adhan or azaan how to do it properly?
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hafeez Kazi
Salaam,
So you based your whole argument on Hadith, the same thing Rashad Khalifa did, while removing two Ayats, from Quran.
First read the Hadith make up your mind, and then say this is revelation unto you.
hafeez Kazi
It simply means to call/ called for the prayers.
Sure it does, but what will they say in call? it was decided later on, If we can use any call because Allah did not specifically mention any? as you said, then what is wrong with the present one, by witnessing Muhammad's (Peace is upon him) name in call we witness that we believe he is the messenger of Allah, and not Rashad Khalifa, or Mirza of Qadiyan, or those who announced prophet hood soon after the death of Muhammad peace is upon him.
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Salaam
Why are you trying to drift away from the subject? The subject here is, you are insisting that "we" is equal to "I"
siki
I don't think so, he was mentioning why is "We" used by Allah in Quran.
Well that is what i think, let us see what Mazhar has to say about this. -
hafeez Kazi
Salaam,
So you based your whole argument on Hadith, the same thing Rashad Khalifa did, while removing two Ayats, from Quran.
First read the Hadith make up your mind, and then say this is revelation unto you.
hafeez Kazi
Sure it does, but what will they say in call? it was decided later on, If we can use any call because Allah did not specifically mention any? as you said, then what is wrong with the present one, by witnessing Muhammad's (Peace is upon him) name in call we witness that we believe he is the messenger of Allah, and not Rashad Khalifa, or Mirza of Qadiyan, or those who announced prophet hood soon after the death of Muhammad peace is upon him.You are being called to prayer for GOD, not the messenger, why do you need to mention anything about any messenger? Allah already knows he is the messenger, this time is for GOD not the messenger.
When the Hypocrites come to thee, they say, "We bear witness that thou art indeed the Messenger of Allah." Yea, Allah knoweth that thou art indeed His Messenger, and Allah beareth witness that the Hypocrites are indeed liars.
you obviously didnt read any of what you are replying to as usual. )
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When the Hypocrites come to thee, they say, "We bear witness that thou art indeed the Messenger of Allah." Yea, Allah knoweth that thou art indeed His Messenger, and Allah beareth witness that the Hypocrites are indeed liars.
you obviously didnt read any of what you are replying to as usual.
Read the Ayat carefully and see what is being told. And it exactly fits on that what you are constantly advocating. You first try yourself to reflect for a while on the Ayat, and if you wish to get the veil from eyes and heart removed, I will try to give you the so apparent meanings of it.
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who are the ones in "We" ? let me re emphsize, "when we is used in speech, it is not allah who is speeking directly, it is other entities who are communicating on HIS behalf"
can you show some other place in quran where first person, "I" is used other than this aya 20-12 when Allah spoke to Moses directly.
siki
Peace siki,
If we apply your definition of ?we? in the following verses then we have someone other than Allah forgiving our sins. Then the obvious question is why do we need Allah.
252 - Still, we pardoned you thereafter that you may be appreciative.
4153 - The people of the scripture challenge you to bring down to them a book from the sky! They have asked Moses for more than that, saying, "Show us GOD, physically." Consequently, the lightning struck them, as a consequence of their audacity. Additionally, they worshiped the calf, after all the miracles they had seen. Yet, we pardoned all this. We supported Moses with profound miracles.
966 - Do not apologize. You have disbelieved after having believed. If we pardon some of you, we will punish others among you, as a consequence of their wickedness.
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Sure it does, but what will they say in call? it was decided later on, If we can use any call because Allah did not specifically mention any? as you said, then what is wrong with the present one, by witnessing Muhammad's (Peace is upon him) name in call we witness that we believe he is the messenger of Allah, and not Rashad Khalifa, or Mirza of Qadiyan, or those who announced prophet hood soon after the death of Muhammad peace is upon him. Raajah
Exactly Raaajah, a man's distinction is felt and becomes vividly apparent by what he does and says proclaiming to others. When we say that we bear witness to the fact that Muhammad is the Messenger of Allah we alienate ourselves from all the followers of cheats and imposters and indicate our distinctness that we believe in him and all those, named as well as un-named ones, who were before him.
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I never said that "we" is always "one plus many entities", (even a 2nd grade student knows that) what i am saying is we is always spoken on behalf of "atleat one more" entity.
Why are you trying to drift away from the subject? The subject here is, you are insisting that "we" is equal to "I"
siki
Sorry, I could not peep into your heart that when you use the plural word "entities" you do not mean, in the heart, many but only another one.
Whenever anybody uses we instead of i , he is including other entities to be speeking on behalf. siki
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Sorry, I could not peep into your heart that when you use the plural word "entities" you do not mean, in the heart, many but only another one.
Again , harping over a non issue, weather it is entity or entities or what is in my heart, i am asking you a simple question,
"In your opinion, is we equivalent to I for Allah's use in Quran"?
siki
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Peace siki,
If we apply your definition of ?we? in the following verses then we have someone other than Allah forgiving our sins. Then the obvious question is why do we need Allah.
252 - Still, we pardoned you thereafter that you may be appreciative.
4153 - The people of the scripture challenge you to bring down to them a book from the sky! They have asked Moses for more than that, saying, "Show us GOD, physically." Consequently, the lightning struck them, as a consequence of their audacity. Additionally, they worshiped the calf, after all the miracles they had seen. Yet, we pardoned all this. We supported Moses with profound miracles.
966 - Do not apologize. You have disbelieved after having believed. If we pardon some of you, we will punish others among you, as a consequence of their wickedness.
guest, salam
Sorry , i am in no mood to spoon feed you, you got the brains, reasonable knowledge of Allah's system and quran, so use them for carrying out an empirical visualisation exercise. !
peace
siki -
Guest to Siki
Peace siki,
If we apply your definition of ?we? in the following verses then we have someone other than Allah forgiving our sins. Then the obvious question is why do we need Allah.siki to Guest
Sorry , i am in no mood to spoon feed you, you got the brains, reasonable knowledge of Allah's system and quran, so use them for carrying out an empirical visualisation exercise.
I think it needed a better reply than this one.