR
with what God preferred on some (men) over others (men)
OR
with what God preferred on some (men) over others (men/women)The keyword being "some". Thus, whichever way it is translated it proves the obvious, that not all men are preferred/bestowed equally, and/or not all men are preferred/bestowed more than women. Also, the term "preferred" is general, unless made specific in context, and in this case may refer to distribution of wealth, e.g. inheritance, as mentioned by similar phrasing in 432. Since spending of wealth is mentioned separately, the preference likely refers to the fact that men do not have the physical burden of pregnancy, birth and suckling, hence are in a more favourable position to work/provide, by default.
It should be noted that some traditional commentators interpret this phrasing to suggest men are preferred to women with respect to various things but this is completely disproven by the Arabic itself, as the masculine plural is used in the phrase. The masculine plural in Arabic either refers to an all male group or male+female group, NEVER all female group. To add to this point, the same phrasing is used for preferring some messengers to others and some prophets to others and yet The Quran repeatedly tells us not to make distinction among them. The best person according to The Quran is whoever is the most righteous/pious/God-conscious . It should also be kept in mind that each person will be judged according to how they conducted themselves with what they have been given .
As we can see, The Quran is not stating a fixed rule, i.e. that all men are the maintainers/supporters of women, they are only so if they fulfill the criteria and it is referring to the wider duty of care/responsibility men have as mentioned above.
And read this 987 (Asad) verily, those who have attained to faith, and do righteous deeds - it is they, they who are the best of all creatures.
This doesn't make men in a higher position this shows women could be above men or vice versa, it's personal. Men aren't automatically in a "higher position" the word says "fadhala" (434) it doesn't mean "higher position" afaik closest meaning would be preferred and note it's "some". men don't automatically attain this position.
This is because as Quran tells you that MEN get a hand in to change the meanings. It is well known this has happened in Judaism and Christianity, Christianity followed Judaism in that manner when the Church had a hand in deciding what was in or out of the Bible in 325AD. Man is the one that needs to feel superior to women and will change whatever God says on the subject out of fear of women. Man need to control woman, he was given no rights by God to do this, its his nature to want to control even to the point of ignoring God or twisting His words to suit.
Not necessarily, in some cases yes. Women also like power. all of us have our weaknesses and battle out shaytan our own ways.
Peace )
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Salaam,
Many feel that in Islam, the man is in a higher position than the wife. It seems such a view can be easily gathered by a certain way of reading AQ. It would be good to have a counter argument against this.
I'd like a convincing argument against this. Something no traditionalist/male chauvinist would have an answer for.
Please post verses in favor/against this view.
Thanks in advance for all your help.Peace be upon you,
with all due Respect.Men and women are equal in Islam.
Women can complain to a man.
Women can talk to a man and even approach them first.
Women can be leaders.2825 So one of the two women approached him, shyly, and said My father invites you to reward you for watering for us. So when he came to him, and told to him the stories, he said Do not fear, for you have been saved from the wicked people.
581 God has heard the woman who has argued with you regarding her husband, and she complained to God. And God hears the argument between you. God is Hearer, Seer.
6610 God puts forth as examples of those who have rejected, the wife of Noah and the wife of Lot. They were married to two of Our righteous servants, but they betrayed them and, consequently, they could not help them at all against God. And it was said Enter the Fire, both of you, with those who will enter it.
6611 And God puts forth as an example of those who believed the wife of Pharaoh. She said My Lord, build a home for me near You in the Paradise, and save me from Pharaoh and his works; and save me from the transgressing people.
6612 And Mary, daughter of Imran, who maintained the chastity of her private part, so We blew into it from Our Spirit, and she believed in the words of her Lord and His Books; and she was of those who were dutiful.
....
2722 But the hoopoe did not stay away long, then he said I have seen what you do not know, and I have come to you from Sheba with news which is certain.
2723 I found them ruled by a woman, and she was given all possessions, and she had a great throne.This is one of those topics that I love discussing with sunnis.
They try to portray the women in sunnism as protected but that's
not what I'm seeing on their faces ....God knows best.
Peace be upon you. -
Alen
Men and women are equal in Islam.
How? they can't be, in any religon of world, let alone Islam.
Alen
Women can complain to a man.
Women can talk to a man and even approach them first.
Women can be leaders.What do these statements have to do with the first one? These even don't support the first.
SarahY
987 (Asad) verily, those who have attained to faith, and do righteous deeds - it is they, they who are the best of all creatures.
So? how do it supports the theory of Feminists, or contradicts the fact that MEN are protectors by default.
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For SaraY
Main Entry pre?fer
Pronunciation \pri-fr
Function transitive verb
Inflected Form(s) pre?ferred; pre?fer?ring
Etymology Middle English preferren, from Anglo-French preferrer, from Latin praeferre to put before, prefer, from prae- + ferre to carry ? more at bear
Date 14th century
1 to promote or advance to a rank or position
2 to like better or best <prefers sports to reading> <prefers to watch TV>
3 to give (a creditor) priority
4 archaic to put or set forward or before someone recommendand who are preferred over whom? Some MEN over MEN, not Women over MEN,
So it is still some MEN within MEN but definately over WOMEN.
I remember a female forum member Elke, who after got convinced that Islam mentions MEn as Guardian of Women, said "I would rather leave this religon" which discriminates, not understanding that if you accept a;; the other commands of Allah than why this one? -
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Raajah why are "SOME" men preferred over some women?
Because Allah choses so..
SaraY
For example you're not better or preferred over a lady simply because you are a man, that's my point. If you were supporting/maintaining her then maybe i'd say you'd be "preferred" in that aspect.
analyse the verse again and you will find out, that they are MEN who are chosen to be supporters/maintainers,
"...bima (with what) faddalaAllahu (God preferred) baAAdahum (some of them) AAala (over/above/on) baAAdin* (others)..." *masculine
This likely refers to al rijal (the men) as indicated by keeping the same suffix reference later in the sentence, i.e. its logical and contextual flow.